A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
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Plus it won't be weird an adult queen falling in love with a child slave
Maybe and it's a good choice, there are also Anthony Micheal Hall or Ilan Mitchell-Smith (of Weird Science and John Hughes fame) maybe some more unknow (at the time actor)
Agreed. Anniken should be aged up to be around the same age as Padme (most likely teenagers), so the romance makes sense and the Jedi Council is even more concerned about training him, with only Qui-Gon's final words giving way to his apprenticeship under Obi-Wan (strong asset to the Jedi as an exceptionally powerful force-sensitive).
No, not at all. Compared to Star Wars, Willow as a franchise is pretty much green pastures. Let your Lucas go wild on that one!
While Mara Jade would probably be a part of the Sequels at some point ITTL, doing them prematurely might result in her and Luke not hooking up or at least not getting married in the Expanded Universe, so that's an additional reason why I don't support an earlier Sequels.
Plus I think they would've gone with the Dark Empire plot for the Sequels too....
Keep in mind that in the first movie Padme is dismissive of the idea of a relationship. Pretty much everything on that matter happens in Episode 2, where it's the difference between 19 and 24.
I mean sure, but that's a problem in and of itself - Anakin's fall is based on his love for padme, and leaving that relationship to start in the second movie kinda forces the story to be rushed and makes it much harder to make the audience care. It would be best to give the relationship more time, and thus start it in the first movie.
Also this whole conversation might not even matter because Geekis Khan might decide to completely change what Lucas does with Star Wars (especially now it looks like Willow is going to be his second major franchise) so we might not get prequels at all!
One of the problems the Star Wars prequels had was how dry the writing could be. No kid wants to hear about taxes when they watch a Star Wars movie. Or how it made actors like Terence Stamp or Samuel L. Jackson look wooden. It's a problem easily remedied.
I wonder if the prequels and esp Phantom Menace would have been better as a TV show aimed more at Adults?
Phantom Menace is not a bad film, but spoilt with the slap-stick.
In theory yes it is easily fixed, but the main problem was basically George Lucas and he is hard to shift. Terence Stamp describes being asked to act against a stick with Natalie Portmans name on it (not even a picture, just her name), because all Lucas really wanted him to do was read some exposition, not act or be a character. I think Ewan McGregoer describe something similar, the challenges to being on a entirely green set with no other character and trying to work out what the hell to do.
If the plot is just something to fill time between the Special Effects, which is how Lucas felt about the films, and the actors are aware of that, then of course you are going to get wooden performances, particularly from the more experienced actors who don't need to build a reputation and understand that not every film is made for the love of the artform. Sometimes a big pay check for minimal work is enough.
Who the Hell Now?
You were warned, remember that.
Regenerating the 8th Doctor!
From Regenerating Who Netlog, October 25th, 2006
Remember, remember, the 13th of December…the day the Whovians were split in twain! Yes, for this was the day that Richard Griffiths’ 7th Doctor was regenerated into the divisive 8th Doctor! Prior to this date there was but a single Whovian fandom, but afterwards there were two. Sure, the fandom would debate Griffith’s clownish take or whether John Pertwee could hold a candle to Tom Baker or whether Colin Baker deserved more respect, but all could agree that they loved the same franchise. But the 13th of December would change all that.
The 7th Doctor, his companion Fen (Rik Mayall), and the loyal robotic sidekick K-9 had battled Anthony Ainley’s nefarious Master all through the other three parts of “The Lifestealer”, but by the end of Part 4 The Master had turned his Lifeforce Collection Device upon The Doctor himself! Fen and K-9 looked on in horror as the beam sucked away the very regenerative Timelord life force from The Doctor, causing him to age rapidly with no chance for regeneration. But Fen threw a literal spanner in the works, causing the Device to crack and burst, flooding both The Doctor and The Master with the accumulated Time Lord Life Force it held.
The Master, glowing with Regenerative Life Force, ran off into another room, his new form to be revealed later. The Doctor, however, collapsed behind a console and emerged, the Technicolor Nightmare Coat now dangling from his small frame.
The Fandom gasped, cracked, and broke apart. The new Doctor was a child!
Worse yet, the new Doctor was a Yank.
Young actor Neil Patrick Harris had been cast in a few small roles before playing The Doctor, but this was his first lead role[1]. Still, the producers felt that the young actor had real talent and an innocent screen presence that was matched only by his high intelligence and ability to recite some very complex dialog without stumbling, suggesting an age far beyond his physical appearance. Still, though, the established older primarily-British Whovians were largely not open to considering the young actor’s talents at the time.
Not the Doctor you were expecting? Neil Patrick Harris, 1989 (Image source “heart.co.uk”)
“Teenage Tardis Traveler Debuts with Doctor Drama; Has the Bloody Beeb gone Bonkers?” asked The Sun with typical hyperbole.
Well, if Eric Saward was indeed crazy, then he was crazy like a fox, for while Griffiths’ run had been steadily losing viewers in the UK where “Who fatigue” was the norm, it had gained a steady stream of new younger viewers in the United States. Harris’ selection was, quite simply, an acknowledgement that the Dr. Who viewership was increasingly “under twelve and over the pond.” PBS had been achieving record numbers thanks to Dr. Who’s young new audience, with increased viewer donations and increased merchandise sales. Dr. Who T-shirts, toys, and lunch boxes were not quite to Elmo levels, but were impressive none the less.
“If anything, we were returning to Doctor Who’s child-friendly foundations,” said BBC Executive Michael Grade. “William Hartnell’s and Patrick Troughton’s runs were specifically intended for a child audience. It was, as the Yanks gauchely say, originally intended as ‘Edutainment’, a chance to learn about the Aztecs and whatnot.”
A look back at Troughton’ run, with him and his companions literally getting trapped in the pages of a giant storybook, certainly supports this claim. Still, many older fans would not be placated.
“I was accused of ruining Dr. Who,” said Saward, “But the pressure was on from above to appeal to the new audience.” Saward would famously leave the show after a single year, sick of “angry letters”, to be replaced by Joan Ganz Cooney of the Children’s Television Workshop[2]. At first, the older fans did not approve. The animosity only increased when Cooney referred to the character as “Dr. Who” in an interview. But from a production standpoint, she leveraged her years of experience in PBS children’s programming to manage a well-made, cleverly written, and highly successful three-year run. With Jim Henson’s newly reestablished London Creatureworks enlisted to provide the effects, the show featured the highest effects production values seen to date. Cooney would, of course, go from Who show runner to a position as head of US Production for BBC Overseas Production and ultimately leverage the position to become the President of BBC America.
And if older British audiences were losing faith in The Doctor, the new younger American audiences were loving it, as were critics. Harris was “delightful and charming” as the wise beyond his seeming years 8th Doctor. He even provided his own unique quirks, being a bit overwhelmed while also somehow totally in control, “a teenager and an old man at the same time” as TV Guide put it. Harris’s Doctor, in keeping with the proclivities of the actor, had an interest in prestidigitation and sleight-of-hand tricks and started to wear red-lined capes, colorful silk shirts, and the occasional top hat. Contrary to rumors, the Tardis would not get an “MTV makeover” as some had feared, but kept with the earlier precedent towards silver and white with slight neon nods to the styles of the era in which it was made.
Fen would leave halfway through the first season, an obvious poor fit for the new direction despite his continued popularity with the young audience. Instead, they looked for an outgoing and energetic “cool girl” from LA who played well off of Harris’s more introverted and intellectual Doctor. They considered the American actress Lark Voorhies, but the BBC board pushed back[3], insisting on at least maintaining a British Companion. Instead, British actress Carmen Ejogo, who’d previously played a role in the David Bowie musical film Absolute Beginners, was brought on board as the punkish London “street bird” Jess. She was also the first non-white Companion.
Carmen Ejogo c1993 in the set of Saturday Disney (Image source “youtube.com”)
K-9 remained, and remained very popular with the young audience. Advancing effects allowed him to hover and fly, not just roll along the floor, and he soon rivaled the Sonic Screwdriver as an all-purpose plot-resolving gadget. And, of course, a new Doctor needed a new Master to oppose him. Since The Master was last seen glowing with the same regenerating energy as the Doctor, he too was cast young, with British teen actor Simon Gregson of Coronation Street cast in the antagonistic role, first appearing in the Season 27 series “The Gates of Probability”. Gregson’s charismatic “bad boy” persona and good looks made him a popular character with the growing young female fandom. This also led to overt flirting from Jess once the producers noticed the undeniable chemistry between the two young actors.
Simon Gregson c1989 (Image source “amazon.com”)
But Harris remained the focus of the show. “Honestly, I hadn’t really followed Dr. Who before,” said Harris, “Some of my friends followed Griffiths, though, and liked Rik Mayall’s Fen in particular. I watched some of the old episodes and really liked the Pertwee years and considered going for the ruffled shirts look, but I was encouraged to find my own take on the character with the advice that I should act like an adult trapped in a child’s body, so I went with that. We had some fun adding in some jokes and subplots about adolescence, which I was personally going through at the time, of course, but with an ‘oh no, not again’ kind of vibe. Lark and Simon were fun to work with. It was a fun show, and yea, looking back on it it’s a bit campy, but as a Broadway man you learn to love and embrace the camp. I still get approached by Who fans on occasion. Occasionally, I still get the hate mail, but as often as not I get the ‘I didn’t appreciate you at the time, but now…’ thing.”
Neil Patrick Harris’s run as the 8th Doctor lasted a full three seasons from 1990 through 1993 before he too faced regeneration. By this time, the young American audience that had boosted the series was entering into their teens. Also by this time, a new, younger British audience had begun watching the show as well, sometimes despite (or possibly because of) the overt disapproval of their “Orthodox Whovian” parents. The next generation of children in the US and Britain were moving on to other things, the Who “fad” having moved on. But with young teen audiences still tuning in to some degree, Grade and Cooney contemplated how to retain and grow this audience instead.
As had happened with the 8th Doctor, the evolving audience, ultimately, would lead to the 9th Doctor taking an entirely different direction from Harris’s innocent charm.
[1] I couldn’t resist, sorry! Teenage me would have hated this turn, but the 9-year-old me who snuck up past his bedtime to watch Tom Baker and K-9 would have loved it. For the record, Doogie Howser, MD, is butterflied. It never had much studio support to begin with and was only saved by a great screen test.
[2] It began as a temporary duty for her, but ultimately became a new career path. On her recommendation she was replaced as the head of CTW by none other than Jane Nebel Henson!
[3] Hat tip to @Mackon for pointing out this likelihood.
Regenerating the 8th Doctor!
From Regenerating Who Netlog, October 25th, 2006
Remember, remember, the 13th of December…the day the Whovians were split in twain! Yes, for this was the day that Richard Griffiths’ 7th Doctor was regenerated into the divisive 8th Doctor! Prior to this date there was but a single Whovian fandom, but afterwards there were two. Sure, the fandom would debate Griffith’s clownish take or whether John Pertwee could hold a candle to Tom Baker or whether Colin Baker deserved more respect, but all could agree that they loved the same franchise. But the 13th of December would change all that.
The 7th Doctor, his companion Fen (Rik Mayall), and the loyal robotic sidekick K-9 had battled Anthony Ainley’s nefarious Master all through the other three parts of “The Lifestealer”, but by the end of Part 4 The Master had turned his Lifeforce Collection Device upon The Doctor himself! Fen and K-9 looked on in horror as the beam sucked away the very regenerative Timelord life force from The Doctor, causing him to age rapidly with no chance for regeneration. But Fen threw a literal spanner in the works, causing the Device to crack and burst, flooding both The Doctor and The Master with the accumulated Time Lord Life Force it held.
The Master, glowing with Regenerative Life Force, ran off into another room, his new form to be revealed later. The Doctor, however, collapsed behind a console and emerged, the Technicolor Nightmare Coat now dangling from his small frame.
The Fandom gasped, cracked, and broke apart. The new Doctor was a child!
Worse yet, the new Doctor was a Yank.
Young actor Neil Patrick Harris had been cast in a few small roles before playing The Doctor, but this was his first lead role[1]. Still, the producers felt that the young actor had real talent and an innocent screen presence that was matched only by his high intelligence and ability to recite some very complex dialog without stumbling, suggesting an age far beyond his physical appearance. Still, though, the established older primarily-British Whovians were largely not open to considering the young actor’s talents at the time.
Not the Doctor you were expecting? Neil Patrick Harris, 1989 (Image source “heart.co.uk”)
“Teenage Tardis Traveler Debuts with Doctor Drama; Has the Bloody Beeb gone Bonkers?” asked The Sun with typical hyperbole.
Well, if Eric Saward was indeed crazy, then he was crazy like a fox, for while Griffiths’ run had been steadily losing viewers in the UK where “Who fatigue” was the norm, it had gained a steady stream of new younger viewers in the United States. Harris’ selection was, quite simply, an acknowledgement that the Dr. Who viewership was increasingly “under twelve and over the pond.” PBS had been achieving record numbers thanks to Dr. Who’s young new audience, with increased viewer donations and increased merchandise sales. Dr. Who T-shirts, toys, and lunch boxes were not quite to Elmo levels, but were impressive none the less.
“If anything, we were returning to Doctor Who’s child-friendly foundations,” said BBC Executive Michael Grade. “William Hartnell’s and Patrick Troughton’s runs were specifically intended for a child audience. It was, as the Yanks gauchely say, originally intended as ‘Edutainment’, a chance to learn about the Aztecs and whatnot.”
A look back at Troughton’ run, with him and his companions literally getting trapped in the pages of a giant storybook, certainly supports this claim. Still, many older fans would not be placated.
“I was accused of ruining Dr. Who,” said Saward, “But the pressure was on from above to appeal to the new audience.” Saward would famously leave the show after a single year, sick of “angry letters”, to be replaced by Joan Ganz Cooney of the Children’s Television Workshop[2]. At first, the older fans did not approve. The animosity only increased when Cooney referred to the character as “Dr. Who” in an interview. But from a production standpoint, she leveraged her years of experience in PBS children’s programming to manage a well-made, cleverly written, and highly successful three-year run. With Jim Henson’s newly reestablished London Creatureworks enlisted to provide the effects, the show featured the highest effects production values seen to date. Cooney would, of course, go from Who show runner to a position as head of US Production for BBC Overseas Production and ultimately leverage the position to become the President of BBC America.
And if older British audiences were losing faith in The Doctor, the new younger American audiences were loving it, as were critics. Harris was “delightful and charming” as the wise beyond his seeming years 8th Doctor. He even provided his own unique quirks, being a bit overwhelmed while also somehow totally in control, “a teenager and an old man at the same time” as TV Guide put it. Harris’s Doctor, in keeping with the proclivities of the actor, had an interest in prestidigitation and sleight-of-hand tricks and started to wear red-lined capes, colorful silk shirts, and the occasional top hat. Contrary to rumors, the Tardis would not get an “MTV makeover” as some had feared, but kept with the earlier precedent towards silver and white with slight neon nods to the styles of the era in which it was made.
Fen would leave halfway through the first season, an obvious poor fit for the new direction despite his continued popularity with the young audience. Instead, they looked for an outgoing and energetic “cool girl” from LA who played well off of Harris’s more introverted and intellectual Doctor. They considered the American actress Lark Voorhies, but the BBC board pushed back[3], insisting on at least maintaining a British Companion. Instead, British actress Carmen Ejogo, who’d previously played a role in the David Bowie musical film Absolute Beginners, was brought on board as the punkish London “street bird” Jess. She was also the first non-white Companion.
Carmen Ejogo c1993 in the set of Saturday Disney (Image source “youtube.com”)
K-9 remained, and remained very popular with the young audience. Advancing effects allowed him to hover and fly, not just roll along the floor, and he soon rivaled the Sonic Screwdriver as an all-purpose plot-resolving gadget. And, of course, a new Doctor needed a new Master to oppose him. Since The Master was last seen glowing with the same regenerating energy as the Doctor, he too was cast young, with British teen actor Simon Gregson of Coronation Street cast in the antagonistic role, first appearing in the Season 27 series “The Gates of Probability”. Gregson’s charismatic “bad boy” persona and good looks made him a popular character with the growing young female fandom. This also led to overt flirting from Jess once the producers noticed the undeniable chemistry between the two young actors.
Simon Gregson c1989 (Image source “amazon.com”)
But Harris remained the focus of the show. “Honestly, I hadn’t really followed Dr. Who before,” said Harris, “Some of my friends followed Griffiths, though, and liked Rik Mayall’s Fen in particular. I watched some of the old episodes and really liked the Pertwee years and considered going for the ruffled shirts look, but I was encouraged to find my own take on the character with the advice that I should act like an adult trapped in a child’s body, so I went with that. We had some fun adding in some jokes and subplots about adolescence, which I was personally going through at the time, of course, but with an ‘oh no, not again’ kind of vibe. Lark and Simon were fun to work with. It was a fun show, and yea, looking back on it it’s a bit campy, but as a Broadway man you learn to love and embrace the camp. I still get approached by Who fans on occasion. Occasionally, I still get the hate mail, but as often as not I get the ‘I didn’t appreciate you at the time, but now…’ thing.”
Neil Patrick Harris’s run as the 8th Doctor lasted a full three seasons from 1990 through 1993 before he too faced regeneration. By this time, the young American audience that had boosted the series was entering into their teens. Also by this time, a new, younger British audience had begun watching the show as well, sometimes despite (or possibly because of) the overt disapproval of their “Orthodox Whovian” parents. The next generation of children in the US and Britain were moving on to other things, the Who “fad” having moved on. But with young teen audiences still tuning in to some degree, Grade and Cooney contemplated how to retain and grow this audience instead.
As had happened with the 8th Doctor, the evolving audience, ultimately, would lead to the 9th Doctor taking an entirely different direction from Harris’s innocent charm.
[1] I couldn’t resist, sorry! Teenage me would have hated this turn, but the 9-year-old me who snuck up past his bedtime to watch Tom Baker and K-9 would have loved it. For the record, Doogie Howser, MD, is butterflied. It never had much studio support to begin with and was only saved by a great screen test.
[2] It began as a temporary duty for her, but ultimately became a new career path. On her recommendation she was replaced as the head of CTW by none other than Jane Nebel Henson!
[3] Hat tip to @Mackon for pointing out this likelihood.
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Jesus Christ - I didn't think it was possible, but this would make Grade more despised by Whovians (such as myself) than he already is. In OTL, he was despised for screwing the show over by openly trying to sabotage it - ITTL, he'd be despised for selling Doctor Who out to the Yanks.
The thing with Doctor Who is that it is inherently British - hell, our bloody Royal Family are huge fans! This Doctor Who is heavily Americanised, by contrast - I can't see Neil's Doctor going over well in Britain and I see OTL's hiatus still happening because Harris' Doctor will have soured the British audience to the series in a lot of ways .
I have nothing against Neil Patrick Harris - I believe he is a brilliant actor, but I think that ITTL, this approach will cause some damage to the series in the long run.
The thing with Doctor Who is that it is inherently British - hell, our bloody Royal Family are huge fans! This Doctor Who is heavily Americanised, by contrast - I can't see Neil's Doctor going over well in Britain and I see OTL's hiatus still happening because Harris' Doctor will have soured the British audience to the series in a lot of ways .
I have nothing against Neil Patrick Harris - I believe he is a brilliant actor, but I think that ITTL, this approach will cause some damage to the series in the long run.
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