Oddly enough I never play Victoria II. Got hooked on Hearts of Iron II through. Is there anyway to download Victoria II for free or at a fair price?
A New Balance
- Thread starter Jim Smitty
- Start date
I would wait for the next steam sale, as you want the base game, house divided and heart of darkness which total $50 right now, but they should go on periodic sales for at least 50% off if not more. Likely Summer sale if there is not a spring one.
Actually looks like base game was done to $5 during the winter sales along with others during the year, heart of darkness was $6.80 and house divided $3.40. So just wait until the spring or summer sale to pick them up.
The old Chinese proverb is showing up big time then.
"Interesting Times"
For now is the US and France still on good terms? France is an ally of Russia, who has pissed off the US. Britain is buttering up with the Germans, but the Germans aided the Russians. Damn you need a spread sheet to keep track who will ally or work with whom.
Keep up the good work JM.
If you allow me to be 'the Devil Advocate'; the UK probably fully understand american power, but from their PoW Washington is more or less a rogue state (little hyperbole for dramatic reason). From what they perceive, the USA are isolationist...till they decide are not more, they declare to not be an empire and 'despise' the colonial business...still they had their manifest destiny and their string of banana repubblics, not counting their expansion in the pacific, the Monroe Doctrine and China.
London attempt to bring them in the concert of nation was a move to preserve the international balance of power and get the US interested in mantaining a relative 'status quo' or at least in a certain set of rule and tradition instead to become a too unpredictable wild card.
Because of that right there, there will be a horrible backlash ITL. I know why the British are doing it, but they are doing this before the US was ready to step on the international stage and Washington didn't take kindly to that.
Japanese Annexation of Korea 1911
Japanese Annexation of Korea 1911
Korea had been at the root cause of two wars for Japan. Granted Japan won both of those wars and made fairly sizable territorial gains in both. For many in Japan those gains didn’t feel like enough. In their war with China they had to change their planned locations for enclaves to keep from going to war with Russia. Then in the war with Russia they had an unbroken string of victories against a much stronger foe, yet they walked away with only a small amount of what they had wanted in that war. Then there was a question of what to do with Korea.
During the war with Russia, the Koreans had been forced to sign the Japan-Korea Treaty of 1907. This treaty turned Korea into a Japanese protectorate. It also reduced the Korean military from 20 regiments to one. There were some within Japan who believed this was enough. They were already working to turn in their Chinese enclaves, Formosa, and Southern Karafuto into Home Japanese Territories. They viewed adding all of Korea as a waste of resources needed for their Japanification of these newly gained territories. Yet others wanted Japan to expand even further than it already had and viewed Korea as the next logical step in growth of the Empire. They view it as a stepping stone to taking the bastard state as they viewed the Kingdom of Manchuria. It was also viewed as a way to make sure that Korea wouldn’t break free from Japanese orbit down the road.
Korea made things worse for itself. They didn’t want to be under Japanese rule. They made repeated efforts to get the rest of the world to take note of what Japan was doing in Korea. This was at international summits being held on various matters and the Japanese didn’t take kindly to these efforts. This led to Japan forcing the Koreans to sign the Japan-Korea Treaty of 1908. It stripped Korea of their rights to act on domestic issues as they saw fit. It further when to make every member of the Korean government a Japanese national. It also created the office of Japanese Resident-General of Korea. The Korean Army such as it was firmly placed under Japanese control with many officers in it being replaced by Japanese officers. Finally, it forced Emperor Gwangmu to abdicate in favor of his son.
The 1908 treaty gave Japan massive amount of control within Korea yet on paper Korea was still its own nation. Yet there were some who believed still they should go for full annexation. Others believed this when far enough. The debate came down to the Genro, the founding fathers of Japan. After much debate between the Genros it was finally decided to annex Korea into the growing Japanese Empire. This led to the Japan-Korea Treaty of 1911. It was a short treaty and right to the point. The Japanese forced the Korean Emperor to sign the treaty. The Korean flag was lowered for the final time in Seoul on November 4 1911. The Japanese flag when up moments later.
Korea had been at the root cause of two wars for Japan. Granted Japan won both of those wars and made fairly sizable territorial gains in both. For many in Japan those gains didn’t feel like enough. In their war with China they had to change their planned locations for enclaves to keep from going to war with Russia. Then in the war with Russia they had an unbroken string of victories against a much stronger foe, yet they walked away with only a small amount of what they had wanted in that war. Then there was a question of what to do with Korea.
During the war with Russia, the Koreans had been forced to sign the Japan-Korea Treaty of 1907. This treaty turned Korea into a Japanese protectorate. It also reduced the Korean military from 20 regiments to one. There were some within Japan who believed this was enough. They were already working to turn in their Chinese enclaves, Formosa, and Southern Karafuto into Home Japanese Territories. They viewed adding all of Korea as a waste of resources needed for their Japanification of these newly gained territories. Yet others wanted Japan to expand even further than it already had and viewed Korea as the next logical step in growth of the Empire. They view it as a stepping stone to taking the bastard state as they viewed the Kingdom of Manchuria. It was also viewed as a way to make sure that Korea wouldn’t break free from Japanese orbit down the road.
Korea made things worse for itself. They didn’t want to be under Japanese rule. They made repeated efforts to get the rest of the world to take note of what Japan was doing in Korea. This was at international summits being held on various matters and the Japanese didn’t take kindly to these efforts. This led to Japan forcing the Koreans to sign the Japan-Korea Treaty of 1908. It stripped Korea of their rights to act on domestic issues as they saw fit. It further when to make every member of the Korean government a Japanese national. It also created the office of Japanese Resident-General of Korea. The Korean Army such as it was firmly placed under Japanese control with many officers in it being replaced by Japanese officers. Finally, it forced Emperor Gwangmu to abdicate in favor of his son.
The 1908 treaty gave Japan massive amount of control within Korea yet on paper Korea was still its own nation. Yet there were some who believed still they should go for full annexation. Others believed this when far enough. The debate came down to the Genro, the founding fathers of Japan. After much debate between the Genros it was finally decided to annex Korea into the growing Japanese Empire. This led to the Japan-Korea Treaty of 1911. It was a short treaty and right to the point. The Japanese forced the Korean Emperor to sign the treaty. The Korean flag was lowered for the final time in Seoul on November 4 1911. The Japanese flag when up moments later.
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
Do you think the US will offer to buy Alaska from Russia now, in OTL they sold it after the Crimean War because they knew they could not defend it, especially against a naval power, and they needed the extra money. In this TL all those reasons still apply and the US really does not want the British to get it.
That happened before the POD as the US brought Alaska in 1867, four years prior to the POD.
Things really could go either way at this point. Japan had fairly sane leadership that were intelligence at this point in time. Yet the seeds were there for them to go bat shit insane. Yet they could also in turn stay sane. There is a lot of things in play at the moment.
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
Oops, forgot how soon after the civil war we bought it. That means the US controls the North and South Pacific with only Hawaii left to ensure full protection of the west coast. I think I see a future where the US goes on an island collecting war at some point.
Hawaii is going to be difficult for the British here. It is out there relatively close to mainland USA and well away from any large chunks of British territory like Australia. Most of the islands between Australia and Hawaii or on the Pacific route from India to Hawaii are US held. One reason Hawaii ended up in the US orbit was economics - Hawaiian exports, primarily agricultural and perishable, could get to US markets easily, and goods from the US could get to Hawaii easily. Right now the west coast of Canada is pretty empty, and the trans-Canada railroad has only been completed a relatively short time by the early 1900s. Canada can neither provide much of a market for Hawaiian produce nor send much in the way of finished goods. Absent some serious subsidies from the UK and serious efforts to exclude American business (importing and exporting) Hawaii is going to drift towards the USA in many ways. In case of a UK-US conflict it is basically indefensible.
Intro, Second Mexican-American War
Second Mexican American War 1911-13
The Mexican Revolution started shortly after President Theodore Roosevelt of the United States was sworn in as the next president of the United States in 1909. Mexico finally reached its breaking point with long time President Porfirio Diaz who had ruled Mexico almost nonstop from 1876. Yet in the later years of the Diaz Regime he had to use the army to break the ever growing numbers of strikes in Mexico. These strikes were in protest of the near slave wages they were being paid by the foreigners who own these factories. The sad part of it was these wages were higher than ranch hands were being paid at the massive ranches that were also foreign owned. That was assuming if they were paid with real money not company credit which was only good at company stores.
For Mexico the straw that finally broke the camel’s back was two events in May 1909. First was President Diaz stated he planned to run again for the highest office in Mexico. Second was the Mapimi Mine Strike. Like earlier strikes Diaz brought in the Federal Army of Mexico to get the people who were striking back to work. The army did the same thing it did in the 1906 and 1907 strikes and broke the strike. However, what was different this time than in 06 and 07 was the fact members of Mexican Liberal Party which was a well-organized if small anti-Diaz group was somehow able to get photos of the Federal Army breaking the strike with rifle fire and other brutal tactics. The MLP was soon started to run the story of Mapimi non-stop in their illegal newspaper.
As the news and true scope of Mapimi was found out the Mexicans had finally had enough Diaz’s Mexico had brought them nothing but slavery for them and allowed the rich to get richer. Revolts against Diaz broke out in Northern and Southern Mexico. The Mexican Federal Army had been kept small by Diaz who himself was an ex-military man and understood the threat of a large and well kept army could pose to him. As such he kept the army small. Now faced with massive revolts all over the nation it couldn’t cope. By the summer of 1910 Diaz had been forced into exile in Spain.
With Diaz having been removed from the equation the problem of what next came to the forefront. To put it bluntly no one had a good answer to this question. It what led to more violence by the fall of 1910. President Roosevelt who brought the Republican Party back after the lacking it 1900 kept a weather eye on Mexico. The man was a believer in the idea of speak softly yet carry a big stick. He had ran on partly a promise to increase the size of the navy to even larger levels than what started the Anglo-American Naval Arms race. Yet as Mexico when to hell in a hand bag he started pushing for new funding bills for the army as the possibly of war through small was there.
For the US the moment that change things was the a cluster of a mistake that just spun out of control. The new Mexican leader was President Bernardo Reyes, a former general under Diaz. Reyes had already started to move to nationalize foreign held companies who refused recognize him as the new president. This didn’t sit well with many as they didn’t know if Reyes could stay in power or not at the moment. US Ambassador William Howard Taft who was a friend of President Roosevelt’s decided to back a coup of different groups who opposed Reyes and place into power someone who would be more friendly to the United States.
What happened next is known as the Eight Long Days in Mexico. A battle broke out between troops loyal to Reyes and rebels that Taft was supporting. It was back in fore for the first few days. Yet on the fifth day of the battle, Taft who was visiting leaders of the coup to see what they needed to make this work. On his way back to the embassy he was mistaken for someone else and killed by troops loyal to Reyes. This set off a massive battle of egos between Reyes and Roosevelt over the death of Taft. The coup that Taft had started would fail but his death created such fiction between the US and Mexico that it quickly spun out of control. It got to the point by May 18, that neither side could back down without losing face.
It was on the 18th of May that Reyes sent a simple demand to Roosevelt. It stated that the US had to stay out Mexico’s domestic affairs. Roosevelt answered by going to congress the next day and asking for a declaration of war against Mexico. As congress debated the request by President Roosevelt he when about mobilizing the armed forces for this war. The federal reserves and National Guard systems created in the aftermath of the Island War were mobilized for the first time in their history. Leaves were cancelled. Troops from across the nation were moved from their barracks to the Mexican border. The Navy started to move ships to be in position to blockade Mexico. On the 25th of May Congress passed the vote 79-11 in the Senate and 367-34[1]. The Second Mexican-American War was on.
[1] Cuba became a state a few years prior.
The Mexican Revolution started shortly after President Theodore Roosevelt of the United States was sworn in as the next president of the United States in 1909. Mexico finally reached its breaking point with long time President Porfirio Diaz who had ruled Mexico almost nonstop from 1876. Yet in the later years of the Diaz Regime he had to use the army to break the ever growing numbers of strikes in Mexico. These strikes were in protest of the near slave wages they were being paid by the foreigners who own these factories. The sad part of it was these wages were higher than ranch hands were being paid at the massive ranches that were also foreign owned. That was assuming if they were paid with real money not company credit which was only good at company stores.
For Mexico the straw that finally broke the camel’s back was two events in May 1909. First was President Diaz stated he planned to run again for the highest office in Mexico. Second was the Mapimi Mine Strike. Like earlier strikes Diaz brought in the Federal Army of Mexico to get the people who were striking back to work. The army did the same thing it did in the 1906 and 1907 strikes and broke the strike. However, what was different this time than in 06 and 07 was the fact members of Mexican Liberal Party which was a well-organized if small anti-Diaz group was somehow able to get photos of the Federal Army breaking the strike with rifle fire and other brutal tactics. The MLP was soon started to run the story of Mapimi non-stop in their illegal newspaper.
As the news and true scope of Mapimi was found out the Mexicans had finally had enough Diaz’s Mexico had brought them nothing but slavery for them and allowed the rich to get richer. Revolts against Diaz broke out in Northern and Southern Mexico. The Mexican Federal Army had been kept small by Diaz who himself was an ex-military man and understood the threat of a large and well kept army could pose to him. As such he kept the army small. Now faced with massive revolts all over the nation it couldn’t cope. By the summer of 1910 Diaz had been forced into exile in Spain.
With Diaz having been removed from the equation the problem of what next came to the forefront. To put it bluntly no one had a good answer to this question. It what led to more violence by the fall of 1910. President Roosevelt who brought the Republican Party back after the lacking it 1900 kept a weather eye on Mexico. The man was a believer in the idea of speak softly yet carry a big stick. He had ran on partly a promise to increase the size of the navy to even larger levels than what started the Anglo-American Naval Arms race. Yet as Mexico when to hell in a hand bag he started pushing for new funding bills for the army as the possibly of war through small was there.
For the US the moment that change things was the a cluster of a mistake that just spun out of control. The new Mexican leader was President Bernardo Reyes, a former general under Diaz. Reyes had already started to move to nationalize foreign held companies who refused recognize him as the new president. This didn’t sit well with many as they didn’t know if Reyes could stay in power or not at the moment. US Ambassador William Howard Taft who was a friend of President Roosevelt’s decided to back a coup of different groups who opposed Reyes and place into power someone who would be more friendly to the United States.
What happened next is known as the Eight Long Days in Mexico. A battle broke out between troops loyal to Reyes and rebels that Taft was supporting. It was back in fore for the first few days. Yet on the fifth day of the battle, Taft who was visiting leaders of the coup to see what they needed to make this work. On his way back to the embassy he was mistaken for someone else and killed by troops loyal to Reyes. This set off a massive battle of egos between Reyes and Roosevelt over the death of Taft. The coup that Taft had started would fail but his death created such fiction between the US and Mexico that it quickly spun out of control. It got to the point by May 18, that neither side could back down without losing face.
It was on the 18th of May that Reyes sent a simple demand to Roosevelt. It stated that the US had to stay out Mexico’s domestic affairs. Roosevelt answered by going to congress the next day and asking for a declaration of war against Mexico. As congress debated the request by President Roosevelt he when about mobilizing the armed forces for this war. The federal reserves and National Guard systems created in the aftermath of the Island War were mobilized for the first time in their history. Leaves were cancelled. Troops from across the nation were moved from their barracks to the Mexican border. The Navy started to move ships to be in position to blockade Mexico. On the 25th of May Congress passed the vote 79-11 in the Senate and 367-34[1]. The Second Mexican-American War was on.
[1] Cuba became a state a few years prior.
Somehow I am hoping that Mexico can pull a victory out of this. I know it is very unlikely but so was Japan winning against Russia.
Japan had a well organized, trained and equipped military operating close to its home base. The Russians had a large mediocre equipped army with generally crap commanders and generally brave but poorly trained troops. No comparisons for the navies. The USA is way larger than Mexico, has a larger standing army, better equipped and trained troops, and combat experience. The US economy is way larger and they produce essentially all the arms and other military equipment they need. Mexico, not so much.
True but stranger things can happen, like American independence for example. Plus Mexico could pull a Vietnam and just never give up. Actually that would be a really cool TL. The US invades Mexico. The government surrenders but the people continue to wage a guerrilla war, drawing and tying down huge amounts of American manpower and generally becoming a bloodbath. Eventually, with losses mounting the US pulls out and vows to leave Mexico the hell alone.
Sorry for distracting from the TL JS, it was really good, and will likely continue to be so. No matter what happens to poor Mexico.
The South of the Border just got fiery hot. The jumping beans will be hopping of the blaze of gunfire.
Jjust how well with the Mexicans do against the might of the US. Might Mexico get aid from some other nefarious powers? Germany, Britain, and others might be happy to give weapons, ammo, and advisors to train troops.
Jjust how well with the Mexicans do against the might of the US. Might Mexico get aid from some other nefarious powers? Germany, Britain, and others might be happy to give weapons, ammo, and advisors to train troops.
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
The big problem is that for a long time the United States was the only real arms producer in the western hemisphere, still is to a certain extent, and most of Mexico's weapons and ammo came from the north, simple economics, which is the reason the whole Zimmerman Telegram was a bit of a joke. With the US navy able to blockade most of Mexico, and support some of the more unified rebellions such as the one in the Yucatan to divert their army, Mexico is set to lose a couple of their northern border states to the US, they are very underpopulated even today, and possibly their southern most one to independence as well. Ironically this might make modern Mexico more prosperous since it would likely be more stable and centralized.
Vietnam US was there because they were trying to prop up the Southern government and did not invade the North so it was a defensive war. Here the US can go in, beat the Mexican army and negotiate terms to end the war then pull out. Not sure what the US is aiming for in this war asides from making Mexico admit fault (and probably make payments or something).