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I took my two Razzies and another of my Emmys and I set them in my EGOT Case, right next to the Emmy, Grammy, Oscar, and Tony, making it an “O REGRET”. It’s the greatest memorial to the ups and downs of Hollywood I could ever care to mention!

Talk about an EGOT Check.

Yea, I struck out hard with Valkenvania. But you know what? Show me a man who hasn’t struck out, and I’ll show you a man unwilling to swing for the fences!
it probably would even be felt as karma balancing, you can't do all those good movies without a bad one.
Bit like the superstition on accidents in certain jobs, that if there for example is an average accident rate of 1 in 20, every 20th crew is almost certain to have trouble.
subconscious fulfilling the stats, almost as a sacrifice to the Norns of Fate.
 
I guess even the brilliant Bernie Brillstein makes a stinker occasionally. Sounds like Valkenvania needed more doctoring before it left script stage and no Chase here- Brillstien might be exaggerating, but does come across as the 'villain' here.

Still at least Brillstien and co picked up their Razzies in person- that takes some guts and style. I bet Chase was not pleased to be name checked!

Wonder if Valkenvania made any cash back on video and TV?

Onwards and upwards as they say. Thanks for the fun chapter @Geekhis Khan
 
It’s so strange to me that I’d never heard (or at least have no recollection) of Bernie Brillstein before this TL; the man is a treasure, a horrifically-hilarious, hungrily-heartfelt example of our capacity as humans to learn and grow along the way of our lives. Assuming the TL gets there, it will be a somber day when we learn that his accounts have dried up; never again to make us smile or grin, tear up or wince. But damn if it’s not telling of how he perceives everyone he works with.

So, Linda Fiorentino had the dubious honour of co-starring in this turd opposite Chevy Chase, instead of Demi Moore? Yikes; given that I wonder how much her own reputed difficult-to-work-with attitude was true IOTL (where it basically killed MIB2 by forcing them to bring back Tommy Lee Jones and undo his character’s ending, no matter how much I liked MIB3), I’m curious what this’ll do to her career if it hasn’t been killed off yet. I hope we do see her pop up again, because I’m curious about whether she’ll be able to thrive ITTL (and in this day and age, I’m skeptical that it was wholly her fault like we heard; although it’s not like people in general can’t develop egos and be hard to work with, for women and minorities it can be a little suspect because they’re judged harsher than white males for being assertive and pushy… whether or not we like to admit it).

Which conveniently lets me segue into something I was wondering: a number of people who crossed paths with a certain Miramax founder were getting blacklisted IOTL, especially actresses who refused his advances like Rosanna Arquette. What’s the potential consequences for a big company like Disney hiring blacklisted figures, and would it potentially lead to a much earlier exposure of Weinstein? And though I’d not be surprised if Harvey avoided any partnership with them ITTL (if he expected that they’d not like him, assuming he’s even self-aware of that possibility), the fact that Jim Henson and his close associates rarely meet someone who Jim’s not going to get along with has me morbidly curious as to what he’d think of Weinstein: could he be one of the first people that makes Henson hate him at first sight?

… On a lighter note, the evolving state of puppetry makes me wonder if the equivalent of South Park will instead manifest in that format as opposed to animation. If anything, that would probably make it better-regarded for anyone that deducts points for the show’s minimalist art style (which has, let’s be honest, always been the least impressive aspect of it). The more I think about it, the more convinced I am it SHOULD have been puppetry!
it probably would even be felt as karma balancing, you can't do all those good movies without a bad one.
Bit like the superstition on accidents in certain jobs, that if there for example is an average accident rate of 1 in 20, every 20th crew is almost certain to have trouble.
subconscious fulfilling the stats, almost as a sacrifice to the Norns of Fate.
Wasn’t there another movie in Brillstein’s memoir that also fell hard, if more financially? Or was it this piece, and I got it mixed up? It’s in the same post where Bernie mentioned that Jim’s failure was yet to come, so it shouldn’t be too hard to track down…
I guess even the brilliant Bernie Brillstein makes a stinker occasionally. Sounds like Valkenvania needed more doctoring before it left script stage and no Chase here- Brillstien might be exaggerating, but does come across as the 'villain' here.
I first heard about it in relation to Community, but Chevy Chase indeed is quite a handful to work with even if he’s not necessarily as bad as Bernie Brillstein makes him out to be. He can’t have been the sole contributor to the film failing, though.
Still at least Brillstien and co picked up their Razzies in person- that takes some guts and style. I bet Chase was not pleased to be name checked!
It’s always a credit to anyone that’s actually willing to accept a Razzie, even if some “winners” probably weren’t nearly as bad as was alleged. It’s why I didn’t write off Halle Berry for Catwoman IOTL (the fact it killed plans for her Die Another Day character getting spun off is another reason). But on TTL, it’s telling of why Bernie warns Jim off trying to save Toys given his own past experience with how hard it can be to save a bad script; those Razzies are a constant reminder to not be possessed of one’s hubris.
Wonder if Valkenvania made any cash back on video and TV?

Onwards and upwards as they say. Thanks for the fun chapter @Geekhis Khan
Who can say for sure? It’ll probably be spoofed by folks later, possibly including the MTS3K crew during their show, and may at least earn a reputation for how messy it is! Still, as we all know, as you (and Bernie) said, you just gotta take these things on the chin and look to the future!
 
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This movie is... something to say the least. I really hate the razzies, so regardless if Bernie and co. accepted it, I really hate they got nominated.
So, Linda Fiorentino had the dubious honour of co-starring in this turd opposite Chevy Chase, instead of Demi Moore? Yikes; given that I wonder how much her own reputed difficult-to-work-with attitude was true IOTL (where it basically killed MIB2 by forcing them to bring back Tommy Lee Jones and undo his character’s ending, no matter how much I liked MIB3), I’m curious what this’ll do to her career if it hasn’t been killed off yet. I hope we do see her pop up again, because I’m curious about whether she’ll be able to thrive ITTL (and in this day and age, I’m skeptical that it was wholly her fault like we heard; although it’s not like people in general can’t develop egos and be hard to work with, for women and minorities it can be a little suspect because they’re judged harsher than white males for being assertive and pushy… whether or not we like to admit it).
Hmm, maybe this movie makes whoever makes MiB think against casting her thanks to this. Though yeah, blaming her is a bit wrong to say the least.
 
The way this is worded implies MST3K doesn’t get cancelled in 1999 ITTL. True or false?
Also, is Jim Mallon still involved? His name was conspicuously missing and it was problems between him, J. Elvis, Joel, Trace, and Frank that lead to all leaving. He also alienated Mike, Kevin & Bill by killing their first attempt at an MST follow-up, The Film Crew.

Now for the latest chapter -
Based only on the Almost Cult Podcast's episode on Nothing But Trouble my understanding is Chevy, while clearly miserable, didn't take it out on the cast too much. It sounds like besides having a poor script to begin with Danny let everyone have too much freedom to improvise and basically direct themselves - he gave the main cast their own monitors to review their scenes. But he could be on worse behavior TTL and it can also be written up to this being Bernie's perspective.

Also got to note that based on it coming out 1-2 years earlier the movie is lacking one of it's only redeeming factors, besides John Candy's usual charming and likable presence in his main role as ultimately heroic grandson of the Judge -

 
And you know what? Danny, Rob, and I showed up at the Razzies and accepted those bastards in person!
Class act! It takes style to accept a Razzie in person, good to see all three of them take the honours.
I took my two Razzies and another of my Emmys and I set them in my EGOT Case, right next to the Emmy, Grammy, Oscar, and Tony, making it an “O REGRET”. It’s the greatest memorial to the ups and downs of Hollywood I could ever care to mention!
More style right here. I'm... actually kind of hoping Bernie earns another Razzie at some point, just so both of them in the case won't be for the same movie!
 
It occurs to me that with a different "career" path for Carolco either the film Wagons East of John Candy's role in will be butterflied away and so either John Candy never has his heart attack in 1994 for if he still does he survives do less stress from not doing Wagons East.

I kinda want to see this made ITTL:
And with no sequel to Home Alone it's a possibility.

With John Candy surviving we could also get a 1990s remake of Last Holiday and him as the turkey Redfeather in Pocahontas.

While we're on the subject of saving people maybe we can save Sam Kinison to do A Confederacy of Dunces.
 
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It occurs to me that with a different "career" path for Carolco either the film Wagons East of John Candy's role in will be butterflied away and so either John Candy never has his heart attack in 1994 for if he still does he survives do less stress from not doing Wagons East.

I kinda want to see this made ITTL:
And with no sequel to Home Alone it's a possibility.


With John Candy surviving we could also get a 1990s remake of Last Holiday and him as the turkey Redfeather in Pocahontas.

While we're on the subject of saving people maybe we can save Sam Kinison to do A Confederacy of Dunces.
I would like to see John Hughes make a Disney movie
Hmm, why not both: Bartholomew Vs Neff, coming soon from Disney/Hyperion!

Side note: what's going on with Bohbot and BKN? Just asking.
 
Roll for Initiative...
Dragonlance (1991-1996)
From Nostalgia was Way Better when I was a Kid Netsite, February 12th, 2004


If you’re “of a certain age” then you remember the first time that Dungeons & Dragons came to the small screen. It was the campy, choppily-animated eponymous series that followed a group of teens who took the wrong theme park ride into the “World of Dungeons & Dragons”, and it has managed to be both scorned and beloved, generally by the exact same people. It combined a B-movie premise and flat characters with a wafer-thin veneer of D&D over the top; characters whose titles were the literal names of their Advanced Dungeons & Dragons character classes. And we loved it.

Dungeons_and_Dragons_DVD_boxset_art.jpg

From the Before Time…the Long, Long Ago…

If you’re of a slightly different age then you undoubtedly remember the second time that D&D came to the small screen, and you probably didn’t even realize that it was D&D. Sure, it had both dungeons and dragons – hell, especially dragons – but unless you read the credits then you probably had no idea that it was another D&D cartoon. And with fleshed out characters, an actual meta-plot, and real consequences for its characters, it’s easy to not realize that the first time the events of this story happened, people were rolling polyhedral dice in the background.

Dragonlance-Logo.jpg


The show was Dragonlance, an animated series by Disney’s Marvel Productions’ TSR division and based upon the Hickman and Weis book series and campaign world of the same name. The show more-or-less follows the events of the novels, with the “Chronicles” trilogy largely making up the events of seasons 1-3 and elements from the “Legends” filling up seasons 4 & 5. Dragonlance followed the characters from the novels and original D&D campaign: Ranger Tanis Half-Elvin, the brave but troubled lead hero. Knight of Solamnia Sturm Brightblade, the brave, noble, and self-sacrificing man of honor. Cleric Goldmoon, a pious and caring woman dedicated to serving goodness and right. Flint Fireforge, a brusque and dour but brave and reliable dwarf. The childlike “kender” Tasselhoff Burrfoot, the comic relief, who was good at getting into guarded places, and getting into trouble. The fighter Caramon Majere, a big, tough guy who is brave and friendly, but slow on the uptake. And finally, the fan-favorite, dark wizard Raistlin Majere, brother of Caramon, a shadowy, ambitious, and troubled mage who would upend the world with his actions. And (no spoilers, I promise) they were not afraid to kill off a main character on occasion, albeit in the most bloodless, PG rated way possible.

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(Image source “dragonlancenexus.com”)

In addition to the main characters, the show featured recurring characters and villains such as the forgetful wizard Fizban the Fabulous (who held a surprise twist) and his geriatric gold dragon, Tanis’ love interests Kitiara and Laurana, Caramon’s love interest Tika, the villainous Dragon Highlord Verminaard, and the evil dragon goddess Takhisis, who bore an uncanny resemblance to Tiamat from the earlier cartoon leading to fan crossover theories (truthfully the “crossover” was the fact that both were based on the same AD&D adventure game, but fans will be fans). The unique races of Dragonlance were represented as well. In addition to the obligatory elves, dwarves, goblins, and ogres, you had the troublesome kender, the obnoxious gulley dwarves, and the eccentric tinker gnomes. The fearsome Draconians were also brought to life as recurring villains, each one dying in spectacular and often dangerous ways.

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Draconians (Image source “villains.fandom.com”)

The animation itself was realistic and based heavily on the original Jeff Easley artwork. It was a cut above the competition at the time, making use of the Disney DATA computer systems for framing, blocking, coloring, and compositing for some scenes, and was one of the first things animated at Disney’s new Eastern Studios complex at Walt Disney World, and thus available for tours out of the Entertainment Pavilion at EPCOT. There’s a vivid, flowing, and organic quality to the animation generally not seen on small screens at the time. The scenes of swooping dragons and flights through clouds and mountains are still impressive to this day, even if the computerized source of the movement is more apparent to audiences today than it was in the ‘90s. Eagle-eyed fans can even recognize recycled framing sequences from movies such as Where the Wild Things Are, A Small World, Aladdin, and Mort. There are also occasional recycled sequences from The Three Musketeers and other TV animation as well. Even knowing this, fans report loving the sequences. And kids who grew up with the cartoon now lovingly watch it as adults, often with their own kids, enjoying it now for different reasons.

The series aired on the PFN network in the Wednesday Afterschool slot where it grabbed and held on to a small and diverse viewership of kids, nerdy teens, and nerdy young adults with a viewership that had a significant female component despite the assumption by the network that they’d have a predominantly male audience. It also did well on VHS and VCD, helped sell Dragonlance novels, toys, and game supplements, and garnered the ire of moral guardians, some of whom disliked the violence and suggestions of adult relationships, and (needless to say) some of whom saw it as a gateway to satanism. Fans of the novels, meanwhile, were rather mixed about some of the creative liberties taken to fit into the largely episodic series[1].

The success of Dragonlance even led to a short-lived spin-off, in this case an attempt to bring the retro-futuristic Spelljammer fantasy/sci-fi blend campaign world[2] to the small screen. This resulted in a two-season show that to this day maintains a small but fanatical cult following. Spelljammer followed an eccentric crew of antiheroes and misfits of different fantasy races (including Goblinoid) as they flew across the “spheres” of space in a beat-up old Dragonfly class spelljammer and tried to avoid the prying eyes of the Elven Navy. It has lived on in VHS and VCD and is generally considered the poster child for “cult series” and “screwed by the network”.

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You Can’t Take the Spheres from Me (Image source “nerdarchy.com”)

In all, Dragonlance is fondly remembered as a show that was in certain respects ahead of its time. It had groundbreaking animation. It had mature content that made it popular with viewers of all ages. It was exciting and well-written. And thus, while the original Dungeons & Dragons TV cartoon has only a small handful of nostalgic Gen-X’ers watching it today, Dragonlance is beloved by fans of all ages, some of who to this day have no idea that it’s a Dungeons & Dragons cartoon.

Should you see it? Yes, definitely. It’s a well put together cartoon that bridges age and era and proves that just because your audience is young it doesn’t mean that you have to assume that they’re dumb.

And yes, a whole article and not a single Xanax reference. Eat it, haters!



[1] In 2014 Disney Direct rebooted the series as a CG animation. Thanks to the binge-able nature, it followed the books more closely and is meta-plot driven rather than largely episodic. Controversially, they gave some of the characters a “race lift” seeking to add diversity to the originally lily-white cast, which needless to say led to anger of a different sort from a certain segment of the fandom.

[2] Created as per our timeline as a joke on Lorraine Williams, who was pushing for a Star Trek rip-off RPG. It is sometimes cited as the proximate event that drove her from Marvel/TSR and into Disney Publishing. Eventually TSR will launch a highly successful Babylon 5 game and achieve her aims in a more organic way.
 
This is quite an incredible show for this TL!
Wonder who voices who for Dragonlance.
The PFN mention legimately surprised me. I thought it would air on a Dianey-owned channel like.... Disney Channelor Hyperion, or NBC (which I'm quite certain Disney will buy ITTL). But hey, Disney's aired stuff on CBS, so who the hell am I to comment?
 
I am quite surprised by how good D&D's second animated series turned out. It's so good that I think those who watch the original cartoon would mostly watch it ironically. But that's just me.

Between Disney Toontown with Space Cats and the PFN with Dragonlance, I think we need a chapter dedicated to broadcast syndication and how it works ITTL. Maybe even with a couple of schedules to go with it.
 
Ah, Dungeons & Dragons cartoon- still be a favourite of mine ITTL cos of when it was on and the age I was at the time.m, however this Dragonlance show sounds exactly the sort of thing I would be watching, enjoying, and seeking the merch for- given I have some of the books and comics to that day, I am def the audience here!

The animation sounds wonderful if it still holds up many years later. I suspect the demands of the series and spin-off’s will really help ‘bed in’ the new Disney machines and the place for this sort of animation.

Where the Minotaurs featured in the story @Geekhis Khan? Be great to see them, esp as they are kinda non- enemies unlike Draconians.

Running on PFN instead of a Disney channel is interesting. Why did it go there?

Getting a spin-off for Spelljammer is very amusing to me. Although it only got got 2 seasons I wonder if Planescape might be next?
 
This sounds amazing. I was a keen reader of both the Dragonlance and Spelljammer novels (and Forgotten Realms) despite having very rarely thrown a twenty-sided die in my life; I would definitely be there for this.
a viewership that had a significant female component despite the assumption by the network that they’d have a predominantly male audience.
And that didn't kill it, or at least lead to severe retooling to downplay the female characters and amp up the "people hitting each other" aspects? More good news; network execs are evidently less weird about this than they are IOTL.
 
And that didn't kill it, or at least lead to severe retooling to downplay the female characters and amp up the "people hitting each other" aspects? More good news; network execs are evidently less weird about this than they are IOTL.
That' probably just the Disney ones though. Else, most execs are probably the same lousy gender segregationists you'd expect from this culture.
This sounds amazing. I was a keen reader of both the Dragonlance and Spelljammer novels (and Forgotten Realms) despite having very rarely thrown a twenty-sided die in my life; I would definitely be there for this.
I am quite surprised by how good D&D's second animated series turned out. It's so good that I think those who watch the original cartoon would mostly watch it ironically. But that's just me.
Ah, Dungeons & Dragons cartoon- still be a favourite of mine ITTL cos of when it was on and the age I was at the time.m, however this Dragonlance show sounds exactly the sort of thing I would be watching, enjoying, and seeking the merch for- given I have some of the books and comics to that day, I am def the audience here!
Was never a D&D guy, but glad y'all like it!
The animation sounds wonderful if it still holds up many years later. I suspect the demands of the series and spin-off’s will really help ‘bed in’ the new Disney machines and the place for this sort of animation.
Me too.
 
Ah, another show I totally would have watched if I had lived in a region that got that channel. I read Dragonlance multiple times when I was younger, although it was my brother who was the bigger fan.
Spelljammer is a surprise addition, nice to see that get a pair of seasons, even if it did get 'screwed by the network'.
significant female component despite the assumption by the network that they’d have a predominantly male audience
The failure of the 20th Century to recognize that 'girls like nerd shit too' is one of those things I'll never wrap my head around, like the London Parliament's historical antipathy to the Irish. "You're not a real nerd, you're a girl" is a very real phrase I have both heard and probably said at some point (I was young and dumb once).
It's doubly amusing in the context of TTRPGs that in my experience women have been the majority player base, especially of fantasy settings.
Holy crap you actually made the Kender, one of Dragonlances most hated races, bearable. Good show!
I very much doubt that.
 
I'm not into D&D, and it's likely that I might not have been into the franchise ITTL (could be one of those viewers that didn't know Dragonlance was D&D) but I'm glad that this exists for the geekdom. Plus, Disney finally gets to use D&D for something unrelated to MickeyQuest, so it's nice that they are providing content for fans, even if they're not as enthused.

The animation itself was realistic and based heavily on the original Jeff Easley artwork. It was a cut above the competition at the time, making use of the Disney DATA computer systems for framing, blocking, coloring, and compositing for some scenes, and was one of the first things animated at Disney’s new Eastern Studios complex at Walt Disney World, and thus available for tours out of the Entertainment Pavilion at EPCOT.
Wait...why aren't people talking about this? This means that there's an animation studio branch in WDW!!!
My mind is kind of exploding at this being canon, since it means Disney could pump out more animated content (most likely in the form of TV if the eastern branch is focused on that) over the years. Heck, maybe even ITTL Mulan could be animated here just like OTL.

[1] In 2014 Disney Direct rebooted the series as a CG animation. Thanks to the binge-able nature, it followed the books more closely and is meta-plot driven rather than largely episodic. Controversially, they gave some of the characters a “race lift” seeking to add diversity to the originally lily-white cast, which needless to say led to anger of a different sort from a certain segment of the fandom.
Well, I guess that was inevitable, but let's hope the current developments make them a much smaller element of the fandom than OTL.
 
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