Canada uses NPT (Sellers threads) now but at least up to the late 1800' BSW (Whitworth threads) or similar were common here as well. Not sure when we entirely switched over.
Sir John Valentine Carden survives.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
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Just on the whole Australia tangent...
1. From a practical standpoint I do think it would be directly relevant to the timeline if the UK shipped the production tools and jigs for tanks going out of production to Australia so they could independently build their own gear to be used at home, Singapore, Malaya, Borneo, Hong Kong*, Ceylon, Egypt, etc., as it would reduce the burden on the UK's limited facilities and manpower.
2. Although others may disagree on the usefulness of the discussion of rail gauges and the capacity of different port facilities, I actually have found that absolutely fascinating. So although I don't want to take away from Allan's request to stay a little more on topic, just a quick thank you to those who have gone into some of those details as for those of us who don't know that information, it does provide clarity on parameters that otherwise we may not have been aware of. Thank you guys.
1. From a practical standpoint I do think it would be directly relevant to the timeline if the UK shipped the production tools and jigs for tanks going out of production to Australia so they could independently build their own gear to be used at home, Singapore, Malaya, Borneo, Hong Kong*, Ceylon, Egypt, etc., as it would reduce the burden on the UK's limited facilities and manpower.
2. Although others may disagree on the usefulness of the discussion of rail gauges and the capacity of different port facilities, I actually have found that absolutely fascinating. So although I don't want to take away from Allan's request to stay a little more on topic, just a quick thank you to those who have gone into some of those details as for those of us who don't know that information, it does provide clarity on parameters that otherwise we may not have been aware of. Thank you guys.
I doubt D-Day happens much earlier. The build up required will take time no matter what and short of a pre-war POD that actively works towards it I find it hard to imagine, not completely out of the question though.
An earlier invasion of Sicily is the logical outcome of an earlier victory in North Africa. It would also be a good place for America's first combat experience in Europe. The thing is any invasion of Sicily would likely not happen much if any earlier than the OTL Operation Torch. There are a few reasons for this. The first is that Britain will start to look at what is next after rapping up North Africa and Sicily is the best target. The preparations for any seaborne invasion will take time however and Britain will also need to rest and re-equip it's forces before any invasion, in either scenario it is hard to see Britain being ready much sooner than 42 at best. This is because Japan happens, either after a few months or just after the victory. Either way Australia and New Zeeland will likely want their forces to go home after a victory in North Africa because of issues with Japan. Then once the war with Japan starts that will distract quite a bit for several months at least, though things could well be going better for Britain TTL. Back in Europe though and once America is ready to participate in a joint operation Sicily can be invaded. It is likely going to be a hard fight for the Americans and will need quite a heavy British involvement still but the Allies will win. What comes next will have to wait until 43 but here is where things may vary more, especially with what has happened in France.
Unlikely, the Logistics don't support it really. Southern England is a much better port of embarkation for an invasion.
Now assuming the French are on side early enough, say Mid 41 as the Germans and especially the Italians pressure the Vichy into letting there troops in so they can salvage North Africa, that could have some interesting effects. The first is that after Sicily you have Sardinia and then Corsica invaded. That does two things, firstly gets the Americans and French forces some more combat experience so they don't have to learn a lot during an invasion of continental Europe. Secondly it gives the French some Prestige in helping liberate French territory, now that second one, particularly if De Gaulle is a major factor with this early a POD means it may not happen. An Italian Invasion is also likely to happen however so it all depends.
But which “Imperial“ measurement? Until the thirties the British and Canadian Inches were ever so slightly different and neither matched the US inch. I believe the Canadian inch was basically a compromise between the US and UK versions. The difference was tiny but still annoying for precision work, so it must have been all sorts of fun setting up a machinery of different ages and origin using similarly varied blueprints.
28 September 1940. Larkhill, England.
allanpcameron
Donor
28 September 1940. Larkhill, England.
The second new vehicle from Vickers in a month had arrived to be examined by the Royal Artillery. The A9 hull had been fitted with a Royal Navy mounting for the 2-pdr pompom to provide a mobile anti-aircraft platform. Part of the problem for the Royal Artillery was that they had very limited experience of the actual gun. They had been expecting a double mounting, but the Vickers team had to admit that there hadn’t been a way of mounting it on the hull without it becoming top heavy. The mount had been designed by the Royal Navy for twin Oerlikon 20mm cannons. The Vickers team thought it would probably work with the lighter Swiss cannons, but the pompom was just too big a beast, even stripped back the way Vickers had put it into the turret of the A11.
The vehicle, just like the Birch Gun, was obviously a proof of concept vehicle, not meant for production as it was. The pompom gun was prone to stoppages, and needed constant nursing, which the Royal Artillery men got impatient with. The A9 hull was adequate for moving the gun around and stable enough when it was persuaded to fire. There were problems with the mounting, which the Vickers team were quick to admit. However, the gun had full traverse and elevation allowing it to work effectively. The decision had been made to provide limited armour protection for the crew. A large wrap-around shield for the gun had been created, but rejected. Instead, Vickers had opted to create a casement, with armour coming up to almost chest height level for the crew standing around the gun. If they came under fire, they could easily duck down for cover.
Otherwise, the idea was a good one. It would have the ability to keep up with armoured formations, and go into action quicker than a towed version, which had advantages. To the Royal Artillery men who were familiar with it, the Bofors 40mm anti-aircraft gun would have been a much better choice, better even than the proposed two 20mm Oerlikons. Once again, the initial report was unfavourable about the vehicle itself, but asked that a specification for a Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun with a Bofors 40mm gun on a suitable tracked hull.
NB text in italic differs from OTL. Obviously none of this happened.
The second new vehicle from Vickers in a month had arrived to be examined by the Royal Artillery. The A9 hull had been fitted with a Royal Navy mounting for the 2-pdr pompom to provide a mobile anti-aircraft platform. Part of the problem for the Royal Artillery was that they had very limited experience of the actual gun. They had been expecting a double mounting, but the Vickers team had to admit that there hadn’t been a way of mounting it on the hull without it becoming top heavy. The mount had been designed by the Royal Navy for twin Oerlikon 20mm cannons. The Vickers team thought it would probably work with the lighter Swiss cannons, but the pompom was just too big a beast, even stripped back the way Vickers had put it into the turret of the A11.
The vehicle, just like the Birch Gun, was obviously a proof of concept vehicle, not meant for production as it was. The pompom gun was prone to stoppages, and needed constant nursing, which the Royal Artillery men got impatient with. The A9 hull was adequate for moving the gun around and stable enough when it was persuaded to fire. There were problems with the mounting, which the Vickers team were quick to admit. However, the gun had full traverse and elevation allowing it to work effectively. The decision had been made to provide limited armour protection for the crew. A large wrap-around shield for the gun had been created, but rejected. Instead, Vickers had opted to create a casement, with armour coming up to almost chest height level for the crew standing around the gun. If they came under fire, they could easily duck down for cover.
Otherwise, the idea was a good one. It would have the ability to keep up with armoured formations, and go into action quicker than a towed version, which had advantages. To the Royal Artillery men who were familiar with it, the Bofors 40mm anti-aircraft gun would have been a much better choice, better even than the proposed two 20mm Oerlikons. Once again, the initial report was unfavourable about the vehicle itself, but asked that a specification for a Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun with a Bofors 40mm gun on a suitable tracked hull.
NB text in italic differs from OTL. Obviously none of this happened.
allanpcameron
Donor
Good question. I liked the way @Astrodragon dealt with it, having the Eden mission avoiding British involvement, except in Crete. Not sure yet what will happen, I'm just making this up as I go along.
Allan.
Crete yes , it was very close OTL so some more aircraft or mobile troops can easily swing it. Greece itself however is a goner short of ASB intervention ( the Greeks assessment of needing an extra 20 divisions was probably an underestimate )
Not by WW2:
"As a result of the definitions above, the U.S. inch was effectively defined as 25.4000508 mm (with a reference temperature of 68 degrees Fahrenheit) and the UK inch at 25.399977 mm (with a reference temperature of 62 degrees Fahrenheit). When Carl Edvard Johansson started manufacturing gauge blocks in inch sizes in 1912, Johansson's compromise was to manufacture gauge blocks with a nominal size of 25.4mm, with a reference temperature of 20 degrees Celsius, accurate to within a few parts per million of both official definitions. Because Johansson's blocks were so popular, his blocks became the de facto standard for manufacturers internationally,[27][28] with other manufacturers of gauge blocks following Johansson's definition by producing blocks designed to be equivalent to his.[29]
In 1930, the British Standards Institution adopted an inch of exactly 25.4 mm. The American Standards Association followed suit in 1933. By 1935, industry in 16 countries had adopted the "industrial inch" as it came to be known,[30][31] effectively endorsing Johansson's pragmatic choice of conversion ratio.[27]"
He started selling them in 1912, my guess is most Canadian machinery would be on the new pattern.
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I think a few tank units on Crete may allow the allies to keep the beaches secure and have a few with infantry attached to take backed the air fields.
Not sure how practical that is though. But if a good number of greek units can get to Crete would it be better to equip them out of British stock or maybe use whatever was captured from the Italians at least initially.
Well, it wasn't just them avoiding it.
As a result of naval actions, O'Connor got another 3 weeks, long enough to get just close enough that everyone basically said 'it's so close now, finish it and then we'll do Greece'. Of course, the armour and transport was mainly written off, so there really wasn't enough for Greece, so things got delayed and by the time they got the go-ahead the writing was on the wall and they didn't get seriously involved on the mainland.
This time you don't have the naval advantage, but you have better and more reliable tanks, so a similar result is possible (but for different reasons)
What timeline was this in? Was it on this site? Or was it an idea you posted elsewhere on this thread?
This was in The Whale has Wings. It's still on here if you want to go through rather a lot of comments (especially ones on food), or the three books are available on Amazon (no comments, but maps and stuff)
allanpcameron
Donor
Sorry I thought you'd done it Forge of Weyland. I don't know where I read it, I must have been dreaming...
Edited to add, it was @sonofpegasus in Peerless Air Ministry whose Eden mission manages to get the Greeks to say:
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I never heard of Carl Edvard Johansson - and my wife is a quality engineer. That's good, and inch is an inch. At least everyone is singing out of the same hymnal... Now if they can get to the same page and verse (thread standards, hydraulic fittings, etc) it will all go smooth.
Dreaming of Whales is a perfectly reasonable thing
Anything done with better tanks is going to be different though. Even if they manage to take out the Italians before the forces get taken for Greece, there wont be the delay I arranged, so its more likely that someone will decide to aid Greece.
In fact, doing better would likely mean more pressure than OTL - after all, if the Italians can be cleared out so fast, what could possibly go wrong in a Greek intervention?
That's not a TOG! That's a TOGglet! A TOGson! A TOGgle? A microTOGsm...
Oh God, they're arguing about Australia again...
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