Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Beedok, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    American Redoubt.png
    Keeping with American divisions, here we have the American Redoubt proposal from James Wesley Rawles. The area would become a "safe haven" for conservative, libertarian Christians and Jews. Rather than one based on racial, economic, or social divisions, Rawles is a survivalist who wants to create a land where these people would be safe once the United States collapses.

    It has a very Deus Ex feel to it.
     
  2. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    Why do the crazies and survivalists always pick there? :rolleyes::winkytongue:
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
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  3. merkmuds Singularitarian/Posthumanist/Transhumanist

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    Rural.
     
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  4. Wendell Wendell

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    Lost in what might have been
    Open space. Limited government. Goodish land.
     
  5. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    Fertile Crescent Plan.PNG
    Here we have the Fertile Crescent Plan, proposed by Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri as-Said during World War 2, where all of this territory would be united as a single Arab state. The biggest roadblock in achieving this was the Syrian Nationalist Party, who refused any kind of unification. The closest the plan came to fruition was during the late 1949 regime of Syrian Colonel Sami al-Hinnawi, who had installed a People's Party government that entered negotiations to achieve unity, but this opportunity was aborted by Colonel Adib Shishakli launching a coup d'état. After the overthrow of the Iraqi monarchy in July 1958, the FCP effectively lost any chance at legitimacy, although some proponents of it still exist.
     
  6. ETGalaxy Long live the King of America!

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    Is there a reason Kuwait wasn't included? It looks kind of odd there by itself.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  7. Chris S Member

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    I would guess it's all of the mandates from the former Ottoman lands that are included and not other territories.
     
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  8. Clandango Disestablishmentarianist

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    Dang it, when I saw the green I was hoping for an Irish Free State or something. Then again I suppose Tammany Hall or the Nativists might try to run the Indian bandwagon.
     
  9. Clandango Disestablishmentarianist

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    I adore how Prussia (I assume that is what Prusy means, though I am unsure on the second word) has a subdivisions, but Lithuania does not. And how all but one of the boxes at the bottom talks about Poland being Polish.
     
  10. MovingtargeT Well-Known Member

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    I know that the modern boundaries were (mostly) arbitrarily drawn by the British and French, but Kuwait strikes me as more of a Gulf state interested in oil wealth and commerce as opposed to one that would push for a pan-Arab republic like this. To make things interesting later on, Iran, the Saudis, and the Fertile Crescent would need a proxy to squabble over.
     
  11. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    Not sure, honestly. They just weren't incorporated into the plan for whatever reason.
     
  12. Wendell Wendell

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    That would have made for an interesting country, with or without Lebanon and Israel/Palestine.
     
  13. Thon Taddeo Well-Known Member

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    A map of the proposed State of Sequoyah. In 1905, facing the end of tribal governments, leaders of the Five Civilized Tribes petitioned the Congress to be admitted as a state, which would remain under the control of the Five Tribes. However, the state would be dominated by the Democratic Party, and the proposal had little support in a Republican-dominated Congress. In the end, what would have been Sequoyah was merged with Oklahoma territory, which was admitted as a state in 1907.
     
  14. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

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    So I stumbled across two very interesting proposals involving the same two nations (kinda).

    In 1941 the Yugoslav and Greek governments-in-exile came to an agreement, brokered by the British, to form a confederation after WW2 was over. They also included provisions for Albania, Bulgaria, and Romania to join, but considering that the British eventually abandoned the Yugoslavian monarchists in favor of Tito's partisans, the agreement fell through.

    In 1992 the Serbian government proposed a confederation between Serbia (at that point still including Montenegro), Macedonia, and Greece. The Macedonians were rather into it but the Greeks were sceptical and instead wanted to just get all of the Balkans into the EU as full member states.

    So I decided to make two nice worlda patches for both of these scenarios. Please note that for the 1941 proposal I only included the original phase of it and not any expansions due to the shifting post-war borders. The territories added to Greece and Yugoslavia after the war are marked in a lighter shade of orange.

    Greece Serbia 1941 1992.png
     
  15. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    All of the Zions all at once.png
    Zion here, Zion there, Zion everywhere!
    Here we have multiple ideas for Jewish homelands, states, refuges, or communities throughout the years. The borders I've left a little vague because most of these never got past the proposal stage. From left to right, we have:
    * Sitka, Alaska- Proposed in 1940 by the Slattery Report as both a refuge for European Jews and an incentive to increase Alaska's economic development.
    * Ararat City- Proposed in 1820 by Mordecai Manuel Noah to be established at Grand Island, New York.
    * British Guiana- There was a 1939 plan to resettle a modest number of Jewish refugees here, but it was shelved thanks to World War II. In March 1940, the suggestion was made to create a Jewish homeland here instead. The British Government decided that "the problem is at present too problematical to admit of the adoption of a definite policy and must be left for the decision of some future Government in years to come".
    * Thuringia- Proposed in 2007 by Israeli art student Ronen Eidelman as a second Jewish state with Weimar as its capital.
    * West Prussia- In 1941, Lord Moyne suggested that David Ben-Gurion advocated for a Jewish emigration to the region. Ben-Gurion responded that "the only way to get Jews to go [to East Prussia] would be with machine guns."
    * Albania- In 1935, British Zionist journalist Leo Elton traveled to Albania, apparently at his own initiative, to see if it would be possible to establish a Jewish national entity there.
    * Crimea- From before its annexation by the Russian Empire up to the Soviet Empire, Crimea was long considered to be the most viable place to become a homeland for Jews, even the place where the Jewish Autonomous Oblast could be established. However, this dream was brought down when the Nazis came steamrolling in.
    * British Uganda- Actually Kenya, but the idea was brought to the World Zionist Congress in 1903, where 5,000 square miles (13,000 square kilometers) of the Mau Plateau were offered as a potential refuge. Many were on board with the idea, but others weren't so keen on it. They sent delegates to scout the area and found the natives and local wildlife weren't too friendly, so they declined the offer in 1905.
    * Madagascar Plan- Made famous by the Nazi plan to deport Europe's Jewish population there and transform it into the world's largest concentration camp. However, there are some accounts that the British and French also considered settling their Jewish populations there at some point.
    * Al-Hasa- A Russian Jewish doctor residing in France named Dr. M.L. Rothstein proposed an Jewish state here, in what is modern day Saudi Arabia, in September 1917.
    * Jewish Autonomous Oblast- Probably the most well-known example on the list, where Stalin "offered" the Jews a homeland, which just so happened to be faaar away from the important cities of Russia. While some wanted the area to become a Jewish state following the collapse of the USSR, the majority immigrated to Israel and Europe.
    * Kimberley- Proposed by the Freeland League, led by Isaac Nachman Steinberg, to resettle Jewish refugees from Europe in the Kimberley region in Australia starting in the late 30's.
    * Point Davey- With the support of the Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove, Critchley Parker Junior proposed a Jewish settlement in this town in south west Tasmania. Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.
     
  16. rvbomally Russian Hacker

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    Shia Labeouf.

    Interesting. I was familiar with the Anglo-French union idea, but not this. Were there any other wacky wartime union ideas?
     
  17. Crying Your ideology is shit, SHIIIIIIIIT

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    Some of these might've been posted already, but I can't be bothered to go back and check right now.

    So, first off;
    [​IMG]
    This is, as the name claims, a map of what Australia would look like if all Statehood proposals were accepted. I know that the claim is false, since off the top of my head I can see that its missing Cooksland (a name commonly used for what a seperate 'middle Queensland' state might be called) and New Caledonia (some have tossed around the idea of it federating with Australia if they ever seperated from France). It does a decent job of showing off a number of different proposals for State/Territory-hood however, so its still worth showing despite the fact that it failed its premise.

    Next;
    [​IMG]
    A non-serious proposal from this paywalled news article that supposedly re-organizes the Australian states according to the cultural and economic boundaries currently existing. Oceania exists because all those 'big east coast cities' supposedly have more in common with each other than they do the country that is Heartlandia, for example. Don't take it too seriously - or look at it too long, a blood vessel might burst in your eye due to those horrid borders.

    Next;
    [​IMG]
    No map for this one.
    This is the proposal of "the man who's creating a United States of Australia" as this 2003 article phrases it. Essentially, Pape wanted to try and divide Australia up along more regional lines in order to have people from the rural areas better represented (which is a large concern for the National Party, which used to be called the Australian Country Party).

    Next;
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    New States by 2010 was, essentially, a one-man campaign driven by a man named Ian Johnston. I don't really know what ended up happening to him or his campaign, other than the fact that it obviously failed, but the website went down at some point after the 20th of August 2006 and can now only be viewed via the Wayback Machine. A similar, but less ambitious project that was being supported on their website can also only be seen via Wayback Machine.
    I reccomend checking out the websites if you want to know all the arguments and ideas put forth, but the map generally shows what they wanted;
    • to create a River-Eden (more commonly known as Riverina) State
    • to create a New England State
    • to create a North Queensland/Capricornia State
    • to edit the borders of the Northern Territory to give it enough population to become a State
    • to edit the borders of South Australia for... reasons. Broken Hill is already basically an SA city anyway, so I guess he wanted to alter the borders to make that official?
    Next;
    [​IMG]
    An 1857 proposal for the "Seven United Provinces of Eastern Australia" featuring Queensland broken up into Cooks Land, Leicharts Land (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Leichhardt) and Flinders Land (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Flinders). Its a bit of an odd one, really, but it shows how long the idea of breaking up Queensland has been around.

    Last one;
    I had a non-Australian proposal on here, about a reformation of China's states to better represent ethnic distribution or something but I have discovered that someone already covered this earlier in the thread, so nevermind.

    Most of these were found by digging through here (the References section on the List of proposed states of Australia page on Wikipedia). Make of that what you will.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  18. ETGalaxy Long live the King of America!

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    Intermarium is one that I've found pretty interesting, there's some stuff on it here.
     
  19. ETGalaxy Long live the King of America!

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    Also, here's something that I think people in this thread would enjoy.
     
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  20. Kaiser_Jaeger Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing there.