Looks nice, though I'd love to hear the story of the Turkish corridor through Armenia/Georgia to Azerbaijan, and how most of the world somehow fell to fascism. Also calling a communist Turkey the "Ottoman Socialist Republic" is like calling communist Britain the "People's Republic of Windsor" or communist Russia the "Union of Soviet Romanov Republics"; Ottoman is derived from Osman, as in the House of Osman.
Map Thread XIV
- Thread starter MorningDew
- Start date
- Status
Very nice. But wouldn't the communists in Istanbul want to rename their state something other than the imperial dynasty they just deposed? Perhaps something like "Turkic Socialist Republic".
EDIT:
This, basically.
I think maybe change the UK's colour? Idk it just stands out a bit and looks weird to me. Maybe use the colour used for India/ the Dominions on this map;
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...-reverse-cold-war.267538/page-27#post-7504053
Two reasons.
Turkic is a vastly overused word on these forums in my opinion. Ottoman gives it a slightly anachronistic tinge which is not necessarily a bad thing.
Secondly and vastly more importantly, it is a placeholder name.
"Yes my dear, this tea comes straight from the Windsorish Raj, through the former Ottoman territory of Suez and is then sold by a Romanovian salesman. I reckon one of those demonyms is going to last , but I am not sure which one."
Okay, sorry for getting on your case about the placeholder name.
But overused? It's a denonym. That's like saying calling myself an American is overused, I should be identifying myself as an Obamanian.
...That sounds kinda cool, actually.
Could I suggest the "Turan Socialist Republic" then? (Also the fact remains that this is a socialist state, and it strikes me as rather unlikely that they'd use the name of a royal house, being explicitly anti-monarchist and all.)
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Reminds me of a "Christian" version of ptochocracy (Gomesism), ironically stemming from Portugal (so also from the Lusosphere), which seems to have been thought up ages ago OTL but which we revived in my 1838 mapgame. It failed miserably in Portugal, due to the effect which you described, too: Robespierre- or Stalin-like purges of whoever is not below the poverty line of OTL South Sudan.
Ethnic map of a proposed third land inside Austria-Hungary, namely Croatia. The Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia, Bosnia and all of Cisleithania south of the Drava and south east of Villach were united into a single South Slavic kingdom as a counterweight to Slavic nationalism and the Kingdom of Hungary.
Most data is from the actual Austrian census held in 1910, though I had to patch it up with other sources too, so don't take this map as representing any real ethnic division at the time. Minorities are favoured. (some of those pink coloured parts have less than 30% Italians, for example)
Blue - Croats
Green - Serbs
Brown - Bosniaks (called Muslims here, since the term Bosniak came later)
Orange - Slovenes
Yellow - Germans
Pink - Italians
Deviantart link
Most data is from the actual Austrian census held in 1910, though I had to patch it up with other sources too, so don't take this map as representing any real ethnic division at the time. Minorities are favoured. (some of those pink coloured parts have less than 30% Italians, for example)
Blue - Croats
Green - Serbs
Brown - Bosniaks (called Muslims here, since the term Bosniak came later)
Orange - Slovenes
Yellow - Germans
Pink - Italians
Deviantart link
Sideways
Donor
Ethnic map of a proposed third land inside Austria-Hungary, namely Croatia. The Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia, Bosnia and all of Cisleithania south of the Drava and south east of Villach were united into a single South Slavic kingdom as a counterweight to Slavic nationalism and the Kingdom of Hungary.
Most data is from the actual Austrian census held in 1910, though I had to patch it up with other sources too, so don't take this map as representing any real ethnic division at the time. Minorities are favoured. (some of those pink coloured parts have less than 30% Italians, for example)
Blue - Croats
Green - Serbs
Brown - Bosniaks (called Muslims here, since the term Bosniak came later)
Orange - Slovenes
Yellow - Germans
Pink - Italians
Deviantart link
I don't normally comment here. But that's gorgeous.
Good lookin' map. What's NL? And what degree of control does Turkey proper have over that whole middle eastern area? Looks very decentralized.
I'd say NL stands for Netherlands.
And I gotta agree with your sentiment: nice and simple worlda. Of course a bit overshadowed by Blomma's awesomeness but that's normal
Of course, it's obvious after you say it.
And I gotta agree with your sentiment: nice and simple worlda. Of course a bit overshadowed by Blomma's awesomeness but that's normal
Yeah, that's like bringing your garage band out for a perfomance and finding you're sharing the stage with Thin Elvis.
Isaac Beach
Banned
Developed out of conversations in this thread, this map is a remake of the basic premise of this map with an actual POD and story behind it beyond me just crisscrossing in MSPaint and retroactively assigning a timeline. I’m not particularly good at these descriptions so bear with me:
The Prophet of Meritocracy
In 1794 upon being released from prison Claude Henri de Rouvroy, comte de Saint-Simon is not betrayed by his business partner -who has a change of heart at the last minute- and is able to build a reputation as an ideological industrialist and garner a following as such. Seeking out business opportunities in America, he is accosted by Joseph Evans, brother of the inventor Oliver Evans. The two meet and manage to plug the hole in Evans’ revolutionary concept of the automated production line -the hole being materials handling- and Saint-Simon imports the technology to France where it is put to use under Napoleon milling and making uniforms for French soldiers.
However, this fails to ensure a Napoleonic victory -he still disastrously invades Russia though through the south rather than the north- and the regime falls. (It is only at the very end of this era that Saint-Simon’s manufactureries are put towards military essentials like cannons and gun stocks) There is a somewhat different disposition of forces, however, and this reflects in the alt-Congress of Vienna (which instead takes place in Kassel). Prussia gains all of Saxony as opposed to the Rhinelands, while the House of Wettin is instead installed in a newly formed ‘Kingdom of the Rhine’. Denmark-Norway remains in one piece and Sweden never does lose Finland or Stalsund. A Zollverein if established in Germany, with a similar organisation in Italy due to Austria not having nearly the same capacity to object.
A more costly War of 1812 (taking place in 1813 and more costly due to more effective wartime industries leading to better equipped armies on both sides) destabilises the US, with New England attempting to secede a decade later mostly out of spite for how badly they were trampled during the war with Britain. They are again trampled and this sets a trend of authoritarian, centralised rule from Washington. This is a boon for Mexico, who -with some British intervention- manage to stabilise. There are less American settlers in Texas due to the Mexican government never encouraging them to move and internal American politics making it harder to emigrate West, this combined with a better government means that only a poultry portion of Texas is able to effectively secede and this world’s Mexican-American War is essentially a draw.
Similar issues to OTL compounded with frustrations surrounding the Bourbon regime’s policy on industrial regulation sees the rebellions of 1840 prematurely explode into ‘Industrialist’ rebellion, a mutated form of Saint-Simon’s philosophy advocating a syndicalist consensus government in which all work as some kind of symbiotic unit to the betterment of mankind with the ultimate goal of engaging all men in productive work without need for currency or hierarchy. This was actually first the case in the Netherlands, where a similar reactionary regime was overthrown and spread into the north of France.
Gran Colombia keeps in something of one piece, though loses some Venezuelan territory to Britain after pushing their claim to Esequiba. The Braganzas never leave Brazil due to concerns about the stability of Portugal, which backfires when Portugal revolts along with Spain and generally a lot of disconnected nonsense takes place in South America that leaves Peru under an Industrialist regime and much of the Southern Cone under Anglo-Mexican suzerainty.
Scared shitless by the wacky French regime and it’s allies the Zollverein confederates in 1855, egged and pressured by Britain. Power is distributed between British Hanover (no Victoria), Prussia and Bavaria, and later Austro-Bohemia who suffers an aborted revolution throughout the Empire which ends with the partition of the state. The Hapsburg Kingdom of Hungary will later collapse in on itself due to the same ethnic strife as OTL, but less spectacularly and while managing to avoid an Industrialist takeover in lieu of a generic, authoritative republic.
By 1870 there is a clear line of division between Western -Sans Britain- and Central Europe, which explodes into conflict that sees the decentralised Confederated Kingdoms of Germany lose the Rhinelands to France and a puppet Industrialist regime carved from newly unified Italy.
The Russian reaction is to tighten the autocratic belt, but this obviously has the opposite effect and sees the Tsar overthrown in the 1890s, before a shaky Industrialist regime attempts to form based on French principles but due to lacking the necessary infrastructure and being constantly pestered by the emerging Mitteleuropan Zollverein -who really really really doesn’t want to be sandwiched between two Industrialist regimes- collapses much as it’s Imperial predecessor did. A moderate state arises that later turns fascist due to a depressed economy fostering radical politics and a genuine discontent with the government’s meek handling of Industrialist rebels, especially when they overthrow the Mandate of Heaven in the East.
Speaking of which; Japan is colonised by the British, backed up by Mexican guns, after the Shogunate goes on a crusade to kill all Christians in the country. While Korea falls to a far more right wing and aggressive USA mostly to check Mexican interests in the area. China falls much as OTL though rather later, though it’s outer territories sans Tibet are gobbled up by fascist Russia. South East Asia mostly falls under control of either Britain or Germany though a Spanish monarchy in exile rules the Philippines and a strange, partially Industrialist government takes control of the Kingdom of Campuchea.
A war in the early 1910s between the Turks and Russians sees the Ottomans fall apart, with Libya and Constantinople falling under the Russian yoke and an independent Kingdom of Arabia materialising. But this remains something of an afterthought on the greater backdrop of the Industrialist-Techno-Colonialist Cold War.
Finally, in 1930, popular discontent with the US government engorged by Industrialist ideology explodes into armed rebellion. The world watches on, at once rather pleased that the world’s biggest anti-colonialist -though oddly hypocritical, they have colonies, but claim they’re to liberate Africans from the European yoke and provide a homeland for their freed -in 1890 btw- slaves and rabbit on about something to do with Manifest Destiny- is a bit busy to object to their exploitative measures but concerned about one of the world’s biggest nations possibly turning Industrialist.
Time will tell, one may suppose.
The map’s name comes from the book Fire in the Minds of Men: Origins of the Revolutionary Faith, by James Billington. He describes Saint-Simon as ‘The Prophet of Meritocracy’ than rattles on about reordering society.
I also get that a lot of people are very, very sceptical of the US ever being overthrown by a revolution of some kind. I’d sit in that camp too except then I’d never get to make an interesting map in my life. I hope this is a decent enough explanation as to why it occurred here.
This was also quite different from my previous maps in that I would from a mostly blank base as opposed to taking a 1914 map and restructuring the borders already present so things may seem a little dodge here and there. But I like this style, it’s easier and provides more variety among each border.
Criticism and whatnot very, very welcome.
The Prophet of Meritocracy
In 1794 upon being released from prison Claude Henri de Rouvroy, comte de Saint-Simon is not betrayed by his business partner -who has a change of heart at the last minute- and is able to build a reputation as an ideological industrialist and garner a following as such. Seeking out business opportunities in America, he is accosted by Joseph Evans, brother of the inventor Oliver Evans. The two meet and manage to plug the hole in Evans’ revolutionary concept of the automated production line -the hole being materials handling- and Saint-Simon imports the technology to France where it is put to use under Napoleon milling and making uniforms for French soldiers.
However, this fails to ensure a Napoleonic victory -he still disastrously invades Russia though through the south rather than the north- and the regime falls. (It is only at the very end of this era that Saint-Simon’s manufactureries are put towards military essentials like cannons and gun stocks) There is a somewhat different disposition of forces, however, and this reflects in the alt-Congress of Vienna (which instead takes place in Kassel). Prussia gains all of Saxony as opposed to the Rhinelands, while the House of Wettin is instead installed in a newly formed ‘Kingdom of the Rhine’. Denmark-Norway remains in one piece and Sweden never does lose Finland or Stalsund. A Zollverein if established in Germany, with a similar organisation in Italy due to Austria not having nearly the same capacity to object.
A more costly War of 1812 (taking place in 1813 and more costly due to more effective wartime industries leading to better equipped armies on both sides) destabilises the US, with New England attempting to secede a decade later mostly out of spite for how badly they were trampled during the war with Britain. They are again trampled and this sets a trend of authoritarian, centralised rule from Washington. This is a boon for Mexico, who -with some British intervention- manage to stabilise. There are less American settlers in Texas due to the Mexican government never encouraging them to move and internal American politics making it harder to emigrate West, this combined with a better government means that only a poultry portion of Texas is able to effectively secede and this world’s Mexican-American War is essentially a draw.
Similar issues to OTL compounded with frustrations surrounding the Bourbon regime’s policy on industrial regulation sees the rebellions of 1840 prematurely explode into ‘Industrialist’ rebellion, a mutated form of Saint-Simon’s philosophy advocating a syndicalist consensus government in which all work as some kind of symbiotic unit to the betterment of mankind with the ultimate goal of engaging all men in productive work without need for currency or hierarchy. This was actually first the case in the Netherlands, where a similar reactionary regime was overthrown and spread into the north of France.
Gran Colombia keeps in something of one piece, though loses some Venezuelan territory to Britain after pushing their claim to Esequiba. The Braganzas never leave Brazil due to concerns about the stability of Portugal, which backfires when Portugal revolts along with Spain and generally a lot of disconnected nonsense takes place in South America that leaves Peru under an Industrialist regime and much of the Southern Cone under Anglo-Mexican suzerainty.
Scared shitless by the wacky French regime and it’s allies the Zollverein confederates in 1855, egged and pressured by Britain. Power is distributed between British Hanover (no Victoria), Prussia and Bavaria, and later Austro-Bohemia who suffers an aborted revolution throughout the Empire which ends with the partition of the state. The Hapsburg Kingdom of Hungary will later collapse in on itself due to the same ethnic strife as OTL, but less spectacularly and while managing to avoid an Industrialist takeover in lieu of a generic, authoritative republic.
By 1870 there is a clear line of division between Western -Sans Britain- and Central Europe, which explodes into conflict that sees the decentralised Confederated Kingdoms of Germany lose the Rhinelands to France and a puppet Industrialist regime carved from newly unified Italy.
The Russian reaction is to tighten the autocratic belt, but this obviously has the opposite effect and sees the Tsar overthrown in the 1890s, before a shaky Industrialist regime attempts to form based on French principles but due to lacking the necessary infrastructure and being constantly pestered by the emerging Mitteleuropan Zollverein -who really really really doesn’t want to be sandwiched between two Industrialist regimes- collapses much as it’s Imperial predecessor did. A moderate state arises that later turns fascist due to a depressed economy fostering radical politics and a genuine discontent with the government’s meek handling of Industrialist rebels, especially when they overthrow the Mandate of Heaven in the East.
Speaking of which; Japan is colonised by the British, backed up by Mexican guns, after the Shogunate goes on a crusade to kill all Christians in the country. While Korea falls to a far more right wing and aggressive USA mostly to check Mexican interests in the area. China falls much as OTL though rather later, though it’s outer territories sans Tibet are gobbled up by fascist Russia. South East Asia mostly falls under control of either Britain or Germany though a Spanish monarchy in exile rules the Philippines and a strange, partially Industrialist government takes control of the Kingdom of Campuchea.
A war in the early 1910s between the Turks and Russians sees the Ottomans fall apart, with Libya and Constantinople falling under the Russian yoke and an independent Kingdom of Arabia materialising. But this remains something of an afterthought on the greater backdrop of the Industrialist-Techno-Colonialist Cold War.
Finally, in 1930, popular discontent with the US government engorged by Industrialist ideology explodes into armed rebellion. The world watches on, at once rather pleased that the world’s biggest anti-colonialist -though oddly hypocritical, they have colonies, but claim they’re to liberate Africans from the European yoke and provide a homeland for their freed -in 1890 btw- slaves and rabbit on about something to do with Manifest Destiny- is a bit busy to object to their exploitative measures but concerned about one of the world’s biggest nations possibly turning Industrialist.
Time will tell, one may suppose.
The map’s name comes from the book Fire in the Minds of Men: Origins of the Revolutionary Faith, by James Billington. He describes Saint-Simon as ‘The Prophet of Meritocracy’ than rattles on about reordering society.
I also get that a lot of people are very, very sceptical of the US ever being overthrown by a revolution of some kind. I’d sit in that camp too except then I’d never get to make an interesting map in my life. I hope this is a decent enough explanation as to why it occurred here.
This was also quite different from my previous maps in that I would from a mostly blank base as opposed to taking a 1914 map and restructuring the borders already present so things may seem a little dodge here and there. But I like this style, it’s easier and provides more variety among each border.
Criticism and whatnot very, very welcome.
As stated earlier, the name is a placeholder, but it has a nice anachronistic tinge to it. Will probably change it, though, but Turan seems a bit of a cliche, especially seeing as only Turkic peoples are under it's control, who are but a branch in the supposed Turanian family. Then again, it would be fittingly ambitious. I will consider that.
The control Turkey has is mostly economic cooperation and pretentious good relations due to communism, especially the Arab Socialist Union (Egypt and Hejdaz) has gone down its own path for some time. Some even consider the Turks unfit for a leadership position in the Middle Eastern Socialist Bloc.
Given how I'm never going to Finish my Taken, Dropped, and Thrown Timeline, I figured I would make a map of how it would look at the end of the timeline, 5 years after the war ends and the alien invasion is stopped:
spendabuck
Banned
I know I'm a bit late, but I was wondering what the story/timeline for this was; I can tell that there are influences from Edgar Rice Burroughs and H.P. Lovecraft, but I'm curious as to what the timeline for this world (or, more accurately, these worlds) is.I've completely overhauled my ASB world's underworld, with a few smaller updates here and there. Spoilered to avoid page-stretching.
I also get that a lot of people are very, very sceptical of the US ever being overthrown by a revolution of some kind. I’d sit in that camp too except then I’d never get to make an interesting map in my life. I hope this is a decent enough explanation as to why it occurred here.
This was also quite different from my previous maps in that I would from a mostly blank base as opposed to taking a 1914 map and restructuring the borders already present so things may seem a little dodge here and there. But I like this style, it’s easier and provides more variety among each border.
Criticism and whatnot very, very welcome.
I'm not quite sure how any US government in the 1820s _succeeds_ in establishing a centralized regime - the south, for one, would only support that if they were sure of having the votes to control it, and nobody is going to want to pay the taxes for it - but OK. I'm more bothered, actually, by the MexicoWank: even if Mexico's population growth rate is boosted enough to double its population from OTL by 1930, that's still only 32-odd million or a bit more than 1/4 of the US at the time OTL. Best case for a Mexico with an 1840s POD seems to me to be middling power/maaaybe Great Power, not a superpower by 1930. [1] (Actually, I can see Mexico as Mussolini's Italy before WWII: with enough marching and uniforms, they might successfully convince people that they're a first-rate military power.
)Also, you might want to rephrase that bit about France getting only just getting past their "early Soviet Union" period: a period that lasted a decade isn't really analogous to one which has lasted over eight, and clearly they've been a power in more than simply propaganda for some time now if they were able to beat up the Germans and the Italians simultaneously as far back as the 1870s.
[1] By 2016? Doable, if you can put off the demographic transition and/or absorb enough of the rest of Latin America.
Since you're asking, I might as well post a new (heavily WIP) version of the map:
Here's the quick and dirty version of the story : the main POD in the timeline (beyond the obvious ASB stuff) is that Alexander the Great builds a wall cutting the Persian Empire in half after receiving a prophetic vision about demonic hordes overrunning the Earth (essentially an exaggerated version of the Iranian/Islamic myth of the Wall of Alexander.) Later on the Roman Empire's collapse is mostly internal as rebellions and kingdoms start cropping up instead of collapsing because of the Migration Period (which is in part butterflied away.) As a result, Europe's ethnic, cultural and religious makeup is completely different.
One of the strongest of these breakaway states is a reborn Macedonian Empire (analogous to the Byzantines.) The Turkic peoples never leave Siberia so other than European states, the only foe of the Macedonians are the Muslim invaders from Arabia. Because the Muslims can't get past Alexander's wall (this isn't any kind of border wall that you can get over with a ladder, this is a big monolithic ASB metal wall built by genies of course.), Islam spreads further into the interior of Africa instead of through Eurasia.
Persia more-or-less takes the place of Ethiopia/the Indies in European folklore (China is very obscure and basically unknown to Europe) and helps fuel the expansion of the Russians and expeditions to try and sail the seas to reach Persia. Over the years after Alexander rudely cut their Empire in half, the Persian states had broken up and then recombined into kingdoms and empires in a cycle. By the time the Europeans made contact in the 1500s, Persia had become a federal monarchy.
The colonization and development of the Americas is superficially similar to OTL up until the Ameriwank starts up. America harnesses some of the pre-human horrors lurking on the continent in their wars and become known for their sorcerers and magic-wielders around the world.
The 1800s and early 1900s are very much based in the worlds Lovecraft, Verne, Burroughs, and H. Rider Haggard along with their contemporaries, except without as much white supremacy. Ancient lost kingdoms lurk in jungles and adventures across the world (and even others) take place. Scientific leaps are being made and Europe is going through huge ideological and political revolutions.
Leading up to modern times, geopolitics resembles a very pulpy take on the Cold War with ray guns, space colonies, magicians going into hiding and disappearing in favor of more scientific terrors, and world-destroying threats at every turn. In the 1970s Cthulhu finally awakens and leads his hordes out of R'lyeh to take over the world, but is stopped and banished back to his abode under the sea by a cabal of some of the last public wizards. The Cold War becomes tripolar since the Hyperborean states (which are pre-human worshippers of Cthulhu) ally with R'lyeh and brood for another attempt at dominating the planet. The only other major power block (on Earth) is the African Union, which is mostly just the House of Greystoke's personal playground of quarries, tree farms and oil fields to auction off to both sides.
The Cold War is informally over by the mid-2000s when Gog and Magog (the demonic hordes Alexander was watching out for) finally pop out of the ground in southern Russia and start to overrun middle-Europe. Fortunately for Persia, Alexander's wall works. Around the same time the Republic of China launches an invasion (covertly-backed by America) against the PRC. America is also tied up in internal affairs (something about the Ivy-league wizarding school-city melting down and a war against invaders from beyond the firmament.)
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