Same argument. Both the major comic companies work via Eternal Status Quo. Best way to avoid that is keep Gargoyles as its own thing, NOT part of some corporation's shared fictional universe. It's perfect as is - it would utterly suck as part of either Marvel or DC's stables. It'd lose everything that made it unique, Xanatos'd decay to the level of Lex Luthor or Norman Osborne, there'd be no character development, other writers would mess it all up...
A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
- Start date
- Status
Same argument. Both the major comic companies work via Eternal Status Quo. Best way to avoid that is keep Gargoyles as its own thing, NOT part of some corporation's shared fictional universe. It's perfect as is - it would utterly suck as part of either Marvel or DC's stables. It'd lose everything that made it unique, Xanatos'd decay to the level of Lex Luthor or Norman Osborne, there'd be no character development, other writers would mess it all up...
I know that movie was a landmark for animation quality and totally changed a lot of people's opinions internationally about the use of animation as a medium, but am I in such a minority for not liking that movie? I mean, can anyone remember what it was even about?
In context of this timeline I'm fine with it existing and being distributed as OTL. I'm rather more interested in how the Disney Animation Department reacts to the bar being raised on animated cinematography and if they try to directly compete/surpass it on technical merit.
Or alternatively, the reverse, a a universe that starts with Gargoyles and has other cartoons added into it.
Burn, Burn it with fire and nuke it from orbit it's the only way to be sure
Edit: you have forgot that with Miller, Elisa from Detective will become a prostitute...damn now i need a shower
marathag
Banned
It's both better, and worse, if you read the Mangas first. Roughly, its about losing your humanity.
Think of it like _The Big Sleep_ a bunch of cool scenes stitched together to make an incomprehensible plot that makes little sense when you really think over it.
Nah, she might not necessarily be a prostitute...she'll just be drawn in her underwear for no apparent reason, with lots of close-ups on her ass. And she'll be really shallow.
...No, I haven't gotten over how he treated Vicky Vale, what of it...
Well, if you're interested in that, then having Hollywood Pictures, who is a rival company in this timeline, distribute Akira would have the added bonus of making the Disney Suits worry for the tandem of Michael Eisner and ABC, while also making Jim Henson push farther for the inclusion of anime in Walt Disney Entertainment.
No, you're not the only one.
The Mangas, at least, seemed pretty coherent. The movie seemed to be in name only...
TBH, I think the original Ghost in the Shell was a far better and more ground-breaking movie...
Image the Star Wars outrage for the new trilogy...but with real motivation this time (sorry but Liefeld is an hack and Miller had become the crazy uncle that was once cool but now need an intervention)
marathag
Banned
That, and recommending _Trigun_ along with _Cowboy Bebop_ for getting people interested in anime,for 20+ years now.
Gargoyles actually kind of had its own little universe planned out, Wiseman and co had numerous spin off ideas but none ever got off the ground
This Black Cauldron sounds fantastic, creepy and amazing. Gurgi particularly.
"live action production Caravan of Courage for Lucasfilm in 1984" directed by John Korty - does this do better with Korty in charge? Is it the start of Star Wars on TV?
Ah Saturday Morning cartoons- I never really had that in the UK as we saw most of the famous ones like He-Man, Thundercats, Transformers etc as part of the 3-5.45 children's slots the two main channels put out. There was cartoons on Sat morning as part of Swop Shop or similar, but I don't remember what!
The Merchenaries - this sounds EPIC. Nice of them to actually make toys of it for charity. I can see Henson and Disney's viewpoint on the 'Merch Shows' but Disney may have to buckle eventually. Good on them on keeping animation alive and in the US though.
The original Ghost in the Shell is amazing, and as much as Akira is good, I prefer Ghost.
Be nice if TMNT does not end up at Nicoldonian but somewhere interested in telling good stories rather than rebooting them every few years to cash in on a new wave of youngsters. Perhaps Gargoyles and TMNT could end up with Wiseman and Eastman/Laird under Henson's wings?
"live action production Caravan of Courage for Lucasfilm in 1984" directed by John Korty - does this do better with Korty in charge? Is it the start of Star Wars on TV?
Ah Saturday Morning cartoons- I never really had that in the UK as we saw most of the famous ones like He-Man, Thundercats, Transformers etc as part of the 3-5.45 children's slots the two main channels put out. There was cartoons on Sat morning as part of Swop Shop or similar, but I don't remember what!
The Merchenaries - this sounds EPIC. Nice of them to actually make toys of it for charity. I can see Henson and Disney's viewpoint on the 'Merch Shows' but Disney may have to buckle eventually. Good on them on keeping animation alive and in the US though.
The original Ghost in the Shell is amazing, and as much as Akira is good, I prefer Ghost.
Be nice if TMNT does not end up at Nicoldonian but somewhere interested in telling good stories rather than rebooting them every few years to cash in on a new wave of youngsters. Perhaps Gargoyles and TMNT could end up with Wiseman and Eastman/Laird under Henson's wings?
It probably doesn't help that the manga was still being written at the time, and that the movie basically squeezed the first and (what would become) the last volume together whilst trying to somehow link the two despite not having enough time to squeeze all the other volumes in. The movie's development is also a curious one, given that the mangaka ended up being the co-screenwriter and director of his own manga's anime adaptation whilst still writing the manga. The mangaka would even go on to say that the direction the movie went in massively shaped the direction of the manga.
Maybe Disney Channel or Cartoon Network.
I love that idea makes me want Disney to buy Mirage and make this a thing, maybe even build a whole universe around.
So in other words the best way to save the anime is to not rush the production?
I can behind this idea.
Could you elaborate on this?
To get a basic idea what it's like just imagine watching those cartoons in the morning eating super sweet cereal surrounded by actions figures.
You'd probably influence the development of the manga if you mess with the movie. The manga might end up having differences TTL compared to OTL if, say, it only went into production after the manga was finished, which wouldn't be until 1990 (or possibly 1989 TTL, if we consider the hiatus the mangaka took at the time to work on the movie). Whether or not that ends up with a more plot-coherent movie TTL, and whether production would go as well as it did OTL, I wouldn't know. Was just noting that by messing with the movie, you also mess with the manga, that's all.
According to Wiseman, Eisner had the team develop possible ideas for spin offs.. Ideas included a spin off with Brooklyn on a 40 year journey, a Suicide Squad style spin off for the villains, a future style spin off in the year 2198, prequels for King Arthur and the Scottish clan, and a new Olympians spin off. All of these had backdoor pilots.
Fun fact, on the comics crossover front. There is a series of four crossover plays between Gargloyes, Spectacular Spider-Man and Young Justice, that where written by Wiseman and preformed at cons by some of the original casts a few years ago.
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The Mickey Glove
Chapter 15: A New Kingdom Arises
Excerpt from The King is Dead: The Walt Disney Company After Walt Disney, an Unauthorized History by Sue Donym and Arman N. Said
Frank B. Wells surveyed his new kingdom, and found it wanting in many respects. The studios were a mixed success. Fantasia Films had two blockbusters in Ghostbusters and Back to the Future. The performance of Splash and Never Cry Wolf had been impressive, boosting Miller’s new Hyperion Pictures to a prominent place in Hollywood even despite the poor performance of Ladyhawke and The Razor’s Edge. Numerous successes had been achieved on television both on network TV and the Disney Channel and there were plans in place for a new Hyperion channel. Finally, the Muppets in one form or another were still proving profitable on both the big & little screens and even Off-Off Broadway. But revenues were still anemic for animation. The parks and hotels also needed a major fiscal overhaul. And the company had over $500 million in debt following the ACC takeover attempt, and at 14% interest.
Wells met with CFO Mike Bagnall to look through the finances. Bagnall recalls being impressed with the new President and COO, relaying later that Frank was “very intelligent, very thorough, and really understood finance[1].” Wells, in turn, was impressed with a young Vice President named Stan Kinsey, who was participating in the impromptu meeting. Wells needed a “right hand”, someone who could take the pulse of the individual component departments and find ways to drive efficiencies. Wells took Kinsey aside and asked him his opinions on the state of finance in the company. Kinsey hit him with a frank and in-depth analysis of the situation and even presented an established plan for reducing overhead by 30%. Wells almost immediately put Kinsey in for a promotion, ultimately making him the Executive Vice President of Operations and his personal apprentice[2].
Wells and Kinsey decided to take things one at a time, and go after “low hanging fruit”. First on the list was the parks, in particular their exceedingly-low ticket and parking prices. Despite some initial pushback from Outdoor Entertainment President Dick Nunis, who towed the Old Disney line that increasing ticket prices would hurt attendance and increasing parking fees would “present a bad first impression”, Wells convinced the board to raise the tickets, if only for a short exploratory period. Despite the fears of the Old Disney crowd, there was no measurable drop in attendance. Instead, the move generated a significant increase in daily, monthly, and ultimately yearly revenues. It also spurred a corresponding increase in stock value, helping to allay some residual fears of a second takeover attempt and help justify the investments of the White Knights. The studio profits, particularly the Fantasia releases, combined with the increased park revenues, went a long way towards paying down the debt.
Other cost-cutting, revenue-generating measures would prove more challenging. Wells considered some direct competitive assignments between employees with the winner getting to keep their job, but first Kinsey and then Henson and Miller strongly opposed such measures as “out of keeping with the Disney spirit.” Instead, Kinsey pointed to the animation studios as a model to follow, pointing out the huge increase in productivity over the past few years under Henson. Wells, however, was of the opposite option, noting that overhead had increased and that profit margins remained far lower than in other areas of the company. Wells expressed an interest in eliminating the animation department entirely and focusing on the far more profitable Fantasia and Hyperion, but the mere suggestion was treated as blasphemy.
While the studio was hailing The Black Cauldron as a success, $50 million against a $22 million budget, Wells dug further and determined that this was only counting the proximate, short-term costs. By his reckoning, Cauldron had cost well over $40 million to make and, factoring in marketing and distribution, was therefore a net loss! He noted that, by comparison, The Care Bears Movie was made for $2 million and grossed over $34 million. Roy E. Disney and Henson pointed out that the Care Bears animation was poor-quality and was noticeably jumpy from the slow frame rate and repeating of cels to cut costs, and tried to point out the smooth, living quality of the Disney feature, but Wells remained unimpressed. Wells still wanted to find ways to cut costs at animation.
Kinsey used the opportunity to push the DATA initiative, noting how the per-frame costs on the more heavily computer animated Where the Wild Things Are were notably lower than the previous nearly all-hand-drawn movies. This was partially true, since the use of computer-assisted backgrounds allowed for three-dimensional effects without needing several layered background cels and further allowed for backgrounds to be reused with slight changes to imply motion or even a different location without rebuilding it all from scratch. In truth, though, much of the reduced cost on Wild Things was due to the style of the animation, which was directly based on Sendak’s use of flat colors, thick outlines, and straight-line shading in the original book, all of which could be duplicated on cels far quicker and cheaper than the more layered, naturalistic images on Cauldron.
Wells also opposed the production of the animated Shorts, finding that their returns were negligible. Henson pushed back, citing their use as a training ground, talent scouting mechanism, and prestige generator, noting the sheer number of Emmys and Oscars piling up in the display cases from the Shorts. For the time being Miller sided with Roy and Henson, but Wells made his point. There was an almost unspoken implication that Wild Things needed to perform well and turn a good profit, or animation may face serious cuts.
Hyperion Pictures, on the other hand, was turning a good profit with two successes under its belt. One, Splash, was a major hit. Even so, Wells and Kinsey worked hard to reduce overhead, particularly on the less-well-performing Disney Live Action Studios side, whose biggest hits were either outside productions distributed via Fantasia Films or the Muppets.
A final point of underperformance with respect to revenue-generation was the hotels. Disneyland and Disney World were both missing out on huge potential revenues due to a lack of on-site rooms. With Marriott now a major shareholder with board representation, the pressure was on to live up to Ray Watson’s perhaps hasty promise to make a hotel deal with the company, which board member Al Checchi not-so-subtly reminded them had been made at every opportunity. The first meeting on the subject had been surprisingly contentious. Dick Nunis was reiterating the old Card Walker canard about Disney not being in the hotel business. Al Checchi was pushing back.
Marriott presented several planned hotels to add to Disneyland and Walt Disney World, but Henson remained unimpressed by the designs. “It’s a box,” he said of one traditional glass-sided modernist building.
“What did you want, Jim,” asked Checchi, sarcastically, “the Roman Colosseum?”
“Can we do that?” asked Henson. Wells was unsure if he was being sincere, dryly sarcastic, or simply ignoring the insult.
Either way, Chairman Ray Watson reminded everyone that the company still held a contract with John Tishman to design and build two hotels, which had yet to be exercised. Bill Marriott, Jr., over the phone, suggested that his company could buy out the contract. Tishman’s designs, created by architect Alan Lapidus, were looked upon more favorably by Henson, but still, he felt, “weren’t Disney.” When pressed on what he meant, Henson, who had visited Walt Disney World numerous times, described the experience of the two existing hotels, the Polynesian and the Contemporary. Leaning way, way back in his chair, Henson described the latter hotel as “a space station” where you could board and depart on a “space shuttle” (the monorail) and then fly back in to dock “like an astronaut.” He described the Polynesian as “an island escape” that was actually in reach, a “trip to Tahiti in America,” describing it as “a magical place.”
Each hotel was tied, per Walt’s vision, to one of the “lands” of Disney: The Contemporary to Tomorrowland and the Polynesian to Fantasyland. To Henson, the hotels had to be both a part of Disney itself and an experience in their own right. “An attraction you can sleep in.”
“Like the Roman Colosseum,” said Checchi, this time without obvious sarcasm.
“Sure,” said Henson, suddenly very animated, hands flying in broad gestures and speaking to the air rather than anyone at the table. “Or a Viking longhouse, or a Welsh castle, or a Japanese pagoda, or even a pirate ship.” He went on to describe how they could tie them directly to the World Showcase or other attractions, or even “have traditional dancers, like at the Polynesian.”
Wells still had no idea how to approach the dreamer Henson, whose far-reaching creative impulses clearly clashed with his own fiscal conservancy. And yet this was exactly the type of outside-of-the-box creativity that Wells knew a creative company like Disney needed. He convinced the board to give Henson a few days to “whip up some concepts.” Henson went almost immediately to Disney’s chief architect Wing Chao, who took him to see the designs the Imagineers had made for the Victorian-inspired Grand Floridian Resort, which was tied to Main Street, USA. This was exactly what Henson was looking for.
With the Floridian and other fantastic designs under his arm, Henson excitedly dragged Chao in with him to present the designs. The Marriott faction scoffed at the implicit cost of the Floridian in particular, as did Tishman, who again lobbied for Lapidus. A three-way compromise was reached where Tishman and Marriott would split the construction costs for both the Grand Floridian and the Lapidus-designed Fair Seas Resorts, the latter following a flowing, stepped modern design typical of Lapidus’ work[3], and then share the proceeds three-ways for ten years, after which the rights would revert to Disney and Marriott. A third hotel, the Roman-inspired Villa Romana Resort, which resembled “Pompeii in its heyday” and had twice-daily “volcanic eruptions” in the lobby and restaurant[4], was a silent nod to the Colosseum comment and was designed by the Imagineers and built at Disneyland. Once completed in the late ‘80s, all three hotels regularly sold out their rooms nearly year-round, providing further revenue streams.
After weeks of discussions like these and a top-to-bottom study of the company’s bureaucratic pipelines, communications flows, overhead, expenses, and returns, Wells concluded that a structural reorganization was necessary. He and Kinsey met with Watson and Miller and ultimately convinced them of the need for the reorg. A special committee was formed to develop the plan, chaired by Wells and organized by Kinsey. Ultimately, they presented a plan to the board: the overarching structure of the company would become known as the Walt Disney Corporation with four subordinate organizations to be called Walt Disney Studios (which would include animation, effects, puppetry, nature documentaries, and the Fantasia Films label), Hyperion Studios (which would absorb most of the live action productions and Buena Vista Distribution as well as music and books), Walt Disney Recreation (which would include the parks and hotels), and Walt Disney Engineering (which included the old WDI plus the core of the Henson Creature Shop).
Henson, who’d been speaking up and interjecting his ideas more and more since the hostile takeover attempt, pushed back on the names, feeling that “Corporation” was too cold and, well, corporate, and also noting its resemblance to the word “corpse”. He recommended the more inviting Walt Disney Entertainment Company, noting that “company” seemed friendlier and more intimate than “corporation”. He further suggested the name Walt Disney Engineering be changed to the jauntier Walt Disney Imagineering Workshop, noting with a chuckle that you could call it the “I-Works” in honor of the artist Ub Iwerks, who first drew Mickey Mouse. He even surprised Miller when he offered no resistance to the Creature Shop being absorbed by the I-Works and taken out of his direct supervision.
Henson went further. Looking at the overhead slide of the new organizational chart, which showed the central circle of the parent company and the four radiating spokes of the child organizations, Henson asked to borrow a marker and promptly outlined the whole thing with a quick sketch of Mickey Mouse’s iconic four-fingered glove. The nods of the board made it clear that the idea would stick. In the spirit of Disney whimsey, the new organizational structure would officially be called the “Mickey Glove”, with the parent company being the “hand” and each of the child organizations being the “fingers”. Henson would retain the Chair and Presidency of Walt Disney Studios, which since it contained the “heart and soul” of the company, Animation, became the “index finger”. The I-Works, to be led by Chair and President Carl Bongirno, would, after heavy lobbying by John Hench and Marty Sklar, become the “thumb”, since it “interacted with all of the other fingers” through its animatronics and design. Hyperion Studios would retain Tom Wilhite as Chair and President and, in keeping with their “adult” reputation, gladly accepted the position of “middle finger”. This left Walt Disney Recreation with the leftover “little finger”, which annoyed Chair and President Dick Nunis. Nunis was ultimately placated when it was pointed out that, since it was Mickey’s right hand and he was “waving” to the viewer, this made WD Recreation the “first finger” on the chart.
The Mickey Glove concept played well with employees, fans, and investors alike, the latter of whom saw the reorganization as a sign that management was open to taking bold new steps in business as well as art. Stock prices increased 2.5% upon the announcement of the reorg, and the “Mickey Glove” concept gained lots of attention in the press precisely because it didn’t reflect the standard dry corporate thinking of most large companies. It was, most felt, a sign that this was a New Magic Kingdom.
Wells, however, was not completely satisfied. The Disney board, now up to 16 members, was getting unwieldy. While such board numbers had been common in the past, the growing consensus among business experts was that such large board sizes led to groupthink and stagnation, exactly the issue that he was hired to reverse. Action would be necessary to remedy this situation.
The Board of Directors for the Walt Disney Entertainment Company, Spring 1985:
Ray Watson, Chairman (former head of the Irvine Company)
Ronald “Ron” Miller, CEO
Frank Wells, President and COO
James M. “Jim” Henson, CCO, President, Walt Disney Studios, & Creative Director
Richard “Dick” Nunis, President, Disney Outdoor Entertainment
Roy E. Disney, Vice President, Walt Disney Animation Studios (head of Shamrock Holdings)
Al Gottesman (President, Henson Arts Holdings)
Dianne Disney Miller (Partner, Retlaw Enterprises)
Peter Dailey (former US ambassador to Ireland and Roy Disney’s brother-in-law)
Philip Hawley (Carter Hawley Hale)
Samuel Williamson (senior partner, Hufstedler, Miller, Carson, & Beardsley)
Caroline Ahmanson (head and founder of Caroline Leonetti Ltd.; Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco)
Charles Cobb (CEO of Arvida Corp.; representing the interests of Bass Brothers)
Alfred Attilio “Al” Checchi (representing Marriott International)
Advisory Board Members (non-voting, ad-hoc attendance):
E. Cardon “Card” Walker, Chairman Emeritus
Donn Tatum, Chairman Emeritus
Sid Bass (CEO of Bass Brothers Enterprises)
Steven Spielberg (Partner, Amblin Entertainment)
Steve Jobs (CEO & President of Apple Computer, Inc.)
George Lucas (CEO of Lucasfilm, Ltd.)
J. Willard “Bill” Marriott, Jr. (CEO of Marriott International)
The Disney Executive Committee:
Ronald “Ron” Miller, CEO
Frank Wells, President and COO
James M. “Jim” Henson, CCO and President, Walt Disney Studios
Richard “Dick” Nunis, President, Disney Outdoor Entertainment
Thomas “Tom” Wilhite, President, Hyperion Pictures
Roy E. Disney, Vice President, Walt Disney Animation Studios
Stocks at a Glance: Walt Disney Entertainment (DIS)
March 14th, 1985
Stock price: $121.27
Major Shareholders: Henson family (19.2%), Roy E. Disney (13.4%), Disney-Miller family (12.2%), Sid Bass (9.6%), Bill Marriott (6.3%), Amblin Entertainment (1.3%), Apple Comp. (0.7%), Lucasfilm Ltd. (0.42%), Suspected “Knights Errant” (4.6%), Others (32%)
Outstanding shares: 37.6 million
[1] Compare with Bagnall’s experience with Eisner, where Eisner’s understanding of basic finance was (according to Bagnall) so poor that Bagnall didn’t much bother to conceal his contempt.
[2] Wells was impressed by Kinsey in our timeline too, and for a while Kinsey was his right-hand man. Eventually, the hypercompetitive and negatively charged “winner takes all” culture developing in the new Eisner/Wells Disney proved distasteful for Kinsey, who was also annoyed that his CAPS project was being summarily dismissed. Kinsey in our timeline teamed up with the equally disgruntled Don Iwerks and the two left to found Iwerks Entertainment.
[3] Compare to our timeline where Eisner, much like Henson, pushed for out-of-the-box ideas, in particular a giant Mickey Mouse shaped hotel that would straddle the main road at Disneyland “like the Colossus of Rhodes”. While dismissed as impractical, the sheer outside-of-the-box audacity of the idea impressed people. Ultimately, Eisner, who severely disliked the Lapidus designs and dismissed them as “schlock”, went instead with trendy postmodern architect Michael Graves for the first new hotels. Graves’ postmodern, pyramidal, fountain-topped design was accepted despite Tishman’s resistance, and Eisner pushed to “lighten them up” further, adding giant swan and dolphin statues on top. The results were the Swan and Dolphin hotels, which are either clever postmodern whimsey or campy, kitschy eyesores, depending on whom you ask.
[4] Sort of like what happens at Margaritaville in Orlando, but with more visual show and simulated lava flowing from the walls, sort of like in Disney Sea.
Excerpt from The King is Dead: The Walt Disney Company After Walt Disney, an Unauthorized History by Sue Donym and Arman N. Said
Frank B. Wells surveyed his new kingdom, and found it wanting in many respects. The studios were a mixed success. Fantasia Films had two blockbusters in Ghostbusters and Back to the Future. The performance of Splash and Never Cry Wolf had been impressive, boosting Miller’s new Hyperion Pictures to a prominent place in Hollywood even despite the poor performance of Ladyhawke and The Razor’s Edge. Numerous successes had been achieved on television both on network TV and the Disney Channel and there were plans in place for a new Hyperion channel. Finally, the Muppets in one form or another were still proving profitable on both the big & little screens and even Off-Off Broadway. But revenues were still anemic for animation. The parks and hotels also needed a major fiscal overhaul. And the company had over $500 million in debt following the ACC takeover attempt, and at 14% interest.
Wells met with CFO Mike Bagnall to look through the finances. Bagnall recalls being impressed with the new President and COO, relaying later that Frank was “very intelligent, very thorough, and really understood finance[1].” Wells, in turn, was impressed with a young Vice President named Stan Kinsey, who was participating in the impromptu meeting. Wells needed a “right hand”, someone who could take the pulse of the individual component departments and find ways to drive efficiencies. Wells took Kinsey aside and asked him his opinions on the state of finance in the company. Kinsey hit him with a frank and in-depth analysis of the situation and even presented an established plan for reducing overhead by 30%. Wells almost immediately put Kinsey in for a promotion, ultimately making him the Executive Vice President of Operations and his personal apprentice[2].
Wells and Kinsey decided to take things one at a time, and go after “low hanging fruit”. First on the list was the parks, in particular their exceedingly-low ticket and parking prices. Despite some initial pushback from Outdoor Entertainment President Dick Nunis, who towed the Old Disney line that increasing ticket prices would hurt attendance and increasing parking fees would “present a bad first impression”, Wells convinced the board to raise the tickets, if only for a short exploratory period. Despite the fears of the Old Disney crowd, there was no measurable drop in attendance. Instead, the move generated a significant increase in daily, monthly, and ultimately yearly revenues. It also spurred a corresponding increase in stock value, helping to allay some residual fears of a second takeover attempt and help justify the investments of the White Knights. The studio profits, particularly the Fantasia releases, combined with the increased park revenues, went a long way towards paying down the debt.
Other cost-cutting, revenue-generating measures would prove more challenging. Wells considered some direct competitive assignments between employees with the winner getting to keep their job, but first Kinsey and then Henson and Miller strongly opposed such measures as “out of keeping with the Disney spirit.” Instead, Kinsey pointed to the animation studios as a model to follow, pointing out the huge increase in productivity over the past few years under Henson. Wells, however, was of the opposite option, noting that overhead had increased and that profit margins remained far lower than in other areas of the company. Wells expressed an interest in eliminating the animation department entirely and focusing on the far more profitable Fantasia and Hyperion, but the mere suggestion was treated as blasphemy.
While the studio was hailing The Black Cauldron as a success, $50 million against a $22 million budget, Wells dug further and determined that this was only counting the proximate, short-term costs. By his reckoning, Cauldron had cost well over $40 million to make and, factoring in marketing and distribution, was therefore a net loss! He noted that, by comparison, The Care Bears Movie was made for $2 million and grossed over $34 million. Roy E. Disney and Henson pointed out that the Care Bears animation was poor-quality and was noticeably jumpy from the slow frame rate and repeating of cels to cut costs, and tried to point out the smooth, living quality of the Disney feature, but Wells remained unimpressed. Wells still wanted to find ways to cut costs at animation.
Kinsey used the opportunity to push the DATA initiative, noting how the per-frame costs on the more heavily computer animated Where the Wild Things Are were notably lower than the previous nearly all-hand-drawn movies. This was partially true, since the use of computer-assisted backgrounds allowed for three-dimensional effects without needing several layered background cels and further allowed for backgrounds to be reused with slight changes to imply motion or even a different location without rebuilding it all from scratch. In truth, though, much of the reduced cost on Wild Things was due to the style of the animation, which was directly based on Sendak’s use of flat colors, thick outlines, and straight-line shading in the original book, all of which could be duplicated on cels far quicker and cheaper than the more layered, naturalistic images on Cauldron.
Wells also opposed the production of the animated Shorts, finding that their returns were negligible. Henson pushed back, citing their use as a training ground, talent scouting mechanism, and prestige generator, noting the sheer number of Emmys and Oscars piling up in the display cases from the Shorts. For the time being Miller sided with Roy and Henson, but Wells made his point. There was an almost unspoken implication that Wild Things needed to perform well and turn a good profit, or animation may face serious cuts.
Hyperion Pictures, on the other hand, was turning a good profit with two successes under its belt. One, Splash, was a major hit. Even so, Wells and Kinsey worked hard to reduce overhead, particularly on the less-well-performing Disney Live Action Studios side, whose biggest hits were either outside productions distributed via Fantasia Films or the Muppets.
A final point of underperformance with respect to revenue-generation was the hotels. Disneyland and Disney World were both missing out on huge potential revenues due to a lack of on-site rooms. With Marriott now a major shareholder with board representation, the pressure was on to live up to Ray Watson’s perhaps hasty promise to make a hotel deal with the company, which board member Al Checchi not-so-subtly reminded them had been made at every opportunity. The first meeting on the subject had been surprisingly contentious. Dick Nunis was reiterating the old Card Walker canard about Disney not being in the hotel business. Al Checchi was pushing back.
Marriott presented several planned hotels to add to Disneyland and Walt Disney World, but Henson remained unimpressed by the designs. “It’s a box,” he said of one traditional glass-sided modernist building.
“What did you want, Jim,” asked Checchi, sarcastically, “the Roman Colosseum?”
“Can we do that?” asked Henson. Wells was unsure if he was being sincere, dryly sarcastic, or simply ignoring the insult.
Either way, Chairman Ray Watson reminded everyone that the company still held a contract with John Tishman to design and build two hotels, which had yet to be exercised. Bill Marriott, Jr., over the phone, suggested that his company could buy out the contract. Tishman’s designs, created by architect Alan Lapidus, were looked upon more favorably by Henson, but still, he felt, “weren’t Disney.” When pressed on what he meant, Henson, who had visited Walt Disney World numerous times, described the experience of the two existing hotels, the Polynesian and the Contemporary. Leaning way, way back in his chair, Henson described the latter hotel as “a space station” where you could board and depart on a “space shuttle” (the monorail) and then fly back in to dock “like an astronaut.” He described the Polynesian as “an island escape” that was actually in reach, a “trip to Tahiti in America,” describing it as “a magical place.”
Each hotel was tied, per Walt’s vision, to one of the “lands” of Disney: The Contemporary to Tomorrowland and the Polynesian to Fantasyland. To Henson, the hotels had to be both a part of Disney itself and an experience in their own right. “An attraction you can sleep in.”
“Like the Roman Colosseum,” said Checchi, this time without obvious sarcasm.
“Sure,” said Henson, suddenly very animated, hands flying in broad gestures and speaking to the air rather than anyone at the table. “Or a Viking longhouse, or a Welsh castle, or a Japanese pagoda, or even a pirate ship.” He went on to describe how they could tie them directly to the World Showcase or other attractions, or even “have traditional dancers, like at the Polynesian.”
Wells still had no idea how to approach the dreamer Henson, whose far-reaching creative impulses clearly clashed with his own fiscal conservancy. And yet this was exactly the type of outside-of-the-box creativity that Wells knew a creative company like Disney needed. He convinced the board to give Henson a few days to “whip up some concepts.” Henson went almost immediately to Disney’s chief architect Wing Chao, who took him to see the designs the Imagineers had made for the Victorian-inspired Grand Floridian Resort, which was tied to Main Street, USA. This was exactly what Henson was looking for.
With the Floridian and other fantastic designs under his arm, Henson excitedly dragged Chao in with him to present the designs. The Marriott faction scoffed at the implicit cost of the Floridian in particular, as did Tishman, who again lobbied for Lapidus. A three-way compromise was reached where Tishman and Marriott would split the construction costs for both the Grand Floridian and the Lapidus-designed Fair Seas Resorts, the latter following a flowing, stepped modern design typical of Lapidus’ work[3], and then share the proceeds three-ways for ten years, after which the rights would revert to Disney and Marriott. A third hotel, the Roman-inspired Villa Romana Resort, which resembled “Pompeii in its heyday” and had twice-daily “volcanic eruptions” in the lobby and restaurant[4], was a silent nod to the Colosseum comment and was designed by the Imagineers and built at Disneyland. Once completed in the late ‘80s, all three hotels regularly sold out their rooms nearly year-round, providing further revenue streams.
After weeks of discussions like these and a top-to-bottom study of the company’s bureaucratic pipelines, communications flows, overhead, expenses, and returns, Wells concluded that a structural reorganization was necessary. He and Kinsey met with Watson and Miller and ultimately convinced them of the need for the reorg. A special committee was formed to develop the plan, chaired by Wells and organized by Kinsey. Ultimately, they presented a plan to the board: the overarching structure of the company would become known as the Walt Disney Corporation with four subordinate organizations to be called Walt Disney Studios (which would include animation, effects, puppetry, nature documentaries, and the Fantasia Films label), Hyperion Studios (which would absorb most of the live action productions and Buena Vista Distribution as well as music and books), Walt Disney Recreation (which would include the parks and hotels), and Walt Disney Engineering (which included the old WDI plus the core of the Henson Creature Shop).
Henson, who’d been speaking up and interjecting his ideas more and more since the hostile takeover attempt, pushed back on the names, feeling that “Corporation” was too cold and, well, corporate, and also noting its resemblance to the word “corpse”. He recommended the more inviting Walt Disney Entertainment Company, noting that “company” seemed friendlier and more intimate than “corporation”. He further suggested the name Walt Disney Engineering be changed to the jauntier Walt Disney Imagineering Workshop, noting with a chuckle that you could call it the “I-Works” in honor of the artist Ub Iwerks, who first drew Mickey Mouse. He even surprised Miller when he offered no resistance to the Creature Shop being absorbed by the I-Works and taken out of his direct supervision.
Henson went further. Looking at the overhead slide of the new organizational chart, which showed the central circle of the parent company and the four radiating spokes of the child organizations, Henson asked to borrow a marker and promptly outlined the whole thing with a quick sketch of Mickey Mouse’s iconic four-fingered glove. The nods of the board made it clear that the idea would stick. In the spirit of Disney whimsey, the new organizational structure would officially be called the “Mickey Glove”, with the parent company being the “hand” and each of the child organizations being the “fingers”. Henson would retain the Chair and Presidency of Walt Disney Studios, which since it contained the “heart and soul” of the company, Animation, became the “index finger”. The I-Works, to be led by Chair and President Carl Bongirno, would, after heavy lobbying by John Hench and Marty Sklar, become the “thumb”, since it “interacted with all of the other fingers” through its animatronics and design. Hyperion Studios would retain Tom Wilhite as Chair and President and, in keeping with their “adult” reputation, gladly accepted the position of “middle finger”. This left Walt Disney Recreation with the leftover “little finger”, which annoyed Chair and President Dick Nunis. Nunis was ultimately placated when it was pointed out that, since it was Mickey’s right hand and he was “waving” to the viewer, this made WD Recreation the “first finger” on the chart.
The Mickey Glove concept played well with employees, fans, and investors alike, the latter of whom saw the reorganization as a sign that management was open to taking bold new steps in business as well as art. Stock prices increased 2.5% upon the announcement of the reorg, and the “Mickey Glove” concept gained lots of attention in the press precisely because it didn’t reflect the standard dry corporate thinking of most large companies. It was, most felt, a sign that this was a New Magic Kingdom.
Wells, however, was not completely satisfied. The Disney board, now up to 16 members, was getting unwieldy. While such board numbers had been common in the past, the growing consensus among business experts was that such large board sizes led to groupthink and stagnation, exactly the issue that he was hired to reverse. Action would be necessary to remedy this situation.
* * *
The Board of Directors for the Walt Disney Entertainment Company, Spring 1985:
Ray Watson, Chairman (former head of the Irvine Company)
Ronald “Ron” Miller, CEO
Frank Wells, President and COO
James M. “Jim” Henson, CCO, President, Walt Disney Studios, & Creative Director
Richard “Dick” Nunis, President, Disney Outdoor Entertainment
Roy E. Disney, Vice President, Walt Disney Animation Studios (head of Shamrock Holdings)
Al Gottesman (President, Henson Arts Holdings)
Dianne Disney Miller (Partner, Retlaw Enterprises)
Peter Dailey (former US ambassador to Ireland and Roy Disney’s brother-in-law)
Philip Hawley (Carter Hawley Hale)
Samuel Williamson (senior partner, Hufstedler, Miller, Carson, & Beardsley)
Caroline Ahmanson (head and founder of Caroline Leonetti Ltd.; Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco)
Charles Cobb (CEO of Arvida Corp.; representing the interests of Bass Brothers)
Alfred Attilio “Al” Checchi (representing Marriott International)
Advisory Board Members (non-voting, ad-hoc attendance):
E. Cardon “Card” Walker, Chairman Emeritus
Donn Tatum, Chairman Emeritus
Sid Bass (CEO of Bass Brothers Enterprises)
Steven Spielberg (Partner, Amblin Entertainment)
Steve Jobs (CEO & President of Apple Computer, Inc.)
George Lucas (CEO of Lucasfilm, Ltd.)
J. Willard “Bill” Marriott, Jr. (CEO of Marriott International)
The Disney Executive Committee:
Ronald “Ron” Miller, CEO
Frank Wells, President and COO
James M. “Jim” Henson, CCO and President, Walt Disney Studios
Richard “Dick” Nunis, President, Disney Outdoor Entertainment
Thomas “Tom” Wilhite, President, Hyperion Pictures
Roy E. Disney, Vice President, Walt Disney Animation Studios
* * *
Stocks at a Glance: Walt Disney Entertainment (DIS)
March 14th, 1985
Stock price: $121.27
Major Shareholders: Henson family (19.2%), Roy E. Disney (13.4%), Disney-Miller family (12.2%), Sid Bass (9.6%), Bill Marriott (6.3%), Amblin Entertainment (1.3%), Apple Comp. (0.7%), Lucasfilm Ltd. (0.42%), Suspected “Knights Errant” (4.6%), Others (32%)
Outstanding shares: 37.6 million
[1] Compare with Bagnall’s experience with Eisner, where Eisner’s understanding of basic finance was (according to Bagnall) so poor that Bagnall didn’t much bother to conceal his contempt.
[2] Wells was impressed by Kinsey in our timeline too, and for a while Kinsey was his right-hand man. Eventually, the hypercompetitive and negatively charged “winner takes all” culture developing in the new Eisner/Wells Disney proved distasteful for Kinsey, who was also annoyed that his CAPS project was being summarily dismissed. Kinsey in our timeline teamed up with the equally disgruntled Don Iwerks and the two left to found Iwerks Entertainment.
[3] Compare to our timeline where Eisner, much like Henson, pushed for out-of-the-box ideas, in particular a giant Mickey Mouse shaped hotel that would straddle the main road at Disneyland “like the Colossus of Rhodes”. While dismissed as impractical, the sheer outside-of-the-box audacity of the idea impressed people. Ultimately, Eisner, who severely disliked the Lapidus designs and dismissed them as “schlock”, went instead with trendy postmodern architect Michael Graves for the first new hotels. Graves’ postmodern, pyramidal, fountain-topped design was accepted despite Tishman’s resistance, and Eisner pushed to “lighten them up” further, adding giant swan and dolphin statues on top. The results were the Swan and Dolphin hotels, which are either clever postmodern whimsey or campy, kitschy eyesores, depending on whom you ask.
[4] Sort of like what happens at Margaritaville in Orlando, but with more visual show and simulated lava flowing from the walls, sort of like in Disney Sea.
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