Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Beedok, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. Clandango Disestablishmentarianist

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    Just check out mybullypulpit.com and you will get a good idea on how serious the first one was.
     
  2. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

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    I've seen the second one occasionally referred to as being a sketch of the "Biden-Cheney Plan". I do know that Joe Biden was in favor of partitioning Iraq but idk if he ever formulated a specific proposal.

    I actually bothered to look it up and I can't decide if it's a satire of what "conservative talk radio" sounds like or an example of it.

    But considering I only stumbled across these via Google, I found them to be quite shareable, even if they likely aren't genuine proposals.
     
  3. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    Imperial Federation.png
    First Proposed in 1884, the Imperial Federation was an idea to prolong the life of the British Empire by transforming it from a colonial empire into a full-fledged global country. With a similar system to the United States, where all people within these lands would be granted citizenship and could vote for local parliaments, the hope was that the peoples within their colonies and dominions would want to remain part of the British Empire and the British could keep exploiting all their natural resources.

    (This would potentially be their land circa 1914)
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  4. Clandango Disestablishmentarianist

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    I suspect it might be genuine on their part. Only so much satire of that sort you can do without an audience before you vomit up your lungs,
     
  5. Chris S Member

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    I've never been clear on if the proposals for an imperial federation included the protectorates and protected states becoming a part of it (since technically they were not colonies).
     
  6. Augenis Latvia isn't real Banned

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    Found on Reddit. 1939 Polish poster advocating for a Polish-Lithuanian union

    [​IMG]
     
  7. MovingtargeT Well-Known Member

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    The Shia state needs a much better name. Also, the border of Babylon doesn't make sense considering some historical Babylonian cities are now located in the Shia state.
     
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  8. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    I think the (Arab) Republic of Baghdad and the (Arab) Republic of Basra would work.

    Also, I'm not sure that either version of Kurdistan would even have a Kurdish plurality, never mind a majority.
     
  9. Skallagrim Not the one from YouTube. Different other fellow.

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    Regarding Iraq: I know that Biden is often said to have proposed partition, but what he actually proposed was a loose federation. As far as I'm aware, his plan never got to the stage where any maps were drawn up. Coming up with a basically decent map, however, is not that hard. Although there has been population displacement due to the Islamic State and its parade of horrors, this map rather accurately lays out the situation in Iraq:

    [​IMG]


    There are evidently a few tricky areas. Several places have mixed populations, and there are places where the Kurdish and the Sunni Arab regions are not contiguous. Nevertheless, anyone can see how the lines should basically be drawn in case of partition or tripartite federalisation. Namely, it would be something like what I've hastily drawn up below. We'll call that the Skallagrim Plan for Iraq, which definitely belongs here, because it's not going to happen. ;)

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. ETGalaxy Long live the King of America!

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    Now this is interesting. Was this an actual proposal with a bit of a following or just one person's idea?
     
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  11. Veles Well-Known Member

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    I posted this in the Map Thread but I guess it fits here better:

    [​IMG]
    This is MK. I of my Madagascar Plan map. These were sites (red) proposed by the Franco-Polish investigations into the island. The major infrastructure has been included to the best of my knowledge.
     
  12. Augenis Latvia isn't real Banned

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    Seems more like some person's idea, by the time this poster was put up, the idea of restoring the Commonwealth was long gone.

    Here's something also from Reddit, but more interesting:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    I want to shake whoever created this map by the hand. :cool:
     
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  14. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

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    Northwest Imperative.png

    I stumbled across something called the Northwest Territorial Imperative, a white nationalist plot/proposal for a "Aryan homeland" in the American northwest. The lighter areas are the primary areas listed, the darker ones are mentioned as being of secondary importance. Needless to say, it's absolutely bonkers and fringe.
     
  15. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

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    Ahh! Let's hope that NEVER happens.
     
  16. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    Indeed. That land obviously belongs to Canada, who will overwhelm the bigots with politeness.
     
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  17. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Targeting two of the most liberal states in the Union strikes me as wrong-headed
     
  18. oshron Emperor of Rplegacy

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    it reminds me a bit of Loveless Land from the Wild Wild West movie
    [​IMG]
    except even more implausible ;)
     
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  19. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Because it was easy:

    "Wild Wild West: Or, The Partition of the United States following the Treaty of Spider Canyon, Circa 1870"

    [​IMG]

    Going in the order in which Loveless described them:

    -The thirteen original colonies (which includes Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee whilst excluding the entirety of Alabama and Mississippi) return to England. I've divided into 3 polities in line with the traditional view among the colonists of how they broke down: the Dominion of New England, the Dominion of Southern America, and the (ironically named) Midatlantic Confederacy.

    -Bizarrely, it is strongly implied that Manhattan Island has gone to the "Indians", on the grounds that "they" traded it for a handful of beads. Presumably, since it is being given to the Indians in general and not one specific group, Manhattan is going to turn into some sort of a Pan-Native American city-state. So points for originality. The British are probably going to have to raze the island to evict all of the current "natives", and I am going to guess a significant number of Native Americans are going to be reluctant to leave their traditional lifestyles to live in a big city. Possibly this is a cynical effort on Loveless's part: in addition to being a reward for his henchman Hudson, it could serve essentially as a concentration camp, since his plot of territory has the greatest population of Indians of all of the successor states.

    -Florida is returned to Spain, in addition to Alabama and Mississippi, presumably as extensions of West Florida. With that in mind, I indeed restored Spain's West Florida and East Florida territorial division, abolishing Mississippi, and Alabama and leaving a new northern territory, which I am tempted to call "North Florida", but would more likely be called "Alabama" or "Mississippi".

    -Mexico (for some reason referred to as "Old Mexico" here) gets back a significant amount of its territory lost in the Texan Revolution and the Mexican-American war restored, save that which Loveless seizes for himself. I decided to re-combine Arizona and New Mexico back into one big New Mexico, since A) that's closer to how the Mexican's historically administered it, and B) it has too small a population otherwise.

    -The Louisiana Purchase has reverted to France... this despite the fact that over half of the territory included in it was not, in fact, a part of the Louisiana purchase, and the overwhelming majority of the Louisiana Purchase is now a part of Loveless Land. Regardless, this is in a lot of ways the most insane of all of the land-grants, and these are some fucking gonzo land-grants. It's very difficult to actually access most of it from the coast, and I don't see the British letting the French pass through willy nilly. It's a vast, well-developed territory of an utterly alien culture. I don't think the French will even entertain the idea of bringing most of "Louisiana" into the metropole. So I've instead opted to seperate it into "Orleans", which the government is actively attempting to Francify, and "Upper Louisiania", which is more akin to a protectorate of midwestern states then anything else. There's a possibility they lose it all in the Franco-Prussian War.

    -Finally, Loveless Land, or possibly the "Loveless Alliance". A white supremacist (though possibly with "noble savage" views towards the natives, which are curiously common among white supremacists: see "The Education of Little Tree") state run by former slavers. I gave him Alaska, as Russia is not mentioned, and I doubt they would want it back having willingly sold it. In addition, it seems to fit in with the theme of him seizing mostly desolate frontier lands. In addition, I had the Anglo-American border disputes in the Panhandle resolved in Loveless's favor, as I doubt the British would care much about losing some desolate mountains and boreal forests after gaining the fucking preponderance of the United States. Presumably, it's capital will be in "Spider Canyon", a fictional Canyon not far from Promontory Point, Utah.
     
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  20. Wendell Wendell

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    You did a good job with that synopsis. But in an already out-there movie, this was a particularly poorly devised partition, for the reasons you suggest as well as for others. Granted, the United States presents as a particularly challenging country to divide once it has reached the Pacific and began settlement of the interior. One particular oddity I'd argue is giving an unspecified indigenous group Manhattan instead of several groups control of the Indian Territory, land which was historically briefly nominally Spanish, but never ruled by Mexico. As for Alaska, I'd argue that the film at least implies reversion to Russia, not that they would necessarily keep it. Hawaii, of course, is still independent during the Grant administration.