Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Beedok, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. Crying Your ideology is shit, SHIIIIIIIIT

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    They feared the Wrath of the Khan
     
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  2. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

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    84917E4E-9EAA-4A0A-869C-1FEB03163849.jpeg
     
  3. X_Eaglefrost_X Well-Known Member

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    They have a population density lower than Australia, so I'm gonna guess no (I may be wrong though)
     
  4. Ariosto Populist Republican

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    Apparently a Soviet military and later nuclear presence wasn't established until 1966, after the Sino-Soviet Break necessitated one.
     
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  5. Chris S Member

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    39th Army was apparently stationed in Mongolia from the time of the war and for many years after.
     
  6. Thon Taddeo Well-Known Member

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    It looks like they also ignored North Vietnam.
     
  7. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    upload_2019-4-18_9-59-55.png
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    Here we have a personal favorite. One of Kaiser Wilhelm II's plans for invading the United States.

    This particular plan, Operation Plan II, called for 60 warships, 40-60 cargo and troopships carrying 68,000 tons of coal, 100,000 soldiers and a huge amount of army artillery, all of which would cross the Atlantic in 25 days, destroy the American navy (somehow) and launch a two-pronged attack on the country.

    The first prong would land at Cape Cod, where they would march to Boston and siege the city with troops and artillery. The hope was that this would suppress resistance and allow the German army to occupy the city. The second, much more important attack on New York City first required a landing at Sandy Hook. German warships would then destroy fortifications protecting the upper bay. Once the way was clear, Manhattan would then be shelled.

    Even Kaiser Wilhelm didn't think that he could conquer America as a whole. His hope was that this attack would cause so much damage so quickly and put so many Americans in harms way that it would encourage America to sue for peace on Germany's terms. In return for withdrawal, Germany would be allowed to absorb Cuba and Puerto Rico, and have unrestricted use of the panama canal. Potentially, Guam and the Philippines would also be on the table.

    And they almost went ahead with this plan. Only Alfred von Schlieffen thought it was too crazy and refused to sign off on it.
     
  8. Admiral A. Kolchak Supreme Leader

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    I'm pretty sure Schlieffen was dead by 1917, so clearly the actual situation is a bit different.
     
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  9. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    Oh, this wasn't part of World War I. This was put together in 1899.
     
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  10. GustavusAdolphus1 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think he wasn't able to sign off on it? :p

    I'm interested in what would've happened if Germany went through with this invasion; it most likely would've failed obviously, but could it have led to an even harsher Versailles?
    Oh. Now that really raises the question of what would happen if this plan went through.
     
  11. Luminous Headwing Consulting

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    Every thread I've seen just amounts to "world's largest self-sustaining prison camp". Those two ports were some of the most heavily defended.
     
  12. Vuu Resident Serb expert Banned

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    Well the Americans did manage to pull some weird naval stuff (Normandy landings, with the entire Atlantic wall system), so if American naval invasion of Europe is possible, then it must be true the other way around (especially when the US doesn't have a chain of forts on the coast)
     
  13. Admiral A. Kolchak Supreme Leader

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    Landing isn't the problem, the RN is.
     
  14. Luminous Headwing Consulting

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    To be fair, the Allies did have the luxury of basing their fleets and landing forces a few dozen miles from the landing zone, and had complete naval supremacy in the theater of landing, and managed to achieve complete operational surprise. That, and they attacked a section of the wall weaker than the rest, and in the event of failure, they could pull back to their base and recover most of their losses.

    Instead of having complete naval supremacy, the Germans will be facing a peer opponent at near parity. Instead of being a few dozen miles away, they are invading from a few thousand miles away. Instead of a relatively weak section of defenses, the Germans planned to invade the most heavily fortified ports in the country. And, in the event of something going wrong, there is no option to retreat as there are no friendly ports for thousands of miles.
     
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  15. Aqua817 Eternally Exhausted

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    A bigger issue would be the fact that with an army and an invasion that size, Germany is way better off just invading the British Home Islands. Invading the United States is difficult because the United States is huge and most of the resources inside of America could be gotten somewhere else by someone else for a significantly lessened cost. I could see France, England, Germany, or even a resurgent Spain or another power launching a war to both humiliate America and try to break a hole in the Monroe Doctrine, and a part of that may include key naval landings in certain areas of the continental US, but a Red Dawn style affair is rather out-of-the-question.

    Though, I will say the fact that in it's entire existence, the United States has only faced a real threat of sustained invasion twice (1812 and the ACW) and both times the invaders at least arguably lost. Thus, there really aren't any good ways to plan or compare this with IRL things.
     
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  16. Drex Alférez de caballería

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    Here's what a Spanish admiral purposed the government to do during the Spanish-American War.
    upload_2019-4-20_7-47-52.png
     
  17. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    What's funny about this is how much it kinda mirrors the original Operation Plan I, which was put together from 1897-98. The original plan was to attack the shipbuilding sites in Norfolk, Newport News, and Portsmouth, where America's biggest shipyards were. Once America's naval capabilities were significantly damaged, the German navy would blockade the American east coast until they relented.

    You effectively had three different nations who wanted control over the Caribbean. Kaiser Wilhelm saw the crumbling Spanish control over the region as the perfect way to expand Germany's empire. If this managed to be put into play before the outbreak of the Spanish-American war, could this have lead to a three-way war? Would two powers gang up on the other?
     
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  18. Drex Alférez de caballería

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    The Spanish plan was a bit different, as the Spanish never pretended to blockade America, but to use their superior speed and maneuver to feint the American fleet and distract them while another fleet would invade several points of the coast. The landing in New England was rather a raid to destroy the industry there and then trench themselves in Cape Cod in order to pinpoint US forces there, then the Army of Cuba would invade the Mississipi while the American fleet was in New England and attempt to cut the US in two, forcing a surrender. The Spanish never thought of a blockade but rather a straight up invasion.
     
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  19. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    Never get involved in a land war in Asia or North America, guys. Even the Germans just planned on occupying Boston, and that was it.
     
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  20. Aqua817 Eternally Exhausted

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    On one hand, this is very much an "all or nothing" war that unless the US surrendered literally right then and there would probably be a retaliatory invasion of Spanish Europe and there would almost definitely be a Round II. However, the ramifications of such a thing would be fascinating.

    EDIT: There's also a difference between an invasion from Cuba with diversionary attacks on some ports in the Northeast and a full invasion from Europe.
     
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