Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Beedok, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. jerseyguy Well-Known Member

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    Instead of choosing to re-building Poland along the lines of either the Piast or the Jagiellonian dynasty, they a ridiculous irredentist version of both combined. This map makes sense considering its publishing date, before the 1860s re-establishing an independent Poland meant re-establishing the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, not a homogenous Polish nation-state like the one that exists today.
     
  2. jerseyguy Well-Known Member

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    If you look at Poland's western border in Silesia, this map is still more modest than the OTL border established at Potsdam.
     
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  3. Luminous Headwing Consulting

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    Elevation profile going from Konigsburg to Odessa, if I have it right.
     
  4. Chris S Member

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    But given the date (November 1939), wouldn't it make more sense for it to be a Japan/Mexico/Germany split than a Japan/Mexico/UK-Canada split?
     
  5. deleonism one of those theythemmers

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    Nah, unfortunately, many Americans actually viewed the Nazis favorably right up until they declared war on us in support of Japan.
     
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  6. TheReformer International Relations Nerd

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    [​IMG]
    A small attempt
     
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  7. Chris S Member

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    Why was it done in jpg? You couldn't save it in png format? that is the more editable format.
     
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  8. Skallagrim Not the one from YouTube. Different other fellow.

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    That's... ambitious. It's like a plan designed to piss off all the neighbours at once. (But as others have noted, this is more an anachronistic, romanticised vision of a PLC "revival" than anything aiming at a realistic Polish state.)

    I do wonder what the lines connectic various cities represent. Planned roads? But then why do they all deliberately avoid Warsaw? or are those cities like regional capitals? But then, once again... why isn't Warsaw included? I can't figure out what the meaning is.
     
  9. Augenis Latvia isn't real Banned

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    The text next to each of the lines ("podstawa panowania polskiego") means "the foundation of Polish rule"

    Gniezno-Krakow is the "first foundation"
    Krakow-Kiev is the "second foundation"
    Vilnius-Kiev is the "third foundation"
    Gniezno-Vilnius is the "fourth foundation"

    Make of that what you will. My guess would be that it's supposed to state that Poland needs to have all four of those cities to count as its natural borders.
     
  10. Skallagrim Not the one from YouTube. Different other fellow.

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    Thanks! It's sounds vaguely mystical when put like that, really.

    ...Now I'm thinking of an ASB scenario where someone seeks to create an "Alchemical Kingdom of Poland", by gaining control over the cities, connected by ley lines or something, that hold the magical "foundations" for this undertaking. :cool:
     
  11. marcinL Well-Known Member

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    Looks like these are natural borders of Poland as in Poland-Lithuania, and natural here means geographical features - rivers, mountains and sea coasts. Although why they would want Moldavia is above me, when Dniester would be as good natural border. And I would say that Lwów rather than Kiev was core Polish city.
     
  12. Albidoom Fuzzy Thing

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    I now wonder if Asimov was inspired by that map when he started his foundation series.
     
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  13. TheReformer International Relations Nerd

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    it was in PNG when i edited it, must have saved it wrong lol
     
  14. Anton2181 Member

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    "Ethnographic Poland" by Czesław Jankowski, 1914 (Jankowski wanted a resurrected Poland under a personal union with Russia post-WWI)
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Kikkomaan Seasoning your life

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    I approve these messages.

    The "natural borders" one is a bit much, but hopefully when Žebrowski said Polish he was just using the colloquial for the Commonwealtho_O(however unlikely that is:oops:)
     
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  16. Admiral A. Kolchak Supreme Leader

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    It's not unlikely, it's a certainty. Before 1922 Poland was considered synonymous with the reestablishment of a Commonwealth-like state, a union of Poles, Lithuanians, and Ruthenians. It was only with the ethnic chaos of armistice Europe that the ideal of "Poland" solidified into a modern nation-state based around Polish speakers.

    That's why the 1914 one was clarified as "ethnographic": it was a state of Polish speakers only, omitting the other groups traditionally considered to comprise "Poland".
     
  17. Kikkomaan Seasoning your life

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    The more you know. Yeah I figured that was probably the case, hadn't even been 100 years since the first partition; it's not a period of history I'm especially familiar with though, so I was unsure. So restoring the Commonwealth(in some form anyway) probably would've been the ultimate goal of the revolutionaries in Poland during the November Uprising and other uprisings then?
     
  18. Admiral A. Kolchak Supreme Leader

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    For the most part, yes.
     
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  19. Anton2181 Member

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    Yes, Żebrowski's Poland would be a resurrected Commonwealth - he himself was a veteran of the November Uprising (1830-1831) which attempted to do just that and was supported by both Poles and other nations living in the former Commonwealth.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    "For our freedom and yours"

    Żebrowski would've been creating this map just 52 years after the partition so the idea was still very much alive (leading to another uprising, in January of 1863). Poland in her natural borders was supposed to "stop the Russian aggression and to be the beacon of liberal ideas in that part of Europe". The image on the left is a cross section of Earth's crust between the Baltic and the Black Sea (Żebrowski was an engineer so I guess he was into that).
     
  20. Zurirach Adankar Well-Known Member

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    My QBAM interpretation:
    polandqbam.png
     
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