A Day in July: An Early 20th Century Timeline
- Thread starter Zulfurium
- Start date
Well, Russia is still a horror show; at least it's coming to some sort of end...
Portugal as the first fascist/corporate state? Interesting; wonder how this will affect Portugal's colonies...
Wonder who'll win in Italy and A-H...
As for the US, D.C. Stephenson's...proclivities will get him into trouble, while Joe Kennedy rises as OTL, I see (have you ever watched Boardwalk Empire, @Zulfurium?) and Harding still dies. Oh, God, please have something happen to J. Edgar; he'll be even more corrupt here. Sounds like West Virginia is becoming Bleeding Kansas again...
Good update, BTW, and waiting for more...
Portugal as the first fascist/corporate state? Interesting; wonder how this will affect Portugal's colonies...
Wonder who'll win in Italy and A-H...
As for the US, D.C. Stephenson's...proclivities will get him into trouble, while Joe Kennedy rises as OTL, I see (have you ever watched Boardwalk Empire, @Zulfurium?) and Harding still dies. Oh, God, please have something happen to J. Edgar; he'll be even more corrupt here. Sounds like West Virginia is becoming Bleeding Kansas again...
Good update, BTW, and waiting for more...
I am really looking forward to actually exploring what Russian society becomes as we move forward.
I thought the Sidonist state might be interesting to explore, and the effect of skipping much of the chaos of the early 1920s.
As for the US, Stephenson will take a different path ITTL, just know I am building up to something there. As to Broadwalk Empire, yeah I watched it when it was airing but it has been a while. One of the shows I am interested in revisiting when I get the opportunity. As for J. E. Hoover I am more interested in what he might make of his expanded empire. The comparison to Bleeding Kansas works in some ways and not in others, it is less of an explicit clash between two clearly defined parts of the country, but is representative of the deep divide in the US at this time.
Happy to hear it.
I am defending my thesis tomorrow, wish me luck!
Bison
Banned
Some nitpicks: Bratislava, as far as I am aware, was clled Pressburg at the time (already mentioned). You mention 'Serb Bosniaks', these two terms are generally contradictory, as Bosniak connotates Muslim. More suited is Bosnian Serb or, less adequately, Serb Bosnian.
I cant believe this could be the end of the war. What are they gonna do? Split the country into fourths? Create a coalition government?
I cant believe this could be the end of the war. What are they gonna do? Split the country into fourths? Create a coalition government?
Bookmark1995
Banned
God damn. You have the federal government effectively waging war on an entire state. Not just sending troops to put down strikers, but bombing them.
I dread the fallout of that.
I dread the fallout of that.
First thing that comes to my mind... it seems that the Reds are going to win the Civil War, methinks...
Or the final offensive ends and the war ends and the country goes into anarchy
So, caught up. Lifes' been hectic. I like both the german, french and austrian situation as well as Ireland. I'd wager that this will bite the british in the ass in a major way. Maybe they'll try and hold India, leading them to fall further and farther than OTL. That would be a major humiliation - and cautionary tale, at the dawn of the 20th century they are THE empire of the world. At the dawn of the 21st, there are Germany, France, Poland, Ukraine, The Danubian Confederation (such as it is), Scotland, Ireland...and the LON Administrative Zone of Britain. Of course for that, everything has to go wrong.
I previously stated that the USA are doing too well, considering all the shit they are going through. I re-read War-what is it good for by Ian Morris, and it made me reiterate that the USA have sublimated extreme internal tensions by winning two world wars and fighting the cold war. This is not something to understate. I'll write some more on this when I find the time, but at present, I'd expect extreme civil disturbances. Most certainly enough to reverse the migration pattern. Maybe not ACW II, but very, very close.
I previously stated that the USA are doing too well, considering all the shit they are going through. I re-read War-what is it good for by Ian Morris, and it made me reiterate that the USA have sublimated extreme internal tensions by winning two world wars and fighting the cold war. This is not something to understate. I'll write some more on this when I find the time, but at present, I'd expect extreme civil disturbances. Most certainly enough to reverse the migration pattern. Maybe not ACW II, but very, very close.
A brief summary of the situation on 1922
Russian Don Whites: Instructions not clear, White Army stucked on Tula before reaching Moscow. Germany send help pls
Italy: Don't trust nobody, not even other Italians
USA: Who would win? One of the most powerful armies on the world VS Some miners bois
France: (Maurras and Action Francaise rubbing their hands maliciously on the background)
Siberian Whites: (Laughs on American backed Tsardom)
Russian Reds: (Angry Communist United Front noises)
Austria: (Hungarian and Croats fighting on the background) This is fine
Find out what country will tear itself apart next on next chapter
PD: Good luck with your thesis. What is the subject matter?
Russian Don Whites: Instructions not clear, White Army stucked on Tula before reaching Moscow. Germany send help pls
Italy: Don't trust nobody, not even other Italians
USA: Who would win? One of the most powerful armies on the world VS Some miners bois
France: (Maurras and Action Francaise rubbing their hands maliciously on the background)
Siberian Whites: (Laughs on American backed Tsardom)
Russian Reds: (Angry Communist United Front noises)
Austria: (Hungarian and Croats fighting on the background) This is fine
Find out what country will tear itself apart next on next chapter
PD: Good luck with your thesis. What is the subject matter?
I think rank and file americans almost universally would be growing more opposed to the expeditionary forces. It doesn't matter how popular Princess Ana is popular in the right circles. Even the strongest anti-reds at the time are probably the sort of isolationist who would ask why fight the reds in Russia when there's commies right here in West Virginia. 75,000 in Russia during the winter?
Otherwise solid update, although I expect the dropping of air force bombs in America would lead to some surpreme court cases.
Good luck with your thesis. This remains one of my favorite timelines here.
Otherwise solid update, although I expect the dropping of air force bombs in America would lead to some surpreme court cases.
Good luck with your thesis. This remains one of my favorite timelines here.
Well, I think we can eliminate Denmark. The other WWI Neutrals are probably in decent shape (Sweden, Netherlands, etc.)
Hmm! Budyenny is playing a fairly major role in the Red forces which probably says quite a bit about the quality of the opposition. With the advantage of hindsight, we know that he was (at the very least) promoted beyond his capabilities and an inflexible thinker OTL. From being the shield of Ajax he might quite rapidly become the heel of Achilles.
I had my thesis defense this morning and came out of it quite well, so I now have a bit of a breather to reorient in. Should be able to start figuring out what to do with the TL moving forward soon, but I will let you know when I have a better idea of what is going to be happening. I write a bit about my thesis topic, if people are interested, in the reply to @Tannenberg
I find your thoughts on particularly India interesting, given that I would argue IOTL the British took a hardline conservative approach to India in the post Amritsar-period, moving away from the previous Liberal line. Sure, they could be even harsher than IOTL but I don't see why or how they would be. I am not really trying to wank or screw any single region on purpose, I am actively trying to avoid that but sometimes things just play out that way, but there are going to be periods where the contrast to OTL is darker and others where it is lighter. Particularly Germany has come out of all this very well, and are well on their way to becoming a hegemon across much of Europe, but nothing lasts forever and there are structural issues in any society which will eventually present problems. When and how those challenges and issues appear is another matter. For the same reason, don't expect a complete humiliation conga for any particular nation. It is a difficult balancing act to get right, and if I start straying into where it gets obnoxious please let me know - it can be a bit hard to keep track at times.
The US will definitely need to deal with some of its internal issues in the time to come. In some ways things will probably be worse than IOTL and in others they will be better. There is also an element of the US having sublimated a lot of its worst aspects and repressed them to some degree, not dealing with them at all for long stretches. There are some things which will be addressed at different times and in different manners to OTL. A straight-up ACW redux would be difficult to pull off convincingly, but who knows - I have screwed over other countries plenty already. I don't expect to go that route, but there are definitely some tense points to come in US history.
Had to laugh at that, but I do want to point out that the US has most of its forces in expeditionary forces and the standing army actually remains quite small everything taken into account.
As for my thesis, it is a bit difficult to explain without context, so I hope you don't mind me giving that. Probably comes across as sleep-inducing, but here goes.
I currently work, and interned last year, at a niche consultancy focused mostly on business development and cooperative partnerships in sustainable business (mostly in the smart city sector currently). For my thesis, my original topic (dealing with a city-to-city partnership between Aarhus in Denmark and Udaipur in India) fell through in late February after 4-6 months of prep work because one party didn't want me talking to the other. So I was at a bit of a crossroads and ended up going to my boss and asking if I could write about a project we were working on. Got the go ahead, and proceeded to write my thesis on the internal project mechanisms of a project called "Smart City World Labs" which focuses on bringing innovative smart city solutions and companies from Danish/Nordic SMEs (Small- and Medium-sized Enterprises) to Singapore using Living Labs (basically an urban environment for testing, improving and showcasing innovative solutions in the real world) in Denmark and Singapore as launching and landing pads. The project involves a cast of 20+ different actors, with around 10 partners in a consortium. So I basically tried to analyse the purpose, organization and process of the project over the course of around three years, from conception through implementation and the first few phases of the project lifespan with the aim of understanding why the project changed so much over that period. It is a really interesting and complex project which is heading into its third phase in 2019, so I was able to explore a lot of different aspects. I basically had access to all the project documents and was able to interview almost all the main actors in the project, so worked out quite well in the end.
People are getting pretty damn tired with the constant expeditioneering, and it is going to play a pretty significant role in the elections to come - alongside how chummy Anastasia has become with key figures in the current government. This hardcore internationalist approach was never going to last in the long run, but it has had a longer run ITTL and will prove influential going forward. The 75,000 men in Russia also aren't exactly pleased with being stuck there at this point, and calls for their return are getting increasingly vocal.
West Virginia seems like it would be a guerilla fighter's paradise, actually see some similarities to Afghanistan in that way - rugged, mountainous and with a clannish sense of community which would all combine to make it incredibly difficult to root out an insurgency. The fighting in West Virginia is going to have consequences, although if you have any suggestions for what such supreme court cases might look like, then I would welcome them.
Thanks for the kind words, I read your well wishes this morning before the defense along with everyone elses comments - its a pretty good confidence booster.
I am also happy to hear that you continue enjoying it.
Fantastic, now if I can just refrain from going over the 100,000 character limit per post in the future, everything should be hunky dory.
Given how relatively inconsequential Denmark is most of the time, I feel that even my very best efforts at wanking it would have relatively minimal impacts on the TL which is why I allow myself the indulgence. Now if I can just screw over Sweden in some way, I will be able to continue calling myself a proud Dane
I will probably need to set aside an update dedicated to the Neutrals at some point soon, but at the moment I have so much other stuff I also need to get through that it is a bit difficult to keep up with them. Another thing I need to figure out at some point.
Budyonny was a major commander in the OTL Civil War as well, and served with distinction in that conflict. To be honest, I think that the problem with Budyonny IOTL was his talents were unsuited to higher leadership positions. His leadership in the Civil War is actually amongst the very best - he was an aggressive cavalry general who has the tenacity to press forward in the face of immense casualties. He was ideally suited to leading a cavalry army, but never really got past his civil war glory days IOTL and was left in place in a position unsuited to his personality for far too long. An aggressive, inflexible and slow thinker isn't necessarily a bad thing in a cavalry commander - but it is absolutely horrible in anyone above that level. I think there is a tendency to shit on his capability for his later career, particularly during WW2, but he was amongst the top military leaders during the civil war with good reason. It remains to be seen what happens as we move forward.
I find your thoughts on particularly India interesting, given that I would argue IOTL the British took a hardline conservative approach to India in the post Amritsar-period, moving away from the previous Liberal line. Sure, they could be even harsher than IOTL but I don't see why or how they would be. I am not really trying to wank or screw any single region on purpose, I am actively trying to avoid that but sometimes things just play out that way, but there are going to be periods where the contrast to OTL is darker and others where it is lighter. Particularly Germany has come out of all this very well, and are well on their way to becoming a hegemon across much of Europe, but nothing lasts forever and there are structural issues in any society which will eventually present problems. When and how those challenges and issues appear is another matter. For the same reason, don't expect a complete humiliation conga for any particular nation. It is a difficult balancing act to get right, and if I start straying into where it gets obnoxious please let me know - it can be a bit hard to keep track at times.
The US will definitely need to deal with some of its internal issues in the time to come. In some ways things will probably be worse than IOTL and in others they will be better. There is also an element of the US having sublimated a lot of its worst aspects and repressed them to some degree, not dealing with them at all for long stretches. There are some things which will be addressed at different times and in different manners to OTL. A straight-up ACW redux would be difficult to pull off convincingly, but who knows - I have screwed over other countries plenty already. I don't expect to go that route, but there are definitely some tense points to come in US history.
A brief summary of the situation on 1922
Russian Don Whites: Instructions not clear, White Army stucked on Tula before reaching Moscow. Germany send help pls
Italy: Don't trust nobody, not even other Italians
USA: Who would win? One of the most powerful armies on the world VS Some miners bois
France: (Maurras and Action Francaise rubbing their hands maliciously on the background)
Siberian Whites: (Laughs on American backed Tsardom)
Russian Reds: (Angry Communist United Front noises)
Austria: (Hungarian and Croats fighting on the background) This is fine
Find out what country will tear itself apart next on next chapter
PD: Good luck with your thesis. What is the subject matter?
Had to laugh at that, but I do want to point out that the US has most of its forces in expeditionary forces and the standing army actually remains quite small everything taken into account.
As for my thesis, it is a bit difficult to explain without context, so I hope you don't mind me giving that. Probably comes across as sleep-inducing, but here goes.
I currently work, and interned last year, at a niche consultancy focused mostly on business development and cooperative partnerships in sustainable business (mostly in the smart city sector currently). For my thesis, my original topic (dealing with a city-to-city partnership between Aarhus in Denmark and Udaipur in India) fell through in late February after 4-6 months of prep work because one party didn't want me talking to the other. So I was at a bit of a crossroads and ended up going to my boss and asking if I could write about a project we were working on. Got the go ahead, and proceeded to write my thesis on the internal project mechanisms of a project called "Smart City World Labs" which focuses on bringing innovative smart city solutions and companies from Danish/Nordic SMEs (Small- and Medium-sized Enterprises) to Singapore using Living Labs (basically an urban environment for testing, improving and showcasing innovative solutions in the real world) in Denmark and Singapore as launching and landing pads. The project involves a cast of 20+ different actors, with around 10 partners in a consortium. So I basically tried to analyse the purpose, organization and process of the project over the course of around three years, from conception through implementation and the first few phases of the project lifespan with the aim of understanding why the project changed so much over that period. It is a really interesting and complex project which is heading into its third phase in 2019, so I was able to explore a lot of different aspects. I basically had access to all the project documents and was able to interview almost all the main actors in the project, so worked out quite well in the end.
People are getting pretty damn tired with the constant expeditioneering, and it is going to play a pretty significant role in the elections to come - alongside how chummy Anastasia has become with key figures in the current government. This hardcore internationalist approach was never going to last in the long run, but it has had a longer run ITTL and will prove influential going forward. The 75,000 men in Russia also aren't exactly pleased with being stuck there at this point, and calls for their return are getting increasingly vocal.
West Virginia seems like it would be a guerilla fighter's paradise, actually see some similarities to Afghanistan in that way - rugged, mountainous and with a clannish sense of community which would all combine to make it incredibly difficult to root out an insurgency. The fighting in West Virginia is going to have consequences, although if you have any suggestions for what such supreme court cases might look like, then I would welcome them.
Thanks for the kind words, I read your well wishes this morning before the defense along with everyone elses comments - its a pretty good confidence booster.
I am also happy to hear that you continue enjoying it.
Fantastic, now if I can just refrain from going over the 100,000 character limit per post in the future, everything should be hunky dory.
Given how relatively inconsequential Denmark is most of the time, I feel that even my very best efforts at wanking it would have relatively minimal impacts on the TL which is why I allow myself the indulgence. Now if I can just screw over Sweden in some way, I will be able to continue calling myself a proud Dane
I will probably need to set aside an update dedicated to the Neutrals at some point soon, but at the moment I have so much other stuff I also need to get through that it is a bit difficult to keep up with them. Another thing I need to figure out at some point.
Budyonny was a major commander in the OTL Civil War as well, and served with distinction in that conflict. To be honest, I think that the problem with Budyonny IOTL was his talents were unsuited to higher leadership positions. His leadership in the Civil War is actually amongst the very best - he was an aggressive cavalry general who has the tenacity to press forward in the face of immense casualties. He was ideally suited to leading a cavalry army, but never really got past his civil war glory days IOTL and was left in place in a position unsuited to his personality for far too long. An aggressive, inflexible and slow thinker isn't necessarily a bad thing in a cavalry commander - but it is absolutely horrible in anyone above that level. I think there is a tendency to shit on his capability for his later career, particularly during WW2, but he was amongst the top military leaders during the civil war with good reason. It remains to be seen what happens as we move forward.
Yeah, it seems like he is used for exactly what he is good at here, with more flexible people pointing him in the right direction. The risk is that his reputation could lead to him being promoted above that.