Until every drop of blood is paid - A more radical American Civil War

So something I can't remember but has anything like the Great Locomotive Chase happened? Because if it hasn't something like that does need to happen.
 
That is interesting. Well, your Civil War timeline is very good and unique in my opinion.
Oooh, those are both pretty good. I'm currently working my way through both.
Thanks! I think it's because I spend a good amount of time in Civil War, reading books about it or writing the TL, so I would be overwhelmed if I also read TLs about it here.


I feel your "reading material for years," though with me it's more a list of books I'd like to buy and read. I'm curious, though - how do you know where to research if you haven't read the books first?
Because each chapter is focused on one aspect of the war and the books or articles I use are also focused on one aspect usually, I know where to check if I want additional information in a given topic. Like, if I'm talking about slavery I use Freedom National by Oakes, in updates about the Peninsula I used Rafuse's McClellan's War, for the West I check Chernow's Grant, and so on...

So something I can't remember but has anything like the Great Locomotive Chase happened? Because if it hasn't something like that does need to happen.
I actually haven't heard of that event. What is it about?
 
I haven't read that TL, because I'm not very knowledgeable about African history and also because it seems like a daunting task. But after skimming through, it seems the Sea Islands were an independent republic, albeit briefly?
To elaborate on what the other poster was hinting at towards the Sea Islands in Male Rising, it's not really that they're independent, so much as it has a genuine slave rising in the early portion of the Civil War. The president of the US cuts a deal with the Sea Islands' partisans and their representatives, making a deal where the Gullah-Geechee are treated somewhere between a co-belligerent Native nation and happening to occupy the only remaining territory of a "legitimate and loyal state government" of Georgia, so as to take advantage of the territory and black soldiers without provoking the white supremacist political factions too much.

While the lead-up to that was more detailed in the TL, involving a lot of ripples and butterflies from the original POD in Brazil and West Africa, the part that might be more interesting to you is the rising on the Sea Islands leads to a a source of inspiration for the Great Rising among the slaves as well as doing some internal state-building to secure their own freedom on the Islands. This visible and well-known faction founded by rebellious slaves leads to a greater united identity and "cultural myth", which both leads to Gullah becoming an enduring and more widespread language among Freedmen and leads to a lot more Freedmen-founded self-defense organizations which manage to preserve their rights against Jim Crow in some of the states of the former Confederacy as well as provide destabilizing influence to the neighboring states where Jim Crow did take root.
 
I haven't read that TL, because I'm not very knowledgeable about African history and also because it seems like a daunting task. But after skimming through, it seems the Sea Islands were an independent republic, albeit briefly?
Daunting indeed, though just getting up to the point of the American Civil War isn't that bad. And I wasn't knowledgeable about African history myself before I started readying (no more than you get from playing that region in EU4 at any rate), but I sure did learn a lot about it while reading.
While the lead-up to that was more detailed in the TL, involving a lot of ripples and butterflies from the original POD in Brazil and West Africa, the part that might be more interesting to you is the rising on the Sea Islands leads to a a source of inspiration for the Great Rising among the slaves as well as doing some internal state-building to secure their own freedom on the Islands. This visible and well-known faction founded by rebellious slaves leads to a greater united identity and "cultural myth", which both leads to Gullah becoming an enduring and more widespread language among Freedmen and leads to a lot more Freedmen-founded self-defense organizations which manage to preserve their rights against Jim Crow in some of the states of the former Confederacy as well as provide destabilizing influence to the neighboring states where Jim Crow did take root.
IIRC The Sea Island Republics were also instrumental in smuggling weapons into South Carolina, which contributed to the rising's success.

Now I wonder if it's possible we'll see a truly large-scale slave uprising behind CSA lines in TTL.
 
For anybody interested, I was listening to this lecture on the history of Protestantism on the issue of Slavery, with a section focusing on the slavery conflict in the United States starting at around the 35 minute mark. If @Red_Galiray hasn't seen it yet, it might be a useful source for the issues faced by the religious opponents and defenders of slavery.

 
Here's the link to the wiki page
Seems like a crazy but fun event. Since neither Johnston nor Thomas are likely to jump into action any time soon, I could put it in a future update when we return to East Tennessee.

Freedmen-founded self-defense organizations which manage to preserve their rights against Jim Crow in some of the states of the former Confederacy as well as provide destabilizing influence to the neighboring states where Jim Crow did take root
I think greater use of Black Union soldiers in the war and the occupation should account for that, especially now that fighting terror with terror has become normalized.

Daunting indeed, though just getting up to the point of the American Civil War isn't that bad. And I wasn't knowledgeable about African history myself before I started readying (no more than you get from playing that region in EU4 at any rate), but I sure did learn a lot about it while reading.
Is there anything interesting about Latin America there?

Now I wonder if it's possible we'll see a truly large-scale slave uprising behind CSA lines in TTL.
I think some insurrections are inevitable as the war draws to a close, since freedmen will need to defend themselves against the Confederates and assert their independence.

For anybody interested, I was listening to this lecture on the history of Protestantism on the issue of Slavery, with a section focusing on the slavery conflict in the United States starting at around the 35 minute mark. If @Red_Galiray hasn't seen it yet, it might be a useful source for the issues faced by the religious opponents and defenders of slavery.

Thank you for the video. It's truly disgusting to me how some "Men of God" tried to justify slavery. This might be especially useful in the aftermath when the Church became one of the pillars of the Black community.
 
"My very large and racially superior brain cannot process why these people that I dehumanise, traumatise, and undernourish, are so stupid and lazy."
The same people who built their mansions and cleared and cultivated their fields.

Where lazy = "won't work harder than necessary for my profit".
Foner raises a good point regarding this double standard. In the aftermath of emancipation, when a White man worked just to maintain himself and his family he was a self sufficient yeoman, a Jeffersonian hero and a great and honest worker. When a Black man sought only self sufficiency he was lazy, worthless and indolent - Black men weren't lazy only when they worked in White plantations.
 
If you're interested in the Pipe Creek line, I strongly recommend the Gettysburg alternate history trilogy by Newt Gingrich (yes, that Newt Gingrich.) He has Lee follow Longstreet's plan after the first day of Gettysburg, flank Meade, capture the Union supply base at Westminster, and destroy the Army of the Potomac on the Pipe Creek line. Gingrich has the good sense to keep modern politics out of his novel, and it's well-written and very well researched.

Gingrich might agree with you - he names the battle after the small village of Union Mills.
The Gingrich books are incredible, my only issue is that the last book feels like he intended the CSA to lose but wrote himself into a corner.
 
I have never read them but that is the danger of trying to increase the drama. Sometimes you can write yourself into a corner because you want to make it seem like an even bigger fall when the bad guy is loose. There is something to be said for simply going about things in a normal manner without having too much drama.
 
The Gingrich books are incredible, my only issue is that the last book feels like he intended the CSA to lose but wrote himself into a corner.
What makes you say that? There's definitely a dramatic change in Lee's fortunes, but looking back over the trilogy, it seems to me like the natural culmination of trends from the previous books - Lee's shortage of men and logistics train - combined with his suddenly facing Grant's fresh army for the first time.
 
What makes you say that? There's definitely a dramatic change in Lee's fortunes, but looking back over the trilogy, it seems to me like the natural culmination of trends from the previous books - Lee's shortage of men and logistics train - combined with his suddenly facing Grant's fresh army for the first time.
SPOILER ALERT!


Probably has to do with during the main battle of the last book where Lee's army is literally about to overrun Grant himself. However due to Henry Hunt having found some cannon and canister shells which he sets up on the intersections surrounding Grant they get red misted out of existence. Even then they start to over run one of the batteries until one of the union soldiers fires it off the cannon with the ramrod literally still in it. The way it's written in the book is really rushed and feels like Gingrich realized just before writing it that he had written it to where Lee would win without some miracle for the union..
 
Top