Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Beedok, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. Ivoshafen Just A Man From Gondor - Recovering from SATS

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    And you’re still British, no?
    I am a citizen of Indiana and of America.

    However, not of Ohio.
     
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  2. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    I am a citizen of the United Kingdom. I am resident in Wales, which is part of the United Kingdom. I culturally identify as Welsh and British.

    You are a citizen of the United States of America. You are (I assume) resident in the state of Indiana, and therefore strongly identify with that state. Which is fine.

    However, to me that's like someone declaring themselves to be from Yorkshire or Pembrokeshire. Or a German declaring themselves to be from Bavaria, or Schleswig-Holstein. It doesn't sound like someone declaring themselves to be from Belgium, or Lithuania, or Portugal.

    Granted, I don't live in a country the size of a continent.
     
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  3. Ivoshafen Just A Man From Gondor - Recovering from SATS

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    I can respect that, why do I always meet the Welsh members here :p

    I am a resident of Indiana, and I do tend to identify as Hoosier first and American second

    The thing is, people in Germany do identify with their states quite often, however some more than often.

    This had been a fun discussion actually. Bit eye opening
     
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  4. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    And a Welshman is still a Briton.
     
  5. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    This results from a fundamental misunderstanding of the American ideal that is in part pushed by a lot of Americans who don't get that the states aren't meant to just be administrative districts.

    The American states are sovereign, culturally bodies that have entered into confederation together, where they pull their sovereignty.
     
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  6. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    I didn't claim otherwise. People are perfectly within their rights to identify with a particular section of their home country as with the country as a whole, for any reason.

    The United States is a federation, not a confederation. It stopped being a confederation with the ratification of the US Constitution, which replaced the Articles of Confederation.

    An American is a citizen of the USA. They are resident in a particular state.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  7. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    But one does not override the other.
     
  8. Thon Taddeo Well-Known Member

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    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    The 14th amendment disagrees.
     
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  9. Tuque Mon pays, ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver

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    It does. State citizenship isn't a formality, it has bearing on our taxes, whether we're eligible to stand for and hold certain elected offices, and if we can claim benefits distributed by the state government, among other things.

    @Analytical Engine I can see the distinction you're making between identifying as a Welshman and a Hoosier. One's a nationality, the other's a regional identity. The strength with which we identify with either is entirely up to us, of course :). I've always thought of myself more strongly as a New Hampshirite and an ethnic Canadien than an American, but I'd never consider my "nationality" to be anything other than American.
     
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  10. Ivoshafen Just A Man From Gondor - Recovering from SATS

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    I’ve never bothered to learn, can you hold US citizenship without any state citizenship?
     
  11. Tuque Mon pays, ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver

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    You can if you live in D.C., Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, or the Marianas. I know children of U.S. citizens born overseas inherit U.S. citizenship, whether state citizenship can be inherited as well I have no idea.
     
  12. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    Italy_aims_Europe_1936.png Italian_Fascist_Empire.png
    Italy sure had big ambitions, didn't they? Man, if you thought Nazi Germany had some wild dreams.
     
  13. TheSaint250 Well-Known Member

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    I assume its wish to have influence over Austria was after Dollfuss was killed?
     
  14. Luminous Headwing Consulting

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    @Analytical Engine It also explains a few of the conceits of the US system - to the best of my understanding, the powers granted to the federal government are those delegated in the constitution to that federal government by the signatories of it. The powers that are not delegated are thereby reserved by the states themselves. The states do not completely cede the entirety of their sovereign powers to the federal government upon joining the Union.

    And, if I understand it correctly, that is why the Senate is composed of 2 members per state who were originally appointed - the Senators were representatives directly of their state, while the House directly represented the people who reside therein.
     
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  15. Crying Your ideology is shit, SHIIIIIIIIT

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    This isn't really the thread to argue about America's dumb ass federal system, please talk about it somewhere else please
     
  16. Umbric Man Umbric Manned

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    ...it's not dumb? Don't be a prick.
     
  17. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    It came up. It's not like we're taking away from the maps by discussing it.
     
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  18. Ivoshafen Just A Man From Gondor - Recovering from SATS

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    This isn't the place to insult another nations governmental structure.
     
  19. Beedok I exist.

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    Canada's system is pretty messed up too.

    Most large systems are weird when you look to closely.
     
  20. Mr. Bubbles Well-Known Member

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    Neo Roman Empire.png
    Mussolini's Neo Roman Empire in worlda
     
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