Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Beedok, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. Beedok I exist.

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    A map would be a good bump.
     
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  2. FancyHat Well-Known Member

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    You want some maps? I've got some maps...

    Turkish State (Misak-ı Millî)
    Republic of Turkey - Misak-i milli.png

    The Ottoman Parliament, in its final term, made a set of decisions that essentially passed the Turkish National Movement's idea of the Turkish Homeland into law. This conception of Turkey includes more of Western Thrace, Adjara (which in OTL became part of Georgia as an autonomous republic), and the Aleppo and Mosul Vilayets. The darker areas were areas that, while considered to be part of the core Turkish territories, had an Arab majority and would be allowed referenda on their future status.

    Treaty of Sèvres
    Treaty of Sevres.png
    This treaty was signed but never ratified by the Ottoman Parliament, and was ultimately rejected after the Turkish War of Independence in 1919-23. The territorial changes are as follows:
    • The coasts of the Bosporus, Dardanelles, and the Sea of Marmara are placed under international occupation.
    • Greece annexes Western Thrace, but not Constantinople itself. They also occupy Smyrna and its environs, but it's unclear whether or not they were supposed to annex it.
    • Italy occupies much of southwestern Anatolia. Italy wanted to annex the territory outright, forming a colony named Lydia (although the classical Lydia was only a part of the occupation zone, but reasons like that haven't stopped empires before).
    • France occupies central-eastern Anatolia north to Sivas and the new Armenian border.
    • The UK occupies a tiny bit of the Kurdish Highlands.
    • Northern Arabia is divided up mostly following the Sykes-Picot Agreement, with the League of Nations mandate for Syria going to France and the mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia going to the UK. The UK also has a "zone of influence" between their mandates which was almost certainly not intended to be a permanent border with a future Arab state.
    • Armenia annexes a vast swathe of eastern Anatolia, including the important city of Trebizond.
    • The treaty had a provision for a Kurdish state east of the Euphrates and between the Arab LoN Mandates and Armenia, which was also allowed to have territory in the Mosul vilayet. The treaty's actually pretty vague as far as Mosul goes, probably because the British really wanted it but didn't want to violate Wilson's Fourteen Points or something.
    • Hejaz is granted independence.
     
  3. CtrlAltHistory bleeding heart

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    That... is a strange, strange treaty. I didn't really appreciate its strangeness until it was all spelled out. Why on Earth did anyone involved think Turkey would accept this? And that is one. Big. Armenia. Gotta say, though, the divisions in the rest of the Middle East are strangely pleasing to the eye, in a sleek, minimalist, ergonomic, horribly colonialist sense. The way that curve in Arabia matches with the straight line in Mesopotamia... yummy. Also, the independent Hejaz makes me squee. But yeah, talk about a rough deal for Turkey.

    The Misak-i Milli proposal, on the other hand, seems a bit off on what it considers "Turkish." There are some lands included that aren't even in that darker shade, that even then were decidedly not Turkish. Both of these, I guess, just go to show how unrealistic and hair-brained some map propositions were in history. And still are today, looking at the Middle East.

    Wonderful work, man, just wonderful work.
     
  4. rvbomally Russian Hacker

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    I don't think anyone was under the illusion that Turkey would accept it. They just thought Turkey could do nothing about it.
     
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  5. CtrlAltHistory bleeding heart

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    Well, guess they were wrong there, too. Of course, they should have stopped underestimating the Turks after Gallipoli....
     
  6. Luminous Headwing Consulting

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    And, remember, that's roughly half of the territory that the Armenians claimed (and one chunk of that was supposed to be set aside for the Pontic Republic, but they felt it was too small to survive.
     
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  7. FancyHat Well-Known Member

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    There is something strangely satisfying about straight borders, at least until the sectarian conflicts start. Though ironically enough that Arabian border you mention was actually strictly provisional; it was intended to be redrawn once the UK worked out the tribal boundaries there, and the British government at least claimed they could have handed over that entire area to some united Arab state.

    I don't know exactly what the demographic situation was, but I have a feeling that at that time Aleppo may have had a Turkish majority and the Zor Sanjak was probably included more for territorial cohesiveness than a reflection of ethnic boundaries. As for the Mosul vilayet, there's no way in hell the Turks were going to willingly give it up, Arabs and Kurds be damned.

    Thanks very much!

    The absurdly huge Armenia you're thinking of was just a proposal at the Paris Peace Conference, while the territory shown in the maps above is the actual territorial claims of the Democratic Republic of Armenia. Though, to be fair, I bet there were some Armenian politicians who didn't give up on the Paris Peace Conference idea, at least until they were killed by the Soviets.
     
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  8. Noddy Well-Known Member

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    I feel like this would be as good a time as any to post this infamous map.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. CtrlAltHistory bleeding heart

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    So, the Arab Shia State has PLENTY of Sunnis, Kurdistan is yuuuuuuge, Baluchistan(?) is independent for some reason. The West Bank (one of the main reasons you would draw a map like this) is still "status undefined," and the Saudis are relegated to a rump state whose acronym in English is S.H.I.T. Among other things, of course.
     
  10. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

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    Also of course the acronyms for the Arab Shia State and the Saudi Homelands Independent Territories would be ASS and SHIT respectively, so... I don't think this map ever was a serious suggestion.

    Oh, but Balochi separatism is an actual thing

    EDIT: Oh, I see you also spotted at leas the SHIT part XD
     
  11. Mitro I am Mitro

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    ...

    ...

    My god...why did I never notice that before? Damn and I just did a video featuring that map and I didn't mention it.
     
  12. MountainPuncher A guy who destroys mountains for a living

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    So, what’s the story behind this map anyways?
     
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  13. Baconheimer Berserker of Chaos

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    I might have a shot at making a worlda version of that map. No promises though.
     
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  14. FancyHat Well-Known Member

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    I feel like, for the benefit of anyone who doesn't already know, pointing out that this map is almost certainly a joke.
     
  15. Luminous Headwing Consulting

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    I mean, all this Balkanization and yet Sindh stays united with Punjab? Obviously. :p
     
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  16. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

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    [​IMG]

    An excellent map concerning the Adriatic, showcasing Venetian territory in Illyria, the 1915 Treaty of London, the Interwar border, and the Italian occupation during WW2. Love the comparisons, very useful.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
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  17. Retiarius Officially That Guy

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  18. Retiarius Officially That Guy

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    What I would like to see, though, is a map of the King-Crane Commission.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. TwiliAlchemist JAY INSLEE 2020!

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    WorldA version
    [​IMG]
     
  20. The-Artist-64 Life is a Funeral Banned

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    Does anyone have any Soviet/Red Chinese revanchist plans? Surely a few have come up over the years, especially against each other during the Sino-Soviet Split.
     
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