Status
Not open for further replies.
Is there ways Disney parks can save money like bulk ordering stationary, investing in early networking/email for memos, solar and wind power, less duplicate staff roles, trimming middle management, or things like perhaps cheaper food/drink to drive demand up?
At this point (early 90s) solar and wind are a lot more expensive than standard power. They are also not something you want to rush into, all the cost is up front and you can't upgrade them once installed. Decent graph here - IEA data. You can quibble on the numbers, they are very sensitive to your cost of debt, but the trend is correct. At this point the interest on the debt incurred to build the solar/wind would be larger than the saving on power bills, plus the last thing Disney needs is more debt!

By around 2010 it is getting very competitive (if you are somewhere sunny, or have cheap debt, or have some form of government subsidy) by 2020 it is generally cheaper (usual issues around storage/demand aside). Something for the next generation of Disney parks perhaps.

Cutting middle management always sounds good, but hits the issue that the people implementing the cuts are... middle management. (Senior management normally have no idea how the firm runs, and juniors sacking their bosses makes CEOs nervous. After all most corporations would probably run fine for years if the entire C-suite died in a freak private jet crash and weren't replaced). So I'd be wary of that plan.

What might make a difference is Disney bucking the corporate fashion of sacking secretaries/admin assistants/whatever you want to call them. The idea of 'cutting costs' by sacking such people and getting staff to do their own admin does bring short term savings, but it ends in very highly paid managers/engineers/whatever wasting time doing low skill admin tasks not the job you paid them for.
 
At this point (early 90s) solar and wind are a lot more expensive than standard power. They are also not something you want to rush into, all the cost is up front and you can't upgrade them once installed. Decent graph here - IEA data. You can quibble on the numbers, they are very sensitive to your cost of debt, but the trend is correct. At this point the interest on the debt incurred to build the solar/wind would be larger than the saving on power bills, plus the last thing Disney needs is more debt!
Disney actually has been putting in a bit of solar and wind at parks, though largely for the show/promise at this stage ("The future of power is here today!"). They're not really saving Disney any money at this point, but possibly bringing in some tourist dollars. As per OTL they're also using NG cogeneration plants to increase energy efficiency for HVAC. It's mostly PV cells in the US since neither Anaheim or Orlando is in a good "wind zone" whereas Valencia will have PV and a small wind farm if only to support the inevitable Don Quixote jokes.

Note that you *can* upgrade solar or wind if you prepare for it up front, like having the electrical infrastructure (wire sizing, conduits, etc.) that supports the expected higher wattage levels on the power side (by the mid 1990s PV cells had reached workable efficiencies to be profitable in theory, but needed investment in manufacturing techniques to make them commercially viable; this investment didn't really come until the late 2000s IOTL). If you have the supporting electrical infrastructure in place PV cells just need to be swapped out with newer, more efficient ones in that case. Having standardized physical and electrical interfaces (IEEE and NIST could/should have taken some early leadership there) will help a lot, as a lot of what made using renewable energy such a pain IOTL was that each company had their own proprietary interfaces and connectors and cell sizes and cell voltages (like going from an iPhone to an Android and back with each upgrade). Government incentives that reduce the cost/risk can help if properly implemented. Wind would require the larger foundations for the larger windmills be installed, of course, unless you predicted the trends and acted up front (since the size trends, driven primarily by blade size manufacturing skills, have tended to remain pretty constant, a smart engineering team could predict and respond up front, assuming they can convince the managers to pay up front for the larger infrastructure).

In general, Renewable in the late '80s/early '90s wouldn't be profitable without government incentives, but some steps taken at this stage like standardized interfaces and forward-looking infrastructure, could have you in a good position to take advantage of advances as they come. Assuming you can think beyond the next fiscal quarter, of course, which few public companies can.
 
I've always said that "thrifty" buys off-brand toilet paper while "cheap" rinses out the sheets for reuse. Pressler definitely veered into "cheap" IMO. He did exactly what he was hired and appointed to do, of course, which speaks to the values of Disney management IOTL.

From Wiki: "At Disneyland, Pressler was known for cost-cutting measures such as reducing customer service training, having workers wash their own uniforms and closing rides and shows early. He attempted to discontinue a disabled discount but was forced to back off after backlash. With the cost cutting, Disneyland was profitable while attendance declined."

That's all cheap thinking, IMO. Let's shave a few bucks by screwing our customers and employees. I can't see him fitting in or getting promoted in this TL's Disney. Totally different corporate values.

Pressler will not be working at Disney ITTL. He was hired into Disney Consumer Products in 1987 IOTL. ITTL he'll take the job at Mattel instead.
Good to know, but man this does change everything for the 90s, doesn't it?

He had extreme control over Disneyland as President and later the theme parks as Chairman of Parks and Resorts. Things are going to be very different once Jack Lindquist retires in 93 (who would even replace him anyways?).

Now I am really curious about what the netsites will think of the ITTL Disney Recreation over time. Al Lutz, Jim Hill, and others practically made bank on criticizing Michael Eisner, Paul Pressler, and Cynthia Harriss during the 90s, and that's basically gone with the Disney Triumvirate and their clear intention to keep Disney as a high-quality experience in the theme parks. Maybe we'll see them again soon, but probably to whip Disney back into shape when they inevitably will slip up on at least something.

Hoping that Mr. Toad's Wild Ride at WDW remains open even with the absence of Paul Pressler (also Snow White's Scary Adventures), because those attractions definitely didn't deserve to be closed.

Is there ways Disney parks can save money like bulk ordering stationary, investing in early networking/email for memos, solar and wind power, less duplicate staff roles, trimming middle management, or things like perhaps cheaper food/drink to drive demand up?
Disney will have to be a lot more creative in trying to drive down costs while also maximizing revenue since rampant cost-cutting won't be a thing for the 90s. Stuff like maintenance, management, construction, wages, and etc. do not come cheap, especially for Disney's high standards. In that case, the only way they could hope to increase profits aside from creative cost-cutting solutions is by vastly increasing revenue from merch, food/drink, and admission prices.

IIRC, Disney has increased park prices during the 80s ITTL to great success, but I won't be surprised if Disney does it again for DisneySea's opening and onwards. Their policy towards annual pass is also something to think about since they could either lower AP prices for increased yearly attendance but lower merchandise or increase them to make room for seasonal tourists that would spend more on merchandise.

I won't be surprised if Recreation tries to bring down CM wages over time to maximize profit, even if the decline is far less pronounced than OTL, although there could be heated drama if they went through with that plan.

Any status on Mickey's Birthdayland/Starland for the Magic Kingdom? If it was built for Mickey's special 60th birthday by 1988, then the Magic Kingdom would have 7 themed lands by around 1989 (Main Street U.S.A, Fantasyland, Adventureland, Frontierland, Tomorrowland, Muppetland, and now Mickey's Birthdayland) on top of the new attractions Imagineering has been putting out. It's absolutely wild at how big MK could theoretically be ITTL.

Plus it's a good excuse to release a Mickey's Starland/Toontown in Disneyland as a new addition to the theme park.
 
A thought on Disneytown Philadelphia, Sam the Eagle hosting something appropriately patriotic.
Maybe get some education in with a co host who restrains his enthusiasm with facts.
 
Last edited:
Note that you *can* upgrade solar or wind if you prepare for it up front, like having the electrical infrastructure (wire sizing, conduits, etc.) that supports the expected higher wattage levels on the power side (by the mid 1990s PV cells had reached workable efficiencies to be profitable in theory, but needed investment in manufacturing techniques to make them commercially viable; this investment didn't really come until the late 2000s IOTL). If you have the supporting electrical infrastructure in place PV cells just need to be swapped out with newer, more efficient ones in that case. Having standardized physical and electrical interfaces (IEEE and NIST could/should have taken some early leadership there) will help a lot, as a lot of what made using renewable energy such a pain IOTL was that each company had their own proprietary interfaces and connectors and cell sizes and cell voltages (like going from an iPhone to an Android and back with each upgrade). Government incentives that reduce the cost/risk can help if properly implemented. Wind would require the larger foundations for the larger windmills be installed, of course, unless you predicted the trends and acted up front (since the size trends, driven primarily by blade size manufacturing skills, have tended to remain pretty constant, a smart engineering team could predict and respond up front, assuming they can convince the managers to pay up front for the larger infrastructure).
For 90s solar the entire cost is essentially the PV module. The electrical infrastructure and supports are at best a rounding error to the price, the massive cost reduction has come from getting the modules cheaper and more efficient not anything else. So yeah you could drop in a new module, but it would cost roughly the same as building a brand new system.

Wind, you could over-build the foundation and connections, but again the bulk of your cost is in the windmill and generator so it is a bit of a saving but not much.

More importantly if you do that then the Disney accountants will strangle you for ruining their careful depreciation schedule and causing the company a massive (accounting) loss. Which again, is not something Disney can afford if it starts piling up a large debt load with all these parks.

In general, Renewable in the late '80s/early '90s wouldn't be profitable without government incentives, but some steps taken at this stage like standardized interfaces and forward-looking infrastructure, could have you in a good position to take advantage of advances as they come. Assuming you can think beyond the next fiscal quarter, of course, which few public companies can.
I wouldn't hold out much hope on the government helping, the only group with a shorter time horizon than US public companies are US politicians.
 
A thought on Disneytown Philadelphia, Sam the Eagle hosting something appropriately patriotic.
Maybe get some education in with a co host who restrains his enthusiasm with facts.
That makes sense, thanks for the idea.

For 90s solar the entire cost is essentially the PV module. The electrical infrastructure and supports are at best a rounding error to the price, the massive cost reduction has come from getting the modules cheaper and more efficient not anything else. So yeah you could drop in a new module, but it would cost roughly the same as building a brand new system.

Wind, you could over-build the foundation and connections, but again the bulk of your cost is in the windmill and generator so it is a bit of a saving but not much.

More importantly if you do that then the Disney accountants will strangle you for ruining their careful depreciation schedule and causing the company a massive (accounting) loss. Which again, is not something Disney can afford if it starts piling up a large debt load with all these parks.


I wouldn't hold out much hope on the government helping, the only group with a shorter time horizon than US public companies are US politicians.
How often are you upgrading here? If you're trying to upgrade every year or two, yea, not much sense in it. I figure at most you're upgrading every 10 years, possibly 20 depending on the cells. By that point the price-benefit calculus is totally different. You can get your depreciation and whatever tax incentives (common in the 1990s in the US) and frankly claim the loss. For a small or middle-sized firm that's not workable, but for a multi-billion dollar international corporation the few million you spend isn't going to break the bank here compared to the hundreds of millions you sent on the parks.

But we're talking different things here. I fully agree that renewable in the 1990s isn't going to save money. At best you're breaking even. In Disney's case it's part of the "experience" more than anything else.
 
A thought on Disneytown Philadelphia, Sam the Eagle hosting something appropriately patriotic.
Maybe get some education in with a co host who restrains his enthusiasm with facts.
Interesting idea, maybe they use Dick Clark or Harry Kalas, for the Philly connection?
 
But I hardly know the Mario!
Let’s Do the Mario!
Numbskull Nate’s Nostalgic Nintendo Netsite, September 12th, 1999


Hey, remember this? “Swing your arms from side to side!”

1620471424990.png

(Image source “mario.fandom.com”)

Yes, folks, it’s time to Do the Mario![1] A decade ago, that insane mix of live action and animation debuted in first run syndication, the very first production of Wayward Entertainment.


Looking back, I’m like, damn, did I watch this? Did I really love watching a fat guy in a bad mustache dance and sing in front of a green screen to introduce an animated TV show based on a video game? You’re damned right I loved it. I still do, cheese and all! And while a certain former neighbor turned investment banker named Kyle who shall remain nameless may claim otherwise, we watched it religiously. For my whole fourth grade class, this was the show to watch after school, giving life and voices to the characters we loved playing on our NES.

But how did this happen? What madness led to a professional wrestler dressing like an Italian plumber created by a Japanese gaming company and doing a silly chromakey dance?

Strap in, folks, because like squaring the square root of a negative turd, shit is about to get real[2].

It all starts with a man named Andy Heyward. OK, it all all starts with a man named Shigeru Miyamoto in 1981 with a character named Jump Man and an ape for some reason named after a donkey, and then a rude Italian American landlord in Seattle, but the show itself starts with Andy Heyward.

You see, in 1986 Heyward had managed to acquire a controlling interest in the struggling DIC Entertainment, an international animation company behind a large number of your favorite Saturday Morning shows. He was the Chairman and CEO. He was also struggling to keep the company together and solvent as the costs of animation began to spike in the late 1980s. He made a deal with ABC’s Jeffrey Katzenberg in 1987 for a new feature length film called Return of the Littles. “I will regret that deal until the day I die,” he said later.

If you’ve never heard of that film, there’s a reason. It had a notoriously troubled production rife with executive micromanagement and arrogance and it crashed and burned at the box office. Struggling to stay solvent, Heyward agreed to sell a controlling interest in DIC to ABC with a promise of retaining corporate independence. This became a second big mistake, because once DIC became Hollywood Animation, the micromanagement became chronic, and soon Heyward was finding himself increasingly pushed aside by Katzenberg, who was assigned control of the division by Hollywood Pictures Chairman Michael Eisner.

7f1b8ca1078933b242268c53b7d382f9.jpg

Image Apropos of Nothing at All… (Image source “pinterest.com”)

Katzenberg, whom the animators began to call “the DIC Head” behind his back, was a pretty imperious guy back then, and Heyward was an obstacle rather than a valued team member. So, with his powers reduced to a figurehead status, a disgruntled Heyward sold his remaining shares and quit.

“I might have stuck around if they actually cared about the art,” said Heyward, “But it became quickly apparent that they had no respect for animation and were only working with us to undercut Disney, with whom they had a personal grudge or something.”

Andy Heyward and his wife Amy Moynihan Heyward took the money from their stock sales and founded their own production studio, which in a play on their last name became Wayward Entertainment. They poached several DIC employees and recruited some clever artists from universities. His wife also contacted Vanessa Coffey[3], an animation producer for Murkami-Wolf-Swenson and increasingly sick of doing stuff that was either based off of comic strips or used as a vessel to sell toys. The Heywards offered her the position of Chief Creative Officer in their production startup along with a share of the ownership, and promised her free creative reign. She accepted. She almost immediately quit when she was handed her first assignment: a series based on the Super Mario Brothers franchise.

“Another merch-driven show!” she lamented, in a later interview. “I was so angry with Andy and Amy. But they promised me that this was ‘one to pay the bills’ and that we’d go for something unique and original soon enough. And you know what? Mario was actually a lot of fun! The production team we assembled in partnership with Marvel [Productions] was great, the actors were a delight, and Nintendo’s executives were surprisingly enthusiastic about it.”

Production ran through early 1989, eventually debuting in the fall. The mix of live action and animation kept costs reasonable and production timing on track since the work could be done in tandem. The show was a slow sleeper hit. Though the acting was at first the subject of harsh criticism, the animated sequences found an audience, and let’s face it, the cheese of the live sequences was half the fun. Marvel brought in some great writers, and, at the insistence of Coffey, Princess Toadstool avoided getting typecast as an eternal damsel in distress for Mario and Luigi to perpetually rescue. By season four, even King Koopa learned to fear her wrath.

fc0b73286a157d2a41c8247745ca7ee29520031e694ed4bf0abc5e94053b07eb._V_SX1080_.jpg

(Image source Prime Video)

By season two, Lou Albano and Danny Wells settled into their roles as Mario and Luigi and loosened up. In season three, with rating sagging, they brought Jeannie Elias (in a red wig) into the live action sequences as Princess Toadstool, who soon became the subject of a million schoolboy crushes and reinvigorated viewership. The show would peter out after six seasons, but remained an indelible part of my generation’s childhood.

The show spawned spinoffs like the crazy-awesome King Koopa’s Krazy-Kool Kartoon Kountdown and the ill-fated Toad Time. The former was an insane live show with the great Christopher “Cobra Commander” Collins in a prosthetic suit, partnered with a Steve Witmer Muppet named Ratso. When Collins sadly passed away, Patrick Pinney took his place. The great prosthetics by the Creatureworks partnered with Witmer’s insanity as Ratso made the crazy blend of live hosted kid’s show and animated shorts work in ways that it shouldn’t have, and allowed Koopa to avoid becoming the Nightmare Juice that he very well might have become. It would pull off four successful seasons paired with Super Mario in a “Mario Hour” format.

8f6_9e17b652c4.jpg

“Renewed again?!? Shit. I’m calling my agent…” (Image source “retrojunk.com”)

As for the latter show, Toad Time…well, let’s just forget that ever happened, OK?

But Super Mario Brothers and Koopa were classics of their time. The two show’s successes would put the fledgling Wayward Entertainment on solid financial footing, setting up Wayward Entertainment for the successes that they found in the 1990s. For that reason alone, we should celebrate their existence.

So, all together now, let’s do the Mario!!

What…no takers? Don’t make me dance alone! I look like an idiot.



[1] Mario Hat tip to @TheMolluskLingers for this back-door pathway to the Koopa show he wanted!

[2] Ha! Math jokes! Suffer fools! PS: can I offer you a slice of Pi? Or would that be irrational of me?

[3] Luigi Hat Tip to @Damian0358 for alerting me to her. I bet you didn’t expect this!
 
As for the latter show, Toad Time…well, let’s just forget that ever happened, OK?
I now image John Stocker (Or whoever they got to potray Toad in either shows ITTL...) in Toad garb, complete with huge mushroom hat. Thanks for putting that in my image, Khan.

And while I'm at it:

and this too:
 
I wonder if, when Wayward gets into Anime dubbing, Hollywood Animation will do the same thing. I see them becoming much like the 4 kids of the dubbing world there, Disney as the Saban and Wayward as DiC. And who knows what will go to which? Maybe Wayward will end up adapting Pokemon and Disney Sailor Moon, leaving Hollywood Productions wide open to take Dragonball Z.
 
Luigi Hat Tip to @Damian0358 for alerting me to her. I bet you didn’t expect this!
Alright, you got me lad! I actually did not see this coming! Coffey remaining in Burbank (and not moving to NYC) should have some interesting implications, given she likely doesn't have the same resources she would've had at OTL Viacom!Nick, and may even be a bit more confined to the West Coast. That leaves the East Coast folks that only got involved in OTL!Nick in part thanks to Coffey in the fun position of uncertainty, especially Jim Jinkins and the folks brought on to help with Doug. Though I don't know what can be done for the latter explicitly, hopefully Jim manages to get Doug out as a book at least...
I wonder if, when Wayward gets into Anime dubbing, Hollywood Animation will do the same thing. I see them becoming much like the 4 kids of the dubbing world there... and Wayward as DiC. Maybe Wayward will end up adapting Pokemon...
Apparently, Leisure Concepts, Inc. (pre-4kids) had signed a marketing deal in late '87 with Nintendo of America; to quote their 1996 10-K: "Among the licensed properties represented exclusively by LCI are... Nintendo of America Inc. ("Nintendo"), for the various characters, trademarks, and copyrights arising out of the software for the video cartridge games developed and owned by Nintendo. LCI represents Nintendo on a worldwide basis, other than Japan. These video games ranked among the top toy sellers in the United States in 1993, 1994 and 1995," with mention elsewhere of it being dated to December 17th, 1987.

Wayward based on the West Coast and LCI based on the East Coast, both having deals with Nintendo (though the latter being more licensing-oriented, and in turn having more of 'em), sounds like something could work here (as long as it doesn't hamper the goal of original animation, 'course)!
 
Last edited:
I now image John Stocker (Or whoever they got to potray Toad in either shows ITTL...) in Toad garb, complete with huge mushroom hat. Thanks for putting that in my image, Khan.
You're welcome.
I see what you did there. Genuinely funny joke, well done.
Thank you.

I wonder if, when Wayward gets into Anime dubbing, Hollywood Animation will do the same thing. I see them becoming much like the 4 kids of the dubbing world there, Disney as the Saban and Wayward as DiC. And who knows what will go to which? Maybe Wayward will end up adapting Pokemon and Disney Sailor Moon, leaving Hollywood Productions wide open to take Dragonball Z.
Alright, you got me lad! I actually did not see this coming! Coffey remaining in Burbank (and not moving to NYC) should have some interesting implications, given she likely doesn't have the same resources she would've had at OTL Viacom!Nick, and may even be a bit more confined to the West Coast. That leaves the East Coast folks that only got involved in OTL!Nick in part thanks to Coffey in the fun position of uncertainty, especially Jim Jinkins and the folks brought on to help with Doug. Though I don't know what can be done for the latter explicitly, hopefully Jim manages to get Doug out as a book at least...

Apparently, Leisure Concepts, Inc. (pre-4kids) had signed a marketing deal in late '87 with Nintendo of America; to quote their 1996 10-K: "Among the licensed properties represented exclusively by LCI are... Nintendo of America Inc. ("Nintendo"), for the various characters, trademarks, and copyrights arising out of the software for the video cartridge games developed and owned by Nintendo. LCI represents Nintendo on a worldwide basis, other than Japan. These video games ranked among the top toy sellers in the United States in 1993, 1994 and 1995," with mention elsewhere of it being dated to December 17th, 1987.

Wayward based on the West Coast and LCI based on the East Coast, both having deals with Nintendo (though the latter being more licensing-oriented, and in turn having more of 'em), sounds like something could work here (as long as it doesn't hamper the goal of original animation, 'course)!
Actually have some guest posts upcoming on Anime dubbing and butterflies.

It would be absolutely transcendental :p
Don't be hyperbolic.
 
That reminds me. Where exactly is Hiam Saban now? Is he still with Disney? I forget. Either way, something tells me that he's close to going into the higher ranks of the company at some point, what with the success of the Bio-Force series. He has an eye for potential, even if his ideals don't always align with Jim's. :p
 
Maybe it and Captain N manage to postpone NBC's shift into teen sitcoms as their own Nintendo-based hour-long block?
Also, will the guys behind Captain N ITTL actually remember that Samus exists?

(Seriously, Google it; Jeffery Scott, the head writer for the show, never heard of her even though he has Mother Brain as one of the show’s antagonists.)
 
I'm surprised Nintendo went to Wayward instead to Disney Television for this, but it looks like it's a classic 90s cartoon. At least it didn't go to Hollywood Animation!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top