perfectgeneral

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I wonder if air dropped/landed supplies could help with the enormous logistic distances in the Western Desert campaign?
Could the forward air bases be resupplied over the beach using landing craft and pre-loaded trucks?
 
The logistics of the Western desert campaign are something I am working on. The distances involved are something I think that the armchair general politicians and pen pushers back in the UK did not fully comprehend. Also the sheer destructive capability on equipment of the environment is another factor.
 
You could supply a 1941 armoured force from the ports of Tobruk and Alexandria via air with C-130's and C-17's. You couldn't supply a meaningful force it with contemporary aircraft. That said better aerial casevac (not from the front line but direct from forward airfields to base hospitals) would save a lot of lives, while more, better transport aircraft moving small, high value items (engine parts and radio equipment), leaving the bulk goods of fuel, food and ammunition to road convoys won't speed the advance but will help maintain striking power at greater distances from the ports.
 
The logistics of the Western desert campaign are something I am working on. The distances involved are something I think that the armchair general politicians and pen pushers back in the UK did not fully comprehend. Also the sheer destructive capability on equipment of the environment is another factor.
Yep, it will be harder to get the logistics right than the actual combat power.

A better Desert Air Force could make the DAKs position even more difficult by hitting Tripoli and the trucks carrying supplies to the front line. But unlikely IMHO to stop 'The Benghazi Handicap" being a feature of the campaign.

Best outcome will be holding Crete. Preventing the paratroop drops from being reinforced through Maleme (sic) and maybe reducing the RN losses. Though I guess resupply convoys will be a feature and still cost ships for a while.

Malta? A stronger defence will change matters in subtle ways. More difficult to suppress making for more losses. RAF bombers able to be based more frequently on on it to strike at Axis convoys while it should be easier to push convoys through to it.

Higher Axis losses of aircraft and air crew, added to the BoB losses, will have some impact on the Eastern Front too. Small but significant, some battles will have less air support, the Red Air Force might be able to do more damage with it's own CAS or interdiction missions.

And so the snow ball gathers more mass and becomes larger and more dangerous as it rolls on down the mountain.
 
The logistics of the Western desert campaign are something I am working on. The distances involved are something I think that the armchair general politicians and pen pushers back in the UK did not fully comprehend. Also the sheer destructive capability on equipment of the environment is another factor.
Which was a bit odd, they'd had men and armour wandering around in the Western desert Force for years, you'd think someone would have pointed out the problems. Or maybe London just didn't listen.
Mind, the Italians and Germans didn't do any better

The only easy (?) way of improving logistics easily is to have sufficient naval and air power in the Eastern Med to allow convoys to be driven closer to the front. Otherwise your on lorries once you leave Egypt.
 

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With Malta, wouldn't there be a need, under any early war circumstance, to ruthlessly prune the logistical train to its simplest parts list? By that I mean one engine type for the planes on the island, preferably single-engine planes (at least till the campaign decisively swings to the British favor), short list of ammunition types, etc. If the island is going to be under siege, then make your supplies as universal as possible.
 
Which was a bit odd, they'd had men and armour wandering around in the Western desert Force for years, you'd think someone would have pointed out the problems. Or maybe London just didn't listen.
Mind, the Italians and Germans didn't do any better

The only easy (?) way of improving logistics easily is to have sufficient naval and air power in the Eastern Med to allow convoys to be driven closer to the front. Otherwise your on lorries once you leave Egypt.
You could do what they did in the WW1 Sinai campaign and build a railway + water pipeline all the way to the front. But that's one of those long-term plans.
 
You could do what they did in the WW1 Sinai campaign and build a railway + water pipeline all the way to the front. But that's one of those long-term plans.
Two problems with that.
  1. Operation Compass was only planned as a large raid/spoiling attack; no one was expecting it to be anywhere near as successful as it was.
  2. All the supplies were going round the Cape.
This puts a limit as to when thinking would turn to supporting a force far from the infrastructure around Egypt, and increases the time it would take to get the necessary supplies from the UK to accomplish this. Some work may be completed with local resources but its going to be a shoestring affair.
 
Two problems with that.
  1. Operation Compass was only planned as a large raid/spoiling attack; no one was expecting it to be anywhere near as successful as it was.
  2. All the supplies were going round the Cape.
This puts a limit as to when thinking would turn to supporting a force far from the infrastructure around Egypt, and increases the time it would take to get the necessary supplies from the UK to accomplish this. Some work may be completed with local resources but its going to be a shoestring affair.
Supplies piled up in Alexandria to an enormous quantity.
Round the cape wasn't a problem unless you needed a specific bit of kit, and had to order it from the U.K.
Once the supply line was established, there was always stuff arriving, with more in transit.
Getting it from Alex to the front was the problem.
Harbours along the coast could help, but most didn't have the capacity to support the whole army.
Reducing the strain on the lorries, by going part way with some of the supplies to Tobruk, Benghazi, or Sirte would, and did, help greatly.
But wasn't used as much as it could have been because the opposition airforce had a say.
I think Benghazi wasn't used much in early '41 because Italian bombers were able to hit it at night, and there was no nightfighting capacity in theatre.
Cant remember where I got that from, but it went some way to explain the logistic problems.
 

Driftless

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A tangent: The British North African force could have benefitted from an earlier appearance of an LST-ish craft, as an adjunct to keep the field forces supplied as they outran their land-based supply lines. They started with the shallow-draft Lake Maricaibo tankers as a make-do model. Maybe a drive-on-drive-off ferry might have worked too. They certainly couldn't carry all the freight, literally or metaphorically, but it might have helped.
 
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I think Benghazi wasn't used much in early '41 because Italian bombers were able to hit it at night, and there was no night fighting capacity in theatre. Cant remember where I got that from, but it went some way to explain the logistic problems.
I think the harbour was full of ships that the Italians had scuttled and they might have demolished the quays too. The transcript of The Mediterranean and Middle East on Hyperwar may confirm that and whether Italian bombing was restricting its use.
 
A tangent: The British North African force could have benefitted from an earlier appearance of an LST-ish craft, as an adjunct to keep the field forces supplied as they outran their land-based supply lines. They started with the shallow Lake Maricaibo tankers as a make-do model.
IIRC form The War at Sea the first LSTs were used for that very purpose in Operation Torch.
Maybe a drive-on-drive-off ferry might have worked too. They certainly couldn't carry all the freight, literally or metaphorically, but it might have helped.
Yes they did and they were known as Landing Ships Sternchute (LSS).
The LSSs, were a adapted from two train ferries and carried three rows LCMs on the deck, which were launched from the centre row through a chute cut into the stern.
They were converted in 1941 and were named Daffodil and Princess Iris. They could carry 13 LCM(1) or 9 LCM(3) and 105 troops.

There were 3 Dale class tankers that were converted while building to Landing Ships Gantry (LSG). They could carry 15 LCM(1) and 215 troops. However, the first one wasn't completed until June 1941.

There were 2 Landing Ships Carrier (LSC) named Empire Charmain and Empire Elaine. They were simple adaptations from standard heavy lift ships with the LCMs deck-stowed and handled by the jumbo derricks. They were manned and operated by the Ministry of War Transport. They could carry 21 LCM(1) and 295 troops. However, they weren't launched until 1942.

3 Glen class Landing Ships Infantry (LSI were completed in 1940. They could carry 1,087 troops, 3 LCM and 24 LCA.

Source: Warships of World War II by H.T. Lenton & J.J. Colledge.

The Glenn class could have been used to support Operation Compass (and for all I know they were) because they were sent to Alexandria in 1940 to take part in the projected invasion of the Dodecanese Islands.
 
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perfectgeneral

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Harbours along the coast could help, but most didn't have the capacity to support the whole army.
Although it wasn't realised OTL until after a Mulberry harbour was lost in a post D-Day storm, Supply Over Beach has the capacity to support a whole army, even if it is an SOB. RAF supply by this means would reduce the overall burden on the roads and in theatre fuel supply. As a proof of concept, it might pave the way for earlier adoption by the army. Although that would require a lot more long range coastal landing craft. An initial order for the RAF might go to the manufacturers of pilot recovery launches. Landing Craft Transport (LCT).

To be clear, these are not craft lowered down from a ship, but load lorries from a beach in Alex and chug out west to the forward base and unload lorries onto a beach there and loop back to Alex.
Mk1 900 mile range First ordered/commissioned OTL (late July 1940/early December 1940)
Mk2 2,700 miles (early Dec 40/early Jun 41)
 
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@sonofpegasus IMHO, what would happen at Med during first half of 1941: would be hybrid of 1 to 3: Churchill being Churchill, would always obsessed by "Soft Underbelly of Europe", a better British air power would only made him even more over-confident. But also thanks for a stronger RAF, more Commonwealth troops would be evacuated to Crete, the island would be much better defend both on the ground and in the sky, which force Unternehmen Merkur to be canceled, for this reason Luftwaffe presence at the Eastern Front was further weaken, but airborne operations were also possible for Axis at that sector.

Logistic would still be prevented Italian Libya to be completely overran, Churchill's fateful decision would still weaken Cyrenaica defense considerably, but stronger Air Power presence at Malta interdict Axis sea lane more successfully. As a result, Unternehmen Sonnenblume was less effective than OTL, Libyan Egyptian coastal border area like Halfaya Pass, Sollum, Misaid and Fort Capuzzo would still held by Commonwealth IATL, which made Operation Brevity, Battleaxe and Crusader (or TTL analog) more successful (as a member pointed out, better air recon might prevent O' Conner's capture).
 
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12.03. Moving goal posts and hitting targets
12.03. Moving goal posts and hitting targets

The planned Hereford version of the HP Hampden had been still born because of the decision to kill of the Napier Dagger engine. Trials with a Hampden with twin Pelides engines had been carried out and the aircraft used for torpedo trials at Gosport. The success of these trials had seen the contract with Short Brothers and Harland amended to one for one hundred and fifty two torpedo Hampdens with Pelides engines. However necessity of expanding Stirling production in Northern Ireland had seen the decision not to order further torpedo Hampdens form Short Brothers and Harland. In late nineteen forty to maintain or actually increase the number of torpedo bombers available to Maritime Command in the face of the failure of both the Botha and the Beaufort the decision had been made to transfer and modify Hampdens from Bomber Command as the new big bombers became available. Long term hopes were pinned on the development of the torpedo carrying Beaufighter.

Raising Beaufighter squadrons to provide Maritime Command with a viable anti shipping strike capability was in progress. The desicion taken earlier to stop the Taurus engine and the Beufort aircraft so that Bristol aircraft could concentrate on the Hercules and the Beaufighter was now fortutasly proving correct . The current Hampden topedo bomber needed a fighter escort and the Beaufighter was the chosen solution. What was also self evedent from trials already carried out was that the Beaufighter could act directly in the strike roll using it’s 20mm cannon and the three inch rocket. The current problem was that even with the Reaper night fighter and the Havoc night fighter entering service in increasing numbers the need for nightfighters overeas meant that Beaufighter night fighter production was continuing. The logic was simple if you were sending Beaufighers overseas then for logistical and operational purposes it was better use tha same type of aircraft as your nightfighter.

Here the Government paranoia over the capture of RDF technology continued to cause problems. The desire by the RAF to send night fighters to Egypt to counter the enemy bombers based in the Dodecadic islands had been delayed by these concerns. Fortunately due to Malta being an Island the risk of capture of equipment from a downed RAF Beaufighter equipped with RDF was low enough that deployment had been approved and by late November Malta had a resident night fighter squadron. Malta now had the latest version of the GCI station and two AMES/GCI mobile units stored in bombproof tunnels as stand by spares in case of the main unit being rendered inoperable. To counter the enemy intelligence service and as practice the AMES/GCI units would be set up and used from different parts of the island so as to confuse the RDF emissions picture that the enemy might be building of the islands defences.

Getting RDF units out to the Middles East and other far flung commands had been a bit of a battle for the AM but by proving that the UK defence system would not be degraded by sending resources abroad this had been achieved by the end of 1940.

It was becoming somewhat obvious that in the Mediterranean naval operations could only proceed if the ships could be provided with air cover. After the BEF’s experience in France the same codicil was being expressed by the Army High Command. This in reality meant that for the upcoming operations in the Mediterranean and Middle eastern area the campaign would become one of airfields. Whilst all Branches of the British military command in the Middle East seemed to accept this as fact London still seemed unconvinced.

Sir Peter Cunliffe-Lister was at times like this, thankful that in Sir Hugh Dowding as CAS he had an ally who was reading from the same script as himself. With Churchill being both the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defence, keeping Churchill’s wilder schemes under control or just supplying constant reality checks was a burden Sir Peter could do without. With the RAF in the Middle East obviously over extended, having Churchill get a bee in his bonnet about the unserviceability of aircraft and the size of the RAF establishment in the Middle East was a distraction that needed to be managed. At the moment the buzz of that particular bee was liable to drown out anything else of importance.

As far as Sir Peter and Sir Hugh were concerned their priorities were to supply the AOC Middle East Command with the resources required to get the task done. With some quarter of a million Italian troops in Libya threatening Egypt’s eastern border and a further third of a million in Italian East Africa that menaced not only Kenya but also threatened the Persian oil fields, that were of critical strategic value to the British. While the Italians in East Africa were fairly isolated from ready aircraft reinforcement the same could not be said for the airbases in Libya. Facing these forces AVM Longmore had as, operation Compass was about to start the grand total of twenty nine operational squadrons. So it was rather distracting that on November the tenth Churchill buttonholed Sir Hugh and bearded him regarding the fact that the RAF had a thousand aircraft in the Middle East and seventeen thousand air personnel. Churchill proposed that this was more than sufficient to keep the thirty and one and a half squadrons in the command in the field. These squadrons required an establishment of three hundred and ninety five operational types. Of these it was to be assumed Churchill stated that three hundred would be available for operations on any given day. Churchill then queried what the six hundred aircraft of non-operational types were doing and what they were used for. Also why if there were over seven hundred operational type aircraft within the command were there less than four hundred being used operationally. Looking at Sir Hugh, Churchill had then asked how as Prime Minister he could justify to the House the huge commitment of manpower and material for so little effect.

Forewarned is for armed and Sir Hugh was not going to respond in anger to such a invidious attack on Longmore. With operation Compass about to start Sir Hugh, when he had heard that Churchill was targeting the RAF Command in Egypt had put together some salient facts.

Not withstanding that the Thirty operational squadrons should have an establishment of three hundred and sixty aircraft with a reserve equal to this number which was greater than the seven hundred operational aircraft in theatre that Churchill had quoted. More importantly with the aircraft operating at the end of a supply chain some eleven thousand miles long via the cape, keeping aircraft operational in the conditions extant in the field were very different than those encountered on an established base in Britain. As an example Sir Hugh used the Bristol Blenheim VII bomber. This aircraft had, for the sand laden skies over the desert, been fitted with special air filters for the engines that had to be cleaned after every five hours of flying. To do this took an aircraft fitter three hours per filter. Whilst it was possible to change a dirty filter for a clean filter in fifteen minutes, at the time of responding to Churchill, the total stock in theatre of new filters stood at three. Despite repeated requests to the Ministry of Supply for more filters to be sent over the preceding months. The fact that the RAF were sending replacement filters out to the Middle East on every aircraft flying there on delivery was also made to emphasise just how dire the supply problems were. The sheer size of the operational area meant that many establishments had to be duplicated hence the need for greater numbers of personnel.

Sir Hugh went on to say that whilst aircraft reinforcement could now start to be sent via the Gold Coast ferry route all stores and spares still had to make the voyage via the Cape of Good Hope which meant that they took ten weeks to arrive from their departure from a British port. This meant that requirements for what should be sent and in what quantity had to be decided some four to six months before they were actually available to the squadrons. During the summers invasion alert for several months all such shipments had ceased on instructions from the Cabinet to ensure sufficient aircraft and spares for home defence. As another example of the nock on effect of delayed shipments the War Hawks currently being shipped to the Gold Coast from America, would once there require fitting with British radios and other essential equipment, including desert air filters before they could be ferried to Egypt. That is why sufficient equipment for these aircraft had been ordered and dispatched as soon as the purchase took place and other priorities set by the government permitted shipment. Spares from the manufacturer such as engines, airframe components, propellers and all the myriad special tools required were being shipped directly from the USA to Suez. Once all these new aircraft were eventually in Egypt they then had to be serviced after the four thousand mile ferry flight and issued to the Squadrons where the pilots then had to be trained how to use them. Here Sir Hugh made another specific point, The Takoradi ferry route had a wastage of around one aircraft in ten. Delays were also being exacerbated by the fact that there were not enough transport aircraft to carry the necessary ferry pilots back from Egypt to the Gold Coast.
 
Apologies for the long hiatus in mew posts but hope that I can now resume regular postings. Here we start to see another major change from OTL, With a strong politically savvy AM and a principled CAS rather than OTL's sycophantic AM (Sir Archibald Sinclair) and a political motivated Trenchardian CAS (Portal) Churchill (without the poisonous Professor Linderman) will find it less easy to ride roughshod over the Cabinet. Antony Eden is not isolated ITL and with allies in The AM his voice is being heard in Cabinet.
 
12.04 Politics and Campaigns.
12.04 Politics and Campaigns.

Antony Eden as The Secretary of State for War had in mid October been sent to the Middle East to ascertain the situation first hand and to consult with the Greek Government regarding British help in their current Campaign in Albania and the possible future aid to Greece in the event of a German led assault via Bulgaria and Yugoslavia. The British Government were only too aware of the vulnerability of not only Greece but also the fragile nature of the continuing neutrality of Turkey. The loss of the latter country to the Axis would seriously threaten the security of the oil fields in Iraq and Iran. In 1939 the French and British Government had given Greece guarantees of aid in the case of an invasion and despite the fall of France there were certain British politicians who considered that Britain was obliged to honour this guarantee and provide all possible assistance to the Greeks should the Germans invade.

In consultation with the Greeks, Antony Eden was informed by the Greek Government of their appreciations of the RAF squadrons sent to their aid so far, however they were concerned that any contingent of the British or Commonwealth army that was sent would be of sufficient size to deter rather than provoke a German assault via Bulgaria. To safeguard Eastern Macedonia and Western Thrace the minimum number of British divisions required was set by the Greeks at twenty.
Even stripping all other areas in the Middle East Command Zone the maximum Antony Eden could offer the Greeks was four divisions. Even if the Eastern Greek provinces were abandoned, including the strategically important port of Salonika, neither the Greeks nor their British Army liaison officers were convinced that the now shorter front could be held with the help of the four divisions offered.
Therefore the Greek Government made it only too clear to Antony Eden that unless he could provide twenty Divisions then the Greek government would refuse to accept any British or Allied troops at all at this time. However further reinforcements of the RAF Greek air component would be welcome. Unfortunately with winter deepening there were no all weather airfields available to host any more RAF squadrons in Greece

Wavell in Egypt had expressed in fairly stark terms that sending any army units to Greece could well make it impossible for the British army to prevent an advance towards the Suez Canal by the Italian forces now encamp in strength within Egypt’s western border. Wavell’s argument was that the defence of Egypt and the destruction of the Italian forces in East Africa was more important that any political gesture to aid the Greeks.
Especially when that help was unwanted and could cause a cascade of defeats in all of the middle eastern theatre. Further talks were to be held with the Greeks for the British forces in Crete to be increased, for the expansion and protection of airfields to facilitate the support of those RAF units fighting in Greece.

To help with the reduction and defeat of the Italian forces in East Africa Sir Antony Eden was convinced that Operation Compass had to be backed to the hilt so as to pin the Italian forces in the Western Dessert in place.

Upon his return to London Sir Antony Eden had, after private discussions with Churchill, given the war Cabinet a full briefing of the situation in the Middle East and his appraisal of how the Government should respond. In later decades historians would argue that Sir Antony Eden’s presentation to and his persuasion of the War Cabinet to focus on North and East Africa rather than the Balkans, as the so called ‘soft underbelly’ of Europe, was one of the most critical junctures in the conflict.

There were still some in the British Government who thought that Britain was committed to aiding Greece with military aid whatever the cost on other fronts, as to abandon Greece would not read well in the American press. How losing a campaign in both North and East Africa could read any better was a point that had been most pointedly made.


Reviewing the results of the recent operations against the Italians the Admiralty had come to some rather startling conclusions and these they had shared with the RAF.
Firstly that the key to the success of operation Compass would be the strangulation of the Italian supply lines to Italian North Africa. As long as Malta held and could act like a fleet of aircraft carriers permanently place only seventy miles south of Scilly then the RAF and the Navy could cut this route by intercepting and sinking the supply ships. The ASV equipped Wellingtons of RAF Maritime Command based on Malta would in the eyes of the Admiralty be a key part in this endeavour.
Being able to track the Italian convoys in all weathers through daylight and dark would make interception of more convoys possible. The Admiralty also suggested if the RAF and the RN started to succeed in choking off the Italian supplies to Libya then it was highly likely that Mussolini would turn to Hitler for help. The quickest way to help would be to send the Luftwaffe south to pound Malta into ruins and deny the central Mediterranean to the RN.

Admiral Sir Arthur Dowding as Fifth Sea Lord and Sir Hugh Dowding as CAS, were of course in constant contact and the possibility of German intervention in the Mediterranean had been discussed and analysed before now, with the building situation in Greece the possible countermoves had again advanced up the agenda.
In their discussions with Sir Antony Eden the consensus that due to the shorter line of communications and logistical advantages for the axis any counter move by the allies would have to initially rely on resources already in theatre. It was a case of, not if but when the Germans came south. The questions was where could they be held.
The consensus between the military arms was that Crete could be held and it was vital that it was, to secure the Eastern Mediterranean sea routes, Malta had to hold and the Italians driven out of North and East Africa before they could be reinforced. Getting political support for this view point was the crux of the matter.
With advice from the AM at the end of the summer, as what was now being called the Battle of Britain was winding down, the government had agreed that in anticipation of a renewal of the air battle over England in the spring of 1941 that Fighter Commands order of battle should be raised to seventy five squadrons.

If the Air Force in the Middle East was to be significantly reinforced, a necessity agreed by all three service commanders in Egypt, then the Home commands would need to be stripped of some squadrons. Getting the Cabinet to accede to such moves was problematical, persuading them that Luftwaffe aircraft could not be in two places at once and the more aircraft the Axis sent to the Mediterranean the less there could be facing the UK was fundamental to getting squadrons released from the home defence force.
Sending more squadrons overseas in anticipation of the Luftwaffe moving had proved a step to far for the government. So the RAF and the Navy were left to make contingency plans only.

To Sir Hugh it was blatantly obvious that when the Luftwaffe joined the attacks on Malta that even the Hurricane Mk III’s that had now arrived would struggle to maintain an air umbrella against the Luftwaffe’s latest version of the Me 109. Therefore the logical response was to get Spitfires on to the Island now. Unfortunately as shown, the Government as yet would not release Spitfire from the UK defence and by the time they did, the operational conditions for Gibraltar club runs might have changed to the point where they were not viable. One option discussed, was to strip the FAA of it’s reserve of Follond Falcons and send them to Malta, The Falcon could make the ferry flight from Gibraltar to Malta, However it’s performance was closer to the Hurricane Mk III than the Spitfire Mk II or Mk III. So the consensus was that this should not be done until or unless Malta’s fighter defence was so eroded that there was no other option but replenish the fighter force as quickly as possible.
 
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