I find it pretty hard to believe that so many actors with their careers in movies could be convinced to slum it in the decidedly lower class television shows this early. Prestige TV isn't even a thing and there wad decidedly a hierarchy of sorts. TV actors were infinitely lesser than Movie Stars. It wasn't until the mid 00's that movie people started doing TV roles and it didn't get popular until streaming services showed you could get a paycheck and prestige that wouldn't detract from a movie career.
When you Wish Upon a Frog (Book II of the Jim Henson at Disney saga)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
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You'd be surprised how many famous actors/directors/writers "slummed it" for OTL Young Indiana Jones, many of them already very famous and respected actors. I only added a few names to the list compared to OTL.
See "Reality is Unrealistic".
List of notable actors appearing in Young Indiana Jones
This list includes actors of note who played a role in The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles and/or The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones. Actors noted include those who also played a role in the Indiana Jones films, the Star Wars films, or are considered among the most famous stars.
indianajones.fandom.com
And the 1990s were full of Star Cameos in TV shows. Just look at how many big name actors and Broadway stars appeared in sitcoms like Friends and Mad About You and even The Nanny.
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If you're talking about The Young Indiana Jones Saga the only 'movie' actors that I can find on are Dennis Quaid (who's role was more like cameos), Carrie Fisher (again who's role was more like cameos), Jack Palance (it's not like he was very busy at the time), River Phoenix (his movie roles at the time were art house films), Toshiro Mifune (a single episode), Steve Martin (a single episode, plus he got his start on TV), and Eddie Murphy (a single episode, that he also directed, plus he also got his start on TV). If you can name any other 'movie' actors that appear please tell me.
I’m imagining that Takaei is reprising his character from “Mask of the Monkey King”, or even playing that characters father.You'd be surprised how many famous actors/directors/writers "slummed it" for OTL Young Indiana Jones, many of them already very famous and respected actors. I only added a few names to the list compared to OTL.
See "Reality is Unrealistic".
List of notable actors appearing in Young Indiana Jones
This list includes actors of note who played a role in The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles and/or The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones. Actors noted include those who also played a role in the Indiana Jones films, the Star Wars films, or are considered among the most famous stars.
And the 1990s were full of Star Cameos in TV shows. Just look at how many big name actors and broadways stars appeared in sitcoms like Friends and Mad About You.
Not likely, I imagine it's difficult to play a younger version of a character when you yourself are older, and it's not being done ironically.
Conventional Hollywood wisdom is that TV and movies stay separate and Never Shall the Twain meet, unless you start off in TV and work your way up.
Did Richard Donner ever get the chance to direct a Disney movie IOTL or will it happen ITTL
@Geekhis Khan
Sorry I spoke too soon, but I had this exchange in my head...
Fozzie: Are you Dijon Salami?
Devon Sawa: No. I'm Devon Sawa.
Fozzie: Okay, sorry about that, uh...Divine Swami.
Tim Burton VIII: Dead and Loving It
Part 9: Bringing Things Back from the Dead
Excerpt from Dark Funhouse, the Art and Work of Tim Burton, an Illustrated Compendium
In 1990 Winona Ryder brought Tim Burton a James V. Hart script titled “Bram Stoker’s Dracula”. A long-time fan of the original novel, Ryder was particularly fascinated by Hart’s romantic take on the classic story. “What attracted me to the script is the fact that it's a very emotional love story, which is not really what you think of when you think about Dracula,” she said in a later interview. “Mina, like many women in the late 1800s, has a lot of repressed sexuality. Everything about women in that era, the way those corsets forced them to move, was indicative of repression. To express passion was freakish[1].”
Tim Burton looked through the script, and agreed wholeheartedly. Alas, he was too busy to direct it himself. Instead, he handed the film to his cinematographer and second-unit director on The Addams Family, Barry Sonnenfeld.
“The early ‘90s were all about bringing things back from the dead for the Skeleton Crew, be that the rich bitches of Death Becomes Her, Ed Wood and Bela Lugosi, Vlad Dracula, or a Tyrannosaurus Rex.” – Henry Selick
It was Sonnenfeld’s directorial debut, but after a decade of providing skilled cinematography for some of the best auteur directors like the Cohen Brothers and, of course, Burton, he was already well established behind the camera and had learned from the masters, as it were. Still, to do the picture right would require a very large budget. It would also require a major studio to support it.
When MGM and Fantasia showed only tepid interest, Burton and Sonnenfeld decided to take full advantage of the semiautonomous nature of Skeleton Crew Productions and approached Universal, the studio noted for the most famous monster movies of the classic film era. Universal was interested and a deal was signed. This partnership with Universal caused some consternation on the Disney board of directors, coming as it did at a time when a growing theme park rivalry between the two studios was playing out in Orlando. When news of a possible Dracula-themed attraction at Universal Studios Florida surfaced, some on the board wanted Burton’s head on a plate! Creative Head Jim Henson smoothed out some ruffled feathers, and the production went on. Still, though, Burton decided to play things a little more carefully in the future when major rival studios were involved.
Burton and the Crew approached the film as both a salute to the old classic films, complete with cameos by Christopher Lee and Michael Gough, but also wanted to make it a modernized retelling, making the titular vampire into a romantic, Byronic antihero rather than a soulless ghoul. They would use deliberately old-fashioned model work for the effects with some deliberate nods to Hammer Horror, but with a Burtonesque set and costume design and color desaturation that gave it all a modern, gothic feel. Cheryl Henson would lead costuming, combining traditional Victorian fashions with a sort of grungy, lived-in feel. The smog and industrial towers of London would be played against the mists and castles of Transylvania with themes of the “horrors of the modern” versus the “terrors of the medieval”. Sonnenfeld’s visual storytelling choices made deliberate comparisons between the terrified villagers of Transylvania and the struggling factory workers and frantic asylum inmates of Victorian London.
For the most part, it was played completely straight as a tragic romance and horror film. But, like Burton, Sonnenfeld gave it all a very slight comedic touch, based mostly on subtle and ironic winks to convention. Just enough over-the-top to soften the darkness.
Casting choices were made that gave the film a youthful feel. Ryder, who brought Burton the film to begin with, took the romantic female lead of Mina Murray and they brought in Johnny Depp as Johnathan Harker when River Phoenix proved uninterested in the role. Up-and-coming British character actor Helena Bonham Carter, who’d worked previously with Burton and Ryder when she voiced Ysabel in Mort, would play Mina’s friend Lucy. British stage actor Timothy Spall was brought in as the insane insectivore Renfield. And for the critical roles of Dracula and Van Helsing, they would bring in acclaimed actors Jason Isaacs for the former and Jeremy Irons for the latter. Isaacs in particular gave the titular vampire a mix of charming, sophisticated, menacing, and alluring that perfectly captured the tragic romantic that the production team was seeking, and maintained great screen chemistry with both Carter and Ryder. By contrast, Irons made the outwardly heroic Van Helsing into an obsessive, Ahab-like character, driven by anger and revenge, giving him many of the tropes of a villain.
Filming would alternate between sound stages, London location shots, and on-site filming in Romania and Yugoslavia. The Chiodo Brothers’ model work would be slipped into these location shots in a clearly artisan manner, intended to evoke a nearly dreamlike sense. The Chiodos also provided grotesque makeup and creature effects. Finally, Danny Elfman would give the film an ethereal score, flowing and haunting in contrast to his more stereotypical staccato “bounce”[2].
But what set Bran Stoker’s Dracula apart from the many, many prior Dracula films was the focus on Dracula as a “Romantic” in the Victorian, Byronic sense of the word. He was no longer a satanic fiend, but a troubled man, cursed by his own tragic losses. His infernal pact was in this telling not an evil path to power, but an extreme if understandable reaction to lost love. This was, in Sonnenfeld’s words, “a tragic romance that transcended space and time wrapped in the guise of a horror film.”
And between Sonnenfeld’s humanizing direction and Burton’s signature aesthetic, the film clicked with audiences, earning positive reviews and making a good $194 million against its $42 million budget[3]. Critics generally liked it and audiences, particularly teenage audiences, found a lot to love in the tragic romance between Issacs’s Dracula and Ryder’s Mina (whose English accent had noticeably improved compared to Mort thanks to coaching). The film would cement Sonnenfeld for success, and while he’d turn down a permanent job with the Skeleton Crew, he would become a frequent collaborator, in particular on the Addams Family sequels.
Universal, meanwhile, was ecstatic and immediately offered the Skeleton Crew the opportunity to work on another Hart treatment, this time based on Mary Shelly’s Frankenstein, but Burton and crew reluctantly turned it down given the earlier protests of the Disney board. Instead, Sonnenfeld would go to work with Universal directly as a freelancer, and would become the film’s producer right after he finished on Addams Family Values, ultimately hiring David Cronenberg as director.
For the Skeleton Crew itself, Bram Stoker’s Dracula marked another big success, and one that would help balance out the underperformance of James and the Giant Peach and the losses from the mostly-arthouse Ed Wood. It also eased the minds of the Disney board, who were concerned about Burton’s plans for the upcoming Jurassic Park, which was set to be Burton’s biggest and most expensive film to date.
[1] Ryder took the script to Francis Ford Coppola in our timeline, with whom she was working on Godfather III before dropping out. Since Coppola worked with Rebecca Schaeffer in this timeline instead of Ryder, she instead takes the script to Burton. This quote is per our timeline.
[2] Visually, this will be somewhat similar to the Coppola version since Burton’s aesthetic and proclivities lend themselves to a similarly stylistic approach. Costumes will be more Burtonesque, being not far removed from our timeline’s adaption of Sweeny Todd. Music-wise, I am personally deeply saddened to butterfly the iconic Wojciech Kilar score, which is not just a “killer” score for the Coppola film itself but one of the best film scores, and indeed best and most memorable works of Classical Music, ever in my opinion. But I’d need to stretch things pretty far to have Burton go to anyone but Elfman.
[3] Not as good as the Coppola version, which had a bit of an “event” vibe to it, but still a very solid performance on par with Sonnenfeld’s Addams Family movies from our timeline.
Excerpt from Dark Funhouse, the Art and Work of Tim Burton, an Illustrated Compendium
In 1990 Winona Ryder brought Tim Burton a James V. Hart script titled “Bram Stoker’s Dracula”. A long-time fan of the original novel, Ryder was particularly fascinated by Hart’s romantic take on the classic story. “What attracted me to the script is the fact that it's a very emotional love story, which is not really what you think of when you think about Dracula,” she said in a later interview. “Mina, like many women in the late 1800s, has a lot of repressed sexuality. Everything about women in that era, the way those corsets forced them to move, was indicative of repression. To express passion was freakish[1].”
Tim Burton looked through the script, and agreed wholeheartedly. Alas, he was too busy to direct it himself. Instead, he handed the film to his cinematographer and second-unit director on The Addams Family, Barry Sonnenfeld.
“The early ‘90s were all about bringing things back from the dead for the Skeleton Crew, be that the rich bitches of Death Becomes Her, Ed Wood and Bela Lugosi, Vlad Dracula, or a Tyrannosaurus Rex.” – Henry Selick
It was Sonnenfeld’s directorial debut, but after a decade of providing skilled cinematography for some of the best auteur directors like the Cohen Brothers and, of course, Burton, he was already well established behind the camera and had learned from the masters, as it were. Still, to do the picture right would require a very large budget. It would also require a major studio to support it.
When MGM and Fantasia showed only tepid interest, Burton and Sonnenfeld decided to take full advantage of the semiautonomous nature of Skeleton Crew Productions and approached Universal, the studio noted for the most famous monster movies of the classic film era. Universal was interested and a deal was signed. This partnership with Universal caused some consternation on the Disney board of directors, coming as it did at a time when a growing theme park rivalry between the two studios was playing out in Orlando. When news of a possible Dracula-themed attraction at Universal Studios Florida surfaced, some on the board wanted Burton’s head on a plate! Creative Head Jim Henson smoothed out some ruffled feathers, and the production went on. Still, though, Burton decided to play things a little more carefully in the future when major rival studios were involved.
Burton and the Crew approached the film as both a salute to the old classic films, complete with cameos by Christopher Lee and Michael Gough, but also wanted to make it a modernized retelling, making the titular vampire into a romantic, Byronic antihero rather than a soulless ghoul. They would use deliberately old-fashioned model work for the effects with some deliberate nods to Hammer Horror, but with a Burtonesque set and costume design and color desaturation that gave it all a modern, gothic feel. Cheryl Henson would lead costuming, combining traditional Victorian fashions with a sort of grungy, lived-in feel. The smog and industrial towers of London would be played against the mists and castles of Transylvania with themes of the “horrors of the modern” versus the “terrors of the medieval”. Sonnenfeld’s visual storytelling choices made deliberate comparisons between the terrified villagers of Transylvania and the struggling factory workers and frantic asylum inmates of Victorian London.
For the most part, it was played completely straight as a tragic romance and horror film. But, like Burton, Sonnenfeld gave it all a very slight comedic touch, based mostly on subtle and ironic winks to convention. Just enough over-the-top to soften the darkness.
Casting choices were made that gave the film a youthful feel. Ryder, who brought Burton the film to begin with, took the romantic female lead of Mina Murray and they brought in Johnny Depp as Johnathan Harker when River Phoenix proved uninterested in the role. Up-and-coming British character actor Helena Bonham Carter, who’d worked previously with Burton and Ryder when she voiced Ysabel in Mort, would play Mina’s friend Lucy. British stage actor Timothy Spall was brought in as the insane insectivore Renfield. And for the critical roles of Dracula and Van Helsing, they would bring in acclaimed actors Jason Isaacs for the former and Jeremy Irons for the latter. Isaacs in particular gave the titular vampire a mix of charming, sophisticated, menacing, and alluring that perfectly captured the tragic romantic that the production team was seeking, and maintained great screen chemistry with both Carter and Ryder. By contrast, Irons made the outwardly heroic Van Helsing into an obsessive, Ahab-like character, driven by anger and revenge, giving him many of the tropes of a villain.
Filming would alternate between sound stages, London location shots, and on-site filming in Romania and Yugoslavia. The Chiodo Brothers’ model work would be slipped into these location shots in a clearly artisan manner, intended to evoke a nearly dreamlike sense. The Chiodos also provided grotesque makeup and creature effects. Finally, Danny Elfman would give the film an ethereal score, flowing and haunting in contrast to his more stereotypical staccato “bounce”[2].
But what set Bran Stoker’s Dracula apart from the many, many prior Dracula films was the focus on Dracula as a “Romantic” in the Victorian, Byronic sense of the word. He was no longer a satanic fiend, but a troubled man, cursed by his own tragic losses. His infernal pact was in this telling not an evil path to power, but an extreme if understandable reaction to lost love. This was, in Sonnenfeld’s words, “a tragic romance that transcended space and time wrapped in the guise of a horror film.”
And between Sonnenfeld’s humanizing direction and Burton’s signature aesthetic, the film clicked with audiences, earning positive reviews and making a good $194 million against its $42 million budget[3]. Critics generally liked it and audiences, particularly teenage audiences, found a lot to love in the tragic romance between Issacs’s Dracula and Ryder’s Mina (whose English accent had noticeably improved compared to Mort thanks to coaching). The film would cement Sonnenfeld for success, and while he’d turn down a permanent job with the Skeleton Crew, he would become a frequent collaborator, in particular on the Addams Family sequels.
Universal, meanwhile, was ecstatic and immediately offered the Skeleton Crew the opportunity to work on another Hart treatment, this time based on Mary Shelly’s Frankenstein, but Burton and crew reluctantly turned it down given the earlier protests of the Disney board. Instead, Sonnenfeld would go to work with Universal directly as a freelancer, and would become the film’s producer right after he finished on Addams Family Values, ultimately hiring David Cronenberg as director.
For the Skeleton Crew itself, Bram Stoker’s Dracula marked another big success, and one that would help balance out the underperformance of James and the Giant Peach and the losses from the mostly-arthouse Ed Wood. It also eased the minds of the Disney board, who were concerned about Burton’s plans for the upcoming Jurassic Park, which was set to be Burton’s biggest and most expensive film to date.
[1] Ryder took the script to Francis Ford Coppola in our timeline, with whom she was working on Godfather III before dropping out. Since Coppola worked with Rebecca Schaeffer in this timeline instead of Ryder, she instead takes the script to Burton. This quote is per our timeline.
[2] Visually, this will be somewhat similar to the Coppola version since Burton’s aesthetic and proclivities lend themselves to a similarly stylistic approach. Costumes will be more Burtonesque, being not far removed from our timeline’s adaption of Sweeny Todd. Music-wise, I am personally deeply saddened to butterfly the iconic Wojciech Kilar score, which is not just a “killer” score for the Coppola film itself but one of the best film scores, and indeed best and most memorable works of Classical Music, ever in my opinion. But I’d need to stretch things pretty far to have Burton go to anyone but Elfman.
[3] Not as good as the Coppola version, which had a bit of an “event” vibe to it, but still a very solid performance on par with Sonnenfeld’s Addams Family movies from our timeline.
Good update...
BTW, assuming the series Party of Five is still made in TTL, there is one thing that might be different about it from OTL. According to this: https://www.cracked.com/image-pictofact-6432-15-behind-the-scenes-facts-about-party-of-five the creators of the Party of Five tv series originally wanted the lead to be a female sibling, not Charlie. Fox executives shot the idea down because, in their words, no one would have accepted that. Maybe, in TTL, that happens and, if so, I do have one idea for who could play the oldest female sibling: Rebecca Schaeffer (she was born in 1967)--assuming, of course, she isn't busy with her film career...
Here's another surprising choice: Mariska Hartigay (she was born in 1964--Matthew Fox, who played Charlie, was born in 1966 in OTL). Plus, there's a real-life subtext: Hartigay's mother was Jayne Mansfield, and Mariska (along with two of her brothers) survived the crash in 1967 that killed her mother...
BTW, assuming the series Party of Five is still made in TTL, there is one thing that might be different about it from OTL. According to this: https://www.cracked.com/image-pictofact-6432-15-behind-the-scenes-facts-about-party-of-five the creators of the Party of Five tv series originally wanted the lead to be a female sibling, not Charlie. Fox executives shot the idea down because, in their words, no one would have accepted that. Maybe, in TTL, that happens and, if so, I do have one idea for who could play the oldest female sibling: Rebecca Schaeffer (she was born in 1967)--assuming, of course, she isn't busy with her film career...
Here's another surprising choice: Mariska Hartigay (she was born in 1964--Matthew Fox, who played Charlie, was born in 1966 in OTL). Plus, there's a real-life subtext: Hartigay's mother was Jayne Mansfield, and Mariska (along with two of her brothers) survived the crash in 1967 that killed her mother...
I was wondering what would happen to this movie. I did suspect Universal would pick it up ITTL too. Bring on the Universal Monster Renaissance, then!
Glad Barry could get some directing duties.
Hmm, maybe without this, butterflies mean Francis will be able to make and direct this instead:
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Glad Barry could get some directing duties.
Hmm, maybe without this, butterflies mean Francis will be able to make and direct this instead:
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Oooh, a potential 'Universal Monsters' revival in the making, perhaps?
Much as I like a good satirical sendup to old media conventions a la Shrek! (I'll PM you about an idea I have for later in the timeline), it's even more welcome to see one of these 'generational' retellings that get done 100% straight. I think the rule of thumb is something like 'you can make a good satire every five to ten years, but you can only set the new standard once in every thirty'.
Speaking of, we're badly due for a decent King Arthur or Robin Hood movie. OTL I think most people still consider the 'definitive' Robin Hood either the Disney animated versions or the one with Errol Flynn from 1938! I mean, how hard can it be to outdo a film that's older than some American cities? They keep trying, but nobody's been able to capture the magic of that first Technicolor masterpiece.
Probably because they forget to make it FUN.
Much as I like a good satirical sendup to old media conventions a la Shrek! (I'll PM you about an idea I have for later in the timeline), it's even more welcome to see one of these 'generational' retellings that get done 100% straight. I think the rule of thumb is something like 'you can make a good satire every five to ten years, but you can only set the new standard once in every thirty'.
Speaking of, we're badly due for a decent King Arthur or Robin Hood movie. OTL I think most people still consider the 'definitive' Robin Hood either the Disney animated versions or the one with Errol Flynn from 1938! I mean, how hard can it be to outdo a film that's older than some American cities? They keep trying, but nobody's been able to capture the magic of that first Technicolor masterpiece.
Probably because they forget to make it FUN.
A female lead? As part of an ensemble?! On television?! Preposterous! What if she became popular? That would threaten our very select worldview carefully constructed to validate our privileged position in life!
Funnily enough I heard that Corsets aren't that bad, more impractical than a bra, but women were thankful for the support.
Good thing that they didn't bring back Disco😂
Tim has learned the biggest downside of working for a major studio: You can't just do what you want. Maybe he will consider parting with Disney in the future?
So are we getting a full Universal Monsters Revival? Only one missing is either the Wolfman or Jekyll and Hide.
Great chapter @Geekhis Khan
Forgot to add, but...
"“The early ‘90s were all about bringing things back from the dead for the Skeleton Crew, be that the rich bitches of Death Becomes Her, Ed Wood and Bela Lugosi, Vlad Dracula, or a Tyrannosaurus Rex.” – Henry Selick"
Love this quote.
"“The early ‘90s were all about bringing things back from the dead for the Skeleton Crew, be that the rich bitches of Death Becomes Her, Ed Wood and Bela Lugosi, Vlad Dracula, or a Tyrannosaurus Rex.” – Henry Selick"
Love this quote.
Oh, that sounds amazing. It may not be The Fly (which A) was it made ITTL? and B) need to watch eventually), but likely will have a ton of social commentary that contextualises the oozing body horror of the version.
Well, the 1991 Robin Hood movie was made with the Die Hard director and Liam Nelson as Rob himself, so that may help.
A Prince Among Thieves
John McTiernan is no stranger to the action hero, having practically reinvented what the term means in 1988’s Nothing Can Last. So it should come as no surprise to see him tacking one of the earliest action heroes, the legendary noble thief Robin Hood in this summer’s Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. The film, starring Liam Neeson in the titular role, Morgan Freeman as his wise Moorish friend Azeem, Catherine Zeta-Jones as a very seductive Maid Marian, and the lovably dislikeable Alan Rickman as the villainous Sheriff of Nottingham, is indeed an action film. Sure, you see some of the beats from the traditional story (though not the iconic archery contest!), but the real driving factor here is the nonstop over-the-top action. This is a summer buddy action film, make no bones about it. But like McTiernan’s prior films, it elevates the action with a sense of heart and humanity that makes the adventure meanigful, the jokes land, and the seemingly impossible action set pieces feel fresh and believable. Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves may not be the most accurate retelling of the legend, but it’s arguably one of the most fun.
Do I Look Worried?
Banned
Wonder if this movie still gets made. If it is spun of into a TV series, Madeline Zima (pictured here with Hulk) will have a more meaty part then Grace Sheffield…
Nah, the disco revival doesn't happen until the 2000's. And for good reason, disco is awesome!
This version of Bran Stoker’s Dracula sounds like a cool, sexy, Gothic adaption, and also slightly more coherent than the OTL one that I found a little 'unfinished' in places, though the creature SFX was good.
Good casting. I do like Timothy Spall, he plays unhinged quite well. Issacs and Irons together probably chewed a lot of scenes together I'd imagine.
Decent return at the box office. I wonder if this could triggers the 'Universal Monster Verse' off ITTL? We really could do with a decent werewolf movie; my preference would be one with heroic Werewolves, but the odds on a Werewolf: The Apocalypse movie are probably very small.
Cannot see why ITTL me would not see this in cinema, since I saw it OTL.
Fangs for the movie @Geekhis Khan
Good casting. I do like Timothy Spall, he plays unhinged quite well. Issacs and Irons together probably chewed a lot of scenes together I'd imagine.
Decent return at the box office. I wonder if this could triggers the 'Universal Monster Verse' off ITTL? We really could do with a decent werewolf movie; my preference would be one with heroic Werewolves, but the odds on a Werewolf: The Apocalypse movie are probably very small.
Cannot see why ITTL me would not see this in cinema, since I saw it OTL.
Fangs for the movie @Geekhis Khan
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