Interview with Michael Caine
Des O’Connor Tonight, December 15th, 1992
Interior – Des O’Connor Tonight Set
The Theme Music plays as the show returns. Michael Caine sits across from the host, Des O’Connor.
Des
With us now is the brilliant Michael Caine, who truly needs no introduction. His distinguished acting career has spanned three decades with numerous BAFTA and Academy Award nominations, and with one each under his belt. And yet for today, he is speaking to us about his latest film, where he teams up with Jim Henson’s Muppets, playing Ebenezer Scrooge in A Muppets Christmas Carol. What can you tell us about the film? Can we expect a sillier Scrooge?
Michael
Why, quite the contrary, actually. Yes, the Muppets themselves are up to their usual level of silliness, but I endeavored to play Scrooge completely straight. I told Brian, “I'm going to play this movie like I'm working with the Royal Shakespeare Company. I will never wink, I will never do anything Muppety. I am going to play Scrooge as if it is an utterly dramatic role and there are no puppets around me[1].” And Brian, to his great credit, wholeheartedly supported me on this. In fact, he was determined to play the story straight. Sure, Gonzo would be playing Dickens, but they would not scrimp on the drama or tragedy. Tiny Tim would remain a sick and pitiable creature, despite the cuteness of Robin the Frog. And I feel that is what makes this adaption work so well.
Des
And was it a fun production for you?
Michael
Well, Des, I must say that it was a very fun experience, despite the harrowing nature of the open pits.
Des
For the Muppet performers, you mean?
Michael
Yes, you had to walk on planks while the puppeteers stood in the pit below you so that the Muppets would be at the right level. And yet even though you had to watch your step, it was as I said, a wonderful experience, and one that I almost didn’t get to experience. At first, they had approached George Carlin to play Scrooge since he’d worked with them on Thomas the Tank Engine, but something came up and he had to drop out. David Hemmings was approached, but declined. There was a strange serendipity that brought me to the role, really, like forces pulling us together, so to speak. Brian too felt rather serendipitously pulled in to direct.
Des
Brian Henson, the director and son of Jim Henson, the Muppets creator.
Michael
Yes. He’d actually branched off into special effects and away from Muppets and was a Vice President for Special Effects at Imagineering, as it were. But when Ken Kwapis and Frank Oz proved unavailable, Jim specifically asked Brian if he’d direct the film. Brian was hesitant because there was so much to do on his main job, including managing effects on the next Spider-Man film, where they were having issues with Doctor Octopus’s mechanical tentacles, but as Brian explained it, Jim told him that he had an obligation as a leader to make sure that the job could be done without him. “Brian, if the ship can’t sail on without you, then you haven’t done your job properly,” he supposedly told him. So Brian took some time away to direct the film.
Des
And how involved was Jim Henson in the production?
Michael
Well, he was the Executive Producer, of course, but he’d delegated a lot down to others on his signature creations already by this point, so he had a very hands-off approach. “A nod or a grunt,” as they’d say to let us know when we were on the right or wrong track.”
Des
A lot of the classic Muppets were performed by new performers, from what I hear.
Michael
Yes, Jim and Frank Oz had largely retired from active Muppetry, and Richard Hunt, of course, had recently passed away. Others had largely taken over, primarily Steve Whitmire for Jim’s roles, such as Kermit, and Eric Jacobsen for the Frank roles, such as Miss Piggy.
Des
The film is dedicated to Hunt[2], if I recall.
Michael
Yes, and even though I hadn’t had the honor of working with him myself, I could feel his ghost there in the production, as it were.
Des
And we hear that they made a Muppet version of you as a gift. We have an image here.
(Image source “muppet.fandom.com”)
Michael
(laughs) Yes, quite the honor to see yourself in felt.
Des
I can imagine! Now, the Michael Caine Muppet wasn’t the only original. There were new ones for the three Christmas Ghosts.
Michael
Yes, generally they were these worn-things where one performer wore the outfit with the giant Muppet head and another sat just off camera with the mechanical mitten and controlled the facial features. It’s a trick that Brian and someone named Faz designed, and they used it on everything from Waggles [SIC] to The Lizard in the Spider-Man film. But here, they took the technology back to the Muppets and made three Ghosts of Christmas with them. Well, one of them, at least. The Ghost of Christmas Past was a standard Muppet and they used a lot of camera tricks to make her ghostly, and I guess Yet-to-Come was mostly a hood and gloves. In the end, the puppetry effects were quite charming and surprisingly relatable. In fact, it’s amazing how easy it is to believe that even the basic hand puppets are living beings and talking to you. I found myself conversing freely with Kermit the Frog and paying no attention whatsoever to Steve in the pit below me. That’s the real magic of the Muppets, not the technology of the animatronics, but the ability of the performers, the “man behind the Muppet,” to make you forget that they’re lifeless felt and truly believe, like a child on Christmas, that they are living, breathing beings with their own lives and personalities.
Des
Why believe in Father Christmas when you can believe in a talking frog?
Michael
(laughs) Exactly.
(Image source “chud.com”)
Des
And the sets were quite spectacular, considering the low budget.
Michael
Why, yes. They built them at Shepperton [Studios] near where they were filming Thomas [the Tank Engine]. They used a lot of forced perspective to make the tiny little set look like the sprawling streets of Victorian England and did remarkably well with it. Quite elegant, really.
Des
And yet in what may be one of the most magical parts of the film, you sing your own parts.
Michael
(laughs) Yes. Nobody has ever accused me of being a virtuoso singer, but Brian insisted that I sing my own parts. The biggest challenge was a duet that I had with Meredith Braun. It’s a romantic and melancholy song about how Scrooge Past ruined a chance at happiness with the beautiful Belle because of his greed, and it was a serious bit of work for me since Meredith is a celebrated West End performer while I am simply me. A lot of folks at the studio wanted to cut the song when the kids in the test audience were growing bored, but Jim intervened and it stayed in, thankfully. I would have felt put right out had it been cut, given the effort that I put into it[3].
Des
As alluded to earlier, this is, despite the Muppet whimsey, still a very sincere adaption of the Dickens tale.
Michael
Yes, down to the original Dickensian language in many cases, the darker stuff included. Sickness, poverty, sadness, and even death, with Gonzo as Dickens and [Rizzo] the Rat commenting upon it all, of course. “Dark stuff for the kids at home,” and all. But Brian and Jerry Juhl, the writer, were very clear that they wanted to play the story straight both in spirit and in dialog, so Kermit-as-Bob Cratchit is still objectively Bob Cratchit without a bunch of winks to the audience…OK a few winks, but still very grounded in that original Dickensian Cratchit with his hopeful romantic nature[4].
Des
Not too far a cry for Kermit, really.
Michael
I guess not! Good “casting” as it were! (laughs)
(Image source British GQ)
Des
So far, A Muppet Christmas Carol has done fairly well, having a decent opening weekend[5]. However, Disney’s own The Bamboo Princess, made in partnership with Studio Ghibli in Japan, has stolen a lot of its thunder. It also has plenty of competition from other studios. Do you think that it will perform well?
Michael
That always remains to be seen. Though I recommend seeing it, and not simply because I happen to be in it. It’s a loving and affectionate remake of the Dickens classic that just happens to have Muppets. I felt very happy to take my daughter to see it. Admittedly she is a teenager now, but she still enjoyed it. She says Robin was “adorable”, or I believe that was the word that she used.
Des
And that brings us to the end. Thank you, Mr. Michael Caine, for your time.
Michael
And thank you as well, Des.
Des
A Muppet Christmas Carol, starring tonight’s guest Michael Caine, is in theaters now. Coming up next, we discuss another puppet-based production when Gerry Anderson comes to talk to us about his upcoming Space Police spin-off series Galaxy University. I’ll see you then.
Theme music to
Des O’Conner Tonight plays. Fade to Commercial.
[1] Quote also from our timeline.
[2] In our timeline it was dedicated to both Jim Henson and Richard Hunt.
[3] In our timeline it was cut from the theatrical release and only later restored on home video. It tends to bore younger kids but connect strongly with their parents and older siblings.
[4] I strongly considered making this notably different than the version from our timeline, with Carlin as Scrooge and a much more whimsical and satirical take on Dickens. But then three ghosts came to visit me in the night and convinced me to leave it pretty much as it. Merry Christmas, all!
[5] Very similar to our timeline’s film. Will do better without having to compete with
Home Alone 2 and
Aladdin, making about $42 million against a modest $12 million budget.
