Very nice! I wonder what is the equivalent of Poland in this timeline? IE a formal member of the allies that gets stranded in the first parts of the conflict? Or is there no analogue? Also, what OTL country is China supposed to represent?This is an attempt by me of a "Reversed WW2 scenario." To be specific, it's a cover of a proposal made by rvbomally a while ago on the old Oneshot Thread. The main flips are America/Germany, Britain/Italy, and Russia/Japan. It also takes influence from his own "Reverse WW2" maps. The main text for the map will be edited in later.
EDIT: Here is the text:
-The first real member of the Axis would be the British. Having been on something of a downward spiral since the rise of Germany and the US, it was no surprise when the British lost in the one front war against the Dual Alliance of Germany and Italy. This defeat would lead to the rise of the Vehemance Party, a party which espoused a radical new ideology of it's party name. While the first of it's kind and an inspiration to it's big brother America, the British Army has definitely seen better days. Performance in Africa and the Middle East was alright, but their performance in the invasion of France and Germany has been laughable at best, and has forced the Americans to divert several of their troops to help.
-The United States sees a Progressive victory in the 1912 election, leading to the US joining in the Great War on two fronts in 1915. While the pacific front against Japan sees Japan break when a mutiny erupts into a full scale civil war, things go worse in the European front as the US army proves just as unprepared as the rest of Europe. This break in isolation leading to failure sees an uprising at home, which culminates in a defeat for the Allies, including the US, which forces President Roosevelt to resign in favor of his VP. The US sees an economic downturn as a result of the failure that sees the rise of radical third parties. One of these parties, the National Ascendancy Party, falls under the tutelage of war veteran Jud Hammond, who manages to win the party domination of Congress, and eventually the presidency. The result would be the transformation of the United States into the authoritarian and militarized "Greater American Nation."
Unlike his British counterpart, Hammond's Americanized version of the Vehemance ideology has strong racial and religious tones. Anti-communism is a large part. Catholics, Jews, Mormons, and other non-protestant religious denominations are treated as foreign agents that seek to undermined America. Labor Camps have already been set up for dissidents as well as those who are considered subhuman. Those who have it worst are those considered non-white by Hammond's regime. Asians have seen a large amount of hatred, especially after the regime began it's war in the Pacific with Eastasia. The Conquest of South America and the Pacific, as part of Hammond's dream of "manifest destiny," has seen major resistance, although collaborators have popped up. While they are starting to slow down in the Pacific and are spreading themselves thin in Europe, the US has successfully secured an American Empire across the New World, and it's likely that Hammond's new order may see a limited victory.
-Eastasia was a product of the Great War. Japan saw a quick rise, only for it all to fall down when they lost against Russia in 1905, seeing their desired sphere go down. An attempt to regain glory saw them join the Central Powers. While they saw success against China (largely due to the Qing forces being far worse off), they saw no real success in the Pacific against the United States, with Japanese forces being slaughtered in Alaska and the Philippines. The repeated failures lead to an unexpected revolution lead by the Japanese Workers Movement that saw the establishment of the worlds first communist state. After retaking the home islands, the newly formed Union of Eastasia would expand to take several colonies in the far east as their overlords back home fell in the chaos of the Great War.
Eastasia would soon fall under the rule of General Secretary Sakamoto(1), who went about turning Eastasia into a totalitarian state. While he would build up the glory of Japan in his "great leap forward", he would also create a cult of personality that would rival that of the old Emperors. Furthermore, Sakamoto would engage in several purges of society, throwing many into prison camps as well as instilling fear with his "Guardians of the Revolution." While the goal was to make Eastasia into a world state, Sakamoto has opted for a foreign policy more akin to the old shogunate. To the surprise of many, Eastasia and America would form a non-aggression pact that divided the Pacific amongst themselves, which Sakamoto used as the opportunity to take desired territories in the Pacific, as well as seize the rest of Indonesia(2). However, this was not to last. Hammond craved the territory that Eastasia controlled, and the Eastasian's communism combined with Hammond's delusions made Eastasia the main target of Hammond's nationalism, and so the US went to war, starting with the surprise invasion of Eastasian Hawaii, which resulted in Eastasia joining the Allied powers.
Initially, many native hawaiians saw the Americans as liberators, only for American racial policy to flip them back to the Eastasian side and starting a partisan war on the islands. While the Peoples Navy was initially devestated and outmatched by the more modern American fleet(3), they are beginning to rebuild and hold the line against American Forces in the South Pacific. And where the navy fails, Eastasia has a lot of fanatical conscripts willing to give their lives for glorious Eastasia in the hellish jungle islands against American troops.
-Italy was a fascinating country. While initially embarrased by there performance in Ethiopia in the 1890s, Italy would see great reform and victory in the Great War, seeing domination over Africa and the Middle East. Of course, with Germany taking a day off, Italy had to do a lot of running in the post war order, and tha includes befriending a lot of newly independent colonies like India as well as occupying a lot of territory that the Germans were unwilling to help with. Now they are holding the line alongside the French against the Axis invasion of France due to German reluctance to enter the war again, with the Prime Minister invoking the Roman Phalanx, announcing that Italy shall never surrender! However, with German entry into the war, it looks like things may change for the better. Good timeing too, as Italian forces are becoming more and more depleted.
-The Russian Empire is the other main axis power. Russia saw a rise in the 19th century that largely arose after victories against the Ottomans and Japan. After participating with the Dual Alliance and gaining even more, Russia gained a desire for more. The Great Depression hit Russia particularly hard, and saw a rise in extreme nationalism, especially in the Russian military. The Russians first invaded their age old punching bag in the Turkish Republic, which was ignored by most of the world, but saw widespread condemnation when word of their atrocities got out, resulting in their expulsion from the League of Nations. Using a strong amount of crusader rhetoric mixed with old school knight honor and absolutism, the Russian army has justified this abhorrent behavior amongst it's enlisted. The German Federation was particularly mirked at Russian activity in the Balkans and cut off trade with Russia. While rich with resources, Russian industry was underdeveloped and reliant on imports, meaning the embargoes hit Russia particularly hard.
Given the choice between withdrawing and looking weak or expanding their war to Eastern Europe, Russia chose war and opened their declaration with an invasion of Scandinavia. The push through Eastern Europe goes well as German troops are disorganized, but their rhetoric of liberation has failed to win many over, with Russian brutality only inspiring more resistance, and gradually their advance is being halted. It appears that the Russian hope of quickly blitzing Germanies eastern lands and scaring them into re-opening their markets won't be happening any time soon. On the homefront, the Military has a large amount of power, with the Tsar's advisers and the Orthodox Church largely being subordinate to the army commanders. Most of this is due to the young and rather fragile Tsar Alexei not having as much power as his forefathers did, largely keeping to himself in his palace and being uninterested in foreign affairs, or whatever nasty CW his forces are using in his name, but also having a strong fondness for said military.
-The Germans are probably the most powerful of the Allies. Formed in 1870 under liberals rather than the conservative Prussian leadership, the German Federation proved to be a liberal republic. While liberal at home, the German Federation did pick up on Bismarck's foreign policy of balancing the great powers. After it's victory in the Great War, Germany continued this foreign policy until Russia attacked and Britain invaded France. The Russian advance has seen Germany rearm quickly, and resulted in the military taking large amounts of power away from the civilian government. German industry is some of the finest in the world, and with it's great engineering and weapons, the tide is already being turned in Europe. The germans are taking a west first approach, hoping to push the Anglos out of France before turning to take out the considerable Russian forces in the East.
-The Turks had been humiliated over the course of the 19th century, but losing to Russia again, some would say, was the final straw. The 1911 Revolution did away with the Sultan, and a shaky republic was put in place. However, the current leadership is highly corrupt and struggling to win over the peasantry from the Communists in the countryside. This civil war was put on pause when the Russians invaded. It started in 1931 with a Russian intervention in the East that saw a puppet monarchy carved out of Armenia, a full scale invasion would occur in 1937. Millions have been killed as the Russians pour everything they have into breaking the Turks, but they do nothing but stiffen the Turks resolve to keep Russia out. The Turks are divided, poorly equipped, and lose the majority of engagements against the Russians, The will to stay free is a strong one. Initially the Turks were supported by the Americans as well as the Sympathetic Germans, but with the American alliance with Russia, the Turks are now firmly in the allied camp.
(1) TL 191 After the End reference.
(2) Before 1939, they only controlled Malaya.
(3) Not to mention the suicide attacks by battleships on their last line.
Map Thread XXI
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The Poland analog is kinda vague. The US invasion of Mexico starts WW2 like the Invasion of Poland did IOTL, but they also play France. Hawaii plays the role of Soviet-occupied Poland though.
China is the Turkey analog.
Thanks! I noticed that Turkey plays the role of China but somehow I didn't grasp that it works both ways. Now it seems pretty obvious.
As for Poland, I think that this TL's Mexico fits the role pretty well. On the other hand, this TL's Poland seems to be a pretty accurate representation of OTL Korea. Am I right?
I didn't really have a Korea analog in mind for this scenario tbh. I guess that the Korea analog would be in the caucasus to make the geography fit.
This is one good looking map.
Jambi’s flag deserves to get clowned on. Also, you know what this map is missing?Indonesian Madagascar
What’s the difference between Provinsi and Republik?
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Would this (alternate geography) be enough for a successful Northwest Passage?
This is roughly taken from Earth98's North America. Also the dark green is Vinland
The sea ice at the top would be the issue. Also a surviving Vinland is cool.
This is awesome. Literally the only change I'd make is putting the flags in alphabetical order because the next comment was about Jambi's flag and I cannot for the life of me find it.
Regards,
Northstar
Oh wait, did you guys think this is my flag? It isn’t. It was on an ALT history discord. I don’t know the source. Will reverse image search it this afternoon.
no cuz it has to be an ice-free shortcut to Asia. Who is going to want to sail through this?
To expand on @vgh...'s point, I feel that an ideal(ish) Northwest Passage would cut from Hudson's Bay to somewhere in British Columbia, or maybe Washington State.
Europe of the Stettin-TL with former Iron Curtain in yellow.
As you can see, in this TL the borders between Austria and the Czech Republic are different, because after WWI German Austria and Czechoslovakia agreed to draw the borders approximately along the linguistic boundary in both southern Bohemia and southern Moravia. Furthermore German Austria could keep the German-speaking areas in OTL Slovenia, including Marburg an der Drau (slov. Maribor). But in exchange Austria had to concede Felsőőrvidék/Burgenland to Hungary and Austria had to stay completely neutral. In the 60s, Italy got a very left-wing government, which decided to hold a plebiscite in South Tyrol about its future belonging to either Italy or Austria. More than 90% voted for Austria. So at the end of the 60s, South Tyrol got officially ceded by Austria. Since that event, the Italians never trusted left-winged parties anymore.
After WWI, the treaty of Trianon was a bit fairer to Hungary. Hungary could not only keep Felsőőrvidék, but also the Hungarian majority-Felvidék (OTL southern Slovakia), the border with Roumania got drawn a little more eastern, so that Nagyvárad (Oradea) stayed within the Hungarian borders, as well as the northern third of Vajdaság (Voivodina) including Szabadka and Zombor and the Muravidék with Muraszombat.
The borders of Turkey have also been drawn differently after the first world war - especially it could keep less of eastern Thracia.
After WWII, Germany had to cede the counties (Landkreise) of Glatz and Halberschwerdt, as well as a few villages south of Leobschütz (Głubczyce) and Katscher (Kietrz) to Czechoslovakia. Also after WWII, the Italian city of Triest has been given to Yugoslavia.
Within the Soviet Union, the borders between the SSRs (at least in Europe) have been drawn differently, more or less based on more historical borders, but "amended". The Moldavian SSR has an actual coast here. Crimea has also never been given to the Ukrainian SSR. A Kertch brigde was build in the late 70s already.
The Nagorno-Karabakh conflinct went off very differently, making Azerbaijan the "bad guys" here, who began all the thing. Armenia is much more victorious than in OTL - also getting (secret) little help from both Greece and Iran. Armenia fully annexed Nagorno-Karabakh and the Link in 1994. Nakhichevan became something like an Armenian puppet state. Since Armenia is closely allied with Russia, Azerbaijan officially gave up its claims in 2009. Turkey never intervened in the conflict and also never officially allied with Azerbaijan, because it feared a war with Russia as a result.
Cyprus never got invaded by Turkey after the Brits left the Island.
Belarus envolved to a typical former-east bloc-republic like Poland, Hungary, Czech Rep., Lithuania, etc. - Lukanshenko didn't become president in 1994 (nor later). Belarus joined EU in 2008, but other than its western neighbours, Belarus didn't join NATO.
Ukraine envolved very similar to OTL until 2013, but with failed Euromaidan. Since then, the country driftet into a (isulated) dictatorship, similar to OTL Belarus. But here, Yanukovych('s Ukraine) is not backed by Russia. At least not very much.
After its independence, Moldavia very soon (in 1992) became a socialist dictatorship by coup. In 2004 - after massive countrywide protests - elections were hold and Moldavia became a western-orientated democracy. The Russian-speaking Transnistria became an autonomous area within Moldavia. The cyrillic alphabet stayed official and a reunion with Romania was rejected.
In late 2004, Vladimir Putin, Dmitry Medvedev and other politicans of the Russian government died after an airplane crash in Slovakia. Since then, Russia followed a policy, resulting in a more "western-friendly" way (much more western-friendly than in OTL), but still being "its own thing". The relations between the US/NATO states and Russia are much more normal. Also there was never a Russo-Georgian war here. Also Russia never attacked Ukraine in this TL.
There was never an islamic revolution in Iran. The country is still a shahdom. There were some big reforms during the 80s and today is a wondeful example of a western-style state in the middle east. Also equal opportunities for women are a surprisingly big thing here.
Since the Arab Spring had no success in this TL (only Tunisia made some lukewarm smaller reforms) and especially there were never (or not that massive) civil wars in Syria and Lybia, the 2015-refugee desaster did not happen in these proportions like in OTL. If it will happen, it will have been much much milder.
Also - as in all my TLs - there was never a Covid 19 going to be happen.
This is also part of this TL.
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Wow Ukraine with Starodub but no Luhansk or Crimea. Moldavia also never lost its northern nib Kmelnetsi(?) which is an interesting change I don't think I've seen before.
Europe of the Stettin-TL with former Iron Curtain in yellow.
As you can see, in this TL the borders between Austria and the Czech Republic are different, because after WWI German Austria and Czechoslovakia agreed to draw the borders approximately along the linguistic boundary in both southern Bohemia and southern Moravia. Furthermore German Austria could keep the German-speaking areas in OTL Slovenia, including Marburg an der Drau (slov. Maribor). But in exchange Austria had to concede Felsőőrvidék/Burgenland to Hungary and Austria had to stay completely neutral. In the 60s, Italy got a very left-wing government, which decided to hold a plebiscite in South Tyrol about its future belonging to either Italy or Austria. More than 90% voted for Austria. So at the end of the 60s, South Tyrol got officially ceded by Austria. Since that event, the Italians never trusted left-winged parties anymore.
After WWI, the treaty of Trianon was a bit fairer to Hungary. Hungary could not only keep Felsőőrvidék, but also the Hungarian majority-Felvidék (OTL southern Slovakia), the border with Roumania got drawn a little more eastern, so that Nagyvárad (Oradea) stayed within the Hungarian borders, as well as the northern third of Vajdaság (Voivodina) including Szabadka and Zombor and the Muravidék with Muraszombat.
The borders of Turkey have also been drawn differently after the first world war - especially it could keep less of eastern Thracia.
After WWII, Germany had to cede the counties (Landkreise) of Glatz and Halberschwerdt, as well as a few villages south of Leobschütz (Głubczyce) and Katscher (Kietrz) to Czechoslovakia. Also after WWII, the Italian city of Triest has been given to Yugoslavia.
Within the Soviet Union, the borders between the SSRs (at least in Europe) have been drawn differently, more or less based on more historical borders, but "amended". The Moldavian SSR has an actual coast here. Crimea has also never been given to the Ukrainian SSR. A Kertch brigde was build in the late 70s already.
The Nagorno-Karabakh conflinct went off very differently, making Azerbaijan the "bad guys" here, who began all the thing. Armenia is much more victorious than in OTL - also getting (secret) little help from both Greece and Iran. Armenia fully annexed Nagorno-Karabakh and the Link in 1994. Nakhichevan became something like an Armenian puppet state. Since Armenia is closely allied with Russia, Azerbaijan officially gave up its claims in 2009. Turkey never intervened in the conflict and also never officially allied with Azerbaijan, because it feared a war with Russia as a result.
Cyprus never got invaded by Turkey after the Brits left the Island.
Belarus envolved to a typical former-east bloc-republic like Poland, Hungary, Czech Rep., Lithuania, etc. - Lukanshenko didn't become president in 1994 (nor later). Belarus joined EU in 2008, but other than its western neighbours, Belarus didn't join NATO.
Ukraine envolved very similar to OTL until 2013, but with failed Euromaidan. Since then, the country driftet into a (isulated) dictatorship, similar to OTL Belarus. But here, Yanukovych('s Ukraine) is not backed by Russia. At least not very much.
After its independence, Moldavia very soon (in 1992) became a socialist dictatorship by coup. In 2004 - after massive countrywide protests - elections were hold and Moldavia became a western-orientated democracy. The Russian-speaking Transnistria became an autonomous area within Moldavia. The cyrillic alphabet stayed official and a reunion with Romania was rejected.
In late 2004, Vladimir Putin, Dmitry Medvedev and other politicans of the Russian government died after an airplane crash in Slovakia. Since then, Russia followed a policy, resulting in a more "western-friendly" way (much more western-friendly than in OTL), but still being "its own thing". The relations between the US/NATO states and Russia are much more normal. Also there was never a Russo-Georgian war here. Also Russia never attacked Ukraine in this TL.
There was never an islamic revolution in Iran. The country is still a shahdom. There were some big reforms during the 80s and today is a wondeful example of a western-style state in the middle east. Also equal opportunities for women are a surprisingly big thing here.
Since the Arab Spring had no success in this TL (only Tunisia made some lukewarm smaller reforms) and especially there were never (or not that massive) civil wars in Syria and Lybia, the 2015-refugee desaster did not happen in these proportions like in OTL. If it will happen, it will have been much much milder.
Also - as in all my TLs - there was never a Covid 19 going to be happen.
This is also part of this TL.
Also not sure if giving Budjak to Moldavia is a good idea, given the area had a LOT of Ukrainians (although that never stopped Stalin before lol)
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What about the little state around Szczecin?
Europe of the Stettin-TL with former Iron Curtain in yellow.
As you can see, in this TL the borders between Austria and the Czech Republic are different, because after WWI German Austria and Czechoslovakia agreed to draw the borders approximately along the linguistic boundary in both southern Bohemia and southern Moravia. Furthermore German Austria could keep the German-speaking areas in OTL Slovenia, including Marburg an der Drau (slov. Maribor). But in exchange Austria had to concede Felsőőrvidék/Burgenland to Hungary and Austria had to stay completely neutral. In the 60s, Italy got a very left-wing government, which decided to hold a plebiscite in South Tyrol about its future belonging to either Italy or Austria. More than 90% voted for Austria. So at the end of the 60s, South Tyrol got officially ceded by Austria. Since that event, the Italians never trusted left-winged parties anymore.
After WWI, the treaty of Trianon was a bit fairer to Hungary. Hungary could not only keep Felsőőrvidék, but also the Hungarian majority-Felvidék (OTL southern Slovakia), the border with Roumania got drawn a little more eastern, so that Nagyvárad (Oradea) stayed within the Hungarian borders, as well as the northern third of Vajdaság (Voivodina) including Szabadka and Zombor and the Muravidék with Muraszombat.
The borders of Turkey have also been drawn differently after the first world war - especially it could keep less of eastern Thracia.
After WWII, Germany had to cede the counties (Landkreise) of Glatz and Halberschwerdt, as well as a few villages south of Leobschütz (Głubczyce) and Katscher (Kietrz) to Czechoslovakia. Also after WWII, the Italian city of Triest has been given to Yugoslavia.
Within the Soviet Union, the borders between the SSRs (at least in Europe) have been drawn differently, more or less based on more historical borders, but "amended". The Moldavian SSR has an actual coast here. Crimea has also never been given to the Ukrainian SSR. A Kertch brigde was build in the late 70s already.
The Nagorno-Karabakh conflinct went off very differently, making Azerbaijan the "bad guys" here, who began all the thing. Armenia is much more victorious than in OTL - also getting (secret) little help from both Greece and Iran. Armenia fully annexed Nagorno-Karabakh and the Link in 1994. Nakhichevan became something like an Armenian puppet state. Since Armenia is closely allied with Russia, Azerbaijan officially gave up its claims in 2009. Turkey never intervened in the conflict and also never officially allied with Azerbaijan, because it feared a war with Russia as a result.
Cyprus never got invaded by Turkey after the Brits left the Island.
Belarus envolved to a typical former-east bloc-republic like Poland, Hungary, Czech Rep., Lithuania, etc. - Lukanshenko didn't become president in 1994 (nor later). Belarus joined EU in 2008, but other than its western neighbours, Belarus didn't join NATO.
Ukraine envolved very similar to OTL until 2013, but with failed Euromaidan. Since then, the country driftet into a (isulated) dictatorship, similar to OTL Belarus. But here, Yanukovych('s Ukraine) is not backed by Russia. At least not very much.
After its independence, Moldavia very soon (in 1992) became a socialist dictatorship by coup. In 2004 - after massive countrywide protests - elections were hold and Moldavia became a western-orientated democracy. The Russian-speaking Transnistria became an autonomous area within Moldavia. The cyrillic alphabet stayed official and a reunion with Romania was rejected.
In late 2004, Vladimir Putin, Dmitry Medvedev and other politicans of the Russian government died after an airplane crash in Slovakia. Since then, Russia followed a policy, resulting in a more "western-friendly" way (much more western-friendly than in OTL), but still being "its own thing". The relations between the US/NATO states and Russia are much more normal. Also there was never a Russo-Georgian war here. Also Russia never attacked Ukraine in this TL.
There was never an islamic revolution in Iran. The country is still a shahdom. There were some big reforms during the 80s and today is a wondeful example of a western-style state in the middle east. Also equal opportunities for women are a surprisingly big thing here.
Since the Arab Spring had no success in this TL (only Tunisia made some lukewarm smaller reforms) and especially there were never (or not that massive) civil wars in Syria and Lybia, the 2015-refugee desaster did not happen in these proportions like in OTL. If it will happen, it will have been much much milder.
Also - as in all my TLs - there was never a Covid 19 going to be happen.
This is also part of this TL.
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