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Well, I believe that means that Disney is making a profit off of Fantasia, at least in the here-and-now. After all, it's already been paid for...every further screening is money in the pocket for this year that has very low costs associated with it (this year, at least).
That's still 2 charity films in such a short timeframe though, and regardless of whether it's part of MGM/Fantasia/Hyperion or WDSS, I'm not sure how Jim or Frank would be able to convince the shareholders to accept another charity film without good reason. I just believe it's harder to do that in the early 90s than the 2000s when they would've forgot about their initial grievances under a mountain of money and the WDSS has been fully vindicated as a money making machine.
You're forgetting the profits from VHS and VCD sales.
If we’re bringing up current events in conjunction with artsy media, I gotta know what Jim would think of Berserk…
Depends on how much he would tolerate the overall story of Berserk and the depths that it has gone through, because I heard it does go into some really dark stuff, especially during the Eclipse and its aftermath.
I don't know about Berserk but I think/hope the fifth film in the WED Signature Series will be Tale of Sand.
Makes me think that a future disaster film for Jim could be a film that is either too conceptual or an intellectual property/mythology that is extremely hard to adapt.
Tale of Sand?
 
I don't know about Berserk but I think/hope the fifth film in the WED Signature Series will be Tale of Sand.
Looking at the style of the graphic novel, I would much prefer if Tale of Sand was part of WDSS since animation does carry over the surrealism much more faithfully than live action, but it might not be the case for the film ITTL.

Tale of Sand?
I hope not. I was thinking of something along the lines of Moki (if a similar film gets made) or a mythology that's too huge to adapt like the Ramayana.
 
Looking at the style of the graphic novel, I would much prefer if Tale of Sand was part of WDSS since animation does carry over the surrealism much more faithfully than live action, but it might not be the case for the film ITTL.
I thought the same thing and thought that Disney should collaborate with Ralph Bakshi.
 

PNWKing

Banned
I wonder if Henson!Disney would be interested in the Earthsea series of novels. The first one was written in 1968, so it is pre-POD. Especially if a certain Brit still goes flat-hunting close to where we are ITTL, and still writes a similar book series as she did IOTL.
 
Well, I believe that means that Disney is making a profit off of Fantasia, at least in the here-and-now. After all, it's already been paid for...every further screening is money in the pocket for this year that has very low costs associated with it (this year, at least).
It is, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t an abject failure back in the 1940s (not without reason given… well, you know what) which stalled and stifled the growth of the animation industry for decades. Though it is indeed in a far better position now with the establishment of the Signature Series.
I stand corrected on that. My bad.

That's still 2 charity films in such a short timeframe though, and regardless of whether it's part of MGM/Fantasia/Hyperion or WDSS, I'm not sure how Jim or Frank would be able to convince the shareholders to accept another charity film without good reason. I just believe it's harder to do that in the early 90s than the 2000s when they would've forgot about their initial grievances under a mountain of money and the WDSS has been fully vindicated as a money making machine.
I agree with this.
Depends on how much he would tolerate the overall story of Berserk and the depths that it has gone through, because I heard it does go into some really dark stuff, especially during the Eclipse and its aftermath.

Maybe he would appreciate the work of Junji Ito more than Miura, but that's just my opinion.
I would not have even thought to mention Berserk if the death of Kentaro Miura (at the oh-so-ripe age of 54) last month, leaving it incomplete, didn’t make me ponder how being exposed to it would shake Jim to his core. It’s a story that both delves into humanity at its most loathsome and despicable, yet also about our capacity and potential for goodness and decency no matter what we’ve been through or done ourselves. It’s about finding hope in the most hopeless situations, and clinging to the glimmer of a chance we can make a meaningful difference both for ourselves and the world as a whole… It’s also existentially confronting and pulls zero punches when it comes to evil, both within and without, even during the “Golden Age” arc (to the point Miura himself understood the aversion many people have had in touching it, for all that he usually tried to NOT be gratuitous with the violence and give it narrative weight at all times).

I won’t harp on this any further, though I will say that if Jim had the courage to go any ways into the series he would be affected, though hopefully inspired at least in terms of what stories he could tell. Adapt/distribute it though? Ahahahahaaa… nope. No way Disney under ANY label could get away with it, it would make Maus look like a bundle of jollyness and fun times!

I’m not into Junji Ito (less than Miura, whose works I’ve yet to delve into), but from what I know… he just might like it. We know from The Dark Crystal and (ITTL) The Black Cauldron that Jim isn’t reluctant to scare his audiences, even if they (used to) think otherwise, so he’d definitely be intrigued by Ito’s work.
Makes me think that a future disaster film for Jim could be a film that is either too conceptual or an intellectual property/mythology that is extremely hard to adapt.
Only the Khan (and perhaps his closest confidants) know for sure.
I think he should start small, maybe as the mayor as Burbank, but probably sometime after 1992 Presidential elections.
Yeah, maybe. It may be too late to really impact the Presidential election of 1992, but if Planet America (an Australian news program about US politics, which deep-dives into historical precedent and how things can turn around like mad) has taught me anything, it’s that anything can happen.
I thought the same thing and thought that Disney should collaborate with Ralph Bakshi.
Aren’t they going to already? Or did I misremember something…? Granted, if Bakshi and Krisfalusi’s more insidious characteristics come to light before they DO such a project, I don’t see anyone who puts morality over art condoning such a collab. (and it may look Harsher in Hindsight if they’ve already done so when it comes out).
 
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I won’t harp on this any further, though I will say that if Jim had the courage to go any ways into the series he would be affected, though hopefully inspired at least in terms of what stories he could tell. Adapt/distribute it though? Ahahahahaaa… nope. No way Disney under ANY label could get away with it, it would make Maus look like a bundle of jollyness and fun times!
Yeah, I doubt Disney would commission an adaptation/dub of Berserk, not like Jim or anyone else are compelled to anyways. Leave it to a willing Japanese studio to do Berserk justice, but there's a possibility that butterflies could break the curse and make a decent Berserk adaptation.

I’m not into Junji Ito (less than Miura, whose works I’ve yet to delve into), but from what I know… he just might like it. We know from The Dark Crystal and (ITTL) The Black Cauldron that Jim isn’t reluctant to scare his audiences, even if they (used to) think otherwise, so he’d definitely be intrigued by Ito’s work.
With the WDSS, it does allow more mature forms of horror to be distributed without damaging the brand, so there's a faint possibility that they could adapt Junji Ito's work, assuming Jim is fascinated by the surreal and twisted stories that Ito brings to the table like Uzumaki.
 
With the WDSS, it does allow more mature forms of horror to be distributed without damaging the brand, so there's a faint possibility that they could adapt Junji Ito's work, assuming Jim is fascinated by the surreal and twisted stories that Ito brings to the table like Uzumaki.
I don't think so, a quick search of his work makes me think that this would be too much for Disney even ITTL. There's a difference between a scare like Dark Crystal & Black Cauldron and straight up horror. Remember even if WED Signature Series is for more mature audiences stupid parents may buy they for their children and a horror film from Disney (by name) will cause a major firestorm.
 
Yeah, I doubt Disney would commission an adaptation/dub of Berserk, not like Jim or anyone else are compelled to anyways. Leave it to a willing Japanese studio to do Berserk justice, but there's a possibility that butterflies could break the curse and make a decent Berserk adaptation.
Just so. Even if I wanted the most benevolent WD in all the multiverse to own all the things, this is one particular manga/anime that would be better in native Japanese hands (there are things they could adapt well, up to and including into LIVE ACTION FILMS, but this ain’t one of ‘em Chief).

We can never be sure how a person takes products they never consumed (as I doubt OTL!Jim had time to notice an obscure manga that only started publication the year before he suddenly died), and can only speculate based on our best research, but I’ll say this: if Jim could stomach Berserk, he’d hopefully come out of the experience even more inspired creatively, and all the stronger for it; hell, I could see him and Kentaro Miura becoming friendly acquaintances (if not chums) should they ever actually meet… Actually now that I think about it, with The Dark Crystal being so popular in Japan AND Miura having been a teenager when it first released, I would NOT be surprised if he had it in the dark recesses of his mind when he conceived Berserk, even IOTL, and could well admire Henson (not that we could ever be sure unless there’s record of him talking about it, granted).

Also, I will attest that the OTL 1997 Berserk anime is, if not totally loyal to the source material (or even the significant chunk of story it tackled) a devoted adaptation in spirit… Don’t look at me like that; if people want to tell me The Neverending Story was a loyal adaptation to even the first half of the novel (it ISN’T, they undid the deaths that even the book depicted AND they missed the thematic point of a lot of memorable parts of the book, stop saying it’s understanding the more deconstructive threads you bloody twats!) and that I’m wring to see it as not spiritually faithful, then I’m within my right to say the same thing about the first Berserk anime…

[NB: If it’s not clear yet, The Neverending Story is one of my favourite novels of all time; as far as single volume works go, it ties at the top with Watership Down and no other. I first read both in my mid-teens, along with The Chronicles of Prydain (and too many other books that I don’t recall all the names of), and they left a deeply-felt impact on me like few books could, mainstream or otherwise. So, while I was impressed that Disney adapted the second half of TNS without needing to recast ITTL, the fact it was in essence the same story left me feeling quite apathetic to it in all honesty… I’ll concede that I also read the book first (though after watching the animated series from the mid-90s as a younger child) so I’m not unbiased, but to say I was ultimately underwhelmed by this “classic 80s fantasy film” is… well, it’s like saying that acid burns hurt. Yeah, that sounds about right…]]

But, I digress. Though I can’t see butterflies changing Miura’s creative process (unless they’ve already altered it beyond recognition, and even then…), maybe an even better adaptation could emerge ITTL. This is definitely too far into the future to be sure it will even come up (and I’ve derailed the thread more than I’m comfortable already; if you wanna go further on it we should take it elsewhere for the nonce).
With the WDSS, it does allow more mature forms of horror to be distributed without damaging the brand, so there's a faint possibility that they could adapt Junji Ito's work, assuming Jim is fascinated by the surreal and twisted stories that Ito brings to the table like Uzumaki.
Certainly true, although given my own personal disinterest I can’t say any further on that.
I don't think so, a quick search of his work makes me think that this would be too much for Disney even ITTL. There's a difference between a scare like Dark Crystal & Black Cauldron and straight up horror. Remember even if WED Signature Series is for more mature audiences stupid parents may buy they for their children and a horror film from Disney (by name) will cause a major firestorm.
Perhaps if Jim chooses to go independent again it could happen; otherwise, you may be right that it’s too unlikely.
 
Agreed. WDSS should stick with the "shut up and give me the Oscar" highbrow niche; there's some overlap with the late night adults-only niche, but not much.
 
I don't think so, a quick search of his work makes me think that this would be too much for Disney even ITTL. There's a difference between a scare like Dark Crystal & Black Cauldron and straight up horror. Remember even if WED Signature Series is for more mature audiences stupid parents may buy they for their children and a horror film from Disney (by name) will cause a major firestorm.
But the WDSS has already tackled films with visceral imagery like Maus and Grave of the Fireflies, so the brand has already established itself as a place where very raw content could be shown. If it was just Fantasia/Musicana then I might've agreed with you but the precedent does allow for horror and other genres to potentially flourish within the label, imo.

Plus, wouldn't something like Uzumaki have an R-rated label on it? At that point, parents should know better if two labels (WDSS/R) are basically screaming at them not to buy this for their kids.
 
But the WDSS has already tackled films with visceral imagery like Maus and Grave of the Fireflies, so the brand has already established itself as a place where very raw content could be shown. If it was just Fantasia/Musicana then I might've agreed with you but the precedent does allow for horror and other genres to potentially flourish within the label, imo.

Plus, wouldn't something like Uzumaki have an R-rated label on it? At that point, parents should know better if two labels (WDSS/R) are basically screaming at them not to buy this for their kids.
You put a little too much faith in the collective of human commonsense, I feel. And I’m generally an optimist pertaining to our potential for betterment…
 

Do you think maybe the butterflies would effect Chuck E. and Billy Bob's rivalry?
LOL yea I remember that big rivalry. I hadn't planned on looking too much into it, but I'll check it out.

Ogrebear said:
How is being part of Disney effecting Apple during this period please @Geekhis Khan as I recall OTL they where in a bit of a mess?

To be clear, Apple isn't "part of Disney", technically a small part of Disney (via stock) is part of Apple, but they have partnered with Disney's Imagination, Inc., the audio/video computer company behind the Imagination Stations and CHERNABOG, as had rival Commodore. At the moment it's an awkward partnership since Steve Jobs is on the Imagine board as is Leo Tramiel, son of Commodore's CEO. Apple is per OTL struggling to define itself with Woz still on board for the Apple II line but with management phasing it out in favor of the Mac line. More on that coming soon.

Well Congratz to Mr Stanley Kinsey should be interesting to read what he brings to the Board.

Those financial figures are amazing - how can shareholders bemoan 2 charity movies with numbers like that! Esp when one was an unexpected hit!
What an unexpected development. I thought Frank Wells was gonna stay as COO for a while longer, but perhaps this moves frees him up for future endeavors in American politics. Let's hope that Stan Kinsey is just as capable as Frank in the role.


To the shareholders, Disney and its shares would have grown even further had they not have splurged the money on causes that some might not even have approved of. It's undeniably a stab in the back in their eyes.

Not gonna lie, I don't see much of a future in WDSS unless they can pacify the shareholders with another movie that does result in some major profits for the company. Luckily, their four films have probably garnered them enough credibility and reputation for the WDSS to be a respected label for future adaptations.
Well, remember that the biggest shareholder of Disney is...Jim Henson (he owns about 20% of the company, per the data just provided). The Disney family (collectively) has a bit more; I think between them Henson and the Disneys own just under half of the company. So while the other shareholders might moan and complain they probably don't have the power to make Disney stop doing WDSS movies unless the Henson-Disney axis breaks down. That being said, of course Henson et. al. don't particularly want to fight with the other shareholders, so probably they won't make future WDSS releases (or at least the next one or two releases) charity events. But I think there's a degree of misunderstanding of the actual ownership structure of Disney in this thread, as well as a misunderstanding of just how intertwined management and the majority owners actually are.
Wells has been grooming Kinsey for a while, with COO duties specifically in mind, handling the day-to-day operations and keeping the "ship" sailing. This lets Wells concentrate on his role as Chairman and President. It notably also puts another loyalist on the Board and gives inside directors a one-vote advantage.

As to the discussions on greedy shareholders, well, as Den mentioned, as Shareholders they're more interested, generally speaking, with the stock price than the raw income. A share of the income will come to them as Dividends, of course, but the Capital Gains to be made from growing stock prices will be a larger part of their wealth and they will even pay far fewer taxes on it due to how tax laws are written. Or that's how I understand it (not an economist). As such, the rather high profile "passion projects and charity films" have reduced quarterly returns from their peak in the late '80s and spooked investors (and thus repressed stock prices) because they call into question whether the leadership of the studio has the best interests of investors at heart, which as @El Pip mentioned earlier is arguably their job as a public company. So the investors aren't wrong in demanding answers.

The counterargument is, of course, that they are growing and improving the brand, thereby leading to improved future performance. Most of the outside investors are in line with this and are being patient, but patience doesn't last forever.

And to be clear, at the moment it's a small group of shareholders led by a day trader and arb whom I chose not to name. But the noise is making some of the other investors nervous. A good blockbuster success should help calm the nerves of most shareholders, but a major flop could be really bad right now.
 
And to be clear, at the moment it's a small group of shareholders led by a day trader and arb whom I chose not to name. But the noise is making some of the other investors nervous. A good blockbuster success should help calm the nerves of most shareholders, but a major flop could be really bad right now.
... ... ...hmmmm...
Of course, sometimes, you flop. Jim, for example, insisted that we distribute Terry Jones’s Erik the Viking, which barely made enough money to cover the distribution costs. Pretty embarrassing for him since he went out on a limb for Terry. Fair enough, though, since it didn’t cost Disney anything in the long run. No, his big disaster moment was going to come later!
...hmmmmmm...
The film even gained the attention of Disney Studios Chairman Jim Henson, who approached Lynch and Gilliam with a screenplay written in 1967 by his longtime collaborator Jerry Juhl based on a story that he helped develop.

The piece was a whimsical bit of comedic surrealismé called “Tale of Sand.”
...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
 
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But the WDSS has already tackled films with visceral imagery like Maus and Grave of the Fireflies, so the brand has already established itself as a place where very raw content could be shown. If it was just Fantasia/Musicana then I might've agreed with you but the precedent does allow for horror and other genres to potentially flourish within the label, imo.

Plus, wouldn't something like Uzumaki have an R-rated label on it? At that point, parents should know better if two labels (WDSS/R) are basically screaming at them not to buy this for their kids.
This goes beyond rated R stuff if you ask me:
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H8bfac02...Modern-Horror-Anime-Modular.jpg_Q90.jpg_.webp
(I'm not even posting a pic of his work, that's how inappropriate it is even for Henson.
You put a little too much faith in the collective of human commonsense, I feel. And I’m generally an optimist pertaining to our potential for betterment…
Especially in the growing in the atmosphere of growing Evangelism and "think of the children" crowd in the US. Remember it's that second group that killed after school and Saturday morning cartoons.
 
This goes beyond rated R stuff if you ask me:
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H8bfac02...Modern-Horror-Anime-Modular.jpg_Q90.jpg_.webp
(I'm not even posting a pic of his work, that's how inappropriate it is even for Henson.

Especially in the growing in the atmosphere of growing Evangelism and "think of the children" crowd in the US. Remember it's that second group that killed after school and Saturday morning cartoons.
Strangely enough, Junji Ito does come up in connection to Disney. I'll just let that little teaser burn its way through everyone's imagination.
 
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