Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Beedok, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. MatthewFirth Well-Known Member

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    No actually, I think I've worked it all out.
     
  2. UrbanNight Well-Known Member

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    Cross-posting from a thread I started asking about the borders of a federal Queensland.
    Mark Drummond's PhD Thesis also includes an appendix with numerous other proposed divisions of Australian colonies/states.
     
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  3. Luminous Headwing Consulting

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    Do you have a link to the thesis?
     
  4. UrbanNight Well-Known Member

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    It can be found using Google and I didn't put the link as I can't remember site policy on posting links to obscure websites, but as you asked: http://members.webone.com.au/~markld/PhD/thesis.html
    The part I refer to is Appendix 2A: Australian New State Proposals.
     
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  5. Luminous Headwing Consulting

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    Thanks! These look good for consideration of alternate states to be created.

    I'm pretty sure the policy is only about not linking to websites that are conspiratorial in nature; this seems to be a good resource (if anything else, the maps are worth the link).
     
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  6. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    Greater South Africa.png
    Jan Smuts' 1895 proposal for Greater South Africa, with its border set at the Zambezi river.
     
  7. Chris S Member

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    Didn't know his aim for Mozambique went back to 1895. I know in 1915 during WWI, he had hoped that the Portuguese would be willing to swamp Mozambique (or perhaps just Mozambique south of the Zambezi) for southern Tanganyika. He also proposed renaming German South-West Africa as "Bothaland"

    Did he really want to partition the former southern Portuguese East Africa between Transvaal and southern Rhodesia? And merge "Bothaland" with Bechuanaland?
     
  8. Stateless Well-Known Watermelon

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    The Ottoman Empire's claims for the First World War should be easy enough:

    upload_2018-3-7_16-20-17.png

    It's just unclear what the 'small correction of Turkey's eastern border' should constitute. Presumably the return of Kars and Batum at least?
     
  9. Imperator Frank Tellurian Worldbuilder

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    Probably means a border with Azerbaijan.
     
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  10. Stateless Well-Known Watermelon

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    An attempt has been made:

    upload_2018-3-8_10-21-24.png

    Somewhat interpretive, both in the west (how many of the Aegean Islands would they really take?) and the east. Have gone for most Aegean Islands but none of the Italian Dodecanese (neutral in 1914) or Crete. For the Russia/Ottoman border in the east I have added Kars and Batum Oblasts, Erivan Governorate and a small strip of Elizavetpol that roughly corresponds to the old Nakhichevan Khanate-ish. Quite modest claims really.
     
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  11. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

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    I'd interpret the "Aegean Islands" part as the North Aegean Islands (Samothrace, Limnos, Lesbos, Chios, Samos, Icaria) which had only been annexed by Greece in 1913.

    [​IMG]

    Potentially also the Dodecanese, depending on what happens with Italy. The Cyclades and Sporades had been Greek since their independence.
     
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  12. Stateless Well-Known Watermelon

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    That makes much more sense. I will update accordingly.

    I think if I were gaming Ottoman demands in a Central Powers victory scenario I would probably agree that the Dodecanese would be demanded from Italy (+ Libya), and the end of the British protectorate of Cyprus at the minimum - but this is just Said Halim's proposals made to the German ambassador Hans Freiherr von Wangenheim before the Ottoman Empire entered the war.
     
  13. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    Bulgarian_acquisitions,_treaty_IX_1915.jpg
    Since we're on the topic of World War I, these are the lands that were promised to Bulgaria in addition to those that were lost during the Balkan wars.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  14. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    That's a lot of land. I suspect Bulgaria would have rather a big problem with its Serbian population in that case. No idea if the Central Powers would have actually given them the land if they had won.

    Mind you, the Entente promised a lot of land to Italy to get them to join the war - they didn't get all of that in the peace treaty.

    Posting the map from Wikipedia here, just in case it hasn't been posted already.

    [​IMG]

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Trattato_di_Londra.svg
     
  15. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    World War I wasn't exactly an era of good decisions.
     
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  16. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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  17. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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  18. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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  19. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    Well, there are a large amount of German-descended people living in the US...
     
  20. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Especially in the Midwest... or should I say DER MITTELWEST?!?!?
     
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