Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

I tend to think that the portion remaining Austrian (and Bohemian) would have ended up as part of Germany and Hungary (with Galicia?), and the southern Slav state (Croatia? Illyria?) becoming independent monarchies in the German orbit. Or, he Union might hold. Either possibility is interesting.
Wasn´t in this thread that map showing possible split of Austria between FF and Wilhelm? With Austria going to Germany and reborn Poland under second FFs son?
 
TIL that France had proposals to partition Algeria in 1961:
 

Yep, Alain Peyrefitte was the main proponent of it and wrote a book about it where he outlined 6 various "hypothesis"




Here are the first two (if you have trouble reading it, the main difference between the two being in the ownership of the Annaba/Bone enclave and the south of the Oran enclave)



This looks like the third (despite what the title says)



Here's a personal interpretation of the fourth hypothesis, similar to the third except with the tiaret departement as a "solid" corridor to the sahara instead of a thin one around the oil pipelines



'Autonomous territory of Tlemcen" , "French province of the regions of Alger and Oran", "Autonomous republic of the region of constantine"

I'm not sure but this could be the Fifth hypothesis, whose main difference with the 6th being that the Tlemcen is independant (in name at least) and the Saida region is part of the French sahara instead of the French Algeria.

From reading a bit about it it seems he disliked the first to proposal as for him having a territorial integrity was necessary, and only saw those as a temporary compromise while the pieds noirs could be evacuated, and he generally prefered the third and fourth hypothesis.
 
Yep, Alain Peyrefitte was the main proponent of it and wrote a book about it where he outlined 6 various "hypothesis"




Here are the first two (if you have trouble reading it, the main difference between the two being in the ownership of the Annaba/Bone enclave and the south of the Oran enclave)



This looks like the third (despite what the title says)



Here's a personal interpretation of the fourth hypothesis, similar to the third except with the tiaret departement as a "solid" corridor to the sahara instead of a thin one around the oil pipelines



'Autonomous territory of Tlemcen" , "French province of the regions of Alger and Oran", "Autonomous republic of the region of constantine"

I'm not sure but this could be the Fifth hypothesis, whose main difference with the 6th being that the Tlemcen is independant (in name at least) and the Saida region is part of the French sahara instead of the French Algeria.

From reading a bit about it it seems he disliked the first to proposal as for him having a territorial integrity was necessary, and only saw those as a temporary compromise while the pieds noirs could be evacuated, and he generally prefered the third and fourth hypothesis.
The red parts of 01, 05, 07 and 09 look like a solid base for a pied noir state. No need for Tiaret
 
The red parts of 01, 05, 07 and 09 look like a solid base for a pied noir state. No need for Tiaret
Peyreffite advised for it because there were “only” 270,000 additional Algerians in Tiaretc, which would translate into less than 200k additional after some uh, forced population movement he was planning, apparently quoting from his book the tiaret region was a “good” (read few FLN activities) département.
 
No map, but I came across some of the early goals Japan had in the Second Sino-Japanese War, or at least those they communicated through peace terms in January of 1938.
  1. Repudiation of Commuism. This will include either the denunciation or the complete sterilization of the Sino-Russian non-aggression pact.
  2. Economic cooperation. This would include the establishment of joint aviation services and concessions for certain railroads in North China.
  3. Acknowledgment of China's financial liability for the cost of the war. As China is unable to pay a war indemnity, this means the concession of security in the form of rights and interests.
  4. Recognition of Manchukuo. This may take the form of commercial and communications treaties.
  5. The appointment of Japanese advisers.
These were as mentioned by the New York Times here. As also touched on in that article however, the situation in North China is not mentioned at all despite recent motions by the Japanese military present in establishing what would become the "Peiping Government". This was later touched on in another article later that month, as stated here.

"....While China could have had several years of peace to prepare for stiffer resistance at the price of only Hopeh and Chahar last July, to obtain peace now she must admit virtual Japanese suzerainty over Hopeh, Chahar, Suiyuan, Shansi, Shantung, Kiangsu and parts of Honan, Anhwei and Chekiang Provinces....."​

I'd assume then that much if not all this territory would have ultimately end up assigned to the Peiping Government under a draft peace treaty.​
 
While China could have had several years of peace to prepare for stiffer resistance
Even without mentioned provinces and with Japanese influence, China was still big country with even bigger manpower, would be ever Japanese able to prevent this? What was/ould be their policy concering warlords?
 
Even without mentioned provinces and with Japanese influence, China was still big country with even bigger manpower, would be ever Japanese able to prevent this? What was/ould be their policy concering warlords?
That was a quote directly from the source, not my own opinion; the Chinese military up to that point was largely a paper tiger that acted as if it were being used against the rain, dissolving as it went. It would not be for another couple of weeks before the Kuomintang managed to put up real, effective resistance to the Japanese and winning notable military victories.

As for what the ultimate plan was vis a vis China, I really don't know. There were advocates for just about every method, though the winning one historically seems to have been a unified China made up of autonomous regions; Mengjiang for example was to be reintegrated into a new Chinese government.
 
A fun little map depicting the Confederation of the Rhine and Danube which was proposed during the Paris Peace Conference on May 23, 1919 by Dr. Georg Hime (not sure if I spelled his name right), a Bavarian nationalist. He proposed this in response from what he saw as the socialistic north and this confederation would be a conservative Catholic bulwark. According to him, which means heavily biased, the German states with separatist tendencies in 1919 were Oldenburg, Hanover to the Weser, Wuttenberg, Baden, Hesse-Nassu, Bremen, Westphalia, the Rhine province, and Bavaria. I left Posen, Kiel, Schleswig-Holstein, the Sudetenland, and the internal borders untouched which would be unlikely if this confederation were ever implemented. Tyrol is kept in German control as the Italians were rewarded Fiume instead

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Shout out to the When Diplomacy Fails podcast for uncovering this proposal.
 
Europe_a_nation.png

British Union of Fascists leader Oswald Mosely promoted a concept called Europe a Nation, which was pretty different from typical ideas of fascism from the time. Rather than pure British Nationalism, Mosely proposed that all of Europe join together as a single united entity that could compete with the United States and the Soviet Union. This was, of course, an authoritarian, corporatist, elitist, and racist union. Under this union, all of Africa would become a massive resource pool and Apartheid-style segregation would be applied everywhere. Europe's Jews were also to be expelled, although Mosely was in favor of sending them to Palestine and letting them do whatever they wanted from there.
 
Mhm, "arab" North Africa, especially Egypt, in, while Arabia and Fertile Crescent left out... wonder how that would work...
 

CalBear

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Well those are left for the Jews to do their miniature copy of such a state, of course
I guess it is a lot more difficult than I realize to post without coming up with something racist/ethnic to take a swipe at.

Clear the previous four actions, all variants on the same general thing have been ineffective.

FIFTH racial/ethnic troll in under 13 months.

We divorce you.

To Coventry with you.
 
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The Azores have had a history of pro-U.S. breakaway factions throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, due to feeling unfairly treated by Portugal. This was fueled by a large number of immigrants to the U.S., especially in and around New England. Economic ties also formed due to the presence of American whaling companies who operated in the islands and employed many of the residents. The pro-U.S. movement reached its height in 1917 when the American navy established a base there. Many of the Azorians, feeling that America was doing more to defend them from German raids than Portugal was, called for a complete transition to American control. However, many major politicians and naval officers in America, including then-Assistant Secretary to the Navy Franklin Roosevelt, dismissed the idea.

The movement lost steam after World War I, but it still existed even during and after World War II. During the Cold War, there were suggestions that, should the crumbling Portuguese Empire fall to a communist takeover, the U.S. should indeed take control of the Azores.
 
View attachment 465035
The Azores have had a history of pro-U.S. breakaway factions throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, due to feeling unfairly treated by Portugal. This was fueled by a large number of immigrants to the U.S., especially in and around New England. Economic ties also formed due to the presence of American whaling companies who operated in the islands and employed many of the residents. The pro-U.S. movement reached its height in 1917 when the American navy established a base there. Many of the Azorians, feeling that America was doing more to defend them from German raids than Portugal was, called for a complete transition to American control. However, many major politicians and naval officers in America, including then-Assistant Secretary to the Navy Franklin Roosevelt, dismissed the idea.

The movement lost steam after World War I, but it still existed even during and after World War II. During the Cold War, there were suggestions that, should the crumbling Portuguese Empire fall to a communist takeover, the U.S. should indeed take control of the Azores.

I doubt it would be admitted as a state until the 21st century. The Azoreans will also not particularly like the thousands of soldiers permanently stationed there, Iceland-style.

Also if the US takes control of it after a communist takeover of Mainland portugal they'll likely put a republican government in exile there instead of annexing it or occupying it long term.
 
View attachment 464471
British Union of Fascists leader Oswald Mosely promoted a concept called Europe a Nation, which was pretty different from typical ideas of fascism from the time. Rather than pure British Nationalism, Mosely proposed that all of Europe join together as a single united entity that could compete with the United States and the Soviet Union. This was, of course, an authoritarian, corporatist, elitist, and racist union. Under this union, all of Africa would become a massive resource pool and Apartheid-style segregation would be applied everywhere. Europe's Jews were also to be expelled, although Mosely was in favor of sending them to Palestine and letting them do whatever they wanted from there.

Huh, didn't know about his views of AFrica.
 
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