Map Thread XXI
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I kind of doubt it, honestly: the Altoatesini are very keen on milking their specialness in Italy, reaping any and every benefit they can through their minority status. In Austria? They're just... more Austrians. No rebates, no exceptions, nothing. The fact that parties gunning for independence from Italy and annexation to Austria have never amounted to anything, even just in the provincial context, is telling.
I like, but man, if the American industry is anything like it is OTL, this is one hell of a dystopia...This is an attempt by me of a "Reversed WW2 scenario." To be specific, it's a cover of a proposal made by rvbomally a while ago on the old Oneshot Thread. The main flips are America/Germany, Britain/Italy, and Russia/Japan. It also takes influence from his own "Reverse WW2" maps. The main text for the map will be edited in later.
EDIT: Here is the text:
-The first real member of the Axis would be the British. Having been on something of a downward spiral since the rise of Germany and the US, it was no surprise when the British lost in the one front war against the Dual Alliance of Germany and Italy. This defeat would lead to the rise of the Vehemance Party, a party which espoused a radical new ideology of it's party name. The British Military is dominant now, seeing the old nobility as the reason to blame for Britains loss in the great war. While the first of it's kind and an inspiration to it's big brother America, the British Army has definitely seen better days. Performance in Africa and the Middle East was alright, but their performance in the invasion of France and Germany has been laughable at best, and has forced the Americans to divert several of their troops to help.
-The United States sees a Progressive victory in the 1912 election, leading to the US joining in the Great War on two fronts in 1915. While the pacific front against Japan sees Japan break when a mutiny erupts into a full scale civil war, things go worse in the European front as the US army proves just as unprepared as the rest of Europe. This break in isolation leading to failure sees an uprising at home, which culminates in a defeat for the Allies, including the US, which forces President Roosevelt to resign in favor of his VP. The US sees an economic downturn as a result of the failure that sees the rise of radical third parties. One of these parties, the National Ascendancy Party, falls under the tutelage of war veteran Jud Hammond, who manages to win the party domination of Congress, and eventually the presidency. The result would be the transformation of the United States into the authoritarian and militarized "Greater American Nation."
Unlike his British counterpart, Hammond's Americanized version of the Vehemance ideology has strong racial and religious tones. Anti-communism is a large part. Catholics, Jews, Mormons, and other non-protestant religious denominations are treated as foreign agents that seek to undermined America, but Jews especially are a target oh Hammond's hate. Labor Camps have already been set up for dissidents as well as those who are considered subhuman. Those who have it worst are those considered non-white by Hammond's regime. Asians have seen a large amount of hatred, especially after the regime began it's war in the Pacific with Eastasia. The Conquest of South America and the Pacific, as part of Hammond's dream of "manifest destiny," has seen major resistance, although collaborators have popped up. While they are starting to slow down in the Pacific and are spreading themselves thin in Europe, the US has successfully secured an American Empire across the New World, and it's likely that Hammond's new order may see a limited victory.
-Eastasia was a product of the Great War. Japan saw a quick rise, only for it all to fall down when they lost against Russia in 1905, seeing their desired sphere go down. An attempt to regain glory saw them join the Central Powers. While they saw success against China (largely due to the Qing forces being far worse off), they saw no real success in the Pacific against the United States, with Japanese forces being slaughtered in Alaska and the Philippines. The repeated failures lead to an unexpected revolution lead by the Japanese Workers Movement that saw the establishment of the worlds first communist state. After retaking the home islands, the newly formed Union of Eastasia would expand to take several colonies in the far east as their overlords back home fell in the chaos of the Great War.
Eastasia would soon fall under the rule of General Secretary Sakamoto(1), who went about turning Eastasia into a totalitarian state. While he would build up the glory of Japan in his "great leap forward", he would also create a cult of personality that would rival that of the old Emperors. Furthermore, Sakamoto would engage in several purges of society, throwing many into prison camps as well as instilling fear with his "Guardians of the Revolution." While the goal was to make Eastasia into a world state, Sakamoto has opted for a foreign policy more akin to the old shogunate, and while he claims all in Eastasia are equal, in truth it is the Japanese who remain dominant. To the surprise of many, Eastasia and America would form a non-aggression pact that divided the Pacific amongst themselves, which Sakamoto used as the opportunity to take desired territories in the Pacific, as well as seize the rest of Indonesia(2). However, this was not to last. Hammond craved the territory that Eastasia controlled, and the Eastasian's communism combined with Hammond's delusions made Eastasia the main target of Hammond's nationalism, and so the US went to war, starting with the surprise invasion of Eastasian Hawaii, which resulted in Eastasia joining the Allied powers.
Initially, many native hawaiians saw the Americans as liberators, only for American racial policy to flip them back to the Eastasian side and starting a partisan war on the islands. While the Peoples Navy was initially devestated and outmatched by the more modern American fleet(3), they are beginning to rebuild and hold the line against American Forces in the South Pacific. And where the navy fails, Eastasia has a lot of fanatical conscripts willing to give their lives for glorious Eastasia in the hellish jungle islands against American troops.
-Italy was a fascinating country. While initially embarrased by there performance in Ethiopia in the 1890s, Italy would see great reform and victory in the Great War, seeing domination over Africa and the Middle East. Of course, with Germany taking a day off, Italy had to do a lot of running in the post war order, and tha includes befriending a lot of newly independent colonies like India as well as occupying a lot of territory that the Germans were unwilling to help with. Now they are holding the line alongside the French against the Axis invasion of France due to German reluctance to enter the war again, with the Prime Minister invoking the Roman Phalanx, announcing that Italy shall never surrender! However, with German entry into the war, it looks like things may change for the better. Good timeing too, as Italian forces are becoming more and more depleted.
-The Russian Empire is the other main axis power. Russia saw a rise in the 19th century that largely arose after victories against the Ottomans and Japan. After participating with the Dual Alliance and gaining even more, Russia gained a desire for more. The Great Depression hit Russia particularly hard, and saw a rise in extreme nationalism, especially in the Russian military. The Russians first invaded their age old punching bag in the Turkish Republic, which was ignored by most of the world, but saw widespread condemnation when word of their atrocities got out, resulting in their expulsion from the League of Nations. Using a strong amount of crusader rhetoric mixed with old school knight honor and absolutism, the Russian army has justified this abhorrent behavior amongst it's enlisted. The old feudal idea of "Divine Right of Kings" is not only well and alive around the Tsar, but it is used to justify the Russian invasion of Turkey, citing Peter the Geats dying wish of retaking Constantinople. The German Federation was particularly mirked at Russian activity in the Balkans and cut off trade with Russia. While rich with resources, Russian industry was underdeveloped and reliant on imports, meaning the embargoes hit Russia particularly hard.
Given the choice between withdrawing and looking weak or expanding their war to Eastern Europe, Russia chose war and opened their declaration with an invasion of Scandinavia, followed by a massive push across Eastern Europe, with claims that they intend to liberate the region from the German boot. The push through Eastern Europe goes well as German troops are disorganized, but their rhetoric of liberation has failed to win many over, with Russian brutality only inspiring more resistance, and gradually their advance is being halted. It appears that the Russian hope of quickly blitzing Germanies eastern lands and scaring them into re-opening their markets won't be happening any time soon. On the homefront, the Military has a large amount of power, with the Tsar's advisers and the Orthodox Church largely being subordinate to the army commanders, although the church has been utilized heavily to keep order, alongside a strong heaping of anti-communist rhetoric. Most of this is due to the young and rather fragile Tsar Alexei not having as much power as his forefathers did, largely keeping to himself in his palace and being uninterested in foreign affairs, or whatever nasty CW his forces are using in his name, but also having a strong fondness for said military.
-The Germans are probably the most powerful of the Allies. Formed in 1870 under liberals rather than the conservative Prussian leadership, the German Federation proved to be a liberal republic. While liberal at home, the German Federation did pick up on Bismarck's foreign policy of balancing the great powers. After it's victory in the Great War, Germany continued this foreign policy until Russia attacked and Britain invaded France. The Russian advance has seen Germany rearm quickly, and resulted in the military taking large amounts of power away from the civilian government. German industry is some of the finest in the world, and with it's great engineering and weapons, the tide is already being turned in Europe. The germans are taking a west first approach, hoping to push the Anglos out of France before turning to take out the considerable Russian forces in the East.
-The Turks had been humiliated over the course of the 19th century, but losing to Russia again, some would say, was the final straw. The 1911 Revolution did away with the Sultan, and a shaky republic was put in place. However, the current leadership is highly corrupt and struggling to win over the peasantry from the Communists in the countryside. This civil war was put on pause when the Russians invaded. It started in 1931 with a Russian intervention in the East that saw a puppet monarchy carved out of Armenia, a full scale invasion would occur in 1937. Millions have been killed as the Russians pour everything they have into breaking the Turks, but they do nothing but stiffen the Turks resolve to keep Russia out. The Turks are divided, poorly equipped, and lose the majority of engagements against the Russians, The will to stay free is a strong one. Initially the Turks were supported by the Americans as well as the Sympathetic Germans, but with the American alliance with Russia, the Turks are now firmly in the allied camp.
(1) TL 191 After the End reference.
(2) Before 1939, they only controlled Malaya.
(3) Not to mention the suicide attacks by battleships on their last line.
(unless maybe the Germans can develop the bomb earlier - possible, what with less of a hare-brained ideology than OTL Nazis, and with US totalitarianism in turn likely stultifying intellectual freedom and scientific development, though I'm not sure if they can deliver it to America before they duplicate it and lock down the Western Hemisphere, probably.)Actually, that would be a pretty cool cold war scenario: democratic-capitalist German-led Europe, socialist Japanese-led east Asia, and a fascist Americas.
(Oh, and also, if you don't mind, do you know if there's any collected place for those "reverse WW2 scenarios"? I took a look through the Oneshot threads, but the lack of a index or something makes it a bit hard to find 'em, and AH.com's search functionality, well, you know the rest..)
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When posting someone else's image, you really should start with "This isn't mine, but I found it cool and wanted to share."
Otherwise folks tend to think you're plagiarizing.
No idea, but he followed up the map with this:
I was merely saying he should start with the disclaimer to as to avoid confusion.
Regardless, it is a badass map.
Important to note that Austria is, at least in terms of Russia intervening in Bulgaria, on the Russian side here ITTL. So likely they do get a seat at the table to draw borders. As does the UK for that matter, but they're more concerned about developments in North Africa/Egypt as a result of the war.
You can find them in this gallery here: https://www.deviantart.com/rvbomally/gallery/52944248/mirror-mirrorI like, but man, if the American industry is anything like it is OTL, this is one hell of a dystopia...
Actually, that would be a pretty cool cold war scenario: democratic-capitalist German-led Europe, socialist Japanese-led east Asia, and a fascist Americas.
(Oh, and also, if you don't mind, do you know if there's any collected place for those "reverse WW2 scenarios"? I took a look through the Oneshot threads, but the lack of a index or something makes it a bit hard to find 'em, and AH.com's search functionality, well, you know the rest..)
What a blessed timeline
Europe of the Stettin-TL with former Iron Curtain in yellow.
As you can see, in this TL the borders between Austria and the Czech Republic are different, because after WWI German Austria and Czechoslovakia agreed to draw the borders approximately along the linguistic boundary in both southern Bohemia and southern Moravia. Furthermore German Austria could keep the German-speaking areas in OTL Slovenia, including Marburg an der Drau (slov. Maribor). But in exchange Austria had to concede Felsőőrvidék/Burgenland to Hungary and Austria had to stay completely neutral. In the 60s, Italy got a very left-wing government, which decided to hold a plebiscite in South Tyrol about its future belonging to either Italy or Austria. More than 90% voted for Austria. So at the end of the 60s, South Tyrol got officially ceded by Austria. Since that event, the Italians never trusted left-winged parties anymore.
After WWI, the treaty of Trianon was a bit fairer to Hungary. Hungary could not only keep Felsőőrvidék, but also the Hungarian majority-Felvidék (OTL southern Slovakia), the border with Roumania got drawn a little more eastern, so that Nagyvárad (Oradea) stayed within the Hungarian borders, as well as the northern third of Vajdaság (Voivodina) including Szabadka and Zombor and the Muravidék with Muraszombat.
The borders of Turkey have also been drawn differently after the first world war - especially it could keep less of eastern Thracia.
After WWII, Germany had to cede the counties (Landkreise) of Glatz and Halberschwerdt, as well as a few villages south of Leobschütz (Głubczyce) and Katscher (Kietrz) to Czechoslovakia. Also after WWII, the Italian city of Triest has been given to Yugoslavia.
Within the Soviet Union, the borders between the SSRs (at least in Europe) have been drawn differently, more or less based on more historical borders, but "amended". The Moldavian SSR has an actual coast here. Crimea has also never been given to the Ukrainian SSR. A Kertch brigde was build in the late 70s already.
The Nagorno-Karabakh conflinct went off very differently, making Azerbaijan the "bad guys" here, who began all the thing. Armenia is much more victorious than in OTL - also getting (secret) little help from both Greece and Iran. Armenia fully annexed Nagorno-Karabakh and the Link in 1994. Nakhichevan became something like an Armenian puppet state. Since Armenia is closely allied with Russia, Azerbaijan officially gave up its claims in 2009. Turkey never intervened in the conflict and also never officially allied with Azerbaijan, because it feared a war with Russia as a result.
Cyprus never got invaded by Turkey after the Brits left the Island.
Belarus envolved to a typical former-east bloc-republic like Poland, Hungary, Czech Rep., Lithuania, etc. - Lukanshenko didn't become president in 1994 (nor later). Belarus joined EU in 2008, but other than its western neighbours, Belarus didn't join NATO.
Ukraine envolved very similar to OTL until 2013, but with failed Euromaidan. Since then, the country driftet into a (isulated) dictatorship, similar to OTL Belarus. But here, Yanukovych('s Ukraine) is not backed by Russia. At least not very much.
After its independence, Moldavia very soon (in 1992) became a socialist dictatorship by coup. In 2004 - after massive countrywide protests - elections were hold and Moldavia became a western-orientated democracy. The Russian-speaking Transnistria became an autonomous area within Moldavia. The cyrillic alphabet stayed official and a reunion with Romania was rejected.
In late 2004, Vladimir Putin, Dmitry Medvedev and other politicans of the Russian government died after an airplane crash in Slovakia. Since then, Russia followed a policy, resulting in a more "western-friendly" way (much more western-friendly than in OTL), but still being "its own thing". The relations between the US/NATO states and Russia are much more normal. Also there was never a Russo-Georgian war here. Also Russia never attacked Ukraine in this TL.
There was never an islamic revolution in Iran. The country is still a shahdom. There were some big reforms during the 80s and today is a wondeful example of a western-style state in the middle east. Also equal opportunities for women are a surprisingly big thing here.
Since the Arab Spring had no success in this TL (only Tunisia made some lukewarm smaller reforms) and especially there were never (or not that massive) civil wars in Syria and Lybia, the 2015-refugee desaster did not happen in these proportions like in OTL. If it will happen, it will have been much much milder.
Also - as in all my TLs - there was never a Covid 19 going to be happen.
This is also part of this TL.
Worse, from some of my friends that work there, Altoatesini are seen by austrian like someone of Milan will look at a Palermitan. Plus there is the question that the Italian constitution totally forbid this kind of referendum
But honestly i expect a scene like: Someone stop me somoeone stop otherwise i will go away nobody move Ehy i have said SOMEBODY STOP ME
Huh. Gotta wonder what that set of step-like lines from Wyoming to California is meant for. I assume something from the basemap, long ago. What was your idea behind the different colors for Anticosi and the islands near Ungava from everything else? Looks like the Dominion territory colors, though doesn’t seem the sort to match the orange of Canada or the dark pink of the British holdings here.
Jakarta is the temporary capital? Where they planning on having the new one be?
Surprised they didn’t try to wipe out the name Prussia, even if it did originate from long before the Germans.
Poland in this TL.
The border with Germany goes slightly more eastern - mostly along the Bober- and Oder rivers before hitting the trijuction with Stettin. Poland gets all of former East Prussia after WWII (except for a small area around and including the Königsberg harbour, annexed by the Soviet Union and given to Poland in 1989) and kept the cities of Grodno and Lwów, plus a few more square kilometers of the Białowieża primeval forest.
The city of Warsaw is also larger than in OTL - both in size and population.
FireCrispyHistory
Banned
If you read some previous posts, he admits that it was from a discord server.
Y'all thing the Mods read all 292 pages of thread when a report is made?
There is more than one reason that members are REQUIRED to give credit when making a post.
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