Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Beedok, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. Albidoom Fuzzy Thing

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  2. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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  3. LSCatilina Vassican Labosiotos Vergagnatos

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    Wait, wait...Wait. You mean...Belgians might not be pokemon? Heh, guess I have to free the ones I captured then.
     
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  4. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    Can you capture them in a Pokéball? If so, they are a Pokémon. Otherwise, they are not.
     
  5. LSCatilina Vassican Labosiotos Vergagnatos

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    It would explain why I had to cut parts and mash them a bit.
     
  6. Beedok I exist.

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    Just like Louis XV... should have held on to them.
     
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  7. Thon Taddeo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    The State of East Indonesia (Indonesian: Negara Indonesia Timur, old spelling: Negara Indonesia Timoer) was a post-World War II federal state (negara bagian) formed in eastern Netherlands East Indies by the Netherlands. It was established in 1946, became part of the United States of Indonesia in 1949, and was dissolved in 1950 with the end of the USI. It comprised all the islands to the east of Borneo (Celebes, and the Moluccas, with their offshore islands) and of Java (Bali and the Lesser Sunda Islands).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_East_Indonesia

    What sort of POD would allow this state to survive?
     
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  8. Skallagrim Not the one from YouTube. Different other fellow.

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    This is always interesting, though let me tell you: it's a touchy subject in both Indonesia and here in the Netherlands. Decolonisation of the Dutch East Indies was a total mess, and "we" (meaning the Dutch government) promised a lot of Indonesians that they'd be part of a loose federal state. The post-colonial Indonesian government had, let us say, other ideas. We had promised, in particular, to help the (majority-Christian) South Moluccans to get some sort of independent status... and that fell through completely. The South Moluccas declared unilateral idependence, were crushed, a bunch went into exile in the Netherlands, we offered them help in securing a state, we totally let them down, and eventually a bunch of those exiles hijacked a train (like, a stone's throw from my house, incidentally). It ended up being a mess, with multiple deaths, and the grief over it all still lingers. Any discussion on the subject gets political fast.

    The thing relevant to this particular discussion is: there is no way the State of East Indonesia is going to be a thing. Literally no way. Remember that in OTL, there was a bloody civil war between Muslims and Christians on the Moluccan islands. So here's how it'll go. If this state somehow lasts for a bit under Dutch protection, the muslim-majority islands are all going to want to join Indonesia proper, and nobody can stop them. You'll end up with a rump state consisting of all the relevant islands marked in yellow (plus Flores, in pink) on this map. All the green ones join Indonesia proper post-haste. So you basically get a federal, Christian-majority South-East Indonesian state consisting of Flores, Soemba, Timor and the South Moluccas. Presumably, West Papoea doesn't get gobbled up by Indonesia, either, but I see them opting for union with the rest of their island, rather than joining this federal state.

    Another possible outcome is more support for the South Moluccan independence attempt, resulting in all other islands being gobbled up by Indonesia, but the South Moluccas remaining independent from Indonesia. (In that scenario, too, I can see West Papoea staying free from Indonesia.)

    Either scenario would be considered a great improvement on OTL by basically everyone but Indonesia. It would certainly have avoided a lot of grief. The Moluccan conflict between Muslims and Christians is likely prevented, the whole Dutch debacle of the Moluccan exiles never exists, and presumably both the Christian 'South-East Indonesians" and the West Papoeans enjoy a very good relation with the Netherlands. (Indonesia, far less so, but there were going to be hard feelings there anyway...)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  9. Entrerriano Well-Known Member

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    I gave the French Map of Europe after WW1 a try in Worlda
    French Europe.png
    Peak Austrian borders there.
    The lighter blue regions are either Neutral Zones (Rhine and Constantinople) or Joint Allied Zones (Palestine)
     
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  10. Albidoom Fuzzy Thing

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    proposal.jpg

    So far I haven't found the German publication from which this map claims to be from.
     
  11. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    Assuming, of course, that it ever was in any German publication, and it isn't just French propaganda.
     
  12. Albidoom Fuzzy Thing

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    Well, that was also my impression given some of the inconsistencies of that border 'suggestion':

    Landlocked enclave in Transylvania. They already have pressganged Dutch, Czechs, Slowaks, Slovenes, etc. into that confederation blob (I assume the Hungarians are willing participants) and that border already suggests some Romanians in there as well, so adding two or three millions more to make it contiguous would make sense.

    In South Tyrol that border follows the Bozen-Trentino language divide but then annexes the Friuli area which even more paradoxically then seems to omit the city of Trieste which would actually be the point of expanding up to a mediterran coastal strip. Admittedly it could be due to the map not being very precise (that port could sit right on that border)

    And as final icing on the cake it just dawned on me that for some reason that Germanic confederation has ceded Metz back to France (OTL German Lorraine extended well along the southern Luxembourg border, yet that confederation suggestion border visibly doesn't run there)
     
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  13. Admiral A. Kolchak Supreme Leader

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    Actually, the borders in the Balkans just make no sense at all. I'm sure that in 1904 they knew Magyar wasn't a Germanic language. Also they arbitrarily chopped off a Hungarian-majority part of Carp-Ru but swallowed the unmistakably Slavic Czechs and Slovaks into the Reich.

    And that Polish border is just l-a-z-y. I repeat, l-a-z-y.
     
  14. Luminous Headwing Consulting

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    "Document extracted from a German Book published in 1904"

    So, French Propaganda of German Propaganda. Yo dawg...
     
  15. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

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    We’re the French high? Or just really desperate?
     
  16. Luminous Headwing Consulting

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    I just heard they liked propaganda, so they put propaganda in the propaganda so they could propagandize while they propagandize.
     
  17. LSCatilina Vassican Labosiotos Vergagnatos

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    They probably took it from one of the many insane volkish publications and went wild with details : not unlike Germans looked the most inane proposal as depicted above and make it pass as totally genuine French projects (which seems to work even today, given how many people seems to be convinced that there was an actual project of annexing Rhineland).
     
  18. LSCatilina Vassican Labosiotos Vergagnatos

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    There was the idea, as much present in Britain in the early XXth, that Germans would outnumber many nationalities trough more dynamic demographics and wars with their neighbours, overshadowing ethnically/linguistically large parts of Europe
     
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  19. UrbanNight Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Map of various border proposals for Texas during the discussions for the Compromise of 1850. (by JWB, from Wikipedia)
     
  20. Ivoshafen Just A Man From Gondor - Recovering from SATS

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    I love the Benton border.
     
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