So then, could the lack of a Italio-Turkish war lead to a stronger Ottoman empire down the line? Not really all that familiar with the OTL conflict but I imagine that any war that the Ottomans dont fight TTL has got to make them stronger down the line.
A New Balance
- Thread starter Jim Smitty
- Start date
Well, its possible. However WWI, through it will be different than OTL, still happens.
Treaty of Madrid 1906
Treaty of Madrid 1906
The Ottomans weren’t the only weak nation within Europe in the early 20th century that held an empire from centuries ago. Spain had a host of domestic issues. Further after ending of the Nine Years War[1] in the Philippines with them fighting the Katipunan they were on the brink of bankruptcy in 1904. It was the main reason Spain didn’t even give token support to anti-Boxer alliance as they were more worried about holding on to the Philippines as the Katipunan really made them work for it. Yet they “won” that war but it ended by more mutual exhaustion of both sides. Spain was in need on money or risked defaulting on the loans they used to hold on the Philippines.
Even through Germany had gain a colony in China through the Boxer Protocols they weren’t in a position to try and take over any of the Spanish Pacific holdings. Their navy had only just recovered from their defeat in the Island War and they were having to build up a navy that could defend against the Russian and French fleets as well as to project into the colonies. Even through Kaiser Wilhelm wanted Germany’s place in the sun but he knew better than to make an offer for a rebellious colony. It was also questionable if the Spanish would had been willing to part with the whole of the Philippines.
For the United States they had been watching events in the Philippines with some interest. They weren’t all that interested in the Philippines as they saw it as a massive investment that would take years if not decades before it would pay out. They however, were more interested in the rest of the Mariana Island Chain and the Caroline Island Groups held as part of the Spanish East Indies. The US was still sore about the British screwing them out Hawaii or as it was known in 1904 the Colony of the Sandwich Islands. These island groups through not offering the location or as many economic edges that the Sandwich Island offered these islands still offered a good power projection position as well of being economic buyable with a far cheaper investment than the Philippines would be. Furthermore it would make the defense of Guam which had been an American territory since 1875 easier to some degree.
President Joseph Blackburn[2] decided to reach out to the Spanish about possibly these two island groups being brought for a reasonable price in late 1905. The Spanish were surprised by the fact the Americans were reaching out to them and to buy these island chains instead of the Philippines. Relations had improved since the Spanish-American War, but it was still surprising. Yet Spain needed money and for these almost useless colonies which they couldn’t defend Spain had no issues selling them for the right price. After a few rounds of talks a deal was stuck in early 1906. For a sum of 2 million dollars and a further 1.5 million in debt forgiveness by the US on Spanish Loans the US would take ownership of the Mariana and Caroline Island Groups.
Spain quickly ratified the treaty as it wanted the money. In the US Senate it saw a major debate take place about it. Like the debate about the Danish Virgin Islands in 1879 the major part of the debate centered on adding more non-whites to the nation. This was somewhat odd given the fact Senator Brooker T Washington from South Carolina[3] was African in his ethnic background. The Treaty of Madrid passed the senate by a single vote on May 18th 1906. Three months after the treaty was ratified the exchange of ownership of the islands took place.
[1] A major uprising by the Filipinos against the Spanish. It was a nasty war that left a lot of people on both sides dead and bad feelings.
[2] He is in his second term after the Dems retook the White House in 1900.
[3] Yeah things are a little different in South Carolina ITL. It’s a majority ruled African-American state ITL and still ruled by Republicans. It’s a Republican bastion in the otherwise solid south. Washington was elected to the Class Two SC Senate seat in 1900 after years of doing different jobs in SC. Yes the southern whites aren’t happy about this, but they are in a damn in they do and damn if they don’t place over SC.
The Ottomans weren’t the only weak nation within Europe in the early 20th century that held an empire from centuries ago. Spain had a host of domestic issues. Further after ending of the Nine Years War[1] in the Philippines with them fighting the Katipunan they were on the brink of bankruptcy in 1904. It was the main reason Spain didn’t even give token support to anti-Boxer alliance as they were more worried about holding on to the Philippines as the Katipunan really made them work for it. Yet they “won” that war but it ended by more mutual exhaustion of both sides. Spain was in need on money or risked defaulting on the loans they used to hold on the Philippines.
Even through Germany had gain a colony in China through the Boxer Protocols they weren’t in a position to try and take over any of the Spanish Pacific holdings. Their navy had only just recovered from their defeat in the Island War and they were having to build up a navy that could defend against the Russian and French fleets as well as to project into the colonies. Even through Kaiser Wilhelm wanted Germany’s place in the sun but he knew better than to make an offer for a rebellious colony. It was also questionable if the Spanish would had been willing to part with the whole of the Philippines.
For the United States they had been watching events in the Philippines with some interest. They weren’t all that interested in the Philippines as they saw it as a massive investment that would take years if not decades before it would pay out. They however, were more interested in the rest of the Mariana Island Chain and the Caroline Island Groups held as part of the Spanish East Indies. The US was still sore about the British screwing them out Hawaii or as it was known in 1904 the Colony of the Sandwich Islands. These island groups through not offering the location or as many economic edges that the Sandwich Island offered these islands still offered a good power projection position as well of being economic buyable with a far cheaper investment than the Philippines would be. Furthermore it would make the defense of Guam which had been an American territory since 1875 easier to some degree.
President Joseph Blackburn[2] decided to reach out to the Spanish about possibly these two island groups being brought for a reasonable price in late 1905. The Spanish were surprised by the fact the Americans were reaching out to them and to buy these island chains instead of the Philippines. Relations had improved since the Spanish-American War, but it was still surprising. Yet Spain needed money and for these almost useless colonies which they couldn’t defend Spain had no issues selling them for the right price. After a few rounds of talks a deal was stuck in early 1906. For a sum of 2 million dollars and a further 1.5 million in debt forgiveness by the US on Spanish Loans the US would take ownership of the Mariana and Caroline Island Groups.
Spain quickly ratified the treaty as it wanted the money. In the US Senate it saw a major debate take place about it. Like the debate about the Danish Virgin Islands in 1879 the major part of the debate centered on adding more non-whites to the nation. This was somewhat odd given the fact Senator Brooker T Washington from South Carolina[3] was African in his ethnic background. The Treaty of Madrid passed the senate by a single vote on May 18th 1906. Three months after the treaty was ratified the exchange of ownership of the islands took place.
[1] A major uprising by the Filipinos against the Spanish. It was a nasty war that left a lot of people on both sides dead and bad feelings.
[2] He is in his second term after the Dems retook the White House in 1900.
[3] Yeah things are a little different in South Carolina ITL. It’s a majority ruled African-American state ITL and still ruled by Republicans. It’s a Republican bastion in the otherwise solid south. Washington was elected to the Class Two SC Senate seat in 1900 after years of doing different jobs in SC. Yes the southern whites aren’t happy about this, but they are in a damn in they do and damn if they don’t place over SC.
Nice updates. The US gains some more Island bases and protection for Wake and Guam. Italy gets a peaceful addition to its Empire. Or at least for now. Spain gains a little more money, but still holds onto a sinkhole in the Philippines. That may cause them a new round of trouble down the road.
Good luck to Germany trying to rebuild its fleet. Will they get aid from England ITTL?
Good luck to Germany trying to rebuild its fleet. Will they get aid from England ITTL?
Russo-Japanese War 1906-07, Part One
Russo-Japanese War of 1906-07
The origins of the Russo-Japanese War date back to the Sino-Japanese War of 1894-95. The Japanese wanted to expand in a northern direction as the southern route was blocked by vast European empires. They had planned to annex Port Arthur as it was then known on the Liaodong Peninsula as part of their war goals but on learning that the Russians wouldn’t stand and possibly go to war over the matter they shifted their goals to the Shandong Peninsula which still offered roads to further expansion at a later date. Then during the Boxer War the Russians invaded Manchuria to link up with their concession at Port Arthur. The Japanese weren’t happy by this as they had wanted at least a piece of Manchuria for themselves. However, they weren’t able to force anything in London as the Boxer Protocols were being drawn up.
In 1903 Japan received a boost in the form of the Anglo-Japanese Alliance. The British had been less than happy at the fact the Russians had been allowed to annex Manchuria. Everyone really hadn’t been crazy about the idea and tried to force Russia to give up Manchuria but Russia refused to back down over the matter. For the British the Japanese seemed to be the lesser of the three evils in the Pacific at the time. The United States had started the Anglo-American Naval Races in 1902. The British had a long-standing grudge against Russians who was the only nation that could really challenge the British. Then there were the Japanese. Sure, they were yellow bastards, but British goals didn’t clash with the Japanese goals. As such they could form an alliance with the Japanese and let it serve as a warning to both the Americans and Russians.
Even at this point the Japanese didn’t want to go to war with the Russians. They tried to get the Russians to admit that Korea was the Japanese playground and allow the Russians to gain favorable trade deals with the Japanese. The Russians however refused to play ball with the Japanese. Even through, they were still eating the meal that Manchuria was they refuse to give the Japanese the sphere of influence it sought in Korea. The Russian Empire was only to expand, or that was the idea in St. Petersburg anyways. Instead they sought to create a buffer area between Japanese back Koreans and their newest province in Manchuria.
What finally pushed Japan to decide war was the only course was when the Russians gained timber and mining concessions in Northern Korea in early 1906. They knew there was a risk that this could go badly but with the belief that the British would save them from having to fight in a two front war against the Russians and French and further if things when bad from getting destroyed by the Russians they decided to go to war. This was risky as the Russians had just finished the Trans-Siberian Railway in early 1905 which meant that they could more easily resupply their troops in the far east than ever before. Yet they knew from intelligence work that rail line was a single line of track that made transport tricky. Also the fact with it was deepened on two ferries Lake Baikal meant that the railway would be out of service during winter months.
Japan launch an attack on the Russian Pacific Fleet at Port Arthur on July 6 1906. This was only hours after it had declared war against Russia. Because of the time zone differences between Moscow and where the war would be fought the Russians and the tricky part of giving the Russians the declaration of war didn’t mean they got it till after the war started. Admiral Togo who was the commander of the Combined Fleet sought to disable or otherwise remove from the board the Russian Pacific Fleet based out of Port Arthur. It was well known in Japanese circles if they lost control of the sea they were doomed. At the time the Russian Navy was the third largest navy in the world with eight battleships, nine armored cruisers, and a host of lesser ships at Port Arthur. This force had to be dealt with.
On the opening night of the war Admiral Togo commander of the Combined Fleet of Japan order a massive torpedo boat assault against the Russian Pacific Fleet. The Japanese ran into a patrolling group of Russian destroyers, however, with the Russians not knowing that a war had just started fell back to base to report in instead of fighting. With the belief that surprise was now gone the Japanese when to flank speed to charge in. The Russians were confused but were still following their orders not to start a fight. Just around 3 am local time the first shots of the war were fired when the Japanese started to launch their torpedoes against the Russian fleet. Torpedo nets put an end to many of the Japanese torpedoes that night. However some did get past the nets to hit their targets. They managed to sink two of the Russian battleships and damage a third. The two sunk was the Russian Built Potemkin and the American built Retvizan. One needs to note even through the Russian Empire was the largest the world has yet seen and one of the richest they couldn’t afford to build all their own ships for their navy. As such they turned to foreign yards to help fill the short fall in naval ships to command its vast coastline with fleets that couldn’t support each other. Even though they feel short of the goals set out by Admiral Togo they did manage to get the numbers a little more even as the blockade of the port started.
Hours later the land invasion of Manchuria began. At the time the Russians had some 150,000 troops in their newest provinces. However this was throughout the province and not all along the border with Korea which was still its own nation at the moment. Even for the army the goal was on taking control of Port Arthur on the Liaodong Peninsula. First they had to get their through. Within hours of the war started they open fired on Russian positions on the Yalu as they tried to cross it. For the Russians a state of confusion was in their chain of command. The Russian Army nor the Russian Navy were on good terms with each other as they fought for resources in the state budget. The navy knew a war was on but only a few within the Russian Army knew this.
Japanese Krupp made artillery caused hell on the Russian infantry around the town of Juvenaly[1]. Juvenaly was the focus point of the Japanese efforts to cross the Yalu. The Russian General who commanded this section of the front had no idea war was coming and hadn’t taken steps needed to defend his sector of the Yalu from a Japanese assault from Korea as he believed he would have enough warning time to issue ammo and perform other things needed to defend the front. Instead of facing an army that was ready for war the Japanese found the border troops with limited ammo and no clue what was happening. The Japanese cross the Yalu which for the Russians was their hold line against the Japanese in any possible war, under only light fire which was poorly aimed. The Russians tried to rally but between unarmed or troops with only limited ammo it made things hard to put up an organized resistance. General Nikolai Kashtalinsky who had only been the chief of staff assumed the command of the 1st Manchurian Corp which had been guarding this selection of the front around noon following the death of his commander who had tried trying to rally his men from the front order a retreat.
The Battle of Juvenaly showcased the fact the Japanese weren’t pushovers. It also show that the Russians had been totally caught off guard by the Japanese. At Juvenaly some 2,000 Russians were taken prisoners along with 47 pieces of artillery and vast stores of supplies that had been built up by the Russians to hold the Yalu being captured by the Japanese. It was a major shock to the Japanese they had captured so much equipment and artillery at Juvenaly. However, their victory was far from putting them in a position they needed to be. They kept pressing forward to cut off the Liaodong Peninsula from the rest of Manchuria.
Following Juvenaly there were a number of minor battles that ended in Japanese victories as they pushed to cut off the peninsula from the rest of Manchuria. The next major battle was the Battle of Motien Pass. Motien Pass commanded the last land link to Port Arthur to the rest of Manchuria. Take that pass and the Japanese would have achieved their goal of cutting off the Liaodong Peninsula. The Russian Navy even knew this and sortie to get out to open sea and break out the blockade the Japanese had on Port Arthur.
The Battle of Motien Pass happened before the Battle of Yellow Sea. The Japanese couldn’t committed their whole army to Motien Pass as they were having to fight the Russians across the whole of Southern Manchuria. The Russians had the 2nd Manchurian Corp and the remains of the 1st Manchurian Corp which by this point had been fairly chewed up by the Japanese. The Russians roughly outnumbered the Japanese by a factor of two to one at Motien Pass. Even the Japanese would admit that the Russians had better artillery than their own. Yet the Japanese had better sprit in their soldiers than the Russians could possibly hope for.
A frontal assault started the battle by the Japanese on September 8th. The Russians were able to throw the Japanese back to their starting blocks. General Nogi decided to try and flank the Russians instead of defeating them head on. For reasons unknown to just about everyone the Russians decided to get up on Motien Pass. The Japanese caught the Russians in their flank as they were moving to fallback. It was a bloody mess that ended up killing both general officers who were leading the two different sides at Motien Pass. Yet the Japanese had better officers and were able to force the Russians to fall back and take the pass.
The Battle of the Yellow Sea started on September 9th. The Japanese had seven battleships to the Russian six. The Japanese fleet had the newly commissioned IJN Aki[2]. She was the half-sister to the Satsuma the first Japanese battleship that was being built in the Japanese Home Islands. The difference besides the yards was the fact the Aki had a steam turbine system power system instead of the vertical triple-expansion engines that were common in naval designs at the moment. This gave the Aki a top speed of 20.5 knots, three knots faster than the fastest Russian Battleships at this battle.
Togo who had moved his flag to the Aki when it joined the Combined Fleet moved to block the Russian breakout efforts. It was a battle that was the second battle between steel battleships, with the first being Second Caracas. But Second Caracas was a single battleship on single battleship battle with Yellow Sea being the first steel battleship battle in squadron strength. Togo had divided his strength and had both elements fall back as they had laid minefields for this plan of his. Togo knew that the next battleship to be commissioned wouldn’t be ready till 1909 at the earliest unless another order with the British was made so he couldn’t afford to lose any.
For the Russians they didn’t understand why the Japanese were falling back. But they decided to chase the slower older battleships of the Japanese Fleet thinking they could take a bit out of the Japanese. They did just what Togo had thought they would and chase the Japanese battleships into a minefield. The Russian Battleship Poltava struck two mines and quickly sunk. Moments later protected cruiser Pallada suck another mine as they were chasing the Japanese. Admiral Vitgeft figured out that something was wrong and order his fleet to fall back. At this point Togo order section element to double back and go to flank speed. The trap had been sprung and it was time to take a bite out the Russian fleet. Before the Russian fleet got out of the minefield through the battleship Sevastopol stuck another mine. It wasn’t enough to sink her, yet it did cause her captain to strike her colors as she had lost power and was a drift in a minefield, or at least the out limits of it. He didn’t want to risk his crew being killed for nothing.
Having thin out the Russian numbers some had been the goal of Togo in this trap laid for the Russians. He took them on as he tried to cross the T of the Russian fleet as it was trying to fall back now. They were also engaging at ranges that only a few years before would had been unheard of. It also showed that the Japanese took their gunnery drills seriously and the Russians hadn’t as the Japanese were getting far more hits in this battle. Even more so as the T was cross just after three that afternoon. About an hour later the second element from the Japanese fleet rejoined the battle and started to blast the Russians.
The Battle of the Yellow Sea was a shock to the world. It was a major Japanese victory over the Russians. Togo broke action at night fall. By that point two of his own battleships were damaged, one badly. However three Russian battleships had been sunk, two more had stuck their colors and had been taken as prizes by the Japanese. The final Russian battleship managed to limp back into Port Arthur but badly damaged. The Japanese had also managed to captured two armored cruisers and a protected cruiser with sinking four more cruisers during the course of the battle. Two Russian admirals were dead, another five were taken as prisoners. It was a clearly impressive victory.
[1] OTL Dandong. The Russians renamed the town for Juvenaly of Alaska (1761-1796)
[2] Basically a semi-dreadnought type of battleship. Built as a test build for HMS Hercules, the ITL dreadnought. Built on something of a quid pro quo deal between the British and Japanese.
The origins of the Russo-Japanese War date back to the Sino-Japanese War of 1894-95. The Japanese wanted to expand in a northern direction as the southern route was blocked by vast European empires. They had planned to annex Port Arthur as it was then known on the Liaodong Peninsula as part of their war goals but on learning that the Russians wouldn’t stand and possibly go to war over the matter they shifted their goals to the Shandong Peninsula which still offered roads to further expansion at a later date. Then during the Boxer War the Russians invaded Manchuria to link up with their concession at Port Arthur. The Japanese weren’t happy by this as they had wanted at least a piece of Manchuria for themselves. However, they weren’t able to force anything in London as the Boxer Protocols were being drawn up.
In 1903 Japan received a boost in the form of the Anglo-Japanese Alliance. The British had been less than happy at the fact the Russians had been allowed to annex Manchuria. Everyone really hadn’t been crazy about the idea and tried to force Russia to give up Manchuria but Russia refused to back down over the matter. For the British the Japanese seemed to be the lesser of the three evils in the Pacific at the time. The United States had started the Anglo-American Naval Races in 1902. The British had a long-standing grudge against Russians who was the only nation that could really challenge the British. Then there were the Japanese. Sure, they were yellow bastards, but British goals didn’t clash with the Japanese goals. As such they could form an alliance with the Japanese and let it serve as a warning to both the Americans and Russians.
Even at this point the Japanese didn’t want to go to war with the Russians. They tried to get the Russians to admit that Korea was the Japanese playground and allow the Russians to gain favorable trade deals with the Japanese. The Russians however refused to play ball with the Japanese. Even through, they were still eating the meal that Manchuria was they refuse to give the Japanese the sphere of influence it sought in Korea. The Russian Empire was only to expand, or that was the idea in St. Petersburg anyways. Instead they sought to create a buffer area between Japanese back Koreans and their newest province in Manchuria.
What finally pushed Japan to decide war was the only course was when the Russians gained timber and mining concessions in Northern Korea in early 1906. They knew there was a risk that this could go badly but with the belief that the British would save them from having to fight in a two front war against the Russians and French and further if things when bad from getting destroyed by the Russians they decided to go to war. This was risky as the Russians had just finished the Trans-Siberian Railway in early 1905 which meant that they could more easily resupply their troops in the far east than ever before. Yet they knew from intelligence work that rail line was a single line of track that made transport tricky. Also the fact with it was deepened on two ferries Lake Baikal meant that the railway would be out of service during winter months.
Japan launch an attack on the Russian Pacific Fleet at Port Arthur on July 6 1906. This was only hours after it had declared war against Russia. Because of the time zone differences between Moscow and where the war would be fought the Russians and the tricky part of giving the Russians the declaration of war didn’t mean they got it till after the war started. Admiral Togo who was the commander of the Combined Fleet sought to disable or otherwise remove from the board the Russian Pacific Fleet based out of Port Arthur. It was well known in Japanese circles if they lost control of the sea they were doomed. At the time the Russian Navy was the third largest navy in the world with eight battleships, nine armored cruisers, and a host of lesser ships at Port Arthur. This force had to be dealt with.
On the opening night of the war Admiral Togo commander of the Combined Fleet of Japan order a massive torpedo boat assault against the Russian Pacific Fleet. The Japanese ran into a patrolling group of Russian destroyers, however, with the Russians not knowing that a war had just started fell back to base to report in instead of fighting. With the belief that surprise was now gone the Japanese when to flank speed to charge in. The Russians were confused but were still following their orders not to start a fight. Just around 3 am local time the first shots of the war were fired when the Japanese started to launch their torpedoes against the Russian fleet. Torpedo nets put an end to many of the Japanese torpedoes that night. However some did get past the nets to hit their targets. They managed to sink two of the Russian battleships and damage a third. The two sunk was the Russian Built Potemkin and the American built Retvizan. One needs to note even through the Russian Empire was the largest the world has yet seen and one of the richest they couldn’t afford to build all their own ships for their navy. As such they turned to foreign yards to help fill the short fall in naval ships to command its vast coastline with fleets that couldn’t support each other. Even though they feel short of the goals set out by Admiral Togo they did manage to get the numbers a little more even as the blockade of the port started.
Hours later the land invasion of Manchuria began. At the time the Russians had some 150,000 troops in their newest provinces. However this was throughout the province and not all along the border with Korea which was still its own nation at the moment. Even for the army the goal was on taking control of Port Arthur on the Liaodong Peninsula. First they had to get their through. Within hours of the war started they open fired on Russian positions on the Yalu as they tried to cross it. For the Russians a state of confusion was in their chain of command. The Russian Army nor the Russian Navy were on good terms with each other as they fought for resources in the state budget. The navy knew a war was on but only a few within the Russian Army knew this.
Japanese Krupp made artillery caused hell on the Russian infantry around the town of Juvenaly[1]. Juvenaly was the focus point of the Japanese efforts to cross the Yalu. The Russian General who commanded this section of the front had no idea war was coming and hadn’t taken steps needed to defend his sector of the Yalu from a Japanese assault from Korea as he believed he would have enough warning time to issue ammo and perform other things needed to defend the front. Instead of facing an army that was ready for war the Japanese found the border troops with limited ammo and no clue what was happening. The Japanese cross the Yalu which for the Russians was their hold line against the Japanese in any possible war, under only light fire which was poorly aimed. The Russians tried to rally but between unarmed or troops with only limited ammo it made things hard to put up an organized resistance. General Nikolai Kashtalinsky who had only been the chief of staff assumed the command of the 1st Manchurian Corp which had been guarding this selection of the front around noon following the death of his commander who had tried trying to rally his men from the front order a retreat.
The Battle of Juvenaly showcased the fact the Japanese weren’t pushovers. It also show that the Russians had been totally caught off guard by the Japanese. At Juvenaly some 2,000 Russians were taken prisoners along with 47 pieces of artillery and vast stores of supplies that had been built up by the Russians to hold the Yalu being captured by the Japanese. It was a major shock to the Japanese they had captured so much equipment and artillery at Juvenaly. However, their victory was far from putting them in a position they needed to be. They kept pressing forward to cut off the Liaodong Peninsula from the rest of Manchuria.
Following Juvenaly there were a number of minor battles that ended in Japanese victories as they pushed to cut off the peninsula from the rest of Manchuria. The next major battle was the Battle of Motien Pass. Motien Pass commanded the last land link to Port Arthur to the rest of Manchuria. Take that pass and the Japanese would have achieved their goal of cutting off the Liaodong Peninsula. The Russian Navy even knew this and sortie to get out to open sea and break out the blockade the Japanese had on Port Arthur.
The Battle of Motien Pass happened before the Battle of Yellow Sea. The Japanese couldn’t committed their whole army to Motien Pass as they were having to fight the Russians across the whole of Southern Manchuria. The Russians had the 2nd Manchurian Corp and the remains of the 1st Manchurian Corp which by this point had been fairly chewed up by the Japanese. The Russians roughly outnumbered the Japanese by a factor of two to one at Motien Pass. Even the Japanese would admit that the Russians had better artillery than their own. Yet the Japanese had better sprit in their soldiers than the Russians could possibly hope for.
A frontal assault started the battle by the Japanese on September 8th. The Russians were able to throw the Japanese back to their starting blocks. General Nogi decided to try and flank the Russians instead of defeating them head on. For reasons unknown to just about everyone the Russians decided to get up on Motien Pass. The Japanese caught the Russians in their flank as they were moving to fallback. It was a bloody mess that ended up killing both general officers who were leading the two different sides at Motien Pass. Yet the Japanese had better officers and were able to force the Russians to fall back and take the pass.
The Battle of the Yellow Sea started on September 9th. The Japanese had seven battleships to the Russian six. The Japanese fleet had the newly commissioned IJN Aki[2]. She was the half-sister to the Satsuma the first Japanese battleship that was being built in the Japanese Home Islands. The difference besides the yards was the fact the Aki had a steam turbine system power system instead of the vertical triple-expansion engines that were common in naval designs at the moment. This gave the Aki a top speed of 20.5 knots, three knots faster than the fastest Russian Battleships at this battle.
Togo who had moved his flag to the Aki when it joined the Combined Fleet moved to block the Russian breakout efforts. It was a battle that was the second battle between steel battleships, with the first being Second Caracas. But Second Caracas was a single battleship on single battleship battle with Yellow Sea being the first steel battleship battle in squadron strength. Togo had divided his strength and had both elements fall back as they had laid minefields for this plan of his. Togo knew that the next battleship to be commissioned wouldn’t be ready till 1909 at the earliest unless another order with the British was made so he couldn’t afford to lose any.
For the Russians they didn’t understand why the Japanese were falling back. But they decided to chase the slower older battleships of the Japanese Fleet thinking they could take a bit out of the Japanese. They did just what Togo had thought they would and chase the Japanese battleships into a minefield. The Russian Battleship Poltava struck two mines and quickly sunk. Moments later protected cruiser Pallada suck another mine as they were chasing the Japanese. Admiral Vitgeft figured out that something was wrong and order his fleet to fall back. At this point Togo order section element to double back and go to flank speed. The trap had been sprung and it was time to take a bite out the Russian fleet. Before the Russian fleet got out of the minefield through the battleship Sevastopol stuck another mine. It wasn’t enough to sink her, yet it did cause her captain to strike her colors as she had lost power and was a drift in a minefield, or at least the out limits of it. He didn’t want to risk his crew being killed for nothing.
Having thin out the Russian numbers some had been the goal of Togo in this trap laid for the Russians. He took them on as he tried to cross the T of the Russian fleet as it was trying to fall back now. They were also engaging at ranges that only a few years before would had been unheard of. It also showed that the Japanese took their gunnery drills seriously and the Russians hadn’t as the Japanese were getting far more hits in this battle. Even more so as the T was cross just after three that afternoon. About an hour later the second element from the Japanese fleet rejoined the battle and started to blast the Russians.
The Battle of the Yellow Sea was a shock to the world. It was a major Japanese victory over the Russians. Togo broke action at night fall. By that point two of his own battleships were damaged, one badly. However three Russian battleships had been sunk, two more had stuck their colors and had been taken as prizes by the Japanese. The final Russian battleship managed to limp back into Port Arthur but badly damaged. The Japanese had also managed to captured two armored cruisers and a protected cruiser with sinking four more cruisers during the course of the battle. Two Russian admirals were dead, another five were taken as prisoners. It was a clearly impressive victory.
[1] OTL Dandong. The Russians renamed the town for Juvenaly of Alaska (1761-1796)
[2] Basically a semi-dreadnought type of battleship. Built as a test build for HMS Hercules, the ITL dreadnought. Built on something of a quid pro quo deal between the British and Japanese.
How different is this Aki from the OTL Aki? Was this one finished to the original design with the four twin 12" and four single 12" turrets without the 10" guns that made it onto the final product? Can we assume that this Battle of the Yellow Sea will have the same lessons concerning all-big-gun ships and the role of armoured cruisers in the battle line as the OTL Battle of Tsushima?
She is a semi-dreadnought. Pre-dread layout in weapons but steam turbine powered. I'm not going beyond that as I'm working on building up fairly detail 1937 nation outlines that will so a fair number of naval designs on top of everything else.
Russo-Japanese War 1906-07, Part Two
With the victories at Motien Pass and Yellow Sea the Japanese surprised the world. However, these victories weren’t war winners. The Russians still had a power army defending Port Arthur and over 100,000 troops outside Port Arthur in Manchuria and growing. The importance of Port Arthur through had when down some as the sole battleship left there, the Pobeda was so badly damaged it was written off by the navy after reaching its moorings as a total loss. Yet they still had nine cruiser remaining at Port Arthur with four of them being armored cruisers. But the Russian Pacific Fleet wasn’t the threat it had been before Yellow Sea.
The bigger effect of these two victories weren’t on the battlefield, but that of international finance. Japan was a nation with limited national resources even through it was radially industrizing. The gold reserves of the Japanese were far below many European nations and with the belief that the Russians would win this war had kept international banks from lending money to Japan. With the victories at Motien Pass and Yellow Sea through the view that Russia would outright win the war faded from view. Some banks and governments started to lend the Japanese money at affordable rates. This in turn gave the Japanese a needed boost in paying for this war.
On the night of October 19/20 1906 the nature of the Russo-Japanese War almost radically changed. Following the defeat of the Russian Pacific Fleet at Yellow Sea Tsar Nicholas II ordered the Baltic Fleet to sail to Vladivostok to form the Second Pacific Fleet. This move brought every battleship, cruiser, and number of auxiliary ships of the Baltic Fleet into play in what was to be one of the longest journeys ever made at war by steel warships only matched by the German efforts to reinforce the SW Pacific in the Island War.
The Second Pacific Fleet had a defeatist mindset and rumors ran wild of Japanese torpedo boats and battleship operating out of the British Isles in the North Sea. On the night the Russian look outs spotted what they believed to be a Japanese Battleship even through there was no Japanese Battleship with thousands of kilometers of their current location. The ship they spotted was the SS Haverford, an American flag passenger ship on the Boston-Hamburg run. She was carrying 819 souls on her as she was making her way to Hamburg. Yet at night the Russians believed her to be a Japanese battleship and open fire.
For the Russians the North Sea Incident almost led to war with the United States. The Haverford was severely damaged by Russian Naval Gunfire and barely made it to Edinburgh. Of the passengers and crew of the Haverford 201 of them died in the incident before the Russians ended their fire, 29 more would die before they reach Edinburgh. There were also reports of the Russians attacking other Russian ships in their own convoy. The American nation was outraged over the incident. Even the British were shocked by this incident as it happened so close to their own nation.
President Blackburn ordered the Atlantic Fleet to ready itself to sail to meet the Russian Fleet across the Atlantic. He also ready the nation for war against Russia over the incident. Russia, seeing it was in a world of hurt if the US entered the war took a face saving way out of the incident offered to them by their French allies. The Russian Fleet docked in Portugal and the officers who caused the incident were unloaded and the Russians gave their word that they wouldn’t fire again without making sure it was a Japanese flag vessel. Yet the North Sea Incident would poison American-Russian relations for decades to come.
Back in Manchuria the Japanese were focused on ending the Siege of Port Arthur. They wanted to free up the bulk of their army which was laying siege to Port Arthur so they could turn and face the Russian forces elsewhere in Manchuria. This would be a long battle unlike the quick campaign it had been against the Chinese in the 1894-95 war. This battle would see a number of new technologies, tactics and ideas tested in it. The Russians once they had settle into their trenches gave a better account of themselves than they had been in the open which forced the Japanese to really work for it.
Over the course of four months the Japanese advance the front at in a painful offensive. Casualties were high on both sides as the Japanese inched forward. The battle changed when the Japanese took Hill 203, known as it was 203 meters tall. It was a bloody battle but Hill 203 gave the owner a clear look at the harbor where the remaining ships of the Russian Pacific Fleet were currently dock. Hill 203 fell to the Japanese on December 17th. With Hill 203 in their hands the Japanese was able to bring up their Krupp made siege artillery and started to blast the Russian Fleet that was in the harbor at the time. One by one the huge 11 inch shells found their mark and when by destroying the Russian Pacific Fleet in the harbor.
As the Japanese when about blasting the Russian Pacific Fleet the most serious effort to break the siege of Port Arthur happened. The Battle of Anshan started on the 18th of December when the 1st Siberian Corp meet the Fourth Japanese Army. Even through the two units had different size names they were roughly the same size in the number of men. The 1st Siberian Corp was led by one of the better generals of the Russian Army at this point and had an able aid de camp in Colonel Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim. Over the course of the three day running battle at Anshan both sides gave as good as it got. The Russians only fell back after they had used every shell in their limbers for their artillery.
Back at Port Arthur by the 21st the First Pacific Fleet effetely was destroyed as the last cruiser slipped under the waves in port. The reason for holding Port Arthur now gone as there was no Russian Navy left to base there, the question of surrender came up. The Russians in this council of war rejected the idea of surrender at the moment. The Japanese kept up with their indirect assaults on the lines using tunneling and large amounts of explosives to blast holes in the Russian lines and forcing the Russians back. The topic was brought up again on the 24th and again on the 29th. Finally on the 31st the Russian commander surrendered his army to the Japanese. As the Japanese entered Port Arthur they were shocked by the vast stores of food and ammo they had just captured as the Russians could held out for months longer.
With Port Arthur in their hands, the Japanese were able to turn north and face the massing Russian Army which was building up in force. By this point the whole of the Japanese Army was in Manchuria. They had nothing left to bring into play at this point. The Russians have been reinforcing Manchuria and now had over 350,000 men in the province which out numbered the Japanese by just under 100,000 men. They also had more artillery in play than the Japanese. Yet for the Russians they had decided to hold up at Mukden for the winter after the failure of at Anshan. Yet the Japanese knew that the Second Pacific Fleet was on its way. They had to push the Russians deeper into Manchuria so they could hold a good position at the peace table as they knew they couldn’t outright defeat the Russians, yet they could still win if they got tired of this war.
The Battle of Mukden started on January 15th 1907. The Russians did have an idea that this was coming but were still not ready for a fight. Their senior commanders were too busy fighting each other over the next course of action they would take instead of readying their forces for an assault from the Japanese. The Japanese assault did knock some sense in them and they when about making sure they put up a fight. However, because of their infighting the Japanese managed to make some gains and take prisoners. The Japanese through had taken the initiative in the battle and were hell bend to keep it.
By the 19th the Japanese had started to break through the right flank of the Russian lines. To counter this the Russians shift one of their armies on the left flank to support the right. Only the 1st Manchurian Army got screwed up with the 4th Manchurian Army which was in the center as it made its moved. This broke up units and forced a major reorganization on the fly, something the Russians just couldn’t do. The Japanese smelling blood in the water ordered their Fourth Army which was on the left to turn the flank. The commander of the Fourth Army found a seem between the 2nd and 4th Manchurian Armies and cut the two off from each other. The Russian commander after learning of this ordered a counterattack to try and reconnect with the 2nd Manchurian. It was a bloody battle but the Japanese did fall back from their positions for 2nd Manchurian to escape.
Following their close brush with a major defeat the Russians decided to fall back. It was a humiliating defeat for the Russians. The lost at Mukden the Russians were effetely pushed out of Southern Manchuria. For the Japanese it was a major victory but far from the victory they were seeking. They had already overextending their logistical lines and couldn’t offer chase to the Russians. More importantly they hadn’t destroyed the Russian Armies in Manchuria. They came close with the 2nd Manchurian but it was able to escape. All eyes turned to the sea as the battle on land was all but over now.
Even with their close brush in North Sea Incident the Russian Second Pacific Fleet had done little to impressive the people following it. It was forced to take on coal at sea as the rules of war were such that no nation could allow it for more than 24 hours and it took longer to coal these ships. The British learned on their tailing and radio intelligence teams the Russians that the Germans were supporting the Russians in an effort to change the balance of power in Europe. This alarmed the British who were also worried about the expanding German naval programs.[1]
The fact the Russians hadn’t put into port during their trip from St. Petersburg meant their ships needed minor refits in some cases major ones. Ships have the current time weren’t designed for such long trips without port calls. This was a major factor with the Russian drive to reach Vladivostok before battling the Japanese. Moral was also a major issue within the Russian Second Pacific Fleet as the men hadn’t been allowed a port call to blow off steam. Worse off they knew the Japanese were waiting for them. For the Japanese they had a good idea where the Russians were at all times because of the Anglo-Japanese alliance. The British were passing on intelligence to the Japanese who wanted to see the Russians get knocked down a peg or two.
Togo had a chance to rest his own crews and refit his ships so they would be in peak fighting shape for the Russians. Looking at the map he knew the Russians would have to cross through either the Korean or Tsushima Straits to get to Vladivostok. He wanted to stop them before that happened and decided they would try to run the Tsushima Straits as it gave them more room to work with. On April 30th the Russian Fleet was spotted by Japanese scouts. The battle everyone was waiting for was now at hand.
What happened next at Tsushima proved to the world the Japanese were every bit as good as any other European Power. The heart of the Second Russian Pacific Fleet which was eight battleships and four coastal defense ships had been removed from the board. Three battleships and one coastal defense ship were taken as prizes by the Japanese. Another seven cruisers and four auxiliaries were also taken as prizes of wars by the Japanese, including the cruiser that was carrying the fleet payroll. Three other cruisers and another auxiliary had been sunk in the battle. The rest of the fleet managed to get to different ports in reach to be interned for the rest of the war.
It wasn’t even Tsushima that finally pushed Tsar Nicholas II to push for a cease fire and peace treaty with Japan. It was the fact revolutions were breaking out in more important parts of the empire. Nicholas II took the offer of Dona Isabel of Brazil[2] to broker a peace between the two waring nations. This would lead to the Treaty of Rio de Janeiro which was signed in September 1907. The Japanese gained the what amounted to all of the Liaodong Peninsula[3] and Southern Sakhalin[4] in terms of territorial gains. The rest of Manchuria was turned into a Buffer State between Japan and Russia. The Kingdom of Manchuria would be ruled by Guangxu Emperor[5] the deposed leader of the Qing Empire. Both nations got favorable trade deals from the newly created Kingdom of Manchuria. However, this fell far short of what Japan wanted out of the Treaty of Rio. Yet the Russians escape a major defeat even through they lost their warm water port and Manchuria. They had managed to keep about half of Sakhalin and kept from having to pay a war indemnity to Japan. With treaty in hand the Russians when about crushing the revolts breaking out through its empire.
[1] Germany wants a navy after its defeat in the Island War. However its scaled back from OTL levels but still fairly large. About 3/5 of what it was OTL would be a good idea how much money is going into their navy.
[2] Yeah the Empire of Brazil is still around.
[3] It’s the Dalin Sub-province City in size
[4] Its split on the 51st parallel north.
[5] Yeah China is already falling apart, but he escaped death but been living overseas since 1904.
The bigger effect of these two victories weren’t on the battlefield, but that of international finance. Japan was a nation with limited national resources even through it was radially industrizing. The gold reserves of the Japanese were far below many European nations and with the belief that the Russians would win this war had kept international banks from lending money to Japan. With the victories at Motien Pass and Yellow Sea through the view that Russia would outright win the war faded from view. Some banks and governments started to lend the Japanese money at affordable rates. This in turn gave the Japanese a needed boost in paying for this war.
On the night of October 19/20 1906 the nature of the Russo-Japanese War almost radically changed. Following the defeat of the Russian Pacific Fleet at Yellow Sea Tsar Nicholas II ordered the Baltic Fleet to sail to Vladivostok to form the Second Pacific Fleet. This move brought every battleship, cruiser, and number of auxiliary ships of the Baltic Fleet into play in what was to be one of the longest journeys ever made at war by steel warships only matched by the German efforts to reinforce the SW Pacific in the Island War.
The Second Pacific Fleet had a defeatist mindset and rumors ran wild of Japanese torpedo boats and battleship operating out of the British Isles in the North Sea. On the night the Russian look outs spotted what they believed to be a Japanese Battleship even through there was no Japanese Battleship with thousands of kilometers of their current location. The ship they spotted was the SS Haverford, an American flag passenger ship on the Boston-Hamburg run. She was carrying 819 souls on her as she was making her way to Hamburg. Yet at night the Russians believed her to be a Japanese battleship and open fire.
For the Russians the North Sea Incident almost led to war with the United States. The Haverford was severely damaged by Russian Naval Gunfire and barely made it to Edinburgh. Of the passengers and crew of the Haverford 201 of them died in the incident before the Russians ended their fire, 29 more would die before they reach Edinburgh. There were also reports of the Russians attacking other Russian ships in their own convoy. The American nation was outraged over the incident. Even the British were shocked by this incident as it happened so close to their own nation.
President Blackburn ordered the Atlantic Fleet to ready itself to sail to meet the Russian Fleet across the Atlantic. He also ready the nation for war against Russia over the incident. Russia, seeing it was in a world of hurt if the US entered the war took a face saving way out of the incident offered to them by their French allies. The Russian Fleet docked in Portugal and the officers who caused the incident were unloaded and the Russians gave their word that they wouldn’t fire again without making sure it was a Japanese flag vessel. Yet the North Sea Incident would poison American-Russian relations for decades to come.
Back in Manchuria the Japanese were focused on ending the Siege of Port Arthur. They wanted to free up the bulk of their army which was laying siege to Port Arthur so they could turn and face the Russian forces elsewhere in Manchuria. This would be a long battle unlike the quick campaign it had been against the Chinese in the 1894-95 war. This battle would see a number of new technologies, tactics and ideas tested in it. The Russians once they had settle into their trenches gave a better account of themselves than they had been in the open which forced the Japanese to really work for it.
Over the course of four months the Japanese advance the front at in a painful offensive. Casualties were high on both sides as the Japanese inched forward. The battle changed when the Japanese took Hill 203, known as it was 203 meters tall. It was a bloody battle but Hill 203 gave the owner a clear look at the harbor where the remaining ships of the Russian Pacific Fleet were currently dock. Hill 203 fell to the Japanese on December 17th. With Hill 203 in their hands the Japanese was able to bring up their Krupp made siege artillery and started to blast the Russian Fleet that was in the harbor at the time. One by one the huge 11 inch shells found their mark and when by destroying the Russian Pacific Fleet in the harbor.
As the Japanese when about blasting the Russian Pacific Fleet the most serious effort to break the siege of Port Arthur happened. The Battle of Anshan started on the 18th of December when the 1st Siberian Corp meet the Fourth Japanese Army. Even through the two units had different size names they were roughly the same size in the number of men. The 1st Siberian Corp was led by one of the better generals of the Russian Army at this point and had an able aid de camp in Colonel Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim. Over the course of the three day running battle at Anshan both sides gave as good as it got. The Russians only fell back after they had used every shell in their limbers for their artillery.
Back at Port Arthur by the 21st the First Pacific Fleet effetely was destroyed as the last cruiser slipped under the waves in port. The reason for holding Port Arthur now gone as there was no Russian Navy left to base there, the question of surrender came up. The Russians in this council of war rejected the idea of surrender at the moment. The Japanese kept up with their indirect assaults on the lines using tunneling and large amounts of explosives to blast holes in the Russian lines and forcing the Russians back. The topic was brought up again on the 24th and again on the 29th. Finally on the 31st the Russian commander surrendered his army to the Japanese. As the Japanese entered Port Arthur they were shocked by the vast stores of food and ammo they had just captured as the Russians could held out for months longer.
With Port Arthur in their hands, the Japanese were able to turn north and face the massing Russian Army which was building up in force. By this point the whole of the Japanese Army was in Manchuria. They had nothing left to bring into play at this point. The Russians have been reinforcing Manchuria and now had over 350,000 men in the province which out numbered the Japanese by just under 100,000 men. They also had more artillery in play than the Japanese. Yet for the Russians they had decided to hold up at Mukden for the winter after the failure of at Anshan. Yet the Japanese knew that the Second Pacific Fleet was on its way. They had to push the Russians deeper into Manchuria so they could hold a good position at the peace table as they knew they couldn’t outright defeat the Russians, yet they could still win if they got tired of this war.
The Battle of Mukden started on January 15th 1907. The Russians did have an idea that this was coming but were still not ready for a fight. Their senior commanders were too busy fighting each other over the next course of action they would take instead of readying their forces for an assault from the Japanese. The Japanese assault did knock some sense in them and they when about making sure they put up a fight. However, because of their infighting the Japanese managed to make some gains and take prisoners. The Japanese through had taken the initiative in the battle and were hell bend to keep it.
By the 19th the Japanese had started to break through the right flank of the Russian lines. To counter this the Russians shift one of their armies on the left flank to support the right. Only the 1st Manchurian Army got screwed up with the 4th Manchurian Army which was in the center as it made its moved. This broke up units and forced a major reorganization on the fly, something the Russians just couldn’t do. The Japanese smelling blood in the water ordered their Fourth Army which was on the left to turn the flank. The commander of the Fourth Army found a seem between the 2nd and 4th Manchurian Armies and cut the two off from each other. The Russian commander after learning of this ordered a counterattack to try and reconnect with the 2nd Manchurian. It was a bloody battle but the Japanese did fall back from their positions for 2nd Manchurian to escape.
Following their close brush with a major defeat the Russians decided to fall back. It was a humiliating defeat for the Russians. The lost at Mukden the Russians were effetely pushed out of Southern Manchuria. For the Japanese it was a major victory but far from the victory they were seeking. They had already overextending their logistical lines and couldn’t offer chase to the Russians. More importantly they hadn’t destroyed the Russian Armies in Manchuria. They came close with the 2nd Manchurian but it was able to escape. All eyes turned to the sea as the battle on land was all but over now.
Even with their close brush in North Sea Incident the Russian Second Pacific Fleet had done little to impressive the people following it. It was forced to take on coal at sea as the rules of war were such that no nation could allow it for more than 24 hours and it took longer to coal these ships. The British learned on their tailing and radio intelligence teams the Russians that the Germans were supporting the Russians in an effort to change the balance of power in Europe. This alarmed the British who were also worried about the expanding German naval programs.[1]
The fact the Russians hadn’t put into port during their trip from St. Petersburg meant their ships needed minor refits in some cases major ones. Ships have the current time weren’t designed for such long trips without port calls. This was a major factor with the Russian drive to reach Vladivostok before battling the Japanese. Moral was also a major issue within the Russian Second Pacific Fleet as the men hadn’t been allowed a port call to blow off steam. Worse off they knew the Japanese were waiting for them. For the Japanese they had a good idea where the Russians were at all times because of the Anglo-Japanese alliance. The British were passing on intelligence to the Japanese who wanted to see the Russians get knocked down a peg or two.
Togo had a chance to rest his own crews and refit his ships so they would be in peak fighting shape for the Russians. Looking at the map he knew the Russians would have to cross through either the Korean or Tsushima Straits to get to Vladivostok. He wanted to stop them before that happened and decided they would try to run the Tsushima Straits as it gave them more room to work with. On April 30th the Russian Fleet was spotted by Japanese scouts. The battle everyone was waiting for was now at hand.
What happened next at Tsushima proved to the world the Japanese were every bit as good as any other European Power. The heart of the Second Russian Pacific Fleet which was eight battleships and four coastal defense ships had been removed from the board. Three battleships and one coastal defense ship were taken as prizes by the Japanese. Another seven cruisers and four auxiliaries were also taken as prizes of wars by the Japanese, including the cruiser that was carrying the fleet payroll. Three other cruisers and another auxiliary had been sunk in the battle. The rest of the fleet managed to get to different ports in reach to be interned for the rest of the war.
It wasn’t even Tsushima that finally pushed Tsar Nicholas II to push for a cease fire and peace treaty with Japan. It was the fact revolutions were breaking out in more important parts of the empire. Nicholas II took the offer of Dona Isabel of Brazil[2] to broker a peace between the two waring nations. This would lead to the Treaty of Rio de Janeiro which was signed in September 1907. The Japanese gained the what amounted to all of the Liaodong Peninsula[3] and Southern Sakhalin[4] in terms of territorial gains. The rest of Manchuria was turned into a Buffer State between Japan and Russia. The Kingdom of Manchuria would be ruled by Guangxu Emperor[5] the deposed leader of the Qing Empire. Both nations got favorable trade deals from the newly created Kingdom of Manchuria. However, this fell far short of what Japan wanted out of the Treaty of Rio. Yet the Russians escape a major defeat even through they lost their warm water port and Manchuria. They had managed to keep about half of Sakhalin and kept from having to pay a war indemnity to Japan. With treaty in hand the Russians when about crushing the revolts breaking out through its empire.
[1] Germany wants a navy after its defeat in the Island War. However its scaled back from OTL levels but still fairly large. About 3/5 of what it was OTL would be a good idea how much money is going into their navy.
[2] Yeah the Empire of Brazil is still around.
[3] It’s the Dalin Sub-province City in size
[4] Its split on the 51st parallel north.
[5] Yeah China is already falling apart, but he escaped death but been living overseas since 1904.
Very good, if long update. You mention Brazil. Does the empire still exist ITTL? Or did I misread the update.
Nice updates. Russia lost 2 fleets, several thousands of men, and a lot of prestige. They also pissed off the US and have to deal with rebellions and such.
Japan gained honor but had to spend a lot of money and men to not really achieve their goals. Now they have to pay off the war loans and bills at home. This may cause them problems down the road.
The US will be taking notes on Japan's actions and tactics. Will they later aid Japan against Russia, or figure they are a future enemy due to their alliance with England?
Japan gained honor but had to spend a lot of money and men to not really achieve their goals. Now they have to pay off the war loans and bills at home. This may cause them problems down the road.
The US will be taking notes on Japan's actions and tactics. Will they later aid Japan against Russia, or figure they are a future enemy due to their alliance with England?
So the Germans are trying to help the Russians and the British know this, plus Russia-France are allies. The wild card here is the US, which the other powers still do not realize just wants to be left alone.
Yes the Empire of Brazil still exist ITL. Dona Isabel is the Empress of the Empire. She is working on grooming her son to take over. The fact the Empire has survived is going to create a beautiful mess IMO.
Let me put it do you like this, American-Japanese relations are complicated. The US is still without any allies and the Russians have poisoned that well. The US really just wants to be left alone but the British are still not happy about the Americans refusing to kiss their ring and are failing to understand that America is a power every big as they are.
A US-Japanese alliance would be a huge benefit here. Not only to both parties, but also to the British. Not only would an alliance between the two force everyone to reconsider any action in the Pacific - thus making everyone leave them alone - it would also promote a friendly relationship with the UK as Japan would act as a intermediary.
The only real downside here is that Japan is a bit...unpredictable in this era.
(Edit: incidentally, Jim is making me want to play Victoria 2 again. Thanks Jim!)
The only real downside here is that Japan is a bit...unpredictable in this era.
(Edit: incidentally, Jim is making me want to play Victoria 2 again. Thanks Jim!)
Cryostorm
Donor
Yeah, despite its age it is still a really good game, though I will still hope for a Vicky III. My usual start as the US is getting a claim on Colombia for Panama and the USCA for Costa Rica while working on getting Texas and the Mexican Cessation, with Sonora and Chihuahua added in later, and getting the Ostend Manifesto so I can take Cuba and Puerto Rico, with place in the sun claim, all before the Civil War fires. After that I work on strengthening my sphere with Brazil, Chile, and Japan and taking the Pacific Islands and kicking out the European powers from the western hemisphere.
See, I tried that. I saved Texas, got them incorporated, gained my cores on the west and went to war with Mexico. Took the cores, along with a small chunk of Northern Mexico, and all I got out of the deal was a war against the UK (British-American War of Containment). No matter what I try to do (I've retired about a dozen times now) I end up in that damn war and have Canada invade me.
Cryostorm
Donor
Generally I save Texas and get it to be a state first then go conquer Panama and Costa Rica while I wait for the truce with Mexico to go away. During this time i have my National Focuses on soldiers in NY and PA while researching the tech for the third NF to put in Ohio and I move them around after they hit 5% soldiers (the max it can hit). The second tech I go for in romanticism to get the Manifest Destiny decision and then i focus on getting all the available army techs and the one tech for faster research so by 1845-1848 you should have three to four powerful armies and likely one of the most advanced ones as well and can force Britain to a white peace after wiping a couple armies and occupying south eastern Canada. Just do not try to fight them at sea until after the Civil War is won.