Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

If only Russia could do that too...
To be fair, the land they don't currently have doesn't have the most Russians anyways, outside of some frontier areas or places where there were massive population 'exchanges' during Soviet times. I think of it like Prussia during the Napoleonic Wars. People might say Napoleon was unfair to them as stolen half their land, when outside of a couple small areas on the Rhine, all the stuff they lost was things they seized from Poland or swallowed up from neighboring German states.
 
To be fair, the land they don't currently have doesn't have the most Russians anyways, outside of some frontier areas or places where there were massive population 'exchanges' during Soviet times. I think of it like Prussia during the Napoleonic Wars. People might say Napoleon was unfair to them as stolen half their land, when outside of a couple small areas on the Rhine, all the stuff they lost was things they seized from Poland or swallowed up from neighboring German states.

Not exactly.



Even if you're just taking Russians into account rather than the full East Slavic group (the equivalent of looking at New Englanders rather than Americans as a whole):




 
Not exactly.



Even if you're just taking Russians into account rather than the full East Slavic group (the equivalent of looking at New Englanders rather than Americans as a whole):




The Russian annexation of Crimea and subsequent invasion of Donetsk and Luhansk has strongly reinforced the Ukrainian national, ethnic, and linguistic identity as one distinct and separate from Russian, I would hardly say it's accurate to call Ukraine the New England to Russia's USA.
 
Also, Ukrainian is only partially mutually intelligible with Russian, Ukraine is its own country, and has long portions of its history as being separate from Russia. None of this is true of New England and the US.
 

Vuu

Banned
The Russian annexation of Crimea and subsequent invasion of Donetsk and Luhansk has strongly reinforced the Ukrainian national, ethnic, and linguistic identity as one distinct and separate from Russian, I would hardly say it's accurate to call Ukraine the New England to Russia's USA.

You do have to take into account how ephemeral identities can be, tho
 
You do have to take into account how ephemeral identities can be, tho
I don't see why that's necessarily true in this case. Yes, identities are fluid, but they're certainly not formless ether. Identities are self-reinforcing, particularly against one another and particularly in this situation. Every Ukrainian I've met is pretty serious and unyielding about the fact that they're Ukrainian and explicitly not Russian. Since Crimea, they've been willing to get in a fight about it.
 
Ottoman_Claims.png

The Ottoman Empire's ambitions for a Central Powers victory.
* Annexing Kuwait, the Dodecanese Islands, and Kars
* Making client states out of Egypt, Sudan, and many lands in southern Arabia and the Caucasus
* Extending their influence as far east as Iran and Afghanistan
 
Why would there be an Armenia? Didn't the Ottomans try to kill them all during WW1?
I'm not entirely sure. The Ottomans were terrified of Armenian nationalism, especially because of their large population in eastern Anatolia, where it was thought they might ally themselves with the christian Russians against the empire. I'm guessing the idea with the client state was, more or less, to purge them from Ottoman territory proper, push whoever was left somewhere else, and economically exploit them.

Or it might not have been Armenian at all, but instead populated by Azeris. Either way is horrifying.
 
I'm not entirely sure. The Ottomans were terrified of Armenian nationalism, especially because of their large population in eastern Anatolia, where it was thought they might ally themselves with the christian Russians against the empire. I'm guessing the idea with the client state was, more or less, to purge them from Ottoman territory proper, push whoever was left somewhere else, and economically exploit them.

Or it might not have been Armenian at all, but instead populated by Azeris. Either way is horrifying.

I fear that you are correct in that the Ottomans saw the Armenians as the Nazis saw the Poles: obstacles to be annihilated in the aftermath of victory.
 
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