No. Arthur II is Arthur I's son from first marriage. After Mary dies childless her cousin/husband is king of England on his own right.
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage
- Thread starter Jonathan
- Start date
Edward IV will need foreign matches for his daughters so he is unlikely to care too much about double matches (specially because neither of the matches between Charles-Margaret and Maximilian-Elizabeth created a blood relation between England and Burgundy)
VVD0D95
Banned
Related to previous family trees re Richard of Shrewsbury and Edward IV:
Charles VIII of France (b.1470: d.1498) m Anne of Brittany (b.1477)
Issue:
Charles Orland, Dauphin of France (b.1492: d.1495)
Francis I of France (b.1493)
stillborn daughter (b.1495: d.1495)
Charles of France (b.1496: d.1496)
Anne of France (b.1498)
Charles VIII of France (b.1470: d.1498) m Anne of Brittany (b.1477)
Issue:
Charles Orland, Dauphin of France (b.1492: d.1495)
Francis I of France (b.1493)
stillborn daughter (b.1495: d.1495)
Charles of France (b.1496: d.1496)
Anne of France (b.1498)
So Margaret of Austria to Juan of Spain and Anne of York to Philip will fit nicely, but that leave open questions for Catherine of York, Maria of Aragon and Catherine of Aragon (one of them will surely end as second wife of Manuel I of Portugal)
VVD0D95
Banned
Agreed, though is it a guarantee that Afonso is going to end up dead ttl?
Maria of Aragon seems like a surety to Portugal if needed, Catherine of Aragon to Savoy is a possibility?
I do wonder who Francis I would end up married to.
Anne of Brittany m. Charles VIII(a) Louis XII(b)
1a. Charles Orlando b. 1492-1495
2a.Anne of France b. 1498 m. Francis I of France
2a.Claude of France b. 1499 m. Charles V
3a. Renee of France b. 1510 m. James V of Scotland
1a. Charles Orlando b. 1492-1495
2a.Anne of France b. 1498 m. Francis I of France
2a.Claude of France b. 1499 m. Charles V
3a. Renee of France b. 1510 m. James V of Scotland
Unless Ferdinand of Aragon had at least two healthy sons yes. And Manuel will need a second wife because Isabella had no intention to survive to childbirth. If Philip end as OTL is not unlikely who Maximilian will try to give a crown to his eldest son and made heir of the Empire his eldest son by Elizabeth who would be of the right age for Catherine and then we need only an husband for Catherine of York (or Margaret of Austria marry in Germany, the Imperial-Spanish match is between Maximilian’s second son and Catherine of Aragon, and Catherine of York marry Juan in a double match with Richard-Joanna)
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VVD0D95
Banned
A thing I've been playing with:
James, Duke of York and Albany (b.1633: d.1674) m Anne Hyde (b.1637: d.1671)
Issue:
Mary of York (b.1662) m William, Prince of Orange (b.1650)
James, Duke of Cambridge (b.1663: d.1684)
Anne of York (b.1664)
Edgar, Duke of Kendal (b.1667)
-----------
Edgar I of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1667) m Elizabeth Percy (b.1667)
Issue:
Charles of Kendal (b.1684: d.1684)
Catherine, Princess Royal (b.1685)
James, Prince of Wales (b.1687)
Algernon, Duke of York and Albany (b.1688)
stillborn son (b.1690: d.1690)
Elizabeth of Alnwick (b.1692)
Mary of Holyrood (b.1695)
stillborn daughter (b.1697: d.1697)
William, Duke of Northumberland (b.1699)
Henry, Duke of Ross (b.1702)
My line of thinking here is this, James, Duke of York and Albany dies during the 3rd Anglo-Dutch war, being allowed to fight in it due to having two sons who are reasonably healthy around. After his death, Charles II spends time focusing on his nephew James of Cambridge, and arranges a marriage for him to Maria Anna of Neuburg/ Anne Marie d'Orleans. At the same time he arranges a marriage for Edgar of Kendal to heiress Elizabeth Percy, with the two marrying in 1683. By the time James Cambridge dies in 1684 from an illness, Edgar is already married, and thus is now his uncle's heir apparent.
Not sure if plausible but thought it was interesting.
@Kellan Sullivan @isabella @Valena @Jonathan @The Professor @The_Most_Happy @FalconHonour
James, Duke of York and Albany (b.1633: d.1674) m Anne Hyde (b.1637: d.1671)
Issue:
Mary of York (b.1662) m William, Prince of Orange (b.1650)
James, Duke of Cambridge (b.1663: d.1684)
Anne of York (b.1664)
Edgar, Duke of Kendal (b.1667)
-----------
Edgar I of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1667) m Elizabeth Percy (b.1667)
Issue:
Charles of Kendal (b.1684: d.1684)
Catherine, Princess Royal (b.1685)
James, Prince of Wales (b.1687)
Algernon, Duke of York and Albany (b.1688)
stillborn son (b.1690: d.1690)
Elizabeth of Alnwick (b.1692)
Mary of Holyrood (b.1695)
stillborn daughter (b.1697: d.1697)
William, Duke of Northumberland (b.1699)
Henry, Duke of Ross (b.1702)
My line of thinking here is this, James, Duke of York and Albany dies during the 3rd Anglo-Dutch war, being allowed to fight in it due to having two sons who are reasonably healthy around. After his death, Charles II spends time focusing on his nephew James of Cambridge, and arranges a marriage for him to Maria Anna of Neuburg/ Anne Marie d'Orleans. At the same time he arranges a marriage for Edgar of Kendal to heiress Elizabeth Percy, with the two marrying in 1683. By the time James Cambridge dies in 1684 from an illness, Edgar is already married, and thus is now his uncle's heir apparent.
Not sure if plausible but thought it was interesting.
@Kellan Sullivan @isabella @Valena @Jonathan @The Professor @The_Most_Happy @FalconHonour
I think the principle is plausible enough, but I don't see Edgar being used as a name. Far more likely to be Charles or Henry. Maybe Edward. The Stuarts were not imaginative when it came to names...
VVD0D95
Banned
This is true, though there was a Stuart child named Edgar, named after both Edgar, King of Scots, and Edgar Atheling and Edgar the peaceful
Edgar Stuart, Duke of Cambridge - Wikipedia
James II had a son named Edgar OTL, doesn't seem that crazy. Between 1688 and 1837 every male ruler/consort of England was either William or George.
This is true, though there was a Stuart child named Edgar, named after both Edgar, King of Scots, and Edgar Atheling and Edgar the peaceful
Edgar Stuart, Duke of Cambridge - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Okay, okay, I stand corrected... Although I still think Charles, William or Henry is more likely.
. Will definitely be an interesting thing to see play out
That is an OTL name, the only difference is the bearer of this name being born healthier.
Other than this, I mosty agree.
Though the idea of a Northumberland domestic marriage is reasonable only if there are low expectations for this son to get in the line of succession - in other scenarios the OTL Queen in Prussia would be considered/lobbied for a boy in priority relative to any domestic match.
It shows, that despite the girl's birth date being 1667, Charles II did not try to grab her for any of his bastard sons IOTL (even with the boy taking Percy name and stuff) - she was betrothed very early to a son of Earl. A marriage to second in the succession line would be more glorious, but it would be still seen as a "waste of a boy".
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Here's a tree where Edward of Westminster lives and later becomes King of England!
King Edward V [1] (1453-1509), reigned from 1484 [2] M. Queen Elizabeth I (1466-1520), reigned from 1484, had issue:
1. Prince Henry, later King Henry VII (1485-1546) M. Leonor of Portugal [3] (1485-1545), had issue
1 (A). Princess Elizabeth (1501-1560)
1 (B). Princess Margaret (1503-1534)
1 (C). Prince Edward, later King Edward VI (1506-1570)
2. Princess Margaret (1487-1531) M. Louis XII (1462-1516), reigned from 1498, had issue
2 (A). Prince Charles, later King Charles IX (1503-1550) M. Duchess Margaret of Brittany [4] (1499-1548), reigned from 1499
2 (B). Prince Louis, Duke of Orleans (1505)
2 (C). Princess Marguerite (1507)
2 (D). Princess Marie (1509)
2 (E). Princess Elisabeth (1511)
3. Princess Elizabeth (1489-1543) M. King James (1473-present), reigned from 1488, had issue
3 (A). Prince James, Duke of Rothesay (1506)
3 (B). Prince Edward, Duke of Lothian (1508)
4. Prince John, Duke of Clarence (1491-1523) M. Marguerite of Angouleme (1492-1543), had issue
4 (A). Lady Margaret of Clarence (1508)
4 (B). Sir John of Clarence (1510)
4 (C). Lady Elizabeth of Clarence (1512)
4 (D). Sir Francis of Clarence (1514)
.....
[1] OTL Edward V and Richard of Shrewsbury die before Edward IV. Edward IV declares marries Elizabeth to Edward of Westminster and declares them to be his heirs and co-rulers.
[2] Edward IV lives just to the beginning of 1484. OTL Richard revolts against Edward IV but is defeated and executed.
[3] An alt daughter of King John II and Eleanor of Viseu.
[4] A posthumous daughter of Charles VIII, Anne of Brittany dies in childbirth leaving her the Duchess of Brittany, hence why Margaret marries Louis XII.
So the basic idea is Edward escapes Tewksbury with his Mother and two wind up in France where they spend over a decade plotting to get the throne back. Because of this Edward is extremely Pro-France and an Anglo-French alliance is formed in it's aftermath. Leonor is chosen as Henry's bride due to her dowry + alliance and because it won't offend the French. Criticism is welcomed if I got anything wrong or if something is unrealistic.
King Edward V [1] (1453-1509), reigned from 1484 [2] M. Queen Elizabeth I (1466-1520), reigned from 1484, had issue:
1. Prince Henry, later King Henry VII (1485-1546) M. Leonor of Portugal [3] (1485-1545), had issue
1 (A). Princess Elizabeth (1501-1560)
1 (B). Princess Margaret (1503-1534)
1 (C). Prince Edward, later King Edward VI (1506-1570)
2. Princess Margaret (1487-1531) M. Louis XII (1462-1516), reigned from 1498, had issue
2 (A). Prince Charles, later King Charles IX (1503-1550) M. Duchess Margaret of Brittany [4] (1499-1548), reigned from 1499
2 (B). Prince Louis, Duke of Orleans (1505)
2 (C). Princess Marguerite (1507)
2 (D). Princess Marie (1509)
2 (E). Princess Elisabeth (1511)
3. Princess Elizabeth (1489-1543) M. King James (1473-present), reigned from 1488, had issue
3 (A). Prince James, Duke of Rothesay (1506)
3 (B). Prince Edward, Duke of Lothian (1508)
4. Prince John, Duke of Clarence (1491-1523) M. Marguerite of Angouleme (1492-1543), had issue
4 (A). Lady Margaret of Clarence (1508)
4 (B). Sir John of Clarence (1510)
4 (C). Lady Elizabeth of Clarence (1512)
4 (D). Sir Francis of Clarence (1514)
.....
[1] OTL Edward V and Richard of Shrewsbury die before Edward IV. Edward IV declares marries Elizabeth to Edward of Westminster and declares them to be his heirs and co-rulers.
[2] Edward IV lives just to the beginning of 1484. OTL Richard revolts against Edward IV but is defeated and executed.
[3] An alt daughter of King John II and Eleanor of Viseu.
[4] A posthumous daughter of Charles VIII, Anne of Brittany dies in childbirth leaving her the Duchess of Brittany, hence why Margaret marries Louis XII.
So the basic idea is Edward escapes Tewksbury with his Mother and two wind up in France where they spend over a decade plotting to get the throne back. Because of this Edward is extremely Pro-France and an Anglo-French alliance is formed in it's aftermath. Leonor is chosen as Henry's bride due to her dowry + alliance and because it won't offend the French. Criticism is welcomed if I got anything wrong or if something is unrealistic.
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Unlikely to happen like that. If Edward IV is sonless and Westminster is alive and abroad is more likely who Edward IV will marry his daughter to Westminster than him naming his brother as heir passing over his daughters. Also a son of Edward of Westminster and Elizabeth of York is the direct heir of both the Lancastrian and Yorkist branches of the Plantagenets so he do not need any bloodline from his wife
I see, I did think of having Edward IV name his daughter his heir, than have Richard III usurp, but that would mean Edward of Westminster wouldn't be King in his own right. Also I explained that by having Richard III spike fears in Edward IV that another Empress Mathilde could occur hence why Edward IV named Richard his heir.
It's not for the blood, it's for the dowry.