A Day in July: An Early 20th Century Timeline
- Thread starter Zulfurium
- Start date
Finally! Some kind of update to ADiJ!
Congrats @Ombra, you are now @Zulfurium for you have delivered us content
Congrats @Ombra, you are now @Zulfurium for you have delivered us content
I definitely prefer this 1930s Germany to OTL's 1930s Germany. Then again, it'd be hard not to.
Your TL continues to be one of the most fun and engaging on the site.
There are somethings I do wonder about.
Did the Halifax explosion and the Tulsa massacre occur ITTL?
Did Thomas Marshall have any contributions as President other than the end of the Great War?
What are the ITTL's fate of
Thomas Marshall
Leonard Wood
William McAdoo
William Taft
Charles Hughes
There are somethings I do wonder about.
Did the Halifax explosion and the Tulsa massacre occur ITTL?
Did Thomas Marshall have any contributions as President other than the end of the Great War?
What are the ITTL's fate of
Thomas Marshall
Leonard Wood
William McAdoo
William Taft
Charles Hughes
Informational Five: The Fate of American Presidents
I am happy to hear that you have enjoyed it.
The Halifax Explosion and the Tulsa Massacre both occurred ITTL - I even mentioned it in update 34-2 when discussing the buildup to the Anti-Lynching legislation getting proposed.
Thomas Marshall was very old and even without the pressures of actually holding the presidency at the close of the Great War he still passed away in 1925. With those added stressors I think he struggles to make it past 1923, so I don't think he plays in al that much.
As for Leonard Wood, he is two-three years from dying of a tumor when he ends his time in office, so I doubt he has much time to make much of a mark either. He passes in 1927 from a resurgence of his meningioma.
McAdoo spends some time touring the US, trying to resurrect his political career or at the very least his influence, before giving it up for a bad job and retiring. Might spend the rest of his days living in California. I don't know if he has his divorce and remarriage to a 26-year old in 1935, but wouldn't put it past him.
William Taft doesn't return to the Supreme Court and instead remains at Yale, serving at the law school while holding a variety of appointments to various boards and commissions. He remains politically active and has his circle of supporters, but as he grows ever sicker throughout the 1920s he finds himself increasingly on the fringes of influence. At his death he is mourned and he is remembered rather fondly all-in-all. He leaves behind a large number of lawyers influenced by his thinking from Yale and wrote papers on just about every major legal issue of the day.
Charles Hughes has been politically involved and even spent time in Charles Curtis' cabinet. He is one of those who start protesting when Curtis pulls his disappearing act. He has been sprinkled throughout the story so far. He didn't enter the judiciary either though and ends up remaining in politics instead. He is still going strong by 1938 as a Republican politician.
Sorry about the delayed response, had missed your question before this.
Charles Lindbergh should still prove an incredibly prominent aviator - everything should be pretty well on track for that - however, I think I will go with the idea that Richard Hauptmann would have been guilty of the crime and that he died during the fighting late in the Great War. So no Lindbergh Kidnapping, changes to legislation or rise to public prominence from the issue.
He might spend some time touring Europe's air forces on behalf of the US military, but I don't think there is a reason for him to get super politically involved. He is living large on his reputation as an aviator and helping out the US military every once in a while basically. He is politically aligned with the Republicans and flirts with the Liberty Party once they are established, but is by and large not involved in politics at this point.
trinity
Banned
What is the general judgement in Ireland and amongst Irish-Americans surrounding the German Army's genuine, yet severely mismanaged and ham-fisted attempts to assist the Sinn Fein in their armed struggle against their English overlords during WWI in order to divert the British war effort? Are they grateful to Kaiser Wilhelm II similarly to the Ottomans, or is he detested there for his failure to assist their eventually unsuccessful rising?
None of the posters seem to have mentioned this so far, but how did the German U-Boat campaign against the Entente proceed from the 1917 POD-1919? Are they mostly seen in both public and professional opinion as being an overwhelming success similarly to the German deployment of tanks and warplanes near the end of the war, a disappointing failure similarly to the surface fleet, or more of a mixed/more complicated bag?
None of the posters seem to have mentioned this so far, but how did the German U-Boat campaign against the Entente proceed from the 1917 POD-1919? Are they mostly seen in both public and professional opinion as being an overwhelming success similarly to the German deployment of tanks and warplanes near the end of the war, a disappointing failure similarly to the surface fleet, or more of a mixed/more complicated bag?
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The German aid is welcomed for the most part, but people generally acknowledge it as a rather cynical effort. They aren't necessarily grateful but they don't detest the Germans for their aid. Mostly it is seen as a bungled failure in which everyone holds some sort of fault. TBH, the Easter Rising ends up getting rather massively overshadowed by the Irish Revolt post-Great War with its horrific climax. That said there are a lot of Irish exiles who bitterly complain that if they had just been given more and better support they would have had the British on the ropes - lots of relitigating both the rising and revolt all around. That said, Irish-Americans are distinctly more pro-German than their WASP neighbours.
The U-Boat campaign had its high point in 1917, as IOTL, with increasingly effective ASW efforts gradually reducing the effectiveness of the Uboat fleet. There were a string of innovations very late in the war - late-1918 and early-1919, but by then military resources had mostly been redirected entirely to supporting the front lines and the Uboat campaign fell into a tertiary role. It is seen as a complicated issue and there continues to be significant research and development in the field - check out Ombra's latest feature, he has some info about how ZV naval doctrine has developed.
trinity
Banned
@Zulfurium,
Approximately speaking, which geographical/linguistic areas of Europe possess the highest concentrations of Revolutionary Catholics and which European regions have the highest percentages of continued loyalty towards the Pope? And which areas are roughly mixed between the two, with all of the great contention that results from this? With the emergence of the Revolutionary Catholic Church having proved iself to be the single greatest challenge faced by the Papacy since its foundation (even greater than the Protestant Reformation, after all), I can imagine there being at least some appetite amongst the clerics for a second Counter-Reformation against the heretics, of all people.
With the Eastern Orthodox Church in an even worse state than that of the Roman Catholics due to the de facto exile of the Russian Orthodox Church to the Don Republic after the fall of White Siberia, is there any serious talk about nullifing the anathemas and even surrounding an eventual reconciliation between the two communions?
Approximately speaking, which geographical/linguistic areas of Europe possess the highest concentrations of Revolutionary Catholics and which European regions have the highest percentages of continued loyalty towards the Pope? And which areas are roughly mixed between the two, with all of the great contention that results from this? With the emergence of the Revolutionary Catholic Church having proved iself to be the single greatest challenge faced by the Papacy since its foundation (even greater than the Protestant Reformation, after all), I can imagine there being at least some appetite amongst the clerics for a second Counter-Reformation against the heretics, of all people.
With the Eastern Orthodox Church in an even worse state than that of the Roman Catholics due to the de facto exile of the Russian Orthodox Church to the Don Republic after the fall of White Siberia, is there any serious talk about nullifing the anathemas and even surrounding an eventual reconciliation between the two communions?
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Informational Six: State of the Catholic Church
Having written an entire timeline dealing with the Reformation, I feel the need to point out a couple things about the Counter-Reformation (sorry to be pedantic on the issue, but it is something I spent a while researching on and find interesting). The Counter-Reformation was the theological, cultural and societal reformation undertaken at the behest and under the leadership of the Catholic Church - not the suppression of the Reformation. The Counter-Reformation was an effort to address the clear structural and theological problems highlighted by the Reformation which had been growing ever more clear to the public in Europe going all the way back to the start of the Avignon Papacy, but really since the Western Schism in the 14th century. In fact, one of the reasons that Spain proved so resilient towards the Reformation was because they had effectively undertaken a "Pre-Reformation" round of reforms which had resolved many of the issues which ultimately led British, German, French and eventually Italian theologians to press for reform of the church. You see it with Wycliffe, Savonarola and Zwingli to mention but a few before Luther emerged on the scene.
So to answer your question - yes, there are figures in the Papal Catholic Church calling for a "Second Counter-Reformation", but it means something different from what you were referring to. There were major structural and theological issues with the Catholic Church in the 19th and the first half of the 20th century which ultimately required the massively revolutionary Second Vatican Council to establish a new status quo. In fact in ADIJ I have actively referenced the preparations to such an effort with the Council of Santiago which should eventually be covered when I resume the TL - that and the coming Constitutional Convention in the US are two absolutely massive turning points which should make the late 1930s and early 1940s a major point in history regardless of any of the many other events occurring in the same period.
Now to answer your original question on the RCC. Red Italy is very much the homeland of the RCC and is the only real accepted Catholic Church available there. Beyond that, Germany has a truly massive RCC following, about evenly split with those supporting the PCC. Belgium is a key stronghold of the RCC and the RCC is spreading like wildfire through Ireland and in Poland they have found major inroads as well. Hungary is firmly in the PCC sphere, but struggle with the spread of the RCC, particularly in poorer communities. France is firmly PCC alongside Iberia and Sicily, but there are many who are intrigued by the ideas coming out of the RCC's seminary schools. That should cover things for the most part.
As for the Orthodox Churches, the PCC is making inroads in the Balkans, where the strong integralist model is seen with particular appeal by authority figures in the bureaucracy and church. However, the last thing the PCC would do is admit acceptance of any Christian faith that runs counter to their doctrines - it would fundamentally undermine their argument in the theological struggle with the RCC if there were to do so. It is a complicated matter and while secularism was originally viewed as the greatest threat faced by the Catholic Church, the emergence of the RCC has very much turned that on its head. It is no longer a matter of reconciling Christian differences in the face of growing atheism, but rather a struggle to prove that their brand of the Catholic Church is the right one, and that their opponents are heretics destined for hellfire.
Hope that answers your questions.
trinity
Banned
With the Papal Catholic Church virtually waging spiritual war on the Revolutionaries and state Protestantism coming under increasing challenge from secualristic elements of government, has the Orthodox Church as introduced into Germany and the rest of the Western World by the significant White Russian diasporas residing there made significant inroads amongst the native populations, more due to a lack of significant opposition than anything else?
This is something that has puzzled me for years up until now, but why did the Orthodox Church never achieve the same degree of spreading out of their native, established countries compared to Catholicism or Protestantism during the mass conversions to Christianity that characterized colonialism and the concurrent Age of Empires?
No, not really. You have the orthodox diaspora, but there aren't really any significant conversions. If anything people turn to more esoteric religious movements if the RCC isn't "weird" enough for them.
Basically because they weren't colonising like the Catholic and Protestant powers. Geography is the key factor here - you had the Russians turn their colonial ambitions towards Siberia where they were met with large Islamic powers. Mass conversions are far, far harder to do between the Abrahamic religions outside of concerted, long term efforts, compared to more unorganized religions. Just consider how long the Balkans were under Ottoman rule and how widespread Orthodox Christianity remained up to the modern day as an example. By contrast, see how widespread Christianity became in animist Africa.
trinity
Banned
Well, even by RCC standards, the Orthodox Church's various religious rituals and practices are highly mystical and ostentatious even when compared to, say, virtually any other Abrahamic sect.
It seems that USSR is not Going to war anytime soon. So @Zulfurium , what is USSR's plan for the global communist revolution?
Uhhhh. Pass?
There are some assumptions in that statement which aren't necessarily born out by what has been shown in the TL so far. That said, the Soviet Republic has focused heavily on Asia throughout the 1930s with great success, and as mentioned began to turn more actively towards Europe at the tail end of the decade. Particularly the intelligence leaks in Germany and rise of the Conservative Bloc there have served to greatly increase tensions and could well boil over in one form or another. At the same time we have Communists making advances not only in East Asia, but in South America and to a much lesser extent Africa. Tensions are rising between the ideological blocs and the divides between them are starting to calcify.
I would expect so. His artistic sense would still be there and he should have plenty of experiences to write about and inspire him. Think he would acquire success and fame perhaps similar to OTL. Honestly, Hemingway is not a figure I have dug into in much detail so if someone has alternate ideas I would be happy to see them attempt a bio feature.
Just in general, if people have particular figures they want to explore or topics to write about I am always more than happy to provide feedback and guidance on guest sections. Working my way steadfastly through my novel (tough going, but honestly incredibly rewarding when things just click) so I haven't had much time to work on the TL at this point, so it would be amazing if others would help fill the vacuum. Ombra has already done so a couple times, but if anyone else is interested I am always keeping an eye on my PMs.
So war may happen between USSR and Germany?Uhhhh. Pass?