A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
- Start date
- Status
Dr. Who's Next?
Regenerating the 7th Doctor!
From Regenerating Who Netlog, October 21st, 2006
We all have our favorite Old Skool Doctors. Tom Baker’s 4th? Jon Pertwee’s 3rd? Peter Davidson’s 5th? Maybe all the way back to William Hartnell’s 1st or Patrick Troughton’s 2nd?
Well, chances are that you didn’t say Colin Baker’s 6th, though he’s getting a lot more love and respect today than he did at the time, but just maybe you’re one of those loud and proud few who liked Richard Griffiths’ 7th?
Richard Griffiths (R) in Withnail and I, 1987 (Image source “Irishtimes.com”)
Griffiths was, like Colin Baker before him, a deliberate change on what had come before. Where the black clad, Byronic 6th Doctor was dark and cunning, the 7th was a near-literal clown in the Shakespearian sense and with an outfit to match. The so-called “Technicolor Nightmare Coat” worn by Griffiths was originally developed for Colin Baker’s 6th Doctor, but reportedly BBC 1 boss Michael Grade took one look at it and said “no”, and thus Baker got his wish and wore the black velvet jacket that he wanted, which honestly was a more appropriate look for his darker take on the Doctor.
By this point in the show’s run, Dr. Who had been on the air continuously for over a quarter century and was having a hard time retaining audiences as tastes changed. Each of the two late ‘80s Doctors can be seen as a sort of “Hail Mary” to reinvigorate flagging viewership, and which in turn alienated parts of that viewership in what in hindsight can be seen as a vicious circle. The BBC had already largely given up on the show and was arguably subtly sabotaging it. Fan theories abound and supporting evidence is limited and often contradictory. But whatever your thoughts, the 6th and 7th Doctors were clearly products of this volatile time in franchise history.
Fan take on the 6th Doctor a’ la Noir (Image posted by Anthony Redgrave on “pinterest.com”)
Colin Baker had played a supporting role in Dr. Who before, and reportedly was given the job of replacing the outgoing Davidson without an audition. Show runner John Nathan-Turner deliberately wanted a completely different Doctor to what had come before. A darker take on the venerable character was in order, he felt, and this did not please the fans, who found Colin Baker’s Doctor unlikable, borderline evil, and, thanks to the black coat (much as Nathan-Turner feared would happen), inevitably compared him to the Master. “He traded in his Doctorate for a Master’s Degree,” as Michael Palin wryly observed.
Baker left the show after three incomplete seasons on poor terms with the management. Nathan-Turner left the show around the same time, irritated with executive interference and in a growing dispute with scriptwriter Eric Saward. Nathan-Turner took an opportunity with ITV, which had been expanding its programming and was rebroadcasting several US shows and classic films on the new BSB satellite channel in a three-way partnership with ACC’s Robert Holmes-à-Court and CBS’s Ted Turner[1].
The 7th Doctor’s Infamous Technicolor Nightmare Coat (Image source “pinterest.com”)
Saward took over as show runner and, struggling in the midst of the chaos, went back to Nathan-Turner’s original choice for the 5th Doctor, character actor Richard Griffiths, who had a lot of support from management. In keeping with the “complete change in direction” philosophy, and in direct response to the fan anger over the darker take of the 6th Doctor, Griffiths’ Doctor would be much lighter and more comedic. The Technicolor Nightmare Coat, intended originally for Baker as mentioned, was brought back out and refitted for Griffiths. Taking a cue from Patrick Troughton’s 2nd Doctor, Griffiths gave the Doctor a more befuddled, whimsical quality, slightly effeminate in contrast to Baker’s harsh masculinity, and a bit of a hedonist when it came to food and sweets. He famously curled up his prodigious mustache with wax, carried a campy cane shaped like a question mark, and on occasion wore a battered, equally garish top hat to match the coat. A rumpled take on a Victorian fop.
And yet, reportedly influenced by Peter Falk’s Columbo, Griffiths’ Doctor’s clownishness concealed a truly cunning mind, allowing his enemies to underestimate him and then perpetually outfoxing them, seemingly by accident at times. “I thought of him as a carnival barker,” Griffiths said of the character. “He’s sort-of this friendly, likable character, but secretly a bit manipulative and dishonest, only here the Doctor is dishonest only in proportion to the dishonesty of the person that he is reacting to. Play fair with him and he’ll play fair with you. But try and manipulate him, and watch out!”
Companion Mel Bush’s cheery disposition clashed somewhat with the clownishness of Griffiths’ 7th Doctor, so she left at the end of Season 24 to be replaced with the punkish Fen played by comedian Rik Mayall, who may or may not have the blood of the werewolf-like Fenrics in his veins. The comedically rude and obnoxious Fen played a better counterpoint to the 7th Doctor while maintaining the lighter, more comedic take of the 7th Doctor’s run. At the time, some moral guardians (particularly the American Family Association and Televangelist Jerry Falwell) accused the two of being homosexual lovers and accused the show of attempting to “sell a gay lifestyle to children”. While this accused gayness was objectively not the intent of the show runners, the characters did ultimately get accepted as “gay icons” by the LGBTQ community.
Once again, the choices made divided the fans. Many saw the 7th Doctor as a return to the show’s earlier whimsey after the increasing seriousness of the 5th and 6th Doctors’ runs while others felt they’d overcorrected, turning the Doctor into “a clown and a joke”. In hindsight, many started to appreciate the dark seriousness that Colin Baker had brought to the role, and the fandom divided into factions, some at first refusing to recognize the 7th Doctor. Complicating things further for the dedicated fans, Griffiths’ take, particularly when combined with Mayall’s chaotic obnoxiousness, attracted a younger fandom and, more nefariously, a much younger American fandom! The young Yanks, it seemed, liked the silliness and camp of it all and PBS stations moved the show to a Sunday Afternoon slot, where the Age 8-12 Nielsen Ratings started to increase. Soon K-9 was brought back, now with a neon ‘80s makeover, and the TARDIS began to make more frequent visits to places in the States, much to the chagrin of the older British fans[2].
Love him or hate him, Richard Griffiths’ 7th Doctor remains an interesting turn in the history of the long running series. His “Technicolor Nightmare Coat” remains as iconic as Tom Baker’s scarf or Jon Pertwee’s ruffled shirts. His child-friendly and Yank-friendly appearance marked a watershed moment in the show, with long running consequences.
Richard Griffiths left his role in 1989 after a 3-season run. Fen stayed on another half season, now partnered with the even more divisive 8th Doctor, but that’s a story for another time.
[1] In our timeline Saward was the one who left, leaving Nathan-Turner with a show he was tired of producing. He went with Sylvester McCoy as the 7th Doctor, who in turn became the last Doctor for several years, with an attempted reboot in the 1990s with Paul McGann that never went beyond the pilot, an abortive attempt at a Nelvana animation, and, finally, the 2003 reboot.
[2] How does one “save” a very quirky long-running show with flagging ratings and an exhausted audience? You find a new audience and hope that more new audience members appear than old audience members leave. Looking at the options that the BBC had in the late 1980s for something as idiosyncratic as Dr. Who, the options were few. Geek Culture barely existed outside of a few Con Circuits and certainly lacked the massive purchasing power it has now. Dr. Who was too campy to be cool even with a Bad Boy Doctor who Played By His Own Rules, and Ironic Camp Cool didn’t yet exist beyond a small audience (only enough to sustain MST3K in an unfavorable Basic Cable time slot). So, who’s left that could possibly like a show as unrepentantly campy as Dr. Who when the old audience was going extinct? The one group that still unironically likes camp: kids! Love it, hate it…it’s what I had so I went there.
Just wait until you see the 8th Doctor!
No, not him (Image source “tribulationsofthera.tumbler.com”)
From Regenerating Who Netlog, October 21st, 2006
We all have our favorite Old Skool Doctors. Tom Baker’s 4th? Jon Pertwee’s 3rd? Peter Davidson’s 5th? Maybe all the way back to William Hartnell’s 1st or Patrick Troughton’s 2nd?
Well, chances are that you didn’t say Colin Baker’s 6th, though he’s getting a lot more love and respect today than he did at the time, but just maybe you’re one of those loud and proud few who liked Richard Griffiths’ 7th?
Richard Griffiths (R) in Withnail and I, 1987 (Image source “Irishtimes.com”)
Griffiths was, like Colin Baker before him, a deliberate change on what had come before. Where the black clad, Byronic 6th Doctor was dark and cunning, the 7th was a near-literal clown in the Shakespearian sense and with an outfit to match. The so-called “Technicolor Nightmare Coat” worn by Griffiths was originally developed for Colin Baker’s 6th Doctor, but reportedly BBC 1 boss Michael Grade took one look at it and said “no”, and thus Baker got his wish and wore the black velvet jacket that he wanted, which honestly was a more appropriate look for his darker take on the Doctor.
By this point in the show’s run, Dr. Who had been on the air continuously for over a quarter century and was having a hard time retaining audiences as tastes changed. Each of the two late ‘80s Doctors can be seen as a sort of “Hail Mary” to reinvigorate flagging viewership, and which in turn alienated parts of that viewership in what in hindsight can be seen as a vicious circle. The BBC had already largely given up on the show and was arguably subtly sabotaging it. Fan theories abound and supporting evidence is limited and often contradictory. But whatever your thoughts, the 6th and 7th Doctors were clearly products of this volatile time in franchise history.
Fan take on the 6th Doctor a’ la Noir (Image posted by Anthony Redgrave on “pinterest.com”)
Colin Baker had played a supporting role in Dr. Who before, and reportedly was given the job of replacing the outgoing Davidson without an audition. Show runner John Nathan-Turner deliberately wanted a completely different Doctor to what had come before. A darker take on the venerable character was in order, he felt, and this did not please the fans, who found Colin Baker’s Doctor unlikable, borderline evil, and, thanks to the black coat (much as Nathan-Turner feared would happen), inevitably compared him to the Master. “He traded in his Doctorate for a Master’s Degree,” as Michael Palin wryly observed.
Baker left the show after three incomplete seasons on poor terms with the management. Nathan-Turner left the show around the same time, irritated with executive interference and in a growing dispute with scriptwriter Eric Saward. Nathan-Turner took an opportunity with ITV, which had been expanding its programming and was rebroadcasting several US shows and classic films on the new BSB satellite channel in a three-way partnership with ACC’s Robert Holmes-à-Court and CBS’s Ted Turner[1].
The 7th Doctor’s Infamous Technicolor Nightmare Coat (Image source “pinterest.com”)
Saward took over as show runner and, struggling in the midst of the chaos, went back to Nathan-Turner’s original choice for the 5th Doctor, character actor Richard Griffiths, who had a lot of support from management. In keeping with the “complete change in direction” philosophy, and in direct response to the fan anger over the darker take of the 6th Doctor, Griffiths’ Doctor would be much lighter and more comedic. The Technicolor Nightmare Coat, intended originally for Baker as mentioned, was brought back out and refitted for Griffiths. Taking a cue from Patrick Troughton’s 2nd Doctor, Griffiths gave the Doctor a more befuddled, whimsical quality, slightly effeminate in contrast to Baker’s harsh masculinity, and a bit of a hedonist when it came to food and sweets. He famously curled up his prodigious mustache with wax, carried a campy cane shaped like a question mark, and on occasion wore a battered, equally garish top hat to match the coat. A rumpled take on a Victorian fop.
And yet, reportedly influenced by Peter Falk’s Columbo, Griffiths’ Doctor’s clownishness concealed a truly cunning mind, allowing his enemies to underestimate him and then perpetually outfoxing them, seemingly by accident at times. “I thought of him as a carnival barker,” Griffiths said of the character. “He’s sort-of this friendly, likable character, but secretly a bit manipulative and dishonest, only here the Doctor is dishonest only in proportion to the dishonesty of the person that he is reacting to. Play fair with him and he’ll play fair with you. But try and manipulate him, and watch out!”
Companion Mel Bush’s cheery disposition clashed somewhat with the clownishness of Griffiths’ 7th Doctor, so she left at the end of Season 24 to be replaced with the punkish Fen played by comedian Rik Mayall, who may or may not have the blood of the werewolf-like Fenrics in his veins. The comedically rude and obnoxious Fen played a better counterpoint to the 7th Doctor while maintaining the lighter, more comedic take of the 7th Doctor’s run. At the time, some moral guardians (particularly the American Family Association and Televangelist Jerry Falwell) accused the two of being homosexual lovers and accused the show of attempting to “sell a gay lifestyle to children”. While this accused gayness was objectively not the intent of the show runners, the characters did ultimately get accepted as “gay icons” by the LGBTQ community.
Once again, the choices made divided the fans. Many saw the 7th Doctor as a return to the show’s earlier whimsey after the increasing seriousness of the 5th and 6th Doctors’ runs while others felt they’d overcorrected, turning the Doctor into “a clown and a joke”. In hindsight, many started to appreciate the dark seriousness that Colin Baker had brought to the role, and the fandom divided into factions, some at first refusing to recognize the 7th Doctor. Complicating things further for the dedicated fans, Griffiths’ take, particularly when combined with Mayall’s chaotic obnoxiousness, attracted a younger fandom and, more nefariously, a much younger American fandom! The young Yanks, it seemed, liked the silliness and camp of it all and PBS stations moved the show to a Sunday Afternoon slot, where the Age 8-12 Nielsen Ratings started to increase. Soon K-9 was brought back, now with a neon ‘80s makeover, and the TARDIS began to make more frequent visits to places in the States, much to the chagrin of the older British fans[2].
Love him or hate him, Richard Griffiths’ 7th Doctor remains an interesting turn in the history of the long running series. His “Technicolor Nightmare Coat” remains as iconic as Tom Baker’s scarf or Jon Pertwee’s ruffled shirts. His child-friendly and Yank-friendly appearance marked a watershed moment in the show, with long running consequences.
Richard Griffiths left his role in 1989 after a 3-season run. Fen stayed on another half season, now partnered with the even more divisive 8th Doctor, but that’s a story for another time.
[1] In our timeline Saward was the one who left, leaving Nathan-Turner with a show he was tired of producing. He went with Sylvester McCoy as the 7th Doctor, who in turn became the last Doctor for several years, with an attempted reboot in the 1990s with Paul McGann that never went beyond the pilot, an abortive attempt at a Nelvana animation, and, finally, the 2003 reboot.
[2] How does one “save” a very quirky long-running show with flagging ratings and an exhausted audience? You find a new audience and hope that more new audience members appear than old audience members leave. Looking at the options that the BBC had in the late 1980s for something as idiosyncratic as Dr. Who, the options were few. Geek Culture barely existed outside of a few Con Circuits and certainly lacked the massive purchasing power it has now. Dr. Who was too campy to be cool even with a Bad Boy Doctor who Played By His Own Rules, and Ironic Camp Cool didn’t yet exist beyond a small audience (only enough to sustain MST3K in an unfavorable Basic Cable time slot). So, who’s left that could possibly like a show as unrepentantly campy as Dr. Who when the old audience was going extinct? The one group that still unironically likes camp: kids! Love it, hate it…it’s what I had so I went there.
Just wait until you see the 8th Doctor!
No, not him (Image source “tribulationsofthera.tumbler.com”)
Last edited:
...so, basically, a repeat of what happened with Batman and Robin back in the 40s.
Also, side note: I find it interesting that it's implied Doctor Who never went into hiatus ITTL.
Goodbye Nathan-Turner- finally.
That black cost does indeed suit Colin and that period in Who - glad he got his way there.
Richard Griffiths is an incredibly fine actor and his Doctor partnered with Rik Mayall just sounds like something ITTL me would have lapped up, silly or not. It sounds like fun.
Hope Sylvester McCoy finds something to keep him busy- always liked him. Perhaps he does the Monk for Who? Or is there a Blackadder role?
Doctor Who getting a young audience in the US sounds highly probable to me, esp with a more 'silly' Griffiths in the role. The kids might like Tom or Patrick as well, but probably be in their teens before Colin, or Peter appeal to them...
Really looking forward to where you go with Who @Geekhis Khan - more please!
That black cost does indeed suit Colin and that period in Who - glad he got his way there.
Richard Griffiths is an incredibly fine actor and his Doctor partnered with Rik Mayall just sounds like something ITTL me would have lapped up, silly or not. It sounds like fun.
Hope Sylvester McCoy finds something to keep him busy- always liked him. Perhaps he does the Monk for Who? Or is there a Blackadder role?
Doctor Who getting a young audience in the US sounds highly probable to me, esp with a more 'silly' Griffiths in the role. The kids might like Tom or Patrick as well, but probably be in their teens before Colin, or Peter appeal to them...
Really looking forward to where you go with Who @Geekhis Khan - more please!
TBH, assuming HP or Withnail and I as we know it still made, I'm probably going to still associate RG with Dursley or Uncle Monty as in OTL....
Hopefully Doctor can still appeal to the older generations on both sides of the pond.
Hopefully Doctor can still appeal to the older generations on both sides of the pond.
Ah, he wasn't the Master in that one, but more a personification of an evil, eldritch, God. I did cast him as the Second Doctor in another TL though.
My ideal North American actor for the Doctor would be Christopher Plummer, as I've said before.
For the Master in either versions? Tony Jay.
For the Master in either versions? Tony Jay.
Killing off Withnail and I would be a very sad thing indeed.
Hmmm... Doctor gets paired with a male companion, gets gay-shamed... 8th Doctor is even more 'contentious'... early 90s air date... American audience assumed by management...
I'm calling it: Doctor 8 will be a lady doctor ultimately derided for being 'too masculine' AND 'too feminine' for the role depending on who you asked, effectively everything people said they hated about Captain Janeway on ST:Voyager.
I'm calling it: Doctor 8 will be a lady doctor ultimately derided for being 'too masculine' AND 'too feminine' for the role depending on who you asked, effectively everything people said they hated about Captain Janeway on ST:Voyager.
Including Popeye in the team actually makes sense, as he would bridge the gap between King Features's superheroes and their comedy protagonists.
Plus they could have a grown-up Sweetpea in the show to be a companion to the OTHER kid character whose name I can't remember. Not to mention an appearance by the Sea Hag.
It sounds like N-T would be happy to off of Who too. ITTL the expanded ACC gave him that opportunity.
I have a feeling I'd like Griffith's Doctor too. He almost became the 5th Doctor iOTL
The idea of Sylvester McCoy in Blackadder the Third sounds great; perhaps he plays an idiot French nobleman.
Withnail and I would have been released in April '87, so filming in Summer-Fall '86, so Griffith would have been able to do both it and Dr. Who ITTL. He's probably not in Ffizz, Casanova, and/or The Marksman iTTL.
I'd forgotten that existed, actually. Well, unless anyone can think of a specific reason why it would be butterflied iTTL, then it would have already been in production when Disney bought Marvel, and recall the contractual obligation to finish all ongoing efforts, so it would be released under Disney around the same time as OTL. I can see adding Popeye as an option assuming you go back to one of his earlier, less inherently goofy iterations.
Of course since Flash Gordon is a part of the crew, and George Lucas is a Disney Associate Director...hmmm...
With The Spirit in 1986 ITTL and The Rocketeer (1991), The Shadow (1994) and The Phantom (1996) OTL is there any chance of Sam Raimi's Batman being set in the golden age?
Also while the subject how about settling Defenders of the Earth in the 1940s?
Also while the subject how about settling Defenders of the Earth in the 1940s?
By finding an American audience...a very young audience compared to the Brits across the pond.
Well, it's probably the only way that it could be saved without the youthful energy of modern geek culture. I'll accept this for the interesting butterflies that it could make but now we've probably done away with RTD's Doctor Who revival. 😭
I'm actually satisfied with where Doctor Who is going, considering Colin Baker got his way and truly made the 6th Doctor the character that he's supposed to be.
For me, I'd prefer the 6th Doctor. He's magnetic in that he's still a good guy, especially during the audio dramas, yet he often plays with the notion that he could be the Master. It all makes his confrontation with the Valeyard all the more tantalizing with The Trial of the Timelord.
But seriously, 7th sounds like a lot of fun. A funny, campy, mischievous, and overall affable Doctor with a companion that's just as buck-wild and crazy. No wonder that LGBTQ audiences identified them as veritable gay icons. It's funny that it does fit American audiences at this time than British ones, so of course Doctor Who survives by hopping across the pond. The question is who would get the rights for a future American Doctor Who, and who would be the next Doctor....
I am glad that Doctor Who found its way stateside. Should be very fun where the TARDIS is going to go next in the timeline.
Reminds me of this skit by Steven Moffat:
It would be hilarious if we got a female Doctor like that, but I think any showrunner could do a character like her better than what Chibnall did with Jodie Whittaker.
I agree for me the Six Doctor will always be a favourite of mine. Yes his coat isn't the best (I prefer his blue coat) but you can tell how passionate and excited Collin Baker was at being the Doctor. I really feel bad for him not getting a proper regeneration and the behind the scenes issues also didn't help. Plus the quality of stories weren't the best either. But I still love 6 and Collin!
At the End of the Sunbow
The End of the Sunbow Era
Nostalgia was Way Better when I was a Kid Netsite, November 14th, 2002
So, for those of us who grew up in the ‘80s there was one company whose animation resonated with us. A company so ubiquitous that if you saw a cartoon that you loved, then they were probably behind it.
No, not Disney…Sunbow.
For those of you too young to know who Sunbow Entertainment was, they were a subsidiary of Griffin-Bacal Advertising and they were the ones who, along with Marvel Productions (yea, that Marvel), brought you most of the toy-based TV animated shows that were all the rage at the time. Specifically, they brought you the Hasbro-based franchises: GI Joe, Transformers, My Little Pony, Jem and the Holograms, etc. They weren’t alone in this. Filmation brought us He Man and She-Ra. Rankin-Bass brought us Thundercats. Tonka delivered the Go Bots.
Now, I know that it’s popular on the Net to shit all over these shows today. Yea, they lack the sleek, fluid vector animation and deeper characterization and plotlines of today’s versions. Yea, the production values were low even by the standards of the time. They animated on the 27’s and recycled the same sequences ad nauseum. Hair color or uniforms could change from scene to scene. The writing could be pretty hack. Whatever. The same can be said of The Flintstones and Scooby Doo, but those are “beloved classics”. Even the hallowed Looney Tunes were getting pretty cheap and limited in the ‘60s before getting abandoned entirely.
So why do we crap on GI Joe and give The Flintstones a pass? Why do we cringe at the word “Cobrala” but laugh adoringly at the camp of “The Great Gazoo?”. Probably because it all aligned to a changing time in both western culture and our own developing lives.
The truth is that the economics of animation are a bitch. The economics of TV animation from the ‘50s to the ‘90s frankly didn’t allow every show to be animated to Richard Williams levels of fluid realism. It wasn’t until the late ‘80s and early ‘90s that computer advances and improving skills allowed for cost-competitive animation, and even then, not every studio was able to buy a $20 million CHERNABOG. By ‘82 and the disastrous Animators’ Strike, most animation had left the US for cheaper studios offshore. By 1988 they’d gotten increasingly good. Some, like Ghibli, were outdoing even the Americans and Europeans. Half of the quality issues in the ‘80s were from Sunbow trying desperately to keep ahead of the ever-increasing costs of Asian animation by going to newer and less experienced studios. It was a “race to the bottom” and a death spiral, and it undoubtedly soured people’s perceptions.
But I, for one, am not going to pile on the Hate[1]. The truth is that I loved the Transformers and I still fucking love them. Yea, there’s a tinge of irony to the enjoyment (I can see the camp now) and I admit to my own nostalgia glasses, but I like them none the less. I don’t care that Starscream is a whiny bitch. I love that about him. As a foil for Megatron, he’s brilliant. Megatron comes across as that much more of a threat because of it. And it makes Starscream’s assassination of Megatron in the Movie that much more impactful. “Holy shit…he actually did it!”
So, the Sunbow and Filmation productions (etc.) all hold a special place in my heart. They were great shows for what they were: entertainment that knew their audience. Yea, they got me to buy their toys directly rather than pawning that role off on the Commercial Sponsors (My Little Pony advertised during “wholesome” Muppet Babies too). But I loved and I still love the characters: Optimus Prime, Megatron, the Dinobots, Duke, Flint, Destro, Snake Eyes…these were and are great characters. I’d put Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow alongside Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader as the founding characters of my childhood. And thanks to Hasbro and Kenner I literally could have Luke and Snake Eyes team up to battle Darth Vader and Cobra Commander’s evil trans-dimensional alliance.
Sunbow and Lucasfilm can sell me that level of awesome any day.
(Image source “jdtoonart.blogspot.com”)
So, what happened to Sunbow? Well, frankly Disney happened to it. And yea, blaming Disney for everything is as cliché as blaming Sunbow or heavy metal or D&D for youth violence. But in this case Disney actually is partly responsible. Disney bought Marvel, and the leadership, in particular CCO Jim Henson, wasn’t interested in keeping the Sunbow lines going. Now, some like to blame Henson’s peacenik nature, and yea, that was definitely a factor. But to be honest, it was primarily a financial decision. Simply put, kids like me just weren’t tuning in to GI Joe and Transformers or My Little Pony any more. “Bronies” weren’t a thing, and any male regardless of age who watched My Little Pony would be referred for psychiatric evaluation. We were “growing up” and moving on, often at the point of a gun. Neurotic Teenage Dick Me wouldn’t be caught dead watching a “kid’s show” like Transformers. And in the late 1980s yea, there totally was a stigma to watching cartoons as an adult, especially as an adult male. Nerds, Geeks, and Otaku were the targets of harassment and even assault back then. If you wanted to see A Small World or even Akira in the theaters you’d better be on a date. Nowadays everyone watches cartoons thanks to people like Matt Groening and, yes, Jim Henson. But the 1980s were a very different time[2].
So, as we grew up, we did our best to deny to everyone, especially ourselves, that the old Sunbow or Filmation toy-driven classics were anything more than “juvenile crap that we outgrew.” It pains me to say those words today just as it did back then. Thank the Maker of SSRIs that I can talk about it now. So rather than admit that we were fickle little shits driven by popular opinion, it was convenient for us know-it-all teens and twenty-somethings to cite their toy-driven nature and low production values as the reason why we abandoned them, not us succumbing to peer pressure to “grow up and conform”.
We frankly did the same thing with Star Wars in the late ‘80s. No one wanted to be the guy in 10th grade with a Han Solo shirt even as we unironically wore Batman shirts because Warner Brothers and JC Penny’s assured us that it was cool. It was only the later Star Wars novels that allowed us to justify continued interest in the Galaxy Far, Far Away in our 20s. Maybe had Hasbro thought to produce an adult novel series for GI Joe, maybe something like the Marvel comics that willingly addressed adult issues like PTSD, then we’d be holding Sunbow up as a worthy maker of art, not just an amoral bunch of greedy Ad Men who sold valueless schlock to stupid kids.
So, yea, I can look back at the old shows and see their limitations, but rather than pile on the snark like everybody else on the Net I choose to remember what I loved about these series. They were cool. They were full of adventure. Snake Eyes was badass. Grimlock rocked. Lion-O was awesome. They even taught me that girls could kick ass, like Scarlet and Teela.
Even the cheesy PSAs, clearly just there to check the “redeeming value” block, came in handy. To this day I know just what to do when my friend gets a nose bleed (pinch your nose and lean your head forward!). Knowing really is half the battle.
So honestly, looking back at the end of the Sunbow Years is a bittersweet moment for me. It was like my own childhood had faded away with that cheery yellow sun on a blue background logo.
[1] Flint-style Beret tip @Kaiser Chris for reminding me to make sure that the aspects of the old Toy-Driven ‘80s cartoons that we loved get mention as well. I liked GI Joe and Transformers best of all.
[2] I’m only slightly exaggerating here. Seriously, the ‘80s were a rough time to be a nerd or geek.
Nostalgia was Way Better when I was a Kid Netsite, November 14th, 2002
So, for those of us who grew up in the ‘80s there was one company whose animation resonated with us. A company so ubiquitous that if you saw a cartoon that you loved, then they were probably behind it.
No, not Disney…Sunbow.
For those of you too young to know who Sunbow Entertainment was, they were a subsidiary of Griffin-Bacal Advertising and they were the ones who, along with Marvel Productions (yea, that Marvel), brought you most of the toy-based TV animated shows that were all the rage at the time. Specifically, they brought you the Hasbro-based franchises: GI Joe, Transformers, My Little Pony, Jem and the Holograms, etc. They weren’t alone in this. Filmation brought us He Man and She-Ra. Rankin-Bass brought us Thundercats. Tonka delivered the Go Bots.
Now, I know that it’s popular on the Net to shit all over these shows today. Yea, they lack the sleek, fluid vector animation and deeper characterization and plotlines of today’s versions. Yea, the production values were low even by the standards of the time. They animated on the 27’s and recycled the same sequences ad nauseum. Hair color or uniforms could change from scene to scene. The writing could be pretty hack. Whatever. The same can be said of The Flintstones and Scooby Doo, but those are “beloved classics”. Even the hallowed Looney Tunes were getting pretty cheap and limited in the ‘60s before getting abandoned entirely.
So why do we crap on GI Joe and give The Flintstones a pass? Why do we cringe at the word “Cobrala” but laugh adoringly at the camp of “The Great Gazoo?”. Probably because it all aligned to a changing time in both western culture and our own developing lives.
The truth is that the economics of animation are a bitch. The economics of TV animation from the ‘50s to the ‘90s frankly didn’t allow every show to be animated to Richard Williams levels of fluid realism. It wasn’t until the late ‘80s and early ‘90s that computer advances and improving skills allowed for cost-competitive animation, and even then, not every studio was able to buy a $20 million CHERNABOG. By ‘82 and the disastrous Animators’ Strike, most animation had left the US for cheaper studios offshore. By 1988 they’d gotten increasingly good. Some, like Ghibli, were outdoing even the Americans and Europeans. Half of the quality issues in the ‘80s were from Sunbow trying desperately to keep ahead of the ever-increasing costs of Asian animation by going to newer and less experienced studios. It was a “race to the bottom” and a death spiral, and it undoubtedly soured people’s perceptions.
But I, for one, am not going to pile on the Hate[1]. The truth is that I loved the Transformers and I still fucking love them. Yea, there’s a tinge of irony to the enjoyment (I can see the camp now) and I admit to my own nostalgia glasses, but I like them none the less. I don’t care that Starscream is a whiny bitch. I love that about him. As a foil for Megatron, he’s brilliant. Megatron comes across as that much more of a threat because of it. And it makes Starscream’s assassination of Megatron in the Movie that much more impactful. “Holy shit…he actually did it!”
So, the Sunbow and Filmation productions (etc.) all hold a special place in my heart. They were great shows for what they were: entertainment that knew their audience. Yea, they got me to buy their toys directly rather than pawning that role off on the Commercial Sponsors (My Little Pony advertised during “wholesome” Muppet Babies too). But I loved and I still love the characters: Optimus Prime, Megatron, the Dinobots, Duke, Flint, Destro, Snake Eyes…these were and are great characters. I’d put Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow alongside Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader as the founding characters of my childhood. And thanks to Hasbro and Kenner I literally could have Luke and Snake Eyes team up to battle Darth Vader and Cobra Commander’s evil trans-dimensional alliance.
Sunbow and Lucasfilm can sell me that level of awesome any day.
(Image source “jdtoonart.blogspot.com”)
So, what happened to Sunbow? Well, frankly Disney happened to it. And yea, blaming Disney for everything is as cliché as blaming Sunbow or heavy metal or D&D for youth violence. But in this case Disney actually is partly responsible. Disney bought Marvel, and the leadership, in particular CCO Jim Henson, wasn’t interested in keeping the Sunbow lines going. Now, some like to blame Henson’s peacenik nature, and yea, that was definitely a factor. But to be honest, it was primarily a financial decision. Simply put, kids like me just weren’t tuning in to GI Joe and Transformers or My Little Pony any more. “Bronies” weren’t a thing, and any male regardless of age who watched My Little Pony would be referred for psychiatric evaluation. We were “growing up” and moving on, often at the point of a gun. Neurotic Teenage Dick Me wouldn’t be caught dead watching a “kid’s show” like Transformers. And in the late 1980s yea, there totally was a stigma to watching cartoons as an adult, especially as an adult male. Nerds, Geeks, and Otaku were the targets of harassment and even assault back then. If you wanted to see A Small World or even Akira in the theaters you’d better be on a date. Nowadays everyone watches cartoons thanks to people like Matt Groening and, yes, Jim Henson. But the 1980s were a very different time[2].
So, as we grew up, we did our best to deny to everyone, especially ourselves, that the old Sunbow or Filmation toy-driven classics were anything more than “juvenile crap that we outgrew.” It pains me to say those words today just as it did back then. Thank the Maker of SSRIs that I can talk about it now. So rather than admit that we were fickle little shits driven by popular opinion, it was convenient for us know-it-all teens and twenty-somethings to cite their toy-driven nature and low production values as the reason why we abandoned them, not us succumbing to peer pressure to “grow up and conform”.
We frankly did the same thing with Star Wars in the late ‘80s. No one wanted to be the guy in 10th grade with a Han Solo shirt even as we unironically wore Batman shirts because Warner Brothers and JC Penny’s assured us that it was cool. It was only the later Star Wars novels that allowed us to justify continued interest in the Galaxy Far, Far Away in our 20s. Maybe had Hasbro thought to produce an adult novel series for GI Joe, maybe something like the Marvel comics that willingly addressed adult issues like PTSD, then we’d be holding Sunbow up as a worthy maker of art, not just an amoral bunch of greedy Ad Men who sold valueless schlock to stupid kids.
So, yea, I can look back at the old shows and see their limitations, but rather than pile on the snark like everybody else on the Net I choose to remember what I loved about these series. They were cool. They were full of adventure. Snake Eyes was badass. Grimlock rocked. Lion-O was awesome. They even taught me that girls could kick ass, like Scarlet and Teela.
Even the cheesy PSAs, clearly just there to check the “redeeming value” block, came in handy. To this day I know just what to do when my friend gets a nose bleed (pinch your nose and lean your head forward!). Knowing really is half the battle.
So honestly, looking back at the end of the Sunbow Years is a bittersweet moment for me. It was like my own childhood had faded away with that cheery yellow sun on a blue background logo.
[1] Flint-style Beret tip @Kaiser Chris for reminding me to make sure that the aspects of the old Toy-Driven ‘80s cartoons that we loved get mention as well. I liked GI Joe and Transformers best of all.
[2] I’m only slightly exaggerating here. Seriously, the ‘80s were a rough time to be a nerd or geek.
- Status