Did Turtledove ever say how he managed to forget the existence of the B-36?
To be fair to the man, the B-36s status in the winter of 1950/51 was still more theoretical than real. The bugs were massively crippling and even leaving aside the problems with the plane in particular, overall SAC was still in the process of shaking off the issues that had plagued it. By '53, though, it was a fairly mature technology... but then so was the legion of Soviet of MiG-15s and 17s which could counter it.

I don't disagree, ultimately, that the book's research makes a very poor presentation of how a Third World War in the winter of '50/'51. The Red Army is far less successful than it actually would have been while Soviet strategic nuclear forces are far more successful than they ever could have been at the time. Not to mention the deus ex machina uprising of Eastern Europe, which was not at all organized in the early-50s to launch a major ruprising movement and would have massive Soviet reinforcments constantly streaming through it toward the frontlines on hand to crush any such attempt...
 
Last edited:

marathag

Banned
Where did you get the diameter for RDS-4 from? I've only been able to find it's size in relation to the RDS-3 and I haven't found the diameter of RDS-3 yet.
globalsecurity.org/wmd/russia/rds-4.htm
Not found a length anywhere, though.
Or real dimensions for the RDS-3
 
Why do I get the feeling a ton of former Wehrmacht soldiers/generals are going to be employed in Europe.

After WW3 is over the Clean Wehrmacht myth is going to go into overdrive

I would ask about what sort of changes this would make to the German-Poland and Poland-Russian boarders post war….but I don’t think they’ll be enough people alive in Europe for anyone to think about such things
 
I would ask about what sort of changes this would make to the German-Poland and Poland-Russian boarders post war….but I don’t think they’ll be enough people alive in Europe for anyone to think about such things

This is 1953, not the Cuban missile crisis. There will be plenty of people alive in Europe.
 
All this talk about the nuclear components in a general world war tends to lead people to forget the biological and chemical weapons that would have been employed. Don't forget it was the USSR which captured Unit 731. How many Tu-4s would have been available to dust the North American heartland with anthrax? Or worse?
 
All this talk about the nuclear components in a general world war tends to lead people to forget the biological and chemical weapons that would have been employed. Don't forget it was the USSR which captured Unit 731. How many Tu-4s would have been available to dust the North American heartland with anthrax? Or worse?

Neither were in really good shape since nuclear had taken priority. It's the same problem as nuclear delivery in that it's likely only a few aircraft get through and they are not going to have a major effect. Now dusting Europe during a retreat, that's quite do-able and likely something some might consider, but as Russia is connected to Europe it pretty much means serious 'scorched Earth' with a side of suicide on top. There's really no coming back from such a tactic.

Randy
 

marathag

Banned
All this talk about the nuclear components in a general world war tends to lead people to forget the biological and chemical weapons that would have been employed. Don't forget it was the USSR which captured Unit 731. How many Tu-4s would have been available to dust the North American heartland with anthrax? Or worse?
At this time the main development of BW agents was at Sverdlovsk, and was focusing on Botulinum toxins, not Anthrax. The Japanese didn't do as much research on Anthrax as they did on Bubonic Plague and Botulism. Soviets only got interested in Anthrax in the late '60s.
 
From the Federation of American Scientists:
During World War II, production of all types of chemical agents increased dramatically. Yperite alone was produced by 30 plants with a total capacity of 35,000 tons/year, and Lewisite was produced by 13 plants. Industrial production of sarin began in 1958-1959, production of soman began in 1967, and industrial production of V-agents began in 1972. In the early 1980's special storage facilities were built at industrial sites in Volgograd, Novocheboksarsk, Zaporozhye, Pavlodar, Volsk, and a number of other cities.
 
Where did you get the diameter for RDS-4 from? I've only been able to find it's size in relation to the RDS-3 and I haven't found the diameter of RDS-3 yet.
RDS-3 used the same casing as the RDS-2, and much of the same internals. The difference was the composite pit.
RDS-4 was the first next generation Soviet weapon, better pit, better electronics, betters lenses.
 
Three- Preparing to Escalate
I must step in here to say that this TL is not dead- school, work, relationships, etc, have conspired to place it on the bottom of my list of priorities in a way that wasn't true for Place In the Sun. Alas, further delays between updates will be the norm. But there will be more! I must also thank all of you for your incredible feedback. Besides giving me valuable information it's a great motivator and I'll address comments when I get a chance.

And below we have the next update.

Three- Preparing To Escalate

Mao Zedong's personal reaction to "Vyshinsky's blank check" is, alas, unknown. Nearly all written records- which Mao seldom kept in any case- were destroyed during the Atomic attacks. No one thus knows what the Chinese leader said, when, or to whom.

(As an aside, this is not a problem exclusive to the Chinese. Prof. Adrian Rossman's Filling The Gaps: Historiography in the Absence of Evidence (1987) details three chapters to the lack of source material, especially in the Eastern Bloc, which historians of World War III have to work with.)

It is highly unlikely that Mao ever considered disobeying Stalin's orders to keep the war going. This was due less to his much-publicised fidelity to the Kremlin than it was to his own perceived needs. China had entered the Korean War for three reasons. One, to secure North Korea as a buffer between themselves and the US military. Two, to bleed the Americans and dissuade them from interfering further in China's backyard. Three, to procure as much Soviet aid as possible under the guise of "war assistance", to rebuild their military and, hopefully, build an Atomic Bomb. The first goal was secure. The Americans wouldn't be able to destroy North Korea without escalating the war and inviting Soviet retaliation. War-weariness was not an issue for China. As Mao had frequently observed, their population could absorb anything- and for the first time in forty years, the country was united under an effective government. There would always be bodies to throw into the grinder, and if the Americans escalated, their own casualties would increase. No need to change anything there. As for Soviet aid, the longer the war lasted the more Beijing could extract. Making peace would remove his excuse for demanding aid. So the war would drag on.

Never a skilled orator, Mao delegated the task of responding to Zhou Enlai. The Chinese premier, widely considered Mao's number-two man, was a skilled diplomat who had managed the regime's foreign relations throughout the wars against Japan and the Nationalists. He was a deeply committed Communist and enjoyed a high profile in both East and West. His speech was published in People's Daily and broadcast over Chinese radio. Communist-bloc media published and broadcast translations, but few in the West ever heard it. The Indian ambassador in Beijing was given a copy to send home; the American in New Delhi then passed it to Washington, DC. Taiwanese intelligence agents had beaten the ambassador to the punch, though. They'd heard it on their routine monitorings of Communist radio, and four hours later a transcript was on Eisenhower's desk.

Greetings.

The Chinese people's revolutionary enterprise remains embroiled in its struggle against forces of counterrevolution and their running dogs. As always the leading force in opposition is the United States. American bases act as centres of imperialism and counterrevolution. At the close of the war with Japan, US forces occupied that country, subjugated the people of Taiwan to the rule of the Kuomintang junta, subjected the people of Korea to the rule of the Rhee Syngman junta, and subjugated the oppressed peoples of Southeast Asia to continued rule by colonialist forces. Three years ago the Democratic People's Republic of Korea sought to liberate its brothers from the rule of the Rhee Syngman junta, after which the US imperialists defended their running dog. For two years now the Chinese people's revolutionary enterprise has been committed to the liberation of the Korean Peninsula. Now the US seeks to use its atom bomb to force a decision.

The Chinese people will never back down to the imperialist west. The strength of the people is greater than the strength of the imperialist army and their atoms. If the US imperialists instigate a wider war the result will be suffering the likes of which the world has never seen, at the end of which the US imperialist project will be destroyed.

I call upon the Chinese masses to resist this latest round of foreign bullying. I call upon the Korean masses to continue their struggle of liberation. And I call upon the leadership of the United States to reconsider their treacherous course.
Eisenhower's initial comments have not been recorded but were doubtless both profane and sincere. He was the strongest man in the world! He had Atomic weapons, the world's largest military, and the world's largest economy, and this Communist still thumbed his nose at him. All hope for peace was now dead, and Eisenhower's first instinct was to punish Mao. "If Hitler had given this speech in 1936 over the Rhineland question", he told Vice-President Nixon, "and we had told him where to go, sixty-five million persons would be alive today." Yet Eisenhower's military background pushed him towards restraint, not action. Countless lives were at stake. Acting on emotion rather than reason could start a war that would make Hitler's seem trivial. Eisenhower did not fear war, but he was determined to analyse the situation and find a move which would get Mao to back down.

Instead, the President set himself up for failure.

Friday, March 19 was unseasonably chilly in Washington DC. The previous day Eisenhower had quietly reached out to his Cabinet, requesting their presence at the White House on a "matter of strategic significance". Little more was said lest the press get wind, but it didn't take a genius to draw a connection to Korea.

Once the President entered the room the doors were locked and the curtains were drawn. "Gentlemen", he began, clearing his throat, "the situation on the Korean Peninsula has become very grave in recent days. Our enemies have lost all interest, it seems, in making peace, even though to do would bring them no loss. This simply cannot stand any longer, and I need to know how best to bring the Reds to the bargaining table. Your advice, gentlemen, is crucial."

"Simple", barked the scowling Secretary of State. "They started this war, did they not? We all know how soft President Truman was on 'em. He just stood by as they entered China, and it looked for a moment as if he'd let them take Korea as well." Dulles raised his hands. "You gentlemen all know this of course, and my goal is not to degrade your predecessor, Mr. President. But the fact is the Reds think they're invincible. You, sir, told them the consequence for continuing the war would be nuclear attack. Back down from that and you will come across as even softer than Truman."

"I concur", said the Secretary of Defense. "This war is costing us time, money, and lives, and yes I know the Reds are taking it just as bad. But that's not the point. Our atomic arsenal gives us more bang for the buck"- he chuckled under his breath- "and if we don't use it we're practically derelict. What we face, Mr. President, is a choice just like we did in 1945. Use the Bomb or take God only knows how many casualties."

"Agreed." Eisenhower nodded slowly, sighing. "If it will end the war, it is worth doing. And, truth be told, had these weapons existed in the summer of 1944, I would have deployed them to save my men." He turned to the Chief of Staff, USAF. "Outline what we have to bring to bear on the Reds."

"Yes, Mr. President." General Nathan F. Twining stood up and tapped a manila folder on the desk. He was a tall, square-jawed man who looked younger than his mid-sixties. "Per this- which many in this room were involved in crafting- we can hit them with everything in the envelope. I spoke with Generals LeMay and Powers earlier today." Twining sighed and looked Eisenhower straight in the eye. "I just need your permission, Mr. President, and I can have SAC on full alert. If our bombers on Okinawa stand-to, they can be in the air half an hour after you give the signal. We can plaster a dozen cities in North Korea- everything worth an atomic bomb- and many times that number in China. All we'd need is your approval."

"Run me off the full list."

Twining listed every major city in North Korea, Manchuria, and the Chinese East Coast. "And all that, Mr. President, would use up but a fraction of our atomic stockpile. SAC can end this war right here if you let it."

Eisenhower massaged his cheeks, frowning. "Too much", he said finally. "How the hell many people would die if we did this? Don't give me a number", he said hurriedly. "The answer is too many just to make a point. If we kill so many Chinese civilians with the atom bomb, how are we any different from killing so many Germans and Japs with incendiaries and conventional munitions?" Every man in the room remembered the horror stories on the front page. Dresden. Tokyo. Hamburg. Did they want to add Beijing, Shanghai, Pyongyang to the list? "Tell me this, General. Of all the targets on that list... which ones will damage North Korea's immediate ability to make war without killing more men than the Nazis or sparking... or instigating a wider war?"

"Well, Mr. President, the gooks are reliant upon the Chinese for nearly everything. It all comes"- he flipped through the folder until he found a map of North Korea- "across these border crossings here." General Twining pointed to Sinuiju, Kanggye, and Hesyan. "They also ship a lot in via Rason, Hamhung, Chongjin, and lesser ports on the Sea of Japan, as well as Chongju on the Yellow Sea. Take those out and you effectively cut them and their Chinese armies off from supplies made in China or the USSR. Throw in Pyongyang and you decapitate the regime. And that doesn't even count tactical targets behind the lines such as supply dumps."

"Air cover will be heavy", the President observed. "Most of these places are in the north of their country, where Soviet pilots are most used to operating. What if- God forbid- one of our bombers is shot down?"

"A valid concern, Mr. President, and something the men at SAC have put a lot of thought into. Suffice it to say that these would operate with the best cover we can give them- as many jet squadrons as you need- and they would drop from relatively high altitude to airburst. Accuracy is less of a concern when dealing with weapons of this magnitude for... obvious reasons." General Twining smiled. "Close counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nowadays, atomic weapons."

"Mmhm. Will this have more of an effect than our conventional strategic bombing has? If a nuclear explosion is like an ordinary explosion two or three orders of magnitude larger, what can SAC do to these towns that the conventional forces haven't?"

"Mr. President, they'll fu- they'll pulverise the gooks, sir. Even relatively low-yield weapons will take these places off the map. Pyongyang- to give you an example, sir- Pyongyang's barely the size of, say, Baltimore. Big, but not big. And some of these little towns- Sinuiju is not even forty square miles." General Twining faced the Cabinet. "Anyone in here disagree? Secretary Dulles, is there anything I'm missing?" Dulles shook his head. No one else said a word aside from a few murmurs of assent.

"Okay", breathed the President. "Put SAC on alert. We'll do this in stages. Give me that map." Twining handed him the manila folder. "Rason is out. Twenty miles from the Soviet border. It's not that I distrust SAC- but my God, can you imagine if this went wrong? If that bomb landed on the Soviet side of the border we will have World War Three, no way around it. Or the Soviets could mistake our bombers as heading to Vladivostok. No Pyongyang, either."

"Sir?" General Twining and Dulles said it at the same time.

"I want to end this war, not conduct a genocide", Eisenhower said. "Say Kim gets spooked after we do this, and Mao is afraid he'll be next. If we leave Kim alive in Pyongyang, there's a chance the North Korean government can ask for a cease-fire itself. I grant it is a lower order of probability, but it isn't an opportunity I'm willing to pass up. Besides", he smirked, "if I'm wrong we can always take Pyongyang off the map later. Far better than wishing there was a government left to surrender to us." Twining looked unconvinced but nodded. "So that gives us Sinuiju, Kanggye, Hyesan, Hamhung, Chongjin, and Chongju. How many casualties are we talking about?"

"Not certain, sir, off the top of my head. But I can estimate." Twining dug around in the manila folder. "Taking Pyongyang off the list will spare a lot of civilians. I would say... between 100,000 and 200,000, both military and civilian."

"Lot fewer than if we bombed Beijing. Alright, very good. Tell SAC to stand by. They started this war- we'll end it."

"Mr. President, sir?" The Secretary of the Treasury raised his hand. "Not truly my field, I appreciate that, but.. what if this strike doesn't do it? What if this doesn't end the war?"

"Well, Mr. Secretary, if that happens.... If that happens, East Asia is about to get a lot emptier. Let's hope we need not do that."


***
Irving Leroy Jones- but it's "Captain" or "Sir" to you. Twenty-nine years old and already going places.
They just weren't where he hoped... but he didn't know that yet.

Georgia, Georgia,
The whole day through
Just an old sweet song
Keeps Georgia on my mind


Sweeet song, baby.” He chuckled and ran a finger along his collar. Only on leave for a few hours and everything was all right.

I'm say Georgia
Georgia
A song of you
(A song of you)


“A sawng of you, girl.” He ran his hands through her thick black hair and along her brown cheek. She smiled up at him, eyes playful.

“What you trying to tell me now… Captain?” She ran her slender hands across his shoulder boards, newly emblazoned with a captain’s insignia. Back to base in two weeks and he’d be the first black officer in the history of his air wing. But he had bigger priorities.

“I’s trying to tell you, girl, there’s a song of you. Song of us. This is our home, girl, we knows it.” One hand on the steering wheel, one hand across her neck. They shared a long kiss.

I said Georgia,
Ooh Georgia, no peace I find
Just an old sweet song
Keeps Georgia on my mind


“Ooh yeah, honey. This song here- this keeping you on my mind.” She turned a deep red. “And that’s how I like it.”

“Likes it that way too. I mean”, she drawled exaggeratedly, “can be so hard for a girl. Having a man always out in that there fancy airplane, off in all corners o’ the world, when she be back here in Georgia all by her lonesome.” Her smile said everything. “We gotta make up for what we been missin’.” They edged closer, and he read her eyes. Laughing, he shook his head.

“Not here, lovey. Tonight though.” The song ended, and he sat up. “Lemme change it.” He flicked the knob before finding sports. It was the peak of the Southeastern Conference and he was a Bulldog to his bones. “The University of Georgia team faces the University of North Carolina tomorrow in what is sure to be a riveting game. At this time the Tar Heels are slightly favored after Georgia point guard…” He switched the radio off and glared at his girlfriend. “Fu-I mean…” Embarrassed, he stroked his cheek. “Lemme tell you”, he continued, “we is the best state in this country at basketball- gotta be. We too good to be having these problems and if those damn Tar Heels get ahead of us I is not gonna be a happy man- y’hear me?”

“Terrible man”, she said. “Here we is together and all you’s worried about is basketball. What kind of a Captain are ya?”

He smiled and opened the door. “Sorry, madam.” He bowed low before getting out of the car. A moment later, he returned with a white rose in hand. “This better?” The kiss he got suggested yes, yes it was. Everything was all right.

“Now lemme put that back on”, he said after a long while.

“...and the Bulldogs are ahead with only ten minutes left in the game- going to be a good night by the looks of things- yes, yes Georgia has the ball, down the court, will he make it, will he- yes, yes I believe so-- AND IT’S IN!, yes, another close shot inside the line for Georgia bringing the score to 27-14…”

“I knew it”, he said smugly. “Knew they wouldn’t let me down.”

And it’s been intercepted, yes, going the right-” The game stopped. Static blared.

“The hell?” He fiddled with the knobs. “Damn silly radio. What-”

“We interrupt this program to bring you a message from the President of the United States regarding a matter of supreme national importance.” His stomach turned to ice. She grabbed him tightly.

My fellow Americans…”
 
Why do I get the feeling a ton of former Wehrmacht soldiers/generals are going to be employed in Europe.
Those generals outside of Germany. But those in it? The bulk of them are probably gonna wind up collateral to all the nukes falling all over the place. Negotiation for the formation of an actual West German Armed Force was ongoing and there was no system for the mobilization, training, and arming of new forces set-up yet. The closest you had to Bundeswher were the West German Border Guards. Put together, they amounted to about a panzergrenadier division, but they were obviously spread up and down the border. East Germany's military is already set-up, but it was always intended as more of an occupation force to follow in the Soviet vanguard.

Also, if the Soviets want to get REALLY ballsey, there is one option for nuclear delivery immediately available to them that would let them hit the US without having to sacrifice a Tu-4 or Tu-16 and even have the plane getting a chance to return. The Tu-85. It has the range to hit the US and return, and in testing proved to be extremely reliable.

Main two problems: there's only two of them and they're pure prop bombers.
 
Last edited:
Those generals outside of Germany. But those in it? The bulk of them are probably gonna wind up collateral to all the nukes falling all over the place. Negotiation for the formation of an actual West German Armed Force was ongoing and there was no system for the mobilization, training, and arming of new forces set-up yet. The closest you had to Bundeswher were the West German Border Guards. Put together, they amounted to about a panzergrenadier division, but they were obviously spread up and down the broder. East Germany's military is already set-up, but it was always intended as more of an occupation force to follow in the Soviet vanguard.

Also, if the Soviets want to get REALLY ballsey, there is one option for nuclear delivery immediately available to them that would let them hit the US without having to sacrifice a Tu-4 or Tu-16 and even have the plane getting a chance to return. The Tu-85. It has the range to hit the US and return, and in testing proved to be extremely reliable.

Main two problems: there's only two of them and they're pure prop bombers.
The West German Army, such as it is, won't be anything more than a speedbump. Think civilian militias equipped with NATO surplus and thrown together with improper, rushed, training. Even without nuclear weapons they would do little.

Unfortunately for the East Germans, that occupation force will be trying to keep order in what was, until recently, their country after the American atomic strike.

I like the Tu-85 idea and will absolutely work them into the story. That said, Soviet strategic warfare will be limited mainly to Western Europe for reasons of range (and because it more closely supports the land war).
 

marathag

Banned
We can plaster a dozen cities in North Korea- everything worth an atomic bomb- and many times that number in China. All we'd need is your approval."
By the end of 1951,North Korea was pretty much past the point Japan had been in in July, 1945, with all cities above 100k in population over 30% destroyed by conventional night bombing.
from the wiki

City% estimated destruction
Anju15%
Chinnampo (Namp'o)80%
Chongju (Chŏngju)60%
Haeju75%
Hamhung (Hamhŭng)80%
Hungnam (Hŭngnam)85%
Hwangju (Hwangju County)97%
Kanggye60% (reduced from previous estimate of 75%)
Kunu-ri (Kunu-dong)100%
Kyomipo (Songnim)80%
Musan5%
Najin (Rashin)5%
Pyongyang75%
Sariwon (Sariwŏn)95%
Sinanju100%
Sinuiju50%
Songjin (Kimchaek)50%
Sunan (Sunan-guyok)90%
Unggi (Sonbong County)5%
Wonsan (Wŏnsan)80%
The bombing campaign destroyed almost every substantial building in North Korea.[17][18] The war's highest-ranking U.S. POW, U.S. Major General William F. Dean,[19] reported that the majority of North Korean cities and villages he saw were either rubble or snow-covered wasteland.[20][21] Dean Rusk, the U.S. State Department official who headed East Asian affairs, concluded that America had bombed "everything that moved in North Korea, every brick standing on top of another".[22]

North Korean factories, schools, hospitals, and government offices were forced to move underground.[2] In November 1950, the North Korean leadership instructed the population to build dugouts and mud huts and to dig tunnels, in order to solve the acute housing problem.[23]

In an interview with U.S. Air Force Historians in 1988, USAF General Curtis LeMay, who was also head of the U.S. Strategic Air Command, commented on efforts to win the war as a whole, including the strategic bombing campaign, saying “Right at the start of the war, unofficially, I slipped a message in "under the carpet" in the Pentagon that we ought to turn SAC lose with some incendiaries on some North Korean towns. The answer came back, under the carpet again, that there would be too many civilian casualties; we couldn't do anything like that. We went over there and fought the war and eventually burned down every town in North Korea anyway, some way or another, and some in South Korea, too......Over a period of three years or so we killed off, what, 20 percent of the population of Korea, as direct casualties of war or from starvation and exposure? Over a period of three years, this seemed to be acceptable to everybody, but to kill a few people at the start right away, no, we can't seem to stomach that.”[24][22]

Pyongyang, which saw 75 percent of its area destroyed, was so devastated that bombing was halted as there were no longer any worthy targets.[25][26] By the end of the campaign, US bombers had difficulty in finding targets and were reduced to bombing footbridges or jettisoning their bombs into the sea
.[27]

At the point of timeline, there isn't any DPRK Countervalue targets left, that are worth a nuke, unless in the words of LeMay himself, you want to the rubble at Pyongyang to bounce.
 

marathag

Banned
“We interrupt this program to bring you a message from the President of the United States regarding a matter of supreme national importance.” His stomach turned to ice.
The first national early warning system, CONELRAD was in place and the first National test on September 16th, 1953
1676504007954.png


So how that worked, is that on receiving the alert, stations not on 640 or 1240 would go dark.
By law, all radios made in 1953 on, would have the locator triangles on the Dial to assist
1676504208689.png
1676504247508.png
 
All this talk about the nuclear components in a general world war tends to lead people to forget the biological and chemical weapons that would have been employed. Don't forget it was the USSR which captured Unit 731. How many Tu-4s would have been available to dust the North American heartland with anthrax? Or worse?
How do you know bio & chemical weapons would've been used? The Soviets didn't use them even under the desperate pressure they were under in 1941/42. They understood they would give them no real advantage, because the enemy could respond in kind.
 
The West German Army, such as it is, won't be anything more than a speedbump. Think civilian militias equipped with NATO surplus and thrown together with improper, rushed, training. Even without nuclear weapons they would do little.

Unfortunately for the East Germans, that occupation force will be trying to keep order in what was, until recently, their country after the American atomic strike.

I like the Tu-85 idea and will absolutely work them into the story. That said, Soviet strategic warfare will be limited mainly to Western Europe for reasons of range (and because it more closely supports the land war).
The problem with dropping a nuke on a U.S. city in 1953 is the retaliation would be massive. The American People would be more outraged than they were about Pearl Harbor.
 
By the end of 1951,North Korea was pretty much past the point Japan had been in in July, 1945, with all cities above 100k in population over 30% destroyed by conventional night bombing.
from the wiki

City% estimated destruction
Anju15%
Chinnampo (Namp'o)80%
Chongju (Chŏngju)60%
Haeju75%
Hamhung (Hamhŭng)80%
Hungnam (Hŭngnam)85%
Hwangju (Hwangju County)97%
Kanggye60% (reduced from previous estimate of 75%)
Kunu-ri (Kunu-dong)100%
Kyomipo (Songnim)80%
Musan5%
Najin (Rashin)5%
Pyongyang75%
Sariwon (Sariwŏn)95%
Sinanju100%
Sinuiju50%
Songjin (Kimchaek)50%
Sunan (Sunan-guyok)90%
Unggi (Sonbong County)5%
Wonsan (Wŏnsan)80%
The bombing campaign destroyed almost every substantial building in North Korea.[17][18] The war's highest-ranking U.S. POW, U.S. Major General William F. Dean,[19] reported that the majority of North Korean cities and villages he saw were either rubble or snow-covered wasteland.[20][21] Dean Rusk, the U.S. State Department official who headed East Asian affairs, concluded that America had bombed "everything that moved in North Korea, every brick standing on top of another".[22]

North Korean factories, schools, hospitals, and government offices were forced to move underground.[2] In November 1950, the North Korean leadership instructed the population to build dugouts and mud huts and to dig tunnels, in order to solve the acute housing problem.[23]

In an interview with U.S. Air Force Historians in 1988, USAF General Curtis LeMay, who was also head of the U.S. Strategic Air Command, commented on efforts to win the war as a whole, including the strategic bombing campaign, saying “Right at the start of the war, unofficially, I slipped a message in "under the carpet" in the Pentagon that we ought to turn SAC lose with some incendiaries on some North Korean towns. The answer came back, under the carpet again, that there would be too many civilian casualties; we couldn't do anything like that. We went over there and fought the war and eventually burned down every town in North Korea anyway, some way or another, and some in South Korea, too......Over a period of three years or so we killed off, what, 20 percent of the population of Korea, as direct casualties of war or from starvation and exposure? Over a period of three years, this seemed to be acceptable to everybody, but to kill a few people at the start right away, no, we can't seem to stomach that.”[24][22]

Pyongyang, which saw 75 percent of its area destroyed, was so devastated that bombing was halted as there were no longer any worthy targets.[25][26] By the end of the campaign, US bombers had difficulty in finding targets and were reduced to bombing footbridges or jettisoning their bombs into the sea
.[27]

At the point of timeline, there isn't any DPRK Countervalue targets left, that are worth a nuke, unless in the words of LeMay himself, you want to the rubble at Pyongyang to bounce.
Just moving the rubble around, and maybe demonstrating to Mao that the United States is serious. Aside from destroying border crossings, though, you're right- an Atomic strike could do little conventional bombing hadn't.
The first national early warning system, CONELRAD was in place and the first National test on September 16th, 1953
View attachment 810604

So how that worked, is that on receiving the alert, stations not on 640 or 1240 would go dark.
By law, all radios made in 1953 on, would have the locator triangles on the Dial to assist
View attachment 810606View attachment 810607
Oops. Guess I should have clarified that this wasn't an alert they heard- rather, Eisenhower was about to address the nation to explain the crisis. Given that Captain Irving is an Air Force pilot, he wouldn't be on leave if the situation was so grave Washington thought an attack imminent.
How do you know bio & chemical weapons would've been used? The Soviets didn't use them even under the desperate pressure they were under in 1941/42. They understood they would give them no real advantage, because the enemy could respond in kind.
Unfortunately, this war will see Chemical Weapons come out in great numbers by both sides. Since, within three days, the Atom Bombs will have done their work, poison gas and even Anthrax are suddenly a lot less unthinkable.
The problem with dropping a nuke on a U.S. city in 1953 is the retaliation would be massive. The American People would be more outraged than they were about Pearl Harbor.
The American People will be plenty outraged about the attack on their men in Europe and Asia.
 
Top