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Of course, you have to ask yourself if Extreme Ghostbusters should get the shaft in exchange for this series.
These need not be mutually exclusive.

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Interesting possibility for a living Freddie Mercury.
Yes, interesting is the word. Seems crazy, but then again you have Sir Brian May as a world renowned astrophysicist OTL, so why not? Certainly less crazy than some of the politicians we've had in the US. That said, probably not going there.

Considering that TSR created 2nd Ed. Dungeons & Dragons rules in 1989 an Gary Gygax created Dangerous Journeys in 1992 OTL any chance someone at either Marvel, Disney, or both putting pressure on Gygax to create new rules for Dungeons & Dragons (may something similar to Dangerous Journeys)?
Seems possible. Likely some sort of 3rd Ed. a lot sooner.

However, speaking as a Brit, part of me would really like to see Disney, what with Anglophile Henson, base more productions in the UK.
Yes, there will still be plenty of stuff shot in Pinewood and Elstree, fear not.

To anyone who says this is not a political timeline- you are in fact wrong. Just because this timeline is not about Presidents and elections directly with a more 'pop' focus. Disney is very political and politics plays a huge part in what they do, and what impact they have on the broadcasting, theme park, and Western cultural landscape.
There's the old saw that "everything is political." While not an overtly political TL I was never going to just ignore the politics. And the politics will affect the culture and vice versa.

Besides ACC, I wonder who got which refineries, stations, and . Selling off that much can't launch no butterflies. Same goes for the lobbying side. I wouldn't be surprised if down the line different official got elected because of it, and that really got the butterflies flapping.
I figure Bass Bros. got a few refineries and such at a good price. Gotta keep the shareholders happy. I'm sure that jpj will be keeping this all in mind on the politics side.

The Smithsonian mentions do intrigue me as I have a fascination with it lately. It makes me think we could get an earlier Smithsonian Channel done with Disney instead of Showtme and by extension ViacomCBS (which is unlikely to exist ITTL).
Interesting idea...

I wonder if Disney will eventually get permission to extend the monorail from their Anaheim park to Port Disney in Long Beach. That would probably be a multi-year long project I could see happening in the 2000s.
Might be a mite too impractical. Monorails,mwhile cool, aren’t exactly as good as regular light rail and trams.
Simply extending the existing monorail and making it bi-directional is going to be a pain.
Eh, that financially it will depend on whether they can get Anaheim and Long Beach on board. To do that, they’d probably have to full on have stops/regular transportation at places between Long Beach and Anaheim. Maybe two monorail tracks, one for public transportation and one between the two parks?

As for logistics, that’s more complicated, hence why I said this would probably be a multi-year project. Despite the fact Anaheim and Long Beach are basically right next to each other, it’d probably would take years to build the monorail tracks simply due to have to temporarily close streets for every level of track.

As for buses, it makes sense at first, but A) I doubt Disney wants to deal with their buses having to deal with LA traffic with no alternative, B) Long Beach is likely going to see a huge economic boost due to Port Disney which will increase traffic, and C) as more people go to Port Disney as time goes on, traffic will increase.

The buses are fine perhaps in the first few years, but eventually adding a monorail system will make a great deal of sense.
To be honest, this post still astonishes me at how Jim Henson and Frank Wells managed to get the approval of DisneySea, and all in a convincing manner. Anaheim must be simultaneously relieved and angry that they didn't get the second gate, with Long Beach getting the coveted park (now expanded into a separate resort!).
You've all also forgotten the biggest challenge of the monorail: cost. A Disney-style monorail, not counting the price of the easement rights or relocating obstacles or disruption to existing roads and structures, is about $50 million per mile today according to Yesterland. Accounting for inflation, the 30-35 mile monorail from Disneyland to Port Disney would cost around a billion dollars in the mid 1990s (puts pinkie in mouth) just for the time and materials to build it.

Yea, a short 2-5 mile spur might be an option. A 30-35 mile line through the middle of the established urban sprawl Greater LA not so much, unless the people of LA really, really want to reduce the Bus Traffic and are willing to pay much higher taxes, or if some serious lobbying for fed dollars pays off.

Also, I realise this probably butterflies Aquarium of the Pacific, on the site of the hotel.
It does, since DisneySea is essentially Aquarium of the Pacific with Oceana, being a far larger and more sophisticated counterpart to the aquarium.
I doubt we'll see something like AoTP in Long Beach due to the existence of Oceana essentially replacing it (there's no way it could compete with Disney on their turf anyways). Maybe a lot of employees from AoTP OTL end up working for Disney instead since Disney is motivated in turning it into a real working aquarium.
AotP is butterflied for sure, or relocated to, like Oxnard or somewhere farther to the north. Oceana will be AotP squared, and done with that "Disney Detail". And yea, all the people who worked for AotP OTL can certainly work for DisneySea.

The documentaries resulting from these (no doubt with a few in cooperation with National Geographic, cue the iconic anthem and yellow border) would definitely wind up on the family tv, even if we have to rent the videos from the library!
Roy Disney's ears are buzzing. May totally steal this idea.
 
It's certainly possible that Disney could do a lot more productions in the UK with Henson at the helm. Aside from the London Creatureworks, there's always potential Discworld adaptations as a TV show or a miniseries. However, there's one book that I'd like Disney to take a crack at, and a series that Henson actually worked on OTL, which was Gulliver's Travels. As much as I think it would be a pure live-action, imagine if it became a Muppets series or film?

Is it Harry Potter? Because, no offence meant, you've gone on about it multiple times.

Yes, interesting is the word. Seems crazy, but then again you have Sir Brian May as a world renowned astrophysicist OTL, so why not? Certainly less crazy than some of the politicians we've had in the US. That said, probably not going there.

Also, it's going to be hard to butterfly Mercury's death - it's not exactly as if he died in some accident or something. Also, it's probably too late for Mercury - it's generally believed he was first diagnosed in the late 1980s and it's possible that he might have had HIV-like symptoms as early as 1982. So, I would say, alas, he's doomed. (Mercury kept his diagnosis secret until 1991, wanting to protect those closest to him, but Brian May has confirmed that the band and Mercury's inner circle were informed much earlier).

And, speaking as a Brit, @Geekhis Khan, if you think American politics are crazy, I must tell you that our current PM is a former political columnist noted for saying outrageous things who got famous by appearing on a comedy panel show and who wrote a (hilariously awful) novel called Seventy-Two Virgins: A Comedy of Errors which has some of the most ludicrous writing you have ever read.

Basically, if Freddie Mercury were alive, I can honestly believe we would have voted him as Prime Minister.
 
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Also, it's going to be hard to butterfly Mercury's death - it's not exactly as if he died in some accident or something. Also, it's probably too late for Mercury - it's generally believed he was first diagnosed in the late 1980s and it's possible that he might have had HIV-like symptoms as early as 1982. So, I would say, alas, he's doomed. (Mercury kept his diagnosis secret until 1991, wanting to protect those closest to him, but Brian May has confirmed that the band and Mercury's inner circle were informed much earlier).

However, speaking as a Brit, our current PM is a former political columnist who got famous by appearing on a panel show and who wrote a (hilariously awful) novel called Seventy-Two Virgins: A Comedy of Errors. If Freddie Mercury were alive, I can honestly believe we would have voted him as Prime Minister.
I actually disagree.

Freddie needs a strong stable partner in his life much earlier, and not to have fallen under the sway of Paul Pender. This is very doable. In 1982 he had a HIV test that was negative, the fact he was concerned enough to get checked suggests he took the whole thing seriously. So extend that. Instead of just falling back into the arms of whomever, Freddie, (perhaps at Mary Austin's suggestion) gets his closest partners checked. Some of them turn out positive like Paul Penter, and Freddie comes to he realisation he has to stop the casual contacts- not necessarily the parties, just the casual sex n drugs. By 1985 he is with Jim Hutton "his husband" and keeping the love inside the relationship. Neither of them has AIDS.

Though I agree about voting for him- Freddie for PM!
 
Freddie needs a strong stable partner in his life much earlier, and not to have fallen under the sway of Paul Pender. This is very doable. In 1982 he had a HIV test that was negative, the fact he was concerned enough to get checked suggests he took the whole thing seriously. So extend that. Instead of just falling back into the arms of whomever, Freddie, (perhaps at Mary Austin's suggestion) gets his closest partners checked. Some of them turn out positive like Paul Penter, and Freddie comes to he realisation he has to stop the casual contacts- not necessarily the parties, just the casual sex n drugs. By 1985 he is with Jim Hutton "his husband" and keeping the love inside the relationship. Neither of them has AIDS.

According to Jim Hutton, Mercury was diagnosed with AIDS in 1987 - which seems to fit his increasingly gaunt appearance in the following years. Brian May has stated that he kept his diagnosis hidden for several years before revealing it publicly - the band and those closest to Freddie were secretly informed several years before. We're in 1990 here - I think we're past the point we could have saved him. Hypothetically, somebody could convince him to seek medication earlier so he could slow the decline, but I think he would have died eventually.

Although, yes, he would be an insane PM.
 
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You've all also forgotten the biggest challenge of the monorail: cost. A Disney-style monorail, not counting the price of the easement rights or relocating obstacles or disruption to existing roads and structures, is about $50 million per mile today according to Yesterland. Accounting for inflation, the 30-35 mile monorail from Disneyland to Port Disney would cost around a billion dollars in the mid 1990s (puts pinkie in mouth) just for the time and materials to build it.

Yea, a short 2-5 mile spur might be an option. A 30-35 mile line through the middle of the established urban sprawl Greater LA not so much, unless the people of LA really, really want to reduce the Bus Traffic and are willing to pay much higher taxes, or if some serious lobbying for fed dollars pays off.
Not that much higher taxes...remember, at this time they were deep in the throes of building the B/Red and D/Purple lines, not to mention the C/Green line and the (slightly earlier) A/Blue line. All of those cost around $1 billion, in the case of the B/D lines rather more. There was definitely a pretty strong effort going on to expand transit in the Los Angeles area at the time, and this could easily hook into that. But for that reason Disney's role would probably be to lobby to have a conventional light rail or subway (most likely light rail) link to Disneyland, not to extend their monorail system from Anaheim to Long Beach. Think something more like extending the Green line eastwards to Anaheim and maybe actually building the LAX connector (if anyone can out-lobby taxi companies and local residents, it's probably Disney).
 
According to Jim Hutton, Mercury was diagnosed with AIDS in 1987 - which seems to fit his increasingly gaunt appearance in the following years. Brian May has stated that he kept his diagnosis hidden for several years before revealing it publicly - the band and those closest to Freddie were secretly informed several years before. We're in 1990 here - I think we're past the point we could have saved him. Hypothetically, somebody could convince him to seek medication earlier so he could slow the decline, but I think he would have died eventually.

Although, yes, he would be an insane PM.
Freddie was already saved. His Negative test in 1985 was changed into a False Positive, which scared him “straight”, though he was anything but. He contributed to ”The Song of Susan”, and lamented how Howard got it while being faithful, yet he dodged the bullet sleeping around.
 
Freddie was already saved. His Negative test in 1985 was changed into a False Positive, which scared him “straight”, though he was anything but. He contributed to ”The Song of Susan”, and lamented how Howard got it while being faithful, yet he dodged the bullet sleeping around.
When was this? I don't recall it being mentioned...

EDIT: Sorry, it was in the April 1st post (funnily enough) - I have a memory like a sieve.
 
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Is it Harry Potter? Because, no offence meant, you've gone on about it multiple times.
If you reread the post, then it's painfully clear that I was not talking about HP (in fact I was actively trying to avoid talking about it in that response since it is still suspect to being butterflied and yes, I did talk about it previously).

Surprised that you took a post that was centered around the possibility of Henson doing a Muppets Gulliver's Travels and completely ignored that in favor of that accusation. :noexpression:

Yea, a short 2-5 mile spur might be an option. A 30-35 mile line through the middle of the established urban sprawl Greater LA not so much, unless the people of LA really, really want to reduce the Bus Traffic and are willing to pay much higher taxes, or if some serious lobbying for fed dollars pays off.
It's certainly possible that we could get a direct Anaheim to Long Beach route via the Metrolink by the mid to late 90s since it's about to be created in 1991 and opened in 1992 OTL. The demand for such a route would certainly be there thanks to cast members, workers, and visitors coming from Disneyland and the Anaheim area. Heck, maybe the American govt and/or Disney could help subsidize for the creation of the route.


AotP is butterflied for sure, or relocated to, like Oxnard or somewhere farther to the north. Oceana will be AotP squared, and done with that "Disney Detail". And yea, all the people who worked for AotP OTL can certainly work for DisneySea.
Fair enough, and I'm certainly excited about the opening of Oceana since I do appreciate the Aquarium of the Pacific being there for Long Beach (I might've visited the place once but I'm not completely sure).

Long Beach locals ITTL must surely be proud about them having a state of the art aquarium and a theme park right in their beachfront.
 
If you reread the post, then it's painfully clear that I was not talking about HP (in fact I was actively trying to avoid talking about it in that response since it is still suspect to being butterflied and because yes, I did talk about it previously).

Surprised that you took a post that was centered around the possibility of Henson doing a Muppets Gulliver's Travels and completely ignored that in favor of that accusation. :noexpression:

I am deeply sorry if I ended up causing you any offence by my earlier statement, @Denliner - I must have misread the post.

Having said that, I agree a Muppets Gulliver's Travels sounds like an awesome idea - if it comes after Muppet Treasure Island, it forms an interesting little trilogy with it and Muppet Christmas Carol, being based on a famous piece of 19th century literature. Call it something like the Muppets Great Literature Trilogy and we end up with the notion of a whole generation of kids only being familiar with any of those classic stories through the Muppets.

Anyway, changing the subject, @Geekhis Khan, here's an interesting idea re; DisneySea (which I assume is also an aquarium) - Henson (or whoever's in charge of that sort of thing) comes forward and states that no cetaceans (orcas or dolphins) will be kept at DisneySea, citing animal welfare concerns.

Speaking as somebody who, based on a lot of research, has come to the conclusion that cetaceans' unique biological and behavioural needs can't be met in a captive environment, it would be interesting to see if a company as big as Disney saying "we won't keep cetaceans at any of our facilities" has any effect....
 
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It's certainly possible that we could get a direct Anaheim to Long Beach route via the Metrolink by the mid to late 90s since it's about to be created in 1991 and opened in 1992 OTL. The demand for such a route would certainly be there thanks to cast members, workers, and visitors coming from Disneyland and the Anaheim area. Heck, maybe the American govt and/or Disney could help subsidize for the creation of the route.
The problem with extending Metrolink to Long Beach is that you either need to spend a lot of money on building new mainline trackage there (especially since the Blue Line just occupied the old Pacific Electric right-of-way) or run over very busy freight lines, neither of which is particularly feasible. It would make more sense to connect Metrolink to Anaheim and extend the Blue Line to Union Station, since that already (more or less) reaches the DisneySea area. A short Blue Line spur (perhaps street-running) to DisneySea would be a lot easier to arrange than wholly reworking large portions of the urban fabric...

(Or building a people mover, or running express busses from the Blue Line stop to DisneySea...lots of options here)
 
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The documentaries resulting from these (no doubt with a few in cooperation with National Geographic, cue the iconic anthem and yellow border) would definitely wind up on the family tv, even if we have to rent the videos from the library!
Roy Disney's ears are buzzing. May totally steal this idea.
I can see it now: Repairing Giants, narrated by Al Pacino.
Yes, interesting is the word. Seems crazy, but then again you have Sir Brian May as a world renowned astrophysicist OTL, so why not? Certainly less crazy than some of the politicians we've had in the US. That said, probably not going there.
TBH, I don't think its too likely for the TL, though survival for Freddie alone is.
I figure Bass Bros. got a few refineries and such at a good price. Gotta keep the shareholders happy. I'm sure that jpj will be keeping this all in mind on the politics side.
Thanks.
AotP is butterflied for sure, or relocated to, like Oxnard or somewhere farther to the north. Oceana will be AotP squared, and done with that "Disney Detail". And yea, all the people who worked for AotP OTL can certainly work for DisneySea.
I just hope both can co exist.

A Muppet Gulliver Travels sounds awesome, especially if they go full on with the satirical elements so missing from most modern adaptations. For the lilliputian scenes, how about the crew uses tiny stop motion dolls for them, and invert the process for the giants' land?
Anyway, changing the subject, @Geekhis Khan, here's an interesting idea re; DisneySea (which I assume is also an aquarium) - Henson (or whoever's in charge of that sort of thing) comes forward and states that no cetaceans (orcas or dolphins) will be kept at DisneySea, citing animal welfare concerns.

Speaking as somebody who, based on a lot of research, has come to the conclusion that cetaceans' unique biological and behavioural needs can't be met in a captive environment, it would be interesting to see if a company as big as Disney saying "we won't keep cetaceans at any of our facilities" has any effect....
Would be interesting (my opinion meanwhile, boils down to "Nothing bigger then certain dolphins, and in very big tanks"). Although my first thought is that "this is a good way for Disney and Seaworld to avoid competition".
 
I am deeply sorry if I ended up causing you any offence by my earlier statement, @Denliner - I must have misread the post.
Apology accepted.

Having said that, I agree a Muppets Gulliver's Travels sounds like an awesome idea - if it comes after Muppet Treasure Island, it forms an interesting little trilogy with it and Muppet Christmas Carol, being based on a famous piece of 19th century literature. Call it something like the Muppets Great Literature Trilogy and we end up with the notion of a whole generation of kids only being familiar with any of those classic stories through the Muppets.
Fantastic idea, perhaps even Disney could market a VHS/VCD set with all three of them by the late 90s or the 2000s (and I'm sure that they will do their best to milk this as much as possible). I also agree on a Muppets Gulliver's Travels appearing later than Treasure Island since Christmas Carol is likely to turn up in 1992.

Speaking as somebody who, based on a lot of research, has come to the conclusion that cetaceans' unique biological and behavioural needs can't be met in a captive environment, it would be interesting to see if a company as big as Disney saying "we won't keep cetaceans at any of our facilities" has any effect....
*looks at SeaWorld*

Honestly, it's very possible that Disney might not even keep cetaceans at the beginning, or at least not large species like orcas or sperm whales for DisneySea, since even Oceana is not suitable for them in a captive environment, and they sure as hell are not using them for entertainment acts like SeaWorld usually does.

Dolphins are a much more murky subject since I think DisneySea could harbor dolphins like bottlenose dolphins at first, if only for research, but increasing pressure from animal rights groups might force them to release them towards the wild or in sanctuaries.

If they don't keep cetaceans in captivity overall by the opening of DisneySea, then it's likely Disney would be a strong supporter of banning whales/dolphins from being in captivity overall in California. Not just because Henson and the other members of the Quadrumvirate are supportive of such an act for animal welfare but also because this is an obvious strike in the juggular against their competitor in SeaWorld, since they do rely on cetaceans for their live performances, especially orcas.

I just hope both can co exist.
Oxnard doesn't sound like a bad location for an alt AoTP, so that has my support.

Would be interesting (my opinion meanwhile, boils down to "Nothing bigger then certain dolphins, and in very big tanks"). Although my first thought is that "this is a good way for Disney and Seaworld to avoid competition".
DisneySea is still competition to SeaWorld regardless because of its existence as a maritime park (and because it is Disney), which does pose an interesting quandary for SeaWorld: do they go all in towards live performances to attract visitors or do they go in the opposite direction and emulate Disney?

I already posted my thoughts of what would happen if SeaWorld did the former, which is the most likely decision they will go in the face of a juggernaut like DisneySea, IMO.
 
I also agree on a Muppets Gulliver's Travels appearing later than Treasure Island since Christmas Carol is likely to turn up in 1992.
MCC is going to look a lot different, not the least being that Jim is still alive, so some of the poignancy of it may not happen.
*looks at SeaWorld*

Honestly, it's very possible that Disney might not even keep cetaceans at the beginning, or at least not large species like orcas or sperm whales for DisneySea, since even Oceana is not suitable for them in a captive environment, and they sure as hell are not using them for entertainment acts like SeaWorld usually does.

Dolphins are a much more murky subject since I think DisneySea could harbor dolphins like bottlenose dolphins at first, if only for research, but increasing pressure from animal rights groups might force them to release them towards the wild or in sanctuaries.

If they don't keep cetaceans in captivity overall by the opening of DisneySea, then it's likely Disney would be a strong supporter of banning whales/dolphins from being in captivity overall in California. Not just because Henson and the other members of the Quadrumvirate are supportive of such an act for animal welfare but also because this is an obvious strike in the juggular against their competitor in SeaWorld, since they do rely on cetaceans for their live performances, especially orcas.
DisneySea is still competition to SeaWorld regardless because of its existence as a maritime park (and because it is Disney), which does pose an interesting quandary for SeaWorld: do they go all in towards live performances to attract visitors or do they go in the opposite direction and emulate Disney?
Maybe something like Blue World happens earlier?
 
Maybe something like Blue World happens earlier?
I mean...it's possible that SeaWorld could do it under pressure from the general public, but I don't think they will since:
A) The Coastal Commission might just ask them to end the Orca program by banning the breeding of new orcas as stated by the Defunctland video, making the project a bit redundant.
B) Disney is possibly gunning for a complete ban of whale/dolphin captivity (if they aren't housing them).

I honestly think an ITTL Blackfish is likelier to arise earlier than a Blue World, which is kinda sad, but one that could cetacean captivity altogether in California with support from politicians and Disney.
 
Roy Disney's ears are buzzing. May totally steal this idea.
If you do please have PBS involved so we can get the documentary on PBS.
I agree a Muppets Gulliver's Travels sounds like an awesome idea - if it comes after Muppet Treasure Island, it forms an interesting little trilogy with it and Muppet Christmas Carol, being based on a famous piece of 19th century literature.
I don't know how long it takes to film a Muppets movie but I wonder if it's possible to place it in between Christmas Carol and Treasure Island?
I can see it now: Repairing Giants, narrated by Al Pacino.
First I'd do it as two separate documentaries and second if we do get the Rocketeer ITTL than I could/would see Terry O'Quinn (or whoever is cast as Howard Hughes) narrating the one for the Spruce Goose.
 
The local political issues of a monorail is it costs more than a regular train, Orange County board of Supervisors and the Governor of California were republicans at the time. From 1987 to 2004 OTL there were no Democrats on the county board. While local cities would decide county board would decide too.

Now you could butterfly Pete Wilson’s election win in 1990 we’d get Governor Diane Feinstein. But that is probably to late to butterfly.

Most likely though it is gonna be hard to get a Metrolink line there so they’d go with buses as they’re cheaper.
 
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Speaking as somebody who, based on a lot of research, has come to the conclusion that cetaceans' unique biological and behavioural needs can't be met in a captive environment, it would be interesting to see if a company as big as Disney saying "we won't keep cetaceans at any of our facilities" has any effect....

Cetaceans in need of rehabilitation and therapy would probably be fair game, though. Quite a few zoos have adopted similar policies AFAIK.
 
There's the chance of a public-private partnership; if Disney chips in 50% - and isn't cheap about it like most P3s - then an elevated line from Fullerton to Queensway is theoretically only ~$630 mil for California.
Cetaceans in need of rehabilitation and therapy would probably be fair game, though. Quite a few zoos have adopted similar policies AFAIK.
This. If the animal can't be reintroduced to the wild, the options are to either put them down or have them live out their remaining life in captivity. In this case, it may not be much harder to build larger tanks, and with access to the bay (so the whale/dolphin in question can go "outside" once in a while).
 
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I remember watching a documentary about people working on developing animatronic dolphin substitutes. Maybe TTL’s Disney could be leading the way to making real dolphins at aquariums obsolete.
 
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