Nobody Expects: The Spanish Revolution

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Onerom, Aug 2, 2019.

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  1. TheKutKu Well-Known Member

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    I think that yes if you have more updates on the Great War it nah be better to continue working on that, although maybe you need to take a break from a subject.
     
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  2. Rattigan Well-Known Member

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    A bit late on this but I wondered if 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas" might be cooler. It goes off the official title of the monarch pre-WW1.
     
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  3. Onerom Orchard Lord

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    No, you're not late at all, this TL is in its very infancy yet and I'm very thankfull for your contribution because I haven't managed to get people much involved lately XD.

    And the name, I love it, it's going to be the canon one.

    And, @TheKutKu, I think I'll follow your advice and keep working on the GW and the aftermath before elsewere, maybe doing small off-topic updates if I get burned.
     
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  4. Israel_Dan the Man Well-Known Member

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    Excellent timeline! Easily on par with the best! Especially the Great War!
     
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  5. Threadmarks: Russian Revolution

    Onerom Orchard Lord

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    Thank you very much!

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    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  6. Israel_Dan the Man Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome! Could you possibly do a list by the countries with the largest economies and populations?
     
  7. Threadmarks: Largest Countries by GDP (nominal) and Population

    Onerom Orchard Lord

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    Note: information referred to the United Kingdom includes all Dominions and responsible territories; Japan includes Korea and Taiwan; France includes the Algerian departments but not the territories under colonial status; Italy includes the autonomous republics of Tunisia and Libya.

    For the sake of simplicity (both for me and the audience), ITL US$ are mostly equivalent to OTL US$.
     
  8. TheKutKu Well-Known Member

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    Awesome to see that argentina is in the top 10! I’d love to learn more about this argentina, being the wealthiest hispanophone country (as it was irl intermittently between the start of the spanish civil war and the 1955 coup) and must give it a significant soft power and cultural influence, Buenos Aires must br the single most important hispanophone city. Also what are its relations with the « poorer » Brazil? Is it « leading » South America politically?

    Woah, if my estimate isn’t too wrong the territories of IRL Russia must have around 240 million people, I guess it had a much more stable 20th century after the revolution unlike ours.

    Also quick question about the commonwealth, is kwa-Zulu natal separate or merged with the cape? Is it rich? Does it have a significant African refugee population from its neighbours?

    Also i’m Surprised that the ottoman (or their successor state) doesn’t appear on the list, between the large population and the oil and gas wealth I had hope it would have developped significantly and be a rich country
     
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  9. Onerom Orchard Lord

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    In terms of nominal GDP, yes, Argentina is the wealthiest Hispanic country, slightly ahead of Spain, but by GDP per capita Texas beats both. It had both a more stable XIXth and XXth centuries, save for a brief but important civil war just after achieving independence, and so constitutional republicanism and federalism are well entrenched and caudillismo didn't emerge. British influence was strong from the republic's inception (if you go to the first post QBAM, you can see the British Territory of Colonia on the mouth of the Plate), so much that, in the Empire, Argentina is usually talked about as the informal Dominion. As such, even though Argentina could possibly wield significant influence worldwide, it usually follows British lead (no ¡Malvinas argentinas! here, the most chauvinistic reclaim Colonia but most don't really press the issue, similar to OTL Gibraltar and Spain).

    Buenos Aires is one of the largest Spanish-speaking cities in the world (not The largest, I believe it is Manila but not sure yet), and certainly it sports a considerable influence (although ITL greater Spanish immigration makes it slightly less Italianish). However, with Argentina firmly in the British sphere, other South American countries tend to oppose her and align with the US, in a kind of South American Great Game between the UK and the US. About the relations with Brazil, when you say poorer you aren't mistaken at all: Brazil has suffered since the 1890s her own century of humiliation, and Argentina (and the UK) have a lot to do with it. For now, let's say that Argentina has treated the unstable post-Empire Brazil as her own backyard, even if there's a bigger boy in the room who claims he's the one entitled to it.

    In fact, it's closer to 280 million, which is impressive but keep in mind that this Russia didn't suffer the Civil War, War Communism and collectivizations and subsequent famines, the accelerated industrialization and urbanization, secularization and expansion of women rights and contraception and most importantly the Nazi slaugther that OTL USSR. It's been stable in a similar way Francoist Spain was stable, but certainly was (is) an unpleasant place to live if you're non-Russian, women, leftist or oppose the regime in general.

    The Dominion of Natal is separate from the Dominion of Cape of Good Hope, and while it has a strong economy with Durban being the busiest port of Africa, it's far from being what an OTL Westerner would consider rich, with rampant inequality and poverty among Afro-Natalians due to the legacy of colonialism and a well alive racist attitude among Euro-Natalians, aside from institutional affirmative-action policies directed at Europeans that further hinder African progress. African refugees from the OFS and Transvaal usually prefer to relocate to the Cape, which is the least hostile Dominion towards Africans, and Natalia has a harsh policy of eviction of unauthorized foreign nationals.

    One could think so, but although the Ottoman Empire was a promising country until the 1960s, since then it's economy has suffered the effects of the Dutch disease (if I am understanding the right way how it functions): the economy centered around gas and oil to the detriment of the other sectors, a large influx of foreign capital led to an appretiation of the ottoman currency and importation became much easier while exportation was severily hurt (except for the said resources). Couple it with the development of clientelism and political corruption, economic colonization by foreign corporations and the result is a stagnant country. If someone with economy knowledge sees that this is a nonsense, I am totally open to change it, as I said doing this table was at a high risk of having to be amended/retconned.
     
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  10. Threadmarks: Nations of North America, 2019

    Onerom Orchard Lord

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  11. Alex Thompson New Member

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    This timeline is really well done! I can definitely tell a lot of time and effort has (and most likely will) be put into it. I will be for sure watching this. :)
     
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  12. Neptune IN BAD TASTE

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    What's the deal with Austria? Did it remain neutral in the Great War?
     
  13. TheKutKu Well-Known Member

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    Awesome!

    Are there some political movements to split Canada and make western canada a different Dominion from eastern Canada?
     
  14. King Jasper Well-Known Member

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    What happened to Texas to keep it out of the union? Is it majority hispanic or something?
     
  15. Onerom Orchard Lord

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    Than you very much, I'm doing my best!

    Yes, the Habsburg Monarchy was a member of the League of the Three Emperors, whose declared objective was to preserve stability in Europe (read, mantain the conservative status quo and oppose radical liberalism and nationalism). Although they supported the French position and the Pope during the Roman Crisis, when France invaded the Rhineland and the war begun the leadership of the Empire felt that joining against the fellow German nations and Italy was a political suicide, and sought neutrality.

    With the distance of time, the decision is regarded as a brilliant manouver that allowed the Empire to survive intact for another 40 years.

    In Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba there's a slight feeling of alienation, but less than IOTL because this Canada is less Eastern-oriented due to the lack of the Maritimes. In British Columbia there's a small movement demanding separate Dominionship due to a combination of being the only province with English as the sole official language, alienation from Ottawa and the desire of stronger relations with the American West Coast.

    Yes, Texas is an Hispanic country and has a radically diferent origin, you can know more about it here:

     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 7:22 AM
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  16. TheKutKu Well-Known Member

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    So the Austro Hungarian empire managed to survive intact until the 50s? That’s impressive.
     
  17. Threadmarks: 'A Minute to Pray'

    Onerom Orchard Lord

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    Yes, the Empire survived (well, it can be argued that the Empire of Austria and the Habsburg as Emperors have survived until the current time) although not the Ausgleich, the Great War put much strain on the Empire (and other neutral nations not directly involved in the War) to the structure to continue the same. I'll get to it (some day, I hope), and to the Austrian crisis of 1948 that lead to the current frontiers in most of Southeastern Europe.

    And now, to continue with the Great War thematic, I have tried something that, while not giving you information about actual events ITL, I think can give some hints of the mindset of people ITL, and it's a bit of pop-cultural history.

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    Fan-made map of 1942 Europe as of the beginning of 'A Minute to Pray'.
     
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  18. Threadmarks: Revolutions of 1909-1916

    Onerom Orchard Lord

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    Guys, I have ended my vacations and today I started med school again, so updates will become more spaced as I will have other things to focus. I'll keep answering questions that may arise and I'll try to make at least a biggish update (read: something above a wikibox) about every two weeks, but I can´t promise it.

    Also, I think that with this I have covered in broad lines the important things of the Great War for the TL skeleton, and can shift the focus to other toppics; of course, there's much more lore already thought to it if you want, and I'll cover it (eventually), but I thought these the minimum necessary to understand the world.

    And one last thing: despite the previous 'A Minute to Pray' being just a silly thing that crossed my mind and I thought interesting as a this world's blend-of-TL191-and-Kaiserreich analogue, in fact I have been (unwantedly and obsesively) expanding the concept mentally, and believe I can flesh it in the future and achieve a cool AH-inside-AH. So just that, if you liked it I can delve into the concept deeper (including both the TL of AMtP and its effects on the cultural world of NE); if not, let me know to exile these thoughts of my mind and focus on things that *actually happened* ITTL.​

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