If we're going to derail the thread whilst waiting for updates, could we please do it with something like a discussion of bison burgers or favourite alcoholic/non-alcoholic tipple, and not the endless 'Germans should have won Barbarossa if only Hitler had built steam tractors instead of submarines' debate?
Munich Shuffle: 1938-1942
- Thread starter Garrison
- Start date
Garrison
Donor
I am going to invoke authorial fiat and say that Nazi Germany was completely uninterested in steam vehicles ITTL because it was seen as retrograde and introducing a whole new level of complexity in terms of fuel parts and trained manpower. If someone had suggested hovercraft they would have been all over it of course. 
Maybe they can convert the Graf Zeppelin to a hovercraft.If someone had suggested hovercraft they would have been all over it of course.
Your privilege and thanks.I am going to invoke authorial fiat and say that Nazi Germany was completely uninterested in steam vehicles ITTL because it was seen as retrograde and introducing a whole new level of complexity in terms of fuel parts and trained manpower. If someone had suggested hovercraft they would have been all over it of course.
The Nazis were an odd mix of proclaiming a New Order politically and militarily but quite reactionary in other areas. Agriculture (where steam tractors might have been useful!), art, architecture, music etc. Romantic era ultra Nationalists?
Now, rocket powered supply vehicles might have caught their eye. 😀
I now have a mental image of a carrier task group based around a hover-GZ and a cruiser squadron of Rattes roaming the steppes.
Instead of steam trucks perhaps the Germans could have built a fleet of Rattes, removed the guns and used them as supply carriers/land-ships 😉
That'll do. Might be useful for Sealion too. It's a cunning plan, because no-one would expect it, so they wouldn't be prepared.
Addendum I – Rudolf Hess
Garrison
Donor
Addendum I – Rudolf Hess
For almost fifteen years there was no great mystery surrounding the fate of Rudolf Hess. On the morning of the 13th of May 1941 there was a solemn announcement broadcast across the Reich stating that that Deputy Fuhrer Hess had been flying to Berlin in his personal plane and had been killed when it crashed enroute. Naturally there was speculation in Britain and the USA that Hess might have been executed for some offence against Hitler, but in the absence of hard information this fizzled out as events in the Soviet Union captured everyone’s attention and those who knew the truth kept silent, content to let the truth remain hidden. After the war there were accounts from inside the fallen Reich that claimed that Hess had not died crashed in Germany. While he had indeed taken off in his plane, a modified Bf 110, he had simply disappeared after that, and Hitler had decided to keep this minor mystery from the public in case it affected morale. The common opinion of these German sources was that he had been shot down, either deliberately by the RAF or accidentally by the Luftwaffe, or that he gotten lost and crashed unnoticed into some deep body of water.
Given that most of these stories came from men facing war crimes trials they weren’t given much attention and it was not until 1954 that it was finally revealed that Hess had not crashed in Germany lake but in Scotland, while undertaking a personal mission to make peace with the British. On the morning of the 11th of May a platoon of soldiers were dispatched to investigate a report that a plane had crashed during the night. Since no RAF flights had been scheduled it was assumed it was German, but a lone aircraft in a rather isolated spot was not considered a critical priority. After several hours of searching the platoon finally located the shattered wreckage. The pilot was found still strapped into the remains of the cockpit and a briefcase was found nearby. It was battered and scorched and yet still largely intact. When the corporal in charge of the platoon opened it. he discovered a cache of documents which were swiftly passed up the chain of command and on the 12th of May the orders came back down to suppress the entire incident. The soldiers of the platoon, the mortuary attendants at the funeral home where the body had been taken, and anyone else who might have heard anything about the incident were instructed in no uncertain terms that they were to never discuss the matter and that officially it had never happened.
The pilot was of course Rudolf Hess and the documents he carried related to a peace proposal that he had apparently intended to deliver to a Scottish aristocrat, who was quite bemused when he found himself being interviewed by MI5 as to why Hess might think he was a suitable candidate to contact. Given the potential political impact if this event became public it was little wonder that Churchill ordered the entire thing to be covered up, and it continued to be supressed until some rather lurid theories began to circulate, intended to raise the profile of a rather lurid book about missing Nazis, suggested Hess had escaped to Latin America, possibly with the collusion of the British in exchange for valuable intelligence about the workings of the Nazi regime. To kill off these scurrilous stories the authorities decided to reveal the truth, only to provoke a welter of further fevered speculation. Was Hess’ mission sanctioned by Hitler or was he acting on his initiative? Had he simply crashed, or had he been shot down? Perhaps Churchill had learned of the mission and ordered his plane to be intercepted? Most of those who might have answered these questions were either already dead or simply refused to discuss the matter, including Churchill himself. The field was thus left clear for conspiracies theories to thrive, and to this day some argue that it wasn’t Hess who crashed at all, and he did indeed live out his life somewhere in Argentina, probably in the company of Adolf Hitler and Martin Bormann.
Garrison
Donor
The plan with the addendums is either covering things that never got discussed in the main part of the TL, or just comparing with OTL, as with the next one which is about Chamberlain's reputation. As for the sequel I've been writing about an operation that takes place just before D-Day that turned out bigger than expected and I've written the first part of D-Day and as I am bouncing around a bit I will be working on Citadel next.
I have to imagine the Soviets still win Citadel but suffer much higher casualties.
I would think so, more troops that didn't go to Africa, more and better Tigers plus I think the Germans have more TD's this time around not to mention an earlier introduction of the Hetzer.
So I'm thinking higher casualties for the Sovs if nothing else.
If it looks likely that the Wallies are going to launch the invasion of North West Europe on the summer of 1943 do the Germans still go on the offensive in the East? There is the argument that if the Wallies invasion fails they may never launch a second one. Therefore could the Germans remain on the defensive in the East to build a credible strategic reserve in the West?
Garrison
Donor
I did consider that possibility, but I decided that Hitler is still going to be focused on somehow turning the tide in the East to win the war, or at least get some sort of ceasefire. This is not going to make the sort of German officer who tried to blow up Hitler IOTL very happy.
Transport network is better in this timeline in 1943 than in otl June 1944, and the French resistance a year less organised. Throw in the Americans being a year less trained, and I wouldn't be surprised if alternate historians in this timeline end up discussing if the Western Allies should have resisted the political pressure from the Kremlin, or at least gone for somewhere which was not France...
(Especially if Hitler with a year less mental deterioration releases reserves faster than in otl 1944.)
(Especially if Hitler with a year less mental deterioration releases reserves faster than in otl 1944.)
We also have to remember that Hitler is, well, Hitler. Hitler is not fighting a political or industrial war. He is fighting a racial war. The war in the East is the war, because that is where the true, racial enemy resides.