Didn't the Soviets initially want to use the name "Union of Soviet Sovereign Republics" to preserve the USSR/CCCP abbreviation?
A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
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I'm reminded of a few flag proposals, one for the Eurasian Union that a website proposed back in 2012, with accompanying .ZIP file containing an .EPS vector of the flag (the download of which seems to be dead, but I have the file still in my possession), and two for the Union of Russia and Belarus, as well as a few flags Marc Pasquin made a few years back.
Honestly, I don't necessarily disagree that the CIS flag isn't entirely the best fit for a country (most transnational organizational flags are like that, honestly), but it does work as a flag that is used at least for a time being (in the same way the OTL CIS had a flag that was just the initials for a time being). Maybe it's just the flag of the Sovereign Union for the 90s TTL?
maybe something like this combining the old USSR flag with the Union State flag
Well this deserves its own TL. You can't put a surviving Soviet Union in some way here and not have it merely be background stuff from now on.USSR Reorganized, Renamed in New Union Agreement
The Old Soviet System Officially Ended, replaced by the Union of Sovereign States
Some Former Soviet Republics Declare Independence
Washington Post, August 20th, 1991
Moscow – With the stroke of a pen, Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev and his colleagues in nine of the fifteen former Soviet Republics brought the official end to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The nine Republics and central Soviet government will instead reorganize into the federated Union of Sovereign States, or USS, with nine republican state governments and a Moscow-based federal government (the so-called “9+1”). The new states of Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan will retain a high level of regional economic, industrial, and cultural autonomy while remaining in monetary, customs, military, and diplomatic union at the federal level. The move will also see a reduction in the size of the Soviet military as well as giving the member states more say in military matters.
Red and Orange States represent USS Members; Black States are Independent (Image source Wikimedia)
Notably not present at the signing were the representatives of the former Soviet Republics of Armenia, Georgia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Moldova, all of whom have rejected the treaty and are demanding full independence. These states have petitioned for secession from the old USSR, and are likely to be granted independence per the stipulations of the treaty. The three “Baltic States” of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania remain a thorny issue, however, since they contain several economically important ports and the secession of Lithuania in particular would cut off land access between Russia and its Kaliningrad outlying territory. UN negotiators are working with all sides in an attempt to find a diplomatic solution to the “Baltic question”, with diplomatic think tanks expecting a workable solution to be accomplished within a few months.
Flag of the Union of Sovereign States (State Flags are per our timeline’s National Flags)
The status of several of the so-called Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republics (ASSRs) remain ambiguous as well, with many culturally unique regions like Chechnya and the Tatar ASSR seeking greater autonomy as full Sovereign States. Furthermore, the status of the strategically important Crimean ASSR, officially a part of the Ukrainian Sovereign State, is being carefully negotiated between Moscow and Kiev. Old land disputes between the states of Armenia and Azerbaijan are also becoming an issue with the former declaring its full independence and the latter remaining with the USS. Undoubtedly these thorny issues will require prolonged discussions in order to resolve, with the UN agreeing to help mediate the issues.
The USS signatories also signaled their intentions to further loosen economic and political power, with open democratic elections scheduled to begin by 1995 and liberal economic reforms and political liberties initiated under perestroika and glasnost expected to continue.
US President George Bush officially recognized the new USS and its component republics and recognized the independence of the six non-signatory republics, calling the arrangement “A good step towards a modern, democratic future for the former Soviet people.” The President also greeted news of the Soviet military drawdown as a “positive step towards reconciliation and world peace.” Cont’d on A2.
"FBI agents today raided The Second Mile.." - lets hope this is the start of a huge sexual predator investigation that goes big and wide...
"Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev launched a massive and sweeping wave of arrests...." - Go Gorby!
"The nine Republics and central Soviet government will instead reorganize into the federated Union of Sovereign States, or USS...." this is BIG. A much better end to USSR so far. A more orderly rearrangement of the USSR will not see so many people left on the wayside, so much military equipment abandoned, and hopefully no rise of oligarch's/mafia.
Wonder if they can do a EFTA and have a looser 'free trade' area with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania which would sort the Baltic port question, still have them politically independent, and allow access to Kaliningrad.
Adding ASSR's as States would certainly be the best outcome esp for Chechnya and Crimea.
I like the flag.
Very interesting and thought provoking update @Geekhis Khan
"Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev launched a massive and sweeping wave of arrests...." - Go Gorby!
"The nine Republics and central Soviet government will instead reorganize into the federated Union of Sovereign States, or USS...." this is BIG. A much better end to USSR so far. A more orderly rearrangement of the USSR will not see so many people left on the wayside, so much military equipment abandoned, and hopefully no rise of oligarch's/mafia.
Wonder if they can do a EFTA and have a looser 'free trade' area with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania which would sort the Baltic port question, still have them politically independent, and allow access to Kaliningrad.
Adding ASSR's as States would certainly be the best outcome esp for Chechnya and Crimea.
I like the flag.
Very interesting and thought provoking update @Geekhis Khan
But then why would they radically change the flag, away from the symbolism of the Soviet Union if it is not taboo?
If we are arguing that it is a transitional flag, why not just use the same Soviet Union flag or with some modifications?
On thing I have noticed despite high ranking KGB officials arrested along with high ranking Soviet military officials, the KGB wasn’t dismantled.
One thing I wonder if the ranks of Marshal of branch and Chief Marshal of Branch are dumped?
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
One thing I wonder if the ranks of Marshal of branch and Chief Marshal of Branch are dumped?
Marshal of the branch - Wikipedia
Chief marshal of the branch - Wikipedia
Gorby May visit Disneyworld, doing what Khrushchev couldn’t. Imagine the US President, Gorby, and Disney execs at Disneyworld?
Here's one likely butterfly effect from the Jerry Sandusky case: University of Michigan sports doctor Robert Anderson (who was exposed as a sexual predator after his death) gets exposed earlier and arrested, and, at Ohio State, an assistant wrestling coach named Jim Jordan is watching what is happening with Penn State--and makes the connection to Ohio State sports doctor Richard Strauss and his abuse, and, in TTL, he'll blow the whistle on Strauss (who will hopefully die in prison in TTL)...
Something I will say is I hope the west is more willing to help Russia with it’s economic issues and get them a good foot forward.
While I suspect there will a form of Russian mob but that can be dealt with by US help and training on how to fight organized crime.
It'll probably be still colloquially referred to as the USSR, but it'll be an abbreviation of "United Sovereign States of Russia" or somesuch.
The Second Mile collapsing far ahead of schedule is richly deserved and the immediate and swift determination to make things better and weed out these people is good. It makes me wonder how long it'll take until the animation has to deal with it's own reckoning on that front, especially with Krifacusi's rising star status.
The Soviet reorganization is certainly interesting. Not much else to say at present, but Gorbachov's certainly making big strides.
The Soviet reorganization is certainly interesting. Not much else to say at present, but Gorbachov's certainly making big strides.
OK I am too now. Let me know if you have any thoughts. It's probably not high on Jim's priorities, but I could see Roy or Ron being interested. Of course how do you follow up Murphy's own movie?
I'd honestly have watched and liked it too, even knowing it was Lost Cause BS. I grew up in the rural South and you took certain things for granted, at least until you did the actual research yourself.
Great point. Shame on me for missing the anniversary. Retconned to 1993.
You can 100% blame me for this one. The flag was the one proposed iOTL. The Soviet Flag and the Hammer and Sickle imagery is deliberately being discarded. The USS is NOT a Communist nation that's liberalizing like China, but a Federation of Republics that's putting its Communist past behind it.
Not planned that way, but it's a fun juxtaposition.
That name was considered.
No idea, and wasn't going to get into it.On thing I have noticed despite high ranking KGB officials arrested along with high ranking Soviet military officials, the KGB wasn’t dismantled.
One thing I wonder if the ranks of Marshal of branch and Chief Marshal of Branch are dumped?
Marshal of the branch - Wikipedia
Chief marshal of the branch - Wikipedia
Gorby May visit Disneyworld, doing what Khrushchev couldn’t. Imagine the US President, Gorby, and Disney execs at Disneyworld?
Just watch me.
Or are you proposing to write this?
Sounds good.
I think that is feasible, and would be a fantastic PR move on Gorbachev's part. Aside from the Magic Kingdom, EPCOT is naturally the best place that he could visit, and can bring him towards the Russia project that's being worked on by the I-Works.
Apparently they changed it to the USS (Union of Sovereign States) by the tail end of the plan according to Wikipedia, so it's clear that Gorbachev and others reformers want to abandon the Soviet term since they are no longer a single party state.
The Kazakhs, Ukrainians, Uzbeks, and etc. would never approve of that name. That implies Russian domination over the others, which would be intolerable to the republics that ascribe to autonomy in the Sovereign Union (great name btw).
Fair enough, but man that flag is still going to cause me nightmares 🤣
BTW, if Disney makes the Russia Pavilion, does it use the Sovereign Union flag or the Russian Republic flag? Maybe both?
Eh bigger thing in TL would be Gorby going to Disneyworld.
The Soviets had a history of weird military ranks.
Would Harvey Weinstein be investigated and arrested now that Sandusky has been arrested?
I like the flag
I mean it’s what Walt would have wanted in some regard and I think it shows the end of the Cold War, it could be used to get money for Russia from the west.
I like the name
If they make. USS pavilion imagine the performances?
No, sadly. My ability to write a full TL project is very small even thought being bogged down by other stuff online and off.Just watch me.
Or are you proposing to write this?
You do the Russian flag with a circle of nine yellow stars.
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