Until every drop of blood is paid - A more radical American Civil War

Just wanted to point out that contraband camps in the Mississippi Valley, the Sea Islands and Kentucky/Missouri are mostly stable, while they are travelling in Tennessee and Virginia/Maryland.
Noted.
Now that you mention the Sea Islands, have you ever read Malê Rising?

Some interesting things came out of the Sea Islands during that timeline's US Civil War.
This is another point of division between Republicans in the post-war era.
People are a fractious lot.
Yes, it seems I was worrying needlessly.
Likewise, writers are worrisome.
 
A question for those knowledgeable about military affairs (paging @Arnold d.c if he's around), but my understanding is that Lee's Pennsylvania campaign ended at Gettysburg because there are many paths and roads leading to the town. Furthermore, it's close to the Maryland/Pennsylvania border, which would allow Lee to strike either Baltimore or Harrisburg. Taking into account that Maryland has been devastated by two years of warfare and there are little supplies there for Lee's army to take, while Pennsylvania is still unscathed, and that Lee's primary objective is defeating the Army of the Susquehanna and then go on to "liberate" Maryland, would it be realistic or cheap for the shootdown to take place in Gettysburg? Personally, I would prefer other location to not simply repeat OTL, but I'd like to hear everyone's opinions first.

Edit: Also, two thoughts that intrigued me, both regarding capitals. Now, I do think that Annapolis would remain the capital of Maryland, and Washington that of the United States, but I do wonder if it would be at all possible for the capitals to permanently change to Frederick and Philadelphia respectively. Frederick was the seat of the Unionist government during the initial part of the war and they would be able to move back to Annapolis only after the Battle of Anacostia liberated Washington - so it would be technically possible for them to turn around and designate Frederick as the new capital if they really wanted it, especially since Frederick took in the Maryland Unionists that have fled the rebels and the burnt Washington.

And you hit on the reason why such a writing style tends to get used so often on mass-market history books. It helps ground the events for readers, and allows the writer to flex and take advantage of phrases and slang that wouldn't normally come to mind.
I must admit is a quite pleasant style, if I say so myself.

That makes sense and I suppose that for production and (obviously) societal reasons its not viable to move them north.
Indeed, some measures will have to be taken to assure racist Northerners that the great majority of African Americans are staying in the South. The "rehearsals" for reconstruction will be analyzed after the battle.

Noted.
Now that you mention the Sea Islands, have you ever read Malê Rising?

Some interesting things came out of the Sea Islands during that timeline's US Civil War.

People are a fractious lot.

Likewise, writers are worrisome.
I haven't read that TL, because I'm not very knowledgeable about African history and also because it seems like a daunting task. But after skimming through, it seems the Sea Islands were an independent republic, albeit briefly?
 
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A question for those knowledgeable about military affairs (paging @Arnold d.c if he's around), but my understanding is that Lee's Pennsylvania campaign ended at Gettysburg because there are many paths and roads leading to the town. Furthermore, it's close to the Maryland/Pennsylvania border, which would allow Lee to strike either Baltimore or Harrisburg. Taking into account that Maryland has been devastated by two years of warfare and there are little supplies there for Lee's army to take, while Pennsylvania is still unscathed, and that Lee's primary objective is defeating the Army of the Susquehanna and then go on to "liberate" Maryland, would it be realistic or cheap for the shootdown to take place in Gettysburg? Personally, I would prefer other location to not simply repeat OTL, but I'd like to hear everyone's opinions first.
In a sense, it was kind of natural that the armies would meet each other at Gettysburg. With the route Lee took, if the Federal troops were at southern Pennsylvania or western Maryland, the Federal troops were bound to move through Gettysburg at some point. Regarding Harrisburg and Baltimore, I don't think Lee had any plans to attack the latter while Harrisburg was more of a side objective for Lee. In his orders to Ewell, Harrisburg was to be captured if possible for a blow to the Union political machine and morale. Given that Lee is aiming to retake Maryland, Lee has to turn south at some point and as such he will move through Gettysburg (or take the mountainous path to Fairfield).

If you are looking for an alternative battlefield, I would suggest looking at the Pipe Creek Line. The Pipe Creek Line was in Maryland and was Meade's original choice for a battlefield. Pipe Creek offered a terrain that was so favorable to the defender such that the high ground south of Gettysburg looked like a deathtrap. However, when Reynolds engaged the enemy at Gettysburg and Hancock backed Reynolds' decision to fight on the high ground south of Gettysburg, Meade dropped the Pipe Creek Line and ordered the rest of the army to concentrate at Gettysburg. Given that Reynolds is in command, it does seem unlikely that such an aggressive general and proud Pennsylvanian would choose to stay on the defensive at Maryland while Lee plunders his home state.
 
Just finished binging this timeline and bravo good sir, this is without a doubt my favorite Civil War timeline on this site! I really appreciate your mastery of the political and social aspects of the war, as well as depicting the people and societies not as static actors, but as dynamic and changing with the times. Looking forward to seeing where this goes!
 
I didn't get notified of a new chapter, four pages i know have to go through.
I have the same problem, that's part of why I try to comment any time I can think of something to say. Anything that keeps your involvement in a thread fresh will keep giving you notifications.

I've lost my place in so many timelines this way, it's pretty sad. I lost my place in No Southern Strategy, Blue Skies in Camelot, An Age of Miracles, I almost lost my place in Crimson Banners Fly, and so on and so on.
 
If you are looking for an alternative battlefield, I would suggest looking at the Pipe Creek Line. The Pipe Creek Line was in Maryland and was Meade's original choice for a battlefield.
Thanks for your help. I like this plan. My only objection is that Pipe Creek does not seem like the name of a great battle :p Of course, Waterloo, Trafalgar, Hastings must have sounded like plebian, normal places, and they only sound like great names for a battle because a great battle took place there in the first place.

Just finished binging this timeline and bravo good sir, this is without a doubt my favorite Civil War timeline on this site! I really appreciate your mastery of the political and social aspects of the war, as well as depicting the people and societies not as static actors, but as dynamic and changing with the times. Looking forward to seeing where this goes!
Thank you! I'm glad you have liked this project, and I'm honored you consider it your favorite. I really appreciate that you took the time to say so.

I didn't get notified of a new chapter, four pages i know have to go through.
I have the same problem, that's part of why I try to comment any time I can think of something to say. Anything that keeps your involvement in a thread fresh will keep giving you notifications.

I've lost my place in so many timelines this way, it's pretty sad. I lost my place in No Southern Strategy, Blue Skies in Camelot, An Age of Miracles, I almost lost my place in Crimson Banners Fly, and so on and so on.
I really don't know what's up with that. I think that it would be good for people to receive notifications not only when a news post is added, but also when a new threadmark is added. That way people would be sure it's an update and would never miss it. I always wonder where you are @haider najib since you have been with the TL since the start and miss your comments whenever you miss an update.

I think @Tjakari is right about keeping active. It would be very sad to see him "lose his place" in this TL too, since I always appreciate his comments.
 
If you are looking for an alternative battlefield, I would suggest looking at the Pipe Creek Line. The Pipe Creek Line was in Maryland and was Meade's original choice for a battlefield. Pipe Creek offered a terrain that was so favorable to the defender such that the high ground south of Gettysburg looked like a deathtrap. However, when Reynolds engaged the enemy at Gettysburg and Hancock backed Reynolds' decision to fight on the high ground south of Gettysburg, Meade dropped the Pipe Creek Line and ordered the rest of the army to concentrate at Gettysburg. Given that Reynolds is in command, it does seem unlikely that such an aggressive general and proud Pennsylvanian would choose to stay on the defensive at Maryland while Lee plunders his home state.
If you're interested in the Pipe Creek line, I strongly recommend the Gettysburg alternate history trilogy by Newt Gingrich (yes, that Newt Gingrich.) He has Lee follow Longstreet's plan after the first day of Gettysburg, flank Meade, capture the Union supply base at Westminster, and destroy the Army of the Potomac on the Pipe Creek line. Gingrich has the good sense to keep modern politics out of his novel, and it's well-written and very well researched.
Thanks for your help. I like this plan. My only objection is that Pipe Creek does not seem like the name of a great battle :p
Gingrich might agree with you - he names the battle after the small village of Union Mills.
 
If you're interested in the Pipe Creek line, I strongly recommend the Gettysburg alternate history trilogy by Newt Gingrich (yes, that Newt Gingrich.) He has Lee follow Longstreet's plan after the first day of Gettysburg, flank Meade, capture the Union supply base at Westminster, and destroy the Army of the Potomac on the Pipe Creek line. Gingrich has the good sense to keep modern politics out of his novel, and it's well-written and very well researched.

Gingrich might agree with you - he names the battle after the small village of Union Mills.
I can vouch for the novel even if Lee is more Lost Cause Lee then I'd like. It's overall a good read though.
 
I have the same problem, that's part of why I try to comment any time I can think of something to say. Anything that keeps your involvement in a thread fresh will keep giving you notifications.

I've lost my place in so many timelines this way, it's pretty sad. I lost my place in No Southern Strategy, Blue Skies in Camelot, An Age of Miracles, I almost lost my place in Crimson Banners Fly, and so on and so on.
I've noticed that happening from time to time as well, so every few days I'll check the 'Watched Threads' link at the top of the page to make sure nothing slipped by.
 
If you're interested in the Pipe Creek line, I strongly recommend the Gettysburg alternate history trilogy by Newt Gingrich (yes, that Newt Gingrich.) He has Lee follow Longstreet's plan after the first day of Gettysburg, flank Meade, capture the Union supply base at Westminster, and destroy the Army of the Potomac on the Pipe Creek line. Gingrich has the good sense to keep modern politics out of his novel, and it's well-written and very well researched.
I... is it bad that I don't want to read it because I dislike Gingrich? It seems just bizarre that he and I share alternatehistory as a hobby.
 
I... is it bad that I don't want to read it because I dislike Gingrich? It seems just bizarre that he and I share alternatehistory as a hobby.
It's actually a pretty good trilogy. His politics aside (and if this were Chat, boy would I go off like a volcano!), Gingrich and his co-author actually deliver a very well-researched and tolerably well-written book. I recommend it--much better than Turtledove!
 
We all share beliefs with some people among the 7.8 billion in the world who aren't compatible with us otherwise - just like sharing birthdays.

Anyway, regarding Gettysburg, remember that Lee needed shoes and if I recall there were show stores he wanted to raid. No, not like today where you can go into a New Balance Outlet, but you know what I mean. :)

So, 5 months earlier, they won't be in as dire a need of shoes/boots, so you can easily have him going elsewhere.
 
It's actually a pretty good trilogy. His politics aside (and if this were Chat, boy would I go off like a volcano!), Gingrich and his co-author actually deliver a very well-researched and tolerably well-written book. I recommend it--much better than Turtledove!
There are exactly two things I agree with Gingrich on: Alternate History is fun, and we need to invest more in the space program.
Oh well, I guess everybody needs a hobby. I'm still going through my long backlog of Civil War books, but maybe I'll read Gingrich's books in the future.

We all share beliefs with some people among the 7.8 billion in the world who aren't compatible with us otherwise - just like sharing birthdays.

Anyway, regarding Gettysburg, remember that Lee needed shoes and if I recall there were show stores he wanted to raid. No, not like today where you can go into a New Balance Outlet, but you know what I mean. :)

So, 5 months earlier, they won't be in as dire a need of shoes/boots, so you can easily have him going elsewhere.
Virginia hasn't been as devastated by war yet. The Peninsula Campaign did result in some damage, but it was McClellan, not Sherman, who was in charge. So much of Virginia is intact and capable of providing food for Lee and his men.
 
Oh well, I guess everybody needs a hobby. I'm still going through my long backlog of Civil War books, but maybe I'll read Gingrich's books in the future.
Not to derail your thread, but do you have a favorite Civil War alternate history?
Or do you mean by that just books on the Civil War?
 
Not to derail your thread, but do you have a favorite Civil War alternate history?
Or do you mean by that just books on the Civil War?
It may be difficult to believe, but I actually haven't read any TLs about the American Civil War. I am quite fond of @EnglishCanuck's TL, which I don't think it's technically an ACW timeline but a Trent's Affair one, though I still have a lot to read before catching up. My favorite TLs here are The Footprint of Mussolini and The Falcon Cannot Hear (I've read it twice). Oh, and also I loved God is a Frenchman.

I actually meant just Civil War books. You see, I have collected a good amount of books for research, but haven't read them all. I usually only check them when I need information for an update. The result is a long backlog, so I'll have reading material for years. Currently, I'm reading Chernow's Grant.
 
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It may be difficult to believe, but I actually haven't read any TLs about the American Civil War. I am quite fond of @EnglishCanuck's TL, which I don't think it's technically an ACW timeline but a Trent's Affair one, though I still have a lot to read before catching up. My favorite TLs here are The Footprint of Mussolini and The Falcon Cannot Hear (I've read it twice). Oh, and also I loved God is a Frenchman.
That is interesting. Well, your Civil War timeline is very good and unique in my opinion.
Oooh, those are both pretty good. I'm currently working my way through both.
 
This part being, I suspect, the key one in Gingrich's literary career....
Could be; however it was, the end book was good. Maybe I'll read some of William Forstchen's non-coauthored books someday, too - his Lost Regiment series looks fun.
You see, I have collected a good amount of books for research, but haven't read them all. I usually only check them when I need information for an update. The result is a long backlog, so I'll have reading material for years.
I feel your "reading material for years," though with me it's more a list of books I'd like to buy and read. I'm curious, though - how do you know where to research if you haven't read the books first?
 
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