Sir John Valentine Carden survives.
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24 April 1941. Thermopylae Line, Greece. (Part 1)
allanpcameron
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24 April 1941. Thermopylae Line, Greece.
The planned evacuation of the Anzacs was due to begin on 28 April, so the need to hold the Thermopylae Line was a matter of days rather than hours. On the right, the New Zealand 6th Brigade had the front line. Brigadier Barrowclough had placed the four companies of the 25th Battalion in positions overlooking the road and the river. The 24th Battalion were astride the road behind them at Ayia Trias, and the 26th in rear of it astride the road at Molos. The 4th Brigade were in reserve behind the forward positions, while 5th Brigade were further back, with one Battalion preparing positions on the road to Athens as another blocking position. The Division’s artillery, reinforced by the 64th Medium Regiment 4.5-inch howitzers, were well positioned, with 5th Regiment well forward at Ayia Trias to provide direct fire, along with the 2-pdrs of the anti-tank regiment. The A13 tanks of 3rd Hussars were at Molos, as well camouflaged as possible to protect them from air attack.
The Australian 17th Brigade were still recovering from their efforts at Dhomokos. Savige’s men, along with 1st Armoured Brigade were being held in readiness for playing their blocking role again, but they were also prepared in case the Germans tried to land parachutists behind the Thermopylae Line.
The Australian 19th Brigade were covering the Brallos Pass, with the 16th Brigade in reserve. The 2/11th Battalion, the late arrivals, had the forward positions overlooking the approaches to the pass. They, like the rest of Brigadier Vasey’s 19th Brigade, had supplied themselves with captured Italian weapons after the battle of Sidi Barrani. Although now fully equipped with standard British Army weapons, they had retained, surreptitiously, a certain amount of ‘extras’. A Stuka had found out to the cost of its crew the presence of a Breda Model 1931 anti-aircraft machine gun. The Battalion’s positions were supported by a company of 2/1st Machine Gun Battalion, whose Vickers HMGs would be put to good use. The also had a battery of 2-pdr guns from the Divisional anti-tank regiment. In addition, two 25-pdrs of 2/2nd Field Regiment had been positioned on the forward slope able to fire directly at the bridge over the Sperkhios River. A duel between these two guns and some German medium artillery had taken place the day before, and eventually both guns had been put out of action, but not before they had inflicted casualties on the Germans who had been pushing south from Lamia.
Brigadier Vasey had given the order: "Here we bloody well are and here we bloody well stay," which Bell, his brigade major, translated: "The 19th Brigade will hold its present defensive positions come what may." Vasey had placed 2/4th Battalion on the rear slope of the pass, allowing the 2/11th Battalion to pass through them when no longer able to hold the ground. One Company of the 2/4th Battalion had been attached to the Greek Reserve Officers’ College Battalion, to provide communication between the two allied units. Some of the ‘extra’ Italian weapons had been handed over to this Greek unit, which was less well equipped than the Australians. The 2/8th Battalion, the weakest of the three, having sustained more casualties in the previous fighting, was in reserve keeping an eye on the flank from the direction of Gravia.
To the south-west of Brallos, Brigadier Allen’s 16th Brigade had dug in overlooking the road and railway, and would act as the rear-guard for the rest of the Brigade when it disengaged. Brigadier Herring, commander of the Divisional artillery, had sited all three Field Artillery Regiments in such a way that they could provide a curtain of steel in front of the Australian infantry. The Engineers had constructed a couple of tracks to allow the gun tractors access through some rough ground, so that the guns could be moved more easily.
As with the day before, the Germans were still obviously dealing with trying to get their forces down to Lamia through the limited roads which had been cratered by the withdrawing Engineers. In the early afternoon, in addition to the regular visits from the Luftwaffe, the German artillery had obviously been able to get into range and the defenders of the Thermopylae Line were subject to a strong bombardment. Since most of the Anzacs had been in position for a couple of days, they had had time to prepare suitable protection for themselves and casualties were light. The Greek Battalion however did suffer some killed, as well as wounded, as they had less time to prepare their positions.
The planned evacuation of the Anzacs was due to begin on 28 April, so the need to hold the Thermopylae Line was a matter of days rather than hours. On the right, the New Zealand 6th Brigade had the front line. Brigadier Barrowclough had placed the four companies of the 25th Battalion in positions overlooking the road and the river. The 24th Battalion were astride the road behind them at Ayia Trias, and the 26th in rear of it astride the road at Molos. The 4th Brigade were in reserve behind the forward positions, while 5th Brigade were further back, with one Battalion preparing positions on the road to Athens as another blocking position. The Division’s artillery, reinforced by the 64th Medium Regiment 4.5-inch howitzers, were well positioned, with 5th Regiment well forward at Ayia Trias to provide direct fire, along with the 2-pdrs of the anti-tank regiment. The A13 tanks of 3rd Hussars were at Molos, as well camouflaged as possible to protect them from air attack.
The Australian 17th Brigade were still recovering from their efforts at Dhomokos. Savige’s men, along with 1st Armoured Brigade were being held in readiness for playing their blocking role again, but they were also prepared in case the Germans tried to land parachutists behind the Thermopylae Line.
The Australian 19th Brigade were covering the Brallos Pass, with the 16th Brigade in reserve. The 2/11th Battalion, the late arrivals, had the forward positions overlooking the approaches to the pass. They, like the rest of Brigadier Vasey’s 19th Brigade, had supplied themselves with captured Italian weapons after the battle of Sidi Barrani. Although now fully equipped with standard British Army weapons, they had retained, surreptitiously, a certain amount of ‘extras’. A Stuka had found out to the cost of its crew the presence of a Breda Model 1931 anti-aircraft machine gun. The Battalion’s positions were supported by a company of 2/1st Machine Gun Battalion, whose Vickers HMGs would be put to good use. The also had a battery of 2-pdr guns from the Divisional anti-tank regiment. In addition, two 25-pdrs of 2/2nd Field Regiment had been positioned on the forward slope able to fire directly at the bridge over the Sperkhios River. A duel between these two guns and some German medium artillery had taken place the day before, and eventually both guns had been put out of action, but not before they had inflicted casualties on the Germans who had been pushing south from Lamia.
Brigadier Vasey had given the order: "Here we bloody well are and here we bloody well stay," which Bell, his brigade major, translated: "The 19th Brigade will hold its present defensive positions come what may." Vasey had placed 2/4th Battalion on the rear slope of the pass, allowing the 2/11th Battalion to pass through them when no longer able to hold the ground. One Company of the 2/4th Battalion had been attached to the Greek Reserve Officers’ College Battalion, to provide communication between the two allied units. Some of the ‘extra’ Italian weapons had been handed over to this Greek unit, which was less well equipped than the Australians. The 2/8th Battalion, the weakest of the three, having sustained more casualties in the previous fighting, was in reserve keeping an eye on the flank from the direction of Gravia.
To the south-west of Brallos, Brigadier Allen’s 16th Brigade had dug in overlooking the road and railway, and would act as the rear-guard for the rest of the Brigade when it disengaged. Brigadier Herring, commander of the Divisional artillery, had sited all three Field Artillery Regiments in such a way that they could provide a curtain of steel in front of the Australian infantry. The Engineers had constructed a couple of tracks to allow the gun tractors access through some rough ground, so that the guns could be moved more easily.
As with the day before, the Germans were still obviously dealing with trying to get their forces down to Lamia through the limited roads which had been cratered by the withdrawing Engineers. In the early afternoon, in addition to the regular visits from the Luftwaffe, the German artillery had obviously been able to get into range and the defenders of the Thermopylae Line were subject to a strong bombardment. Since most of the Anzacs had been in position for a couple of days, they had had time to prepare suitable protection for themselves and casualties were light. The Greek Battalion however did suffer some killed, as well as wounded, as they had less time to prepare their positions.
allanpcameron
Donor
I had hoped to complete this update properly, but I'm away for a couple of days break and didn't want to leave too long a gap between posts.
Allan
Allan
That's okay. As much as it pains me to say it (because this is a really awesome TL), real-life is more important than this.
That's fine, in any case time for a battle of the ages to begin.
The allies are more numerous, better-equipped, and have had more time to prepare their positions. Plus the battle is going to start at least a day later than OTL. I do not see the Germans having a good time of this.
Its still a retreat but a fighting one and Germany is paying a high price it can ill afford for territory that does it no good in the long term.
Guys, I found a phd dissertation on the development of the Greek Armed Forces in Egypt in 1941-1944. Unfortunately it is in greek, but it has a lot of useful information that can show how the exiled greek forces can help the Allied effort.
In OTL, the ships that escaped to Egypt were 1 armoured cruiser, 6 destroyers, 3 torpedo boats, 5 submarines, 1 repair ship and 3 transports. At January 1st 1942 the Greek Navy-in-exile had 241 officers and 3,643 NCOs and sailors. By the end of the year it had 340 officers and 5,785 NCOs and sailors. If the full 18,000 men of the Greek Navy are evacuated, then the Allies gain a lot of trained naval personel. Moreover, many more transports could have been saved, further increasing the available tonnage in the Mediterranean.
In Egypt a battalion has been already formed by local Greeks. By this time, the Evros Brigade of 3 infantry battalions has been interned in Turkey and will find its way to Egypt as in OTL. These 4 battalions formed the manpower for the 1st Greek Brigade. By November 1941 a 5th infantry battalion was formed from escapees from Greece (there were basically no greek escapees from the Battle of Crete). By early 1942, 3,912 men from the greek diaspora in Egypt, Palestine and Sudan had joined the greek forces. By February 1943 the Greek Army had around 11,000 men in two brigades.
Now in TTL, there are 3 additional sources of manpower: the formations saved from the front, the 50,000 green recruits, the ~11,000 National Guard volunteers from Crete (capable only to act as garrison troops in Crete) and some other units lost in OTL in Crete (e.g. the Cadet School). From what I have read in the timeline so far 8 infantry divisions (I,II, III, V, XI, XII, XIII, XX), 1 Cavalry Division and 1 Infantry Brigade (21st attached to the Cavalry) may be saved. Certainly there will be a discrepancy in the manpower of each formation. The XII and XX divisions will be sorry remnants. The V division will be the strongest since it had received additional reservists in early spring and at April 20th it had just over 20,000 men (some Cretans from other units flocked at it during the retreat). The rest of the divisions will have a reduced power of 10-20% if we judge by the OTL experience. If the XII and XX are disbanded to fill up the rest of the divisions, there can be 6 Infantry Divisions and the Cavalry/21st Brigade (waiting for tanks and training to be turned into an armoured division). If the V "Cretan" Division with its 20k men and the Cretan National Guard (11k men) form the garrison of Crere after the initial battle (if it takes place at all), it leaves the equivalent of a small field army for the Allies to play with. This field army will have access to at least 61k men as replacements. I say at least, because with Crete in Allied hands, there will be a greater tickle of men and officers escaping the brutal occupation of the mainland.
Where am I getting at? Certainly it will be some time until all these greek troops are re-organized and trained to mechanized warfare. In any case they will be very useful in the years to come. However, in the short-term, a portion of these troops can be utilized as garrison troops in Egypt, Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. The OTL garrisons could be freed to used in other theaters. If e.g. British and Commonwealth policy makers want to send an additional infantry division in Malaya at October 1941, they will have the ability to do so. If you have to house and retrain so many pesky Greeks in Palestine - most of them veterans, surely there is no need for the 1st Cavalry Division staying there in order to transition to the 10th Armoured. There may be an imperial backwater to send the division to be formed and reassure the Australians.
After all, there is finite infrastructure in the Levant that cannot support both the Greek Army and that many Commonwealth forces. It makes perfect sense to me, that saving a portion of the Greek Army in April 1941 can result to an additional corps in Malaya in November 1941. Talking about butterflies, huh ?
In OTL, the ships that escaped to Egypt were 1 armoured cruiser, 6 destroyers, 3 torpedo boats, 5 submarines, 1 repair ship and 3 transports. At January 1st 1942 the Greek Navy-in-exile had 241 officers and 3,643 NCOs and sailors. By the end of the year it had 340 officers and 5,785 NCOs and sailors. If the full 18,000 men of the Greek Navy are evacuated, then the Allies gain a lot of trained naval personel. Moreover, many more transports could have been saved, further increasing the available tonnage in the Mediterranean.
In Egypt a battalion has been already formed by local Greeks. By this time, the Evros Brigade of 3 infantry battalions has been interned in Turkey and will find its way to Egypt as in OTL. These 4 battalions formed the manpower for the 1st Greek Brigade. By November 1941 a 5th infantry battalion was formed from escapees from Greece (there were basically no greek escapees from the Battle of Crete). By early 1942, 3,912 men from the greek diaspora in Egypt, Palestine and Sudan had joined the greek forces. By February 1943 the Greek Army had around 11,000 men in two brigades.
Now in TTL, there are 3 additional sources of manpower: the formations saved from the front, the 50,000 green recruits, the ~11,000 National Guard volunteers from Crete (capable only to act as garrison troops in Crete) and some other units lost in OTL in Crete (e.g. the Cadet School). From what I have read in the timeline so far 8 infantry divisions (I,II, III, V, XI, XII, XIII, XX), 1 Cavalry Division and 1 Infantry Brigade (21st attached to the Cavalry) may be saved. Certainly there will be a discrepancy in the manpower of each formation. The XII and XX divisions will be sorry remnants. The V division will be the strongest since it had received additional reservists in early spring and at April 20th it had just over 20,000 men (some Cretans from other units flocked at it during the retreat). The rest of the divisions will have a reduced power of 10-20% if we judge by the OTL experience. If the XII and XX are disbanded to fill up the rest of the divisions, there can be 6 Infantry Divisions and the Cavalry/21st Brigade (waiting for tanks and training to be turned into an armoured division). If the V "Cretan" Division with its 20k men and the Cretan National Guard (11k men) form the garrison of Crere after the initial battle (if it takes place at all), it leaves the equivalent of a small field army for the Allies to play with. This field army will have access to at least 61k men as replacements. I say at least, because with Crete in Allied hands, there will be a greater tickle of men and officers escaping the brutal occupation of the mainland.
Where am I getting at? Certainly it will be some time until all these greek troops are re-organized and trained to mechanized warfare. In any case they will be very useful in the years to come. However, in the short-term, a portion of these troops can be utilized as garrison troops in Egypt, Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. The OTL garrisons could be freed to used in other theaters. If e.g. British and Commonwealth policy makers want to send an additional infantry division in Malaya at October 1941, they will have the ability to do so. If you have to house and retrain so many pesky Greeks in Palestine - most of them veterans, surely there is no need for the 1st Cavalry Division staying there in order to transition to the 10th Armoured. There may be an imperial backwater to send the division to be formed and reassure the Australians.
After all, there is finite infrastructure in the Levant that cannot support both the Greek Army and that many Commonwealth forces. It makes perfect sense to me, that saving a portion of the Greek Army in April 1941 can result to an additional corps in Malaya in November 1941. Talking about butterflies, huh ?
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Just to have the main division structures in place as a base for reinforcement by trainees and diaspora would be huge: trained cores, fighting experience, with unit morale and heraldry. All those things will immediately make those units exponentially more capable than OTL rebuilding from scratch.
Most of these were shore personnel, but at the very least it reduces the need to recruit from amongst merchant marine crews which were uhm... politically unreliable as seen in spring 1944. Put another way the fleet in exile peaked up in 1944 to 8,500 men with 1 armoured cruiser, 7 destroyers, 5 destroyer escorts, 4 frigates, 4 submarines, 3 LST, 3 torpedo boats, 1 sub chaser and 14 minesweepers, with 4,245 men crewing ships. So TTL you can have anything up to twice this...
I would put it somewhat differently. To stick to French experience the Americans, who after all will be doing most of the rearming will be counting about 40000 men per division, the French finally got 8 divisions with 260,000 men and 87 battalions going and for each division a 20% of reserve in manpower was required to cover casualties. Soo if TTL Greek manpower is ~130-180,000, this means a field army of about 110-150,000 men. That's 4-5 divisions. Hugely stronger than OTL of course but we are talking about an upper limit of two corps IMO.
To
Two additional corps of pissed off Greek troops in the Mediterranean Theatre is a big deal vs OTL.... 👍
Two additional corps of pissed off Greek troops in the Mediterranean Theatre is a big deal vs OTL.... 👍
You are right. But I do believe that the field army will be in the upper limit of your estimation, at 140-150k men. The garrison of Crete doesn't need a 20% reserve in prime-age manpower, as it has the National Guard made up with older reservists. These reservists are basically veterans and come from a warlike population. Moreover, each year there will be a new crop of green local recruits of the 1942, 1943 etc classes.
So, a 5 division field-army it is. Still a good addition to the Mediterranean Theater in the long term. And in the short term, an excellent garrison for the Levant while they retrain. At first they can be given old equipment, captured italian equipment and so on. It will suffice to act as garrison in the short term.
Long-term - or at least two to three years down the line - the Turks might be looking at a bigger, better organized, Greek army than the Original Timeline and feeling more under pressure than in the original timeline to demonstrate their usefulness to the Allies so as to actually have a seat at the victors' table when it comes to stuff like potential redrawing of borders and the like...
A Greece which is involved in an epic fighting retreat against the Germans in 1941, never loses Crete, and strikes back heavily against the Axis late in the war might be much valued and lauded in the United Nations. (Possibly even a potential permanent security council member??? I think Churchill might like it.)
But that is as of yet a way off in the future.
A Greece which is involved in an epic fighting retreat against the Germans in 1941, never loses Crete, and strikes back heavily against the Axis late in the war might be much valued and lauded in the United Nations. (Possibly even a potential permanent security council member??? I think Churchill might like it.)
But that is as of yet a way off in the future.
Don't think a permanent security council seat is likely, but Greece will be better off than OTL, especially since they had a fighting retreat, never lost Crete, and is likely to strike back against the Axis--this will also increase the credibility of the Greek government, and might lessen the subsequent Greek Civil War (if not avert it entirely)...
IIRC, though the US were almost entirely responsible for rearming the Free French, the British equipped the other exiled forces. Granted, most were not as big as the Greek forces ITTL may end up being, but it still may end up organized along British lines rather than American.
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A permanent security council position is not in the cards, why not one for Poland as well? But the Greek territorial claims at the peace conference against Bulgaria and Albania are likely quite a bit stronger and most likely so is the push for early union of Greece with Cyprus, after all there were British foreign office proposals to that end in 1946 while Churcill had always been sympathetic, he had first proposed as much as early as 1913...
Also becomes someone else's problem as even at that point the time bomb was obvious. Just keeping the sovereign base areas and letting Greece deal with the mess of a likely inter religious conflict sounds like the kind of plan the UK would support.
Other than Malta (which wants to stay with the Empire/commonwealth) Britain has no reason to stay in the Med once India goes (which even Churchill will eventually have to accept) so get shot early and avoid one more colonial conflict.
Moreover, the Royal Navy and the RAF will spend the war operating from Souda Bay and its nearby airfields. The importance of this base will become practical and not just theoretical. I can see policy makers to give their blessing for a Union if it means that Souda can be used as a base even after the war- in addition to the cypriot airfields. When it comes to power projection and imperial defence, Souda/Maleme & Cypriot bases trump keeping Cyprus as a colony.
It goes without saying that there is almost no chance for Germans capturing Crete under TTL circumstances. Between this POD and preserving the Greek Army, the Greek Civil War is butterflied. The greek government will be seen as much more reliable partner.
It goes without saying that there is almost no chance for Germans capturing Crete under TTL circumstances. Between this POD and preserving the Greek Army, the Greek Civil War is butterflied. The greek government will be seen as much more reliable partner.
The British had equipped the Free French for the first three years. The Americans equipped the ex Vichy French who then were joined with the Free French leading to several incidents between the two when the Free French were forced to stop using British uniforms and arms and dress like the ex Vichy forces. This is somewhat of a taboo subject in France for discussion as it is still a sensitive issue.
Later, after Overlord, the French Amy essentially manned the kit intended for further US divisions so these did not need to come from the USA.
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