Le Grand Empire Français: A French Empire Timeline
- Thread starter Dylanperr
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The reason I said that is because the Spanish kind of had a racial hierarchy in their colonies with Peninsulares and Creoles at the top and Black slaves and indigenous people at the bottom. Here was the colonial class and race structures that existed within the Spanish Empire.
I am thinking about the French demographic stagnation that happened in the 19th century where France's population only went from 30 million in 1800 to 40 million in 1900. This was mostly caused by France being slow to industrialize, one of the reasons why France was slow to industrialize, was France having a lack of natural resources as well the instability and the recessions happening in France in the 19th century as well. French coal, while very plentiful, was very difficult and expensive to mine, as well as being very bad quality and low grade as well, along with France have very little Iron Ore as well.
With a more successful French industrial revolution caused by having almost endless amount of natural resources coming from the French colonies (Especially New France and India), and without the French revolution, France in this timeline would retain a much more stable government under the French Bourbon monarchy. The French monarchy lasted for almost 1000 years before it was overthrown in 1793 in our timeline and it wouldn't collapse in this timelike like it did ours. The French Monarchy in this timeline would undergo a good amount of reforms to keep it afloat.
France in the 19th century was one very unstable mess in our timeline with several regime changes (First Republic, Napoleon, Traditional Monarchy, Napoleon for 100 days, Traditional Monarchy again, July Monarchy, Second Republic, Napoleon III, and the Third Republic, and that is not including all of the other rebellions such as the June Rebellion and the Paris Commune). A more stable French government would mean more stable institutions and fewer recessions, both of which would be very beneficial to the industrial revolution within France as well. France in this timeline would industrialize very rapidly and very similar to what Belgium did in our timeline. Without the French demographic stagnation in the 19th century, Industrialization is known to create huge excess population and France would have a large amount of excess population to send to New France in order to populate the colonies, French immigrants would likely be as numerous as those from the British Isles or Germany in our timeline by migrating in huge numbers, and France in this timeline would have a population of around 120-150 million to the present as well.
With a more successful French industrial revolution caused by having almost endless amount of natural resources coming from the French colonies (Especially New France and India), and without the French revolution, France in this timeline would retain a much more stable government under the French Bourbon monarchy. The French monarchy lasted for almost 1000 years before it was overthrown in 1793 in our timeline and it wouldn't collapse in this timelike like it did ours. The French Monarchy in this timeline would undergo a good amount of reforms to keep it afloat.
France in the 19th century was one very unstable mess in our timeline with several regime changes (First Republic, Napoleon, Traditional Monarchy, Napoleon for 100 days, Traditional Monarchy again, July Monarchy, Second Republic, Napoleon III, and the Third Republic, and that is not including all of the other rebellions such as the June Rebellion and the Paris Commune). A more stable French government would mean more stable institutions and fewer recessions, both of which would be very beneficial to the industrial revolution within France as well. France in this timeline would industrialize very rapidly and very similar to what Belgium did in our timeline. Without the French demographic stagnation in the 19th century, Industrialization is known to create huge excess population and France would have a large amount of excess population to send to New France in order to populate the colonies, French immigrants would likely be as numerous as those from the British Isles or Germany in our timeline by migrating in huge numbers, and France in this timeline would have a population of around 120-150 million to the present as well.
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France being a much more stable and wealthy country in the 19th century, due to retaining the monarchy and not having the French revolution and Napoleonic Wars would mean more stability as well as having a much bigger colonial empire would mean more natural resources for France, would mean France would industrialize much faster than it did in our timeline.
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Mormons (1826-1847)
Mormons
Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism would of created Mormonism and the Church Of Latter Day Saints in 1826, publishing the Book of Mormon, which is the Sacred Text to the Latter Day Saints, There would be nothing that would be different that would make Mormonism nonexistent, so Mormonism would still exist in a timeline where the French dominated North America. Due to the butterfly effect and likely being at a different place at a different time most likely, Joseph Smith would likely survive for longer.
He would lead the Mormons into OTL state of Ohio from their original place in Fayette, New York where they were originally expelled to escape persecution that was happening in New York, then the Mormons would likely go to a similar place to that of OTL Missouri and Illinois, get exiled again in an event known as the Mormon War which would still happen in this timeline and they still would of lost, and than the Mormons would soon develop a plan which would take them to the Southwest.
They would go to form their own nation of Deseret in the almost entirely unpopulated Spanish colonies, the Spanish wouldn’t really put that much into destroying a colony that was located in perhaps the most unsettled part of the Spanish Empire and one that would be very far away from Spain itself, the Spanish also lost interest in the region near our timelines Utah as well, and the Spanish would not put that much effort, if any, into reconquering the lost territory as well, and so the Spanish wouldn’t have interest in reconquering Deseret as well, it would be kind of similar to New Holland when the English colonized Australia in our timeline. They would go and create cities such as Salt Lake City, like they did in our timeline, and base the Church of the Latter Day Saints in that city as well, which would also be the capital of the nation of Deseret as well.
The nation of Deseret would be a large and diverse region stretching from Western Colorado, Utah, and Eastern Nevada, the terrain would be very mountainous indeed with a good amount of the rocky mountains as well as the continental divide being part of Deseret as well, it would also have a lot of Deserts as well, both cold and hot deserts, Deseret would of course have a mostly dry climate for the most part, because Nevada, Utah, and Colorado tend to have some of the driest climates in the United States.
Map Of Deseret (Black = Deseret, Red = British North America, Yellow = New Spain, Blue = New France, Dark Blue = Russian Alaska).
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Without the Second Great Awakening turning parts of New England into the burned-over district, would Mormonism have been born?
I honestly don't know how a surviving New France could of prevented the second great awakening.
I don't mean to be that guy, but it just really bothers me when I see it. It's could have not could of.
The French would definitely not keep their colony in Louisiana, even if they continue to win wars against Britain, due to population pressures. The French would most definitely keep Canada though, the French will encourage settlement in Canada while discouraging it in Louisiana, due to what happened in 1804, when they had to give up Louisiana east of the Mississippi river, due to Anglo population pressures, and learning that Anglo American settlers are rapidly moving westward, and will eventually surpass the French population in Louisiana, this will make the French give up on Louisiana, while the French will make huge efforts to develop Canada, due to Canada having a larger French population than Louisiana, and having a smaller influx of settlers from British North America as well, which would mean the French would be able to keep and hold onto Canada. The main port of entry in New Orleans and the mouth of the Mississippi river have possibilities of tropical diseases as well.
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1830 Conquest Of Algeria
Conquest Of Algeria
In the Mediterranean, Barbary pirates are capturing white Christian Europeans and literally enslaving them during the Barbary Slave Trade, they can and went as far north as Ireland to do so as well, the French would want to put an end to Barbary privatering, Charles X would not be king and the conquest of Algeria would still have of happened due to Barbary privateering, the French would want a colony in Africa as well, since 19th century European countries wanted to expand into Africa, Algeria is at a perfect place for French conquest due to its geographic location close to France. Algeria likely wouldn’t be settled as much as it was in our timeline due to the French having New France, and in Algeria the climate is drier and worse than in North America, there is a high native Algerian population, unlike that in North America where the land is very sparsely population by natives/first nations, the only advantage that Algeria has to North America would be that it is much closer to France than New France is, so Algeria would not have a large Pied Noir population like it did in our timeline due to the French retaining New France. New France would be the place where almost all French would immigrate to due to Louisiana being swallowed up by Anglo settlers, The Caribbean and French Guiana having tropical climates, which would be unhealthy for White Europeans due to the presence of tropical diseases, and the French colony in Western Australia likely wouldn’t survive due to it being extremely far away from France, and the British would have a strong presence in Australia at this point, so it would have a high possibility of not surviving and like Algeria it would have geography that is worse than that of North America as well.
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I also don't see how Anglo-American migration patterns would be different or radically different from that of our timeline, because in the 19th century during the era of Westward Expansion, was basically an era when you could go to any piece of land you want and call it yours, and early American settlers didn't really care about what country that land belonged to as well, free land is nothing old as well, homesteading officially ended in 1976 in Alaska in our timeline, but it is still unofficially going on in certain small towns and remote parts of the United States as well. Also Border Patrol really wasn't that strong or established during the era of Westward Expansion as well, especially in the Western frontier regions, and laws and land claims would pretty much go unenforced as well, due to how remote the region was from civilization.
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1830-1850 Early Immigrants
Early Immigrants
It is the early 19th century and in both British and French North America, there is massive amounts of immigration, mostly from northern and western Europe at first, both British and French settlers are arriving to North America in droves, Immigrants would come to North America, both British and French North America, for a boat load of different reasons, but it would mostly be for better job and economic opportunities, fleeing persecution, some would flee from desperate poverty as well, and crop failures, and those aren’t just the only reasons, those are just a few mentioned.
Ireland, due to the potato famine that struck Ireland, and since there would be a British and a French North America and the British being Protestant and the French being Catholic, would make places where immigrants would immigrate to be more determined on religion than they were in our timeline, the Irish Catholics would mostly settle in French North America, due to their shared Catholic faith and their disdain for British authority, meanwhile the Irish Protestants such as the Ulster Scots, would settle in British North America due to their shared Protestant faith, and the Irish Protestants didn’t really have it as bad as the Irish Catholics did under British rule, and their Protestant faith would make them loyal to the British Empire.
The Irish as well as the British and French aren’t the only immigrant groups coming in droves to North America, there are also a large amount of German immigrants as well, Catholic Germans from the southern and western regions of Germany would mostly migrate to French North America while the Protestant Germans mostly coming from the Northern part of Germany would migrate to British North America again this has to do with their shared faith.
Cities like New York, Philadelphia, Boston in British North America while the cities in French North America that will be booming would be Montreal, Quebec City, Taranteau (OTL Toronto), Ottawa (OTL Ottawa, it would likely have the same name), would be the main industrial centers in French North America, due to the industrial revolution creating many new economic and job opportunities, with new industries being created by the industrial revolution, there would be new things such as textiles and heavy industry, this industrial boom would attract a huge amount of immigrants, just like they did in our timeline, from many parts of not only Europe, but also much of the Americans from the rural areas, especially from the South would also relocate to the major cities in the North as well. Chicago would be split with British and the French parts, and Chicago would most definitely be apart of both French and British North America due to its geographic location.
1830-1850 Native Americans/First Nations
Native Americans/First Nations
You obviously can’t talk about North America without talking about its indigenous peoples and its indigenous roots, the French remained allies with tribes like the Algonquin and Huron tribes while the British allied with the Iroquois and Cherokee tribes. The Trail of Tears would likely never of happened in this timeline, since in our timeline, it was a highly controversial decision, and it only came from a very narrow vote in Congress, the British may even try to use these tribes against the French and the French allied tribes, and so the Native American tribes such as the Cherokee, Creek, Seminole, Chickasaw, and Choctaw which were collectively referred to as the Five Civilized Tribes would survive in the American South with places like Northern Mississippi, Eastern Alabama, Northwest Georgia, and Central Florida would have potential Native American reservations.
Industrialization would make it where White European settlers can easily defeat the native populations, so when and if the native tribes resist the Europeans when they expand westward, they would likely be easily defeated, with the Comanche in Texas and many other Native American tribes in the Great plains and Southwest likely being harder to defeat, but the Comanche would most definitely be defeated at some point to when settlers, mostly Anglo settlers would begin to move into Texas and colonize it.
For the French colonies it would be a bit harder because the French had retained a pretty good relationship with the Native tribes, but when the fur trade declines and the industrial revolution occurs, and when New France sees a mass influx of French settlers it would be a bit harder to find out how the relations between the French and Natives would go. The reason why the French and the natives were allies, was because New France heavily relied on the fur trade, and also relied on the natives for much of its defense as well, and much of the French monarchs and Colonial governors, had rules in place to encourage friendly relationships between the colonists and natives. It wouldn’t be that surprising to see the areas with large native populations would likely receive less white settlers, while the relationship with the natives would start to deteriorate to a certain degree, and the natives would likely start to have mixed relations with the French, as settlers would start to move out west. the French government would try to protect the first nations, but legislation would be very difficult to enforce in the very unpopulated parts of the frontier, and many settlers most likely wouldn’t be that nice to the indigenous populations.
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1836-1848 Texas And The West
Texas And The West
There is land out west, and settlers are arriving there in droves, especially west of the Mississippi river and in the Northwest and Southwest as well, Anglo American settlers are starting to settle and pour into French Louisiana, as they have for over 40 years, and are establishing and settling areas especially near our timelines states of Arkansas and Missouri and are establishing Anglo settlements and they are founding new cities in the west, meanwhile the French are settling Western Canada and the Upper Midwest in the Great Lakes region and are arriving mostly from Acadia, Quebec, and Metropolitan France itself. While settlement is growing in places near the Mississippi river and Great Lakes, there are lands further out west like those in Texas, California, and Oregon that are seeing massive population growth, the development of new settlements, and a massive influx of both British and French settlers.
Texas is attracting many settlers seeking cheap or even free land, with many Anglo American settlers pouring into Texas, the Spanish might even do what the Mexican government did in our timeline and invite American settlers to keep down the Comanche and other hostile tribes in the region. The settlers would rebel against Spanish colonial authority, and the Spanish losing interest in Texas, would have very little interest in putting down a revolt and if the Spanish ever did try to put down a revolt, it would likely fail, because Texas is thousands of miles away from Spain itself and the region was barely populated with Spanish settlers, with the Anglo American settlers quickly surpassing the Spanish settlers in Texas which were known as the Tejanos while the Anglo settlers would be known as simply Texans, and French settlers would likely be called Texiens if they ever had a name.
The Oregon trail would lead many Anglo Americans to settle in the Oregon country and the rest of the entire Pacific Northwest as well, since settlers would find out about the rich fertile land in the Willamette valley, which would also attract many French settlers from New France as well, because the Oregon country was founded mostly by British and French North American fur traders, this land attracted many settlers in our timeline, it also would attract a lot of settlers in this timeline as well. The warmer climate of Western North America due to the influence of the ocean streams and pacific winds, would mean settlers could settle further North, and the region, would receive more settlers than places like the Great Plains, which at the time called the Great American Desert. The Pacific Northwest would also attract many European settlers, from Europe as well, due to how similar the climate is to Western Europe itself, which Western Europe is the heartland of both the British and the French as well.
While Texas and the Oregon country aren’t the only places out on the frontier to settle, there is also California, known for its mostly nice landscapes, fertile soil, and vast natural resources it has, all of those will do a lot attract a lot of settlers, with places like the central valley which is home to some of the most fertile farmland in North America which will attract a lot of families settling to farm and would settlers would start massive ranches known as ranchos and the vast natural resources would cause many to migrate to California for gold and other natural resources like coal and later oil.
1836-1874 Settlement Of The West
Settlement Of The West
The far west is already being colonized and settled, but by who, the French are based further north in Quebec and Acadia, and the French would be settling in the Upper Midwest and Great Lakes regions of North America, this would mean places, like Ontario, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, especially in the Northern parts of these regions, would be a lot more like Quebec and possibly even Acadia, in almost every way imaginable than they would in our timeline, rather than being mostly shaped culturally by the American Northerners from the Midatlantic and New England regions, and parts of these areas and regions in our timeline already have high French and French Canadian descended populations, so with the French remaining in North America this would mean there would be much more French influence and this would result in the Upper Midwest and Canada being mostly populated and settled by French and French Canadian settlers, and the French Canadian diaspora that migrated in droves into New England in our timeline, would instead move west rather than south into New England, because Western Canada would be apart of French Canada, rather than British Canada, and the Great Lakes area would develop a lot of textile industries as well, many French Canadian fur traders would move into places that are based in the far western frontier areas of North America, such as the Oregon Country, and the Canadian Praries, where most of the fur trade would be going on.
The British are based on the Eastern seaboard of North America, a little further south of the French in North America, the Anglo settlers are starting to settle the Ohio River Valley and the industrial revolution would bring many more settlers from North America, and immigrants from Europe, and Anglo American settlers are also moving into lands south of the Ohio river valley as well. Most Anglo American settlers that settle in areas like Texas come from the Southern colonies of British North America such as Virginia, Tennessee and the Deep South while Anglo American settlers settling in the Ohio River Valley and the Lower Great Lakes area, especially near our timelines Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois mostly come from the Middle colonies like New York and Pennsylvania while Anglo American settlers settling in the far west like California, Oregon, or most places west of the Great Plains will mostly come from almost everywhere in British North America like the Southern, Middle, and New England colonies as well as settlers in the Midwest that already migrated from those regions as well.
Map of the British and French North American diasporas (Blue = French, Red = British, Yellow = Spanish, Grey = Unpopulated/Inuit)
I heard that some say that the British conquest of New France was inevitable, but I mostly disagree, because New France itself survived for up to 150 years, and there were definitely times that it was almost conquered earlier (In 1628 and 1707), and the same thing can be said about the British in British Canada which managed to survive the War of 1812 and against Manifest Destiny (For example America had around 20-25 times the population that British Canada and the US almost twice that of Britain itself during James K. Polk's presidency), and I partly agree, because the British would take a good chunk of French North America due to population pressures coming from Anglo settlers, and this would mostly be in French Louisiana rather than French Canada. In this timeline French Canada would be more populated than British Canada (Due to French immigration to Canada being earlier than that of British immigration to Canada), and France itself would be more populated and more militarily powerful than Britain as well.