A Day in July: An Early 20th Century Timeline

[Zulfurium]

The result of the Russian civil war roughly lines up with what i expected since the end of the Great War. I’m not sure if the Yekatarinburg Reds are going to be seen as second fiddle for much longer in this scenario – they control a huge amount of territory after all, and should be in a decently strong position once they had time to consolidate. I wonder how the relationship between them and the Muscovites are going to look in the future, especially if both sides follow different economic models. Do people outside of Russia even differentiate between the two, now that they are both part of the third international?

I didn’t expect the Germans to establish a rapport with the Muscovites, but since the treaty favored them i guess it makes sense. This also puts the Don Whites in a bit of a weird position. As much as they might like to seek the support of the other western powers, they can’t really afford to alienate the Germans too much, since they are surrounded by the Reds to the north and east, and German allies to the south and west. Then there is the fact that Ukraine makes up half of their territory, and possibly even a majority of their population – that’s gonna be an issue i think, and the question of Ukrainian independence will come up again, i’m sure.

Also, as long as this state of affairs remains, it pretty much precludes anything like WW2. I brought this up some time ago, but without Russia to threaten Germany from the east, there is no way that France or Britain would be willing to fight Germany, at least in Europe. Since ITTL they didn’t manage to defeat the Germans with the Russians, i don’t see them trying to do so without them. This is especially true for France, who might fear that they wouldn’t be able to prevent a German invasion if the Germans are able to concentrate all their forces against them, which wasn’t the case in the last war. If there is some war, then it will probably be restricted to Asia or the colonies.

Btw, when will Anastasia visit her sister? And what do the remaining members of the Romanov family think about all of this? Also, Olga and Roman have certainly been busy. Three children (i think) in four years? Not bad.

The interrelated nature of the Reds in the coming period will be driving people spare for decades to come as they struggle to differentiate between faction, state, party and ideology amongst the Reds. In the same way that a lot of people tended to view all leftists as being one single mass. Outside of Russia, it takes a more detailed interest to understand the contrasts. Leftists are more knowledgable on the differences on the Right, and Europeans - falling from east to west - have varying understandings of the differences. While the contrast between the two Red factions was pretty well understood publicly - at least in Europe - during the middle of the Russian Civil War, but that understanding is decreasing constantly.

The Ukraine will cause trouble as we move forward, and securing some sort of concord between the Ukrainians and Russians will remain a key challenge for the Don Whites.

While I would agree that a Second World War is very unlikely, I do find it interesting that you didn't mention the Americans and the role they might play moving forward.

Anastasia is staying in the US, at least for now, and will live there for the time being. The divisions within the Romanov clan will be a topic of some examination as we move forward. One son and two daughters so far, however their relationship isn't exactly the best.

 

[TheMoonUnderWater]

What happened to Nestor makhno? I'm worried about my comrade.

 

[Zulfurium]

What happened to Nestor makhno? I'm worried about my comrade.

He survives into the post-Civil War period as part of the Moscow Reds. With the end of the war he finds his power base reduced but is making moves towards entering the political arena.

 

[Kaiser Chris]

How come Japan didn't try to take Northern Sakhalain/Karafuto? It seems like it would be an easy win for them as the Imperialists are too busy with the Siberian refugee situation and wouldn't care about losing an island with hardly any resources. If Japan did so in addition to their gains from Versailles and the renewal of the treaty with the British, it would be a huge boost to national pride and might prevent the Nationalists from taking power.

 

[Wolttaire]

This is roughly a map of areas where Ukraine is spoken so I would not be surprised if the don whites transition into a Ukraine state and start to focus instead on creating. Ukraine state of some kind

 

[Wolttaire]

This is roughly a map of areas where Ukraine is spoken so I would not be surprised if the don whites transition into a Ukraine state and start to focus instead on creating. Ukraine state of some kind

Actually looking at the map they hold hold all of Ukraine territory so they are guaranteed to become a Ukraine state

 

[Zulfurium]

How come Japan didn't try to take Northern Sakhalain/Karafuto? It seems like it would be an easy win for them as the Imperialists are too busy with the Siberian refugee situation and wouldn't care about losing an island with hardly any resources. If Japan did so in addition to their gains from Versailles and the renewal of the treaty with the British, it would be a huge boost to national pride and might prevent the Nationalists from taking power.

The Liberals came to power in Japan prior to that and lost interest in major military investments into the region, as a result there isn't really all that much pressure to aggressively expand - particularly given that the areas you mentioned are under the control of a faction which the Japanese view as one of their puppets. In their eyes, they effectively control all of the far-east through the Siberian Whites. They are providing many of the key advisors to the Romanovs in the Far East and are developing considerable trade ties through Vladivostok. Hell, there are even Japanese naval units stationed in Vladivostok.

Taking Northern Sakhalin would do little more than piss everyone off and shatter the relationship between the Japanese and the Ungern-Romanovs. An expansion into northern Sakhlin would place Japan at odds with a close neighbour, provide their rivals for Siberian influence (the Americans) with a considerable boost in support and would strengthen the nationalists. The Liberal government has no interest in any of those things happening.

 

[Kaiser Chris]

The Liberals came to power in Japan prior to that and lost interest in major military investments into the region, as a result there isn't really all that much pressure to aggressively expand - particularly given that the areas you mentioned are under the control of a faction which the Japanese view as one of their puppets. In their eyes, they effectively control all of the far-east through the Siberian Whites. They are providing many of the key advisors to the Romanovs in the Far East and are developing considerable trade ties through Vladivostok. Hell, there are even Japanese naval units stationed in Vladivostok.

Taking Northern Sakhalin would do little more than piss everyone off and shatter the relationship between the Japanese and the Ungern-Romanovs. An expansion into northern Sakhlin would place Japan at odds with a close neighbour, provide their rivals for Siberian influence (the Americans) with a considerable boost in support and would strengthen the nationalists. The Liberal government has no interest in any of those things happening.

By the way I'm making a proper map of post-war Prussia, just who exactly are the two states in the caucuses? Georgia and Cossacks?

 

[Zulfurium]

By the way I'm making a proper map of post-war Prussia, just who exactly are the two states in the caucuses? Georgia and Cossacks?

Georgia and the Ottoman Empire.

 

[Kaiser Chris]

Map of Post Russian Civil War

Grey: Russian Empire (Ungern-Romanov). Orange:Yekaterinburg Reds. Green: Khiva. Red: Moscow Reds. White: Don Whites. Violet: Georgia. Brown: Ottoman Empire. Light Blue: Kingdom of Finland. Purple: United Baltic Duchy. Dark Green: Kingdom of Lithuania. Red: Poland.

 

[Scerus]

@Zulfurium I saw you mentioned that there hasn't been much work in regards to New Zealand. If you want, I could help develop ideas.

 

[FickleCrossroad]

Just as I catch up, it goes on hiatus. Damn.

 

[Zulfurium]

View attachment 414407
Map of Post Russian Civil War

Grey: Russian Empire (Ungern-Romanov). Orange:Yekaterinburg Reds. Green: Khiva. Red: Moscow Reds. White: Don Whites. Violet: Georgia. Brown: Ottoman Empire. Light Blue: Kingdom of Finland. Purple: United Baltic Duchy. Dark Green: Kingdom of Lithuania. Red: Poland.

Looks great, thank you

I hope you don't mind me threadmarking it.

@Zulfurium I saw you mentioned that there hasn't been much work in regards to New Zealand. If you want, I could help develop ideas.

You are very welcome to do so. It was more a matter of not really knowing how the butterflies would impact NZ and what interesting divergences it might provoke.

Just as I catch up, it goes on hiatus. Damn.

Sorry about that, I would love to hear if you have any ideas or thoughts on the TL. The Hiatus should be relatively short all things considered, but now you can actually have a voice in what happens

 

[This Machine]

What is the situation in Georgia (the country, not the state) at this point?

 

[Wolttaire]

What the deal with the Poland and Lithuania borders

 

[Zulfurium]

What is the situation in Georgia (the country, not the state) at this point?

Georgia remains under the complete control of the Georgian Menshevik Party, which has instituted an ostensibly multi-party social democracy, but in effect rules as what amounts to a one-party state (they get in excess of 90% of the vote in elections). They have created a surprisingly prosperous and multi-ethnic state with strong German backing and are considered the Germans' preferred state in the region. Many of their banks and international companies use Georgia as their regional base for trade in the Ottoman Empire and Russia, and it serves as the primary shipping route for a lot of Baku Oil on its way to the Black Sea, wherefrom it is transferred west to Romania and from there follows the Romanian oil trade routes to Germany. Georgia has a large emigre population and has absorbed a lot of Armenian refugees, who have become something of an underclass in most major Georgian cities. Generally, their prospects look good as long as they avoid Turkish or Russian power plays - which they currently do by clinging to the Germans as hard as possible.

What the deal with the Poland and Lithuania borders

I think you are referring to the Suwalki region, which sort of sticks up into Lithuania. That was where the OTL boundary between Russian Poland and Lithuania ran IOTL.


General Note:

I have gotten to work on the general outline of the coming years and at least so far it is looking good. A lot of fun twists and turns which should keep people engaged.

If people have any suggestions on Cultural, Technological, Social and Politico-Ideological developments which you would expect to have seen either in the years detailed in the TL so far, or in the period up till 1930, then please let me know. I have set aside an update for it and I need something to talk about for it. I have my own ideas, but could use some inspiration.

I am going to at least discuss developments in Eugenics in one section of that update, I want to talk about the impact of Poletkult hitting Berlin and subsequent cities and countries across Europe (although, again, I am a bit lacking in details there) and I am thinking of trying to get into some more detail with the specifics of the Communist ideology which has been developed in Moscow. Beyond that things are pretty open, so any suggestion is welcomed.

 

[Wolttaire]

Volga Germans what happen to them?

 

[Zulfurium]

Volga Germans what happen to them?

I mentioned them in the sections on the famine, they are hard hit in the famine and a majority of them end up fleeing into Don White lands, primarily settling along the lower Don River and in the Crimea. They become an important part of the population in both regions, although remaining a minority. By the end of the civil war there are large slums surrounding Rostov in which between 50,000-100,000 Volga Germans live.

 

[Wolttaire]

I mentioned them in the sections on the famine, they are hard hit in the famine and a majority of them end up fleeing into Don White lands, primarily settling along the lower Don River and in the Crimea. They become an important part of the population in both regions, although remaining a minority. By the end of the civil war there are large slums surrounding Rostov in which between 50,000-100,000 Volga Germans live.

anyway they will have a important effect on Ukraine culture

 

[TheMoonUnderWater]

Are the grey wolves an important political force in the ottoman empire?