Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Beedok, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. Clandango Disestablishmentarianist

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    Better yet is the Russie in the Baltic. I also adore how the map have parts of the Archduchy of Austria go to South Germany, and just barely had Vienna in Hungary. I also like how Buda and Pest are not yet joined together in this world. I have thing this may have been from a time (though I know it isn't) when the Ottomans had not yet been driven out and people were making a future map, and just used Hungarian as a phrase for people in a massive area of land to be resettled. If it had been the Kingdom of Hungary I would have guessed it was a Kingdom of Sardinia sort of situation. Wait a minute. I just realized from the font size Vienna is the capital of Hungary... oh, happy days.

    Also, can anyone read the full title given to Great Britain? Some of the words get a bit fuzzy for me, form how tightly packed they are. And anyone have any idea what the EN before dates are supposed to be? The time the republics were established?
     
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  2. LSCatilina Vassican Labosiotos Vergagnatos

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    1885 : A great disaster will strike England
    En means In.
     
  3. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    upload_2018-10-24_22-41-18.png
    The Nazis didn't invent the Madagascar Plan. It was a much older idea
     
  4. Chris S Member

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    What year was that plan?
     
  5. Clandango Disestablishmentarianist

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    According to the information I found, neither did the Poles or French. The map says the regions were proposed by the Governor of Madagascar, who looking it up briefly didn't bother to reply to messages about it and waited for Paris to do any organizing, and my googling his name and Madagascar brought me to a link suggesting it was some Jewish group in Poland. Also, the group the Poles sent to investigate the area believed they couldn't even get eight thousand families over their to be settled safely and efficiently, so they dropped the whole plan. This wasn't something like the Nazis trying to destroy all house s in an area to freeze everyone to death, or the various ethnic cleansing in the Anglophonic world that came as settlers kept moving in and turned the lands of locals into farms. This should be considered more like the proposal by the British to settle Assyrians in Guyana so as to prevent the rest of them from being slaughtered by Turks, Kurds, and Arabs as was happening during WWI. They investigated the area, did some tests, and said 'nah, that ain't gonna work'. Though in a rather more official manner, given they were colonial and academic figures working for the British government during WWI.


    https://books.google.no/books?id=VFY1wapYa7EC&pg=PR10&lpg=PR10&dq=governor+cayla+madagaskar&source=bl&ots=YIkzVC7c80&sig=Ox8Ko1-ZNfwB-1c6WqGMKUV7rAU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC7r_m0aHeAhXGDiwKHSBdAqkQ6AEwAXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=governor cayla madagaskar&f=false

    There is info on the Wikipedia page of the Madagascar Plan, giving a timeline on the proposals.
     
  6. xmoose Well-Known Member

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    Karel Kramář (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Kramář) was one of leading czech politicians in early 20th century and one of most ardent russophiles. At the outbreak of world war he came with idea of Slavic union, union of Slav countries with Russian tsar (and Bohemian king) as its head. His concept wasn´t unsimilar to other panslavist plans throughout 19th and early 20th century, interesting however were his ideas about Germany. That should loose, besides Prussia, Alsace and maybe even some other bits of Rhineland to France, Holstein-Schleswig and then split in two: "protestant" still dominated by weakened Prussia and catholic, led by Habsburgs, which should including south german states, remnants of Austria, catholic Rhineland and Hanover kingdom.
    Kramář.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
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  7. Albidoom Fuzzy Thing

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    Another idea how to bring peace to Europe

    proposal1920a.jpg
     
  8. Thanosaekk Well-Known Member

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    Please tell me this is just very, very loose federations, because I can't imagine how uniting the Balkans together would bring peace.
     
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  9. Clandango Disestablishmentarianist

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    And I do love how Poland is stuffed with basically all of the former Commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania, meaning the Austrians have to give them all of Galicia-Lodomeria, despite how Jews and Rusyns, Ruthenians, and Ukrainians (there were differences between the groups, though some slid into the other) outnumbered them. It also seems that half of Bukovina was given to Poland, leaving the Austrian half of their Dual Monarchy just the tiniest of nubs over there. You would think they would just give it to Romania, maybe with Bessarabia as well. After all, they have a map in the corner showing language/ethnic groups anyways, so they were hardly ignorant of it. Can anyone read a date on the map sometime, to give an idea of when it was printed? There is a 1920 on there, but given the question mark and how WWI ended long before then, I imagine it would be at least five or six years in the future. Really though, this all points to how lazy people could be back in those days when it came to maps. Just find a regular map, then do outlines over it. No need to change colors. Just slice off bits of Turkey
     
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  10. Crying Your ideology is shit, SHIIIIIIIIT

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    Still got an independent Switzerland, though. Damn, that place really is eternal.
     
  11. Peppe Well-Known Member

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    Someone: Switzerland, what your thoughts in becoming part of a union of Central-European nations?

    Switzerland: Not today Satan, not today!
     
  12. Admiral A. Kolchak Supreme Leader

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    I really can’t vouch for any map that assumes Britain and Italy should be in the same supranational Union.

    Also how is the NE group supposed to even work? It’s just OTL Russia, but unwieldier. “Poland” could really be its own group.

    Also the Caucasus deserves its own supranational Union.

    Actually, this whole union idea/thing is ASB (especially for the early 20th century) and wouldn’t help anything even if it were implemented.
     
  13. jerseyguy Well-Known Member

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    This is like the early twentieth century equivalent of bad AH maps where space-filling empires take up most of Africa, Asia and Latin America, or the POD is in 1300 but the Russia-Kazakh border is still the same. The Polish Lithuania Commonwealth's eastern border is this map's equivalent of "that damned Kazakh border" trope. Poland's interwar eastern border closely resembled the second partition, but even that territory would only be stable with Ukrainian and Belarusian autonomy similar to OTL Scotland or Catalonia.
     
  14. Admiral A. Kolchak Supreme Leader

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    Also in the future the world is covered by space filling empires whose names all start with “The”.
     
  15. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    Or names that end in "-ia"
     
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  16. ninel Ariana Grande Defence Force

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    1945 proposals for border between Poland and RSFSR:

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Vuu Resident Serb expert Banned

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    This one would actually work though
     
  18. Thon Taddeo Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure those are proposals? The text says:

    A: Border in February 1945
    B: Border in August 1945
    V: Border from 1956 to 1998
    G: Border with Lithuania
     
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  19. Chris S Member

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    Mar 12, 2005
    Are those proposals or the actual borders in February 1945, August 1945 and then in 1956? Because it sounds more like these were the actual provisional borders from February 1945 to August 1945 and then from August 1945 until January 1, 1956.

    Edit: Ninja'd

    But even so, if these were the actual borders then it would be very good for the historical QBAMs and larger sized BAMs.
     
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  20. ninel Ariana Grande Defence Force

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    AFAIK, only proposals, and the first one supposedly dates to the Teheran Conference in 1943, that is 2 years earlier than the caption suggests. The second one was a rough draft, and only third one was actually established.
     
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