If France is going to claim the Pacific north-west, they're going to have to reach a settlement with Spain somehow or other. Spain wasn't particularly interested in the north-west coast, but it still claimed it. Some kind of deal has to be reached.
 
Any truly massive butterflies out East? Like in Poland and all?
Probably not but the biggest butterfly would probably be no Russian Revolution if it doesn't happen in this alternate timeline and I am nowhere near it to find out if it would happen.
 
If France is going to claim the Pacific north-west, they're going to have to reach a settlement with Spain somehow or other. Spain wasn't particularly interested in the north-west coast, but it still claimed it. Some kind of deal has to be reached.
It might be like the Dutch in Australia where they had no interest in it and did nothing about it when the British came in.
 
I think the Spanish were a little more stubborn than that. Still, given France is more powerful in this scenario it should be fairly easy . Toss 'em some concessions in the Caribbean, Pacific, or- my favorite- gang up on the Barbary Corsairs- helps France take Algeria earlier too.
 
France might sell everything east of the Mississippi except New Orleans and what is now the Lake Michigan area in exchange for a peace deal similar to what the French did with the Vikings and gave them Normandy in our timeline in exchange for a peace deal. Most of the area east of the Mississippi would probably be settled by the English anyway since they would come in larger numbers than the French would.
 
Everything east of the Mississippi river in New France is going to eventually be British due to westward and the French sell it and would hand it over to the British in exchange for a peace deal similar to what the Vikings got in Normandy from the French.
 
1790 Map And Census For New France
North America In 1790.
Blue - France.
Red - Great Britain.
Yellow - Spain.
Dark Blue - Russia.
Dark Red - Denmark.
Black - Uncolonized.

1790 Map Of North America.png

New France population: 500,000.
British North America population: 3,893,000.
 
Last edited:
1791-1793 Haitian Revolution And The Abolition Of Slavery
Haitian Revolution And The Abolition Of Slavery

The French have a colony in the caribbean known as Saint Domingue which is known as present day Haiti. The French colony of Saint Domingue which was a sugar and coffee producing colony as well as producing some fruits as well was the richest colony in the West indies and possibly the richest colony in history. But Saint Domingue had a problem because almost all of its wealth came from slavery on the plantations which produced many things like sugar, coffee, cotton, and many other things but it was mostly sugar plantations which were very deadly places for slaves to work quickly because of things such as pests such as snakes and diseases as well and there was also the issue of slavery because there were a lot of people in France who were very pro slavery and there were others who were strongly opposed to slavery.

The Haitian Revolution was a revolution by the mostly enslaved peoples of the French colony of Saint Domingue who were mainly black slaves and free people of colour such as mixed race creoles who were of mixed European (mostly French) and African descent rising up against the planters who were known as the Grand-Blancs class who were the plantation owners who owned the plantations and the slaves who worked on the plantations in Saint Domingue. Toussaint Louverture was the most famous of these Haitian Revolution leaders and he was born a slave in Saint Domingue and when the Haitian Revolution came along he commanded the Haitian rebels against France and than the Spanish and the British armies during the Haitian Revolution because Spain and Britain like the French didn’t want to see a successful black slave revolt in Saint Domingue or anywhere with slavery because the Spanish and the British feared it would spark a revolt in their own colonies like for example such as the British colony of the Bahamas or the Spanish colony of Santo Domingo that could inspire their own enslaved people to revolt against them as well.

In this alternate timeline with the establishment of the national assembly and a constitutional monarchy in France it is likely the French would outlaw slavery somewhere around 1793 like they did in our timeline and it would most likely end the Haitian Revolution peacefully because in our timeline when the France outlawed slavery the Haitian rebels stopped fighting against the French and they even joined the French to fight against the British and the Spanish who were on the side of the planters who were the class who owned the slaves and the plantations in Saint Domingue.
 
Last edited:
1800-1810 North America
North America in 1800-1810.
Blue - French.
Red - British.
Yellow - Spain.
Dark Blue - Russian.
Dark Red - Danish.
Black - Mississippi River/Uncolonized.
Purple - Joint British-French/Often Switches From French to British Influence.

1810 Map Of North America.png


The French would have to give up most of Pays Des Illinois and Pays d'en Haut except the Lake Michigan area, Southern Ontario would likely be a lot like Acadia with it switching from British to French influence a lot and would later be a joint British-French territory because a lot of American and French settlers would settle that area, similar to our timelines Oregon Territory between the British and the Americans. The latitude of our timeline city of Greater Sudbury would mark the border between French Canada and the joint British-French Southern Ontario in what is our timeline the Province of Ontario. The French would be forced to give these lands up to the British because of Anglo expansion throughout the North American continent and the French would also give them up because they were lightly settled and the French would want something out of it as well so they would sell them to Britain in exchange for peace similar to what the French did with Normandy during the Viking age. The Spanish would also do the same with Florida for the same reasons it did in our timeline and for what the French did to their lands in North America in this alternate timeline as well. Newfoundland would be split between France and Great Britain because it would be valuable to both nations because of the maritime industry.

Treaty of Philadelphia (1804)
- France gives parts of or all of Pays des Illinois and Pays d'en Haut East of the Mississippi River to Great Britain (Most of the US east of the Mississippi).
- Spain gives Florida to Great Britain.
- A peace agreement is negotiated and signed between Great Britain, France, and Spain.
- Newfoundland is split with the French influence in the west and the British influence in the east.

New France population: 725,000.
British North America population: 5,400,000.
 
Last edited:
How About The People In Our Timeline?
Since I am really attached to our timelines history as well as alternate history I am going to make this page. I will go back and add more people to it as we go in the future.

George Washington (1732-1799) Commander of the British army in the French and Indian war and later a commander of the Continental army than became the 1st President of the United States in our timeline remains a commander in the British Army until his death in 1799.

Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) One of the most famous founding fathers of the United States and on the $100 bill in our timeline who helped founded the American Parliament in 1776 in this alternate timeline.

Sir Guy Carleton (1724-1808) Governor-General of Quebec and Loyalist in the American Revolutionary War who basically created English Speaking Canada by inviting Loyalists into what is now the Province of Ontario in our timeline remains a British colonial officer in the British army.

Marquis de Lafayette (1757-1834) Remains a general in the French army and likely would become an army commander in New France in this alternate timeline.

Patrick Henry (1736-1799) A Patriot in the American Revolution and who was the Governor of Virginia that said "Give me liberty of give me death" in our timeline remains a lawyer and a planter in this alternate timeline.

Paul Revere (1734-1818) A Patriot in the American Revolution remains a silversmith and becomes an early industrialist.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) 3rd President of the United States and also negotiated the purchase of Louisiana and one of the signers of the constitution in our timeline would likely be a diplomat that would likely help develop better relations between France and Great Britain in this alternate timeline.

Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1820) Military commander of the French army and than became Emperor of the French in our timeline would still be a military commander in this alternate timeline under King Louis XVI.

William Seward (1801-1872) Governor and senator of New York and the Secretary of State during the civil war and who negotiated the purchase of Alaska in our timeline would likely still be senator and than governor of New York in this alternate timeline as well.
 
Last edited:
1790-1810 Westward Expansion
Westward Expansion

It is the 1790s and in North America the two European powers the British and the French along with their colonies and colonists wanted to expand westward into the North American continent for almost any reason imaginable some colonists both British and French wanted to be involved and get a start in the highly profitable fur trade which brought both the British and French Empires a lot of money while other groups of North American colonists wanted new places in order to do things such as building new settlements and or setting down roots and raise large families. But the British and the French Empires in North America themselves would of wanted to expand into the North American continent as well and colonize it for similar reasons the colonists did and so that they could get as much land on the continent as they could to.

The French Empire with its recent reforms and new style of government such as the adoption of a constitutional monarchy and a parliamentary system would start sending dissident groups and minorities to their colonies (similar to what the British did) in order to populate the extremely sparsely populated colony of New France. The revocation of the Edict of Fontainebleau which was known as the Edict of Tolerance which was passed in 1787 by King Louis XVI would of given the Huguenots which were French Protestants along with Jews who were also given tolerance as well and both of these groups along with other groups as well would likely to be highly encouraged to settle in the French colonies by the French crown. The French Empire would of also developed penal colonies in the new world as well to get rid of overcrowding in prisons. The famines that were in France during the 1780s would cause the French population to migrate to New France in order to start a new life in North America and this would result in the French population in the French North American colonies to grow extremely rapidly as well. New France had just experienced a population boom and French settlers both recent arrivals and long established groups of colonists such as the Acadians and Quebecois in the French colonies would start to migrate to the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River regions of New France.

The British colonists would have far larger populations that would exceed that of other European colonies in North America like that of both New France and New Spain. The British colonists being in way larger numbers would start to head westward into the interior of the North American continent as they would go west of the Appalachian mountains they would of created extremely large population pressures almost everywhere they would go especially in areas such as the Ohio River Valley that it would make the French unable to hold the Ohio River Valley due to population pressures from the British colonies and some sort of negotiation would of had to been made with the British. The French would of had to hand almost all of their possessions east of the Mississippi river except for the Lake Michigan area which the French would keep for trading purposes that they could access Lake Michigan for their fur trading business in North America. The British would of also get some of Canada as well with our timeline Southern Ontario would be of been British while Newfoundland would of been split between the French and the British with French in the west and British in the east.

The Spanish along with the French would of also of been involved in this negotiation for the same reasons that the French are. There will also be population pressures coming from the British Southern Colonies in North America as well especially colonists in Georgia and the Carolinas because they would of wanted Florida from the Spain. There would be many reasons that the Southerners in the British colonies would of wanted Florida from the Spanish and the reasons are pretty obvious and extremely similar if not the same to that of our timeline they would of not wanted to have to endure attacks from Native Americans tribes that were based in Spanish Florida especially of that of the Seminole as well as Plantation owners in the Southern colonies mostly in Georgia would of not wanted a safe haven that was Spanish Florida that their slaves could of escaped to in order to escape slavery. Florida also has extremely good and arable land paired with a good climate that was extremely good for cash crops such as that of Sugarcane and Indigo that could of grown in Florida really well. This would of attracted a lot of the Plantation owners in the British Southern Colonies coming from mostly from Georgia and the Carolinas who owned slaves to come and settle in Florida.
 
I know I haven't said anything for quite some time. I know I am thinking about the Pacific Northwest a lot in this alternate timeline which I wouldn't be surprised if it could be under joint British-French control for similar reasons to how it was in our timeline between the Americans and the British.

The Spanish would likely sell California, New Mexico, and Texas similar to the borders to our timelines Mexican Cession and Spanish Texas to the French in exchange for funds for industrialization that the Spanish Empire doesn't have to be propped up by the French and could recover from some of its long decline as a world power since the 17th century during the industrial revolution.
 
Last edited:
1800-1815 Former Slaves And Slave Owners
Former Slaves And Slave Owners

With the abolition of slavery in the French Caribbean in 1793 many of the former slaves in the French Caribbean were freed but many of them would face social problems similar to that after slavery was ended in the US after the reconstruction era. Former slaves in the French caribbean would face similar problems such as massive inequalities in society because a lot of the slave owners which were known as planters or Grands Blancs would fear a large majority free black population and would try absolutely everything in their power to disenfranchise them at all costs and make them feel inferior to the mostly ethnic white French population in every way they possibly could such as imposing an Apartheid/Jim Crow style racial segregation system similar to that in the Southern United States or Apartheid South Africa. In our timeline a lot of the white French elite in the French Caribbean made it where Africans were viewed as impure and as a disease just because of their skin colour. The French Caribbean especially in Saint Domingue had a social hierarchy which was determined by economic class and ethnic background with the wealthy white French elite on the top of the hierarchy known as the Grands Blancs and with Black African slaves being on the bottom of the hierarchy.

A lot of the freed former slaves and their descendants from the French Caribbean would also end up being imported to the mainland of North America in New France in the colony of Louisiana near the gulf coast to be used for economic practices similar to that of sharecropping and also for the use of exploitable cheap labour for the plantation owners in the French colonies based in the Caribbean and Louisiana. Former slaves and their descendants would be used as a source of exploitable labour to build up the infrastructure of the French colony of Lower Louisiana to prepare the North American colony for further white settlement.

Slavery in Louisiana in this alternate timeline would take longer to end and where slavery would likely end around the late 19th century somewhere around the 1880s. The importation of African slaves from both Africa and the Caribbean would likely be banned in Louisiana around the 1820s, somewhere around 1826, when France started to enforce the ban on the importation of African slaves in its colonies in our timeline. a lot of former slave owners, sometimes referred to as planters, from the Caribbean especially from French Haiti would migrate to Louisiana and build plantations. Like Australia in our timeline and this alternate timeline, Louisiana was and is a penal colony so it would also have prisoners from mainland France and later other French colonies providing cheap labour by working off their sentences by building up the colony of French Louisiana.
 
Last edited:
I am thinking about how the Spanish and Portuguese colonies in the Americas would develop during the industrial revolution in this alternate timeline because colonies to the Spanish and Portuguese were more of economic assets and religious missions rather than places to settle like the British did in North America.

I think after the abolition of slavery in both the Spanish and Portuguese colonies they would likely industrialize their New World colonies and possibly create a settler colony in the Southern cone to attract White European settlement because the southern cone of South America or anything southward of 18 degrees south was perfect for European settlement due to the climate and the geography of the region.

I think the Spanish and Portuguese could put something similar to our timelines White Australia policy in the southern cone of South America that white settlers could have all the best land to themselves. While peoples such as indigenous peoples and blacks in the perspective the Spanish and Portuguese were considered inferior.
 
Last edited:
1800-1830 Spanish And Portuguese Empires In The Americas
Spanish And Portuguese Empires In The Americas

The Spanish and Portuguese colonies in South America had very diverse landscapes from tropical rainforests and deserts in the Northern part of South America to the grasslands and the woodlands in the Southern cone and Patagonia regions. The Spanish and Portuguese basically viewed their colonies as economic assets rather than places to settle because the Spanish and the Portuguese established colonies in the Americas for almost entirely economic and religious reasons such as extracting from the natural resources such as gold and silver from mines, Establishing plantations that produced mostly sugar and coffee, and converting local natives sometimes and often forcibly to Catholicism under the Spanish inquisition.

At first the Spanish and Portuguese never really intended or cared about settling any of their colonies with white settlers in the Americas like the British did in North America. But in this alternate timeline where the countries in the Americas never gained independence from the country they were a colony of whether that would be Britain, France, Spain, or Portugal. Rather the countries that controlled them held better control of their colonies with an example being that Napoleon who would never come to power in France and would just be a high ranking French military general in this alternate timeline which would mean that the Peninsular wars would of never of happened and Spain and Portugal aren’t invaded by the French which meant that the revolutionaries in Central and South America never would find a perfect opportunity to rebel against either Spain or Portugal and gain independence like they did in our timeline.

With the Spanish and Portuguese viewing their colonies as economic assets in both this alternate timeline as well as our timeline it is likely by the time in which when slavery ends in both the Spanish and Portuguese colonies as well as the time of industrialization. The Spanish and the Portuguese would industrialize the South American continent and create settler colonies based in the southern cone of South America in this alternate timeline because the southern cone of South America would be a perfect place for sustaining white european settlement in the Americas due to how similar the climate and the geography would be to that of Europe and how fertile the farmland would be as well with places such as the Pampas Grassland being some of the most fertile farmland on earth.

The Spanish and the Portuguese considering blacks and indigenous peoples inferior would pass policies and laws which would disenfranchise them in the Spanish and Portuguese colonies in the Americas and would impose a system similar to that of our timelines apartheid or segregation and possibly even reservations for minorities such as blacks and indigenous peoples would likely be instituted. They would exist in places that would otherwise be unhealthy for white European settlement such as places that have tropical climates or any other climates that aren’t fit for European settlement such as the Caribbean and some parts of Central and South America which can’t sustain European settlement without tropical medicine would possibly have reservations on them. In South America places that are in the southern cone region such as the Spanish colony of Rio de la Plata and southern Peru as well as southern Brazil would be reserved for white settlement by the Spanish and Portuguese.
 
Last edited:
Well, I think I should talk about the Pacific Northwest after the industrial revolution because I am thinking about it a lot.
 
Last edited:
1774 Louis XVI Becomes King Of France
Louis XVI Becomes King Of France

The King of France before Louis XVI was his grandfather, Louis XV was born on February 15, 1710 in the Palace of Versailles. He had ascended the throne at the age of five, when he was a young child, his regent Philippe II, Duke Of Orleans took over in 1715 and ruled until his death in 1723. Louis XV had an extremely long reign at around 59 years on the throne ruling from 1715-1774. His coordination was on 25 October 1722 in Royal Basilica in Saint Denis, France which is now a suburb of Paris, France. He reigned through many events throughout the history of France, with the most notable being the War of the Quadruple Alliance, War Of The Austrian Succession, and the Seven Years War.

King Louis XV died on May 10, 1774 in the Palace of Versailles, the same place in which he was born, and the throne went to his grandson Louis, who would become King Louis XVI of France, his coordination was at Reims Cathedral in Reims France which is a city in Northeastern France. In our timeline he on 21 January 1793, and later his wife Marie Antoinette on 16 October 1793 who was the Queen of France, would be executed by a revolutionary mob in Paris during the French Revolution, But in this alternate timeline where the French revolution would be a lot different from the one of our timeline, King Louis XVI would live to continue his reign as King of France and stay on the French throne, in this alternate timeline he would live to be a great king, possibly one of the greatest, because he wanted to reform France, help the lower classes, and was a huge promoter of the Enlightenment within France. France under King Louis XVI in this alternate timeline would end up becoming an enlightened monarchy.
 
Louis XVI Becomes King Of France

The King of France before Louis XVI was his grandfather, Louis XV was born on February 15, 1710 in the Palace of Versailles. He had ascended the throne at the age of five, when he was a young child, his regent Philippe II, Duke Of Orleans took over in 1715 and ruled until his death in 1723. Louis XV had an extremely long reign at around 59 years on the throne ruling from 1715-1774. His coordination was on 25 October 1722 in Royal Basilica in Saint Denis, France which is now a suburb of Paris, France. He reigned through many events throughout the history of France, with the most notable being the War of the Quadruple Alliance, War Of The Austrian Succession, and the Seven Years War.

King Louis XV died on May 10, 1774 in the Palace of Versailles, the same place in which he was born, and the throne went to his grandson Louis, who would become King Louis XVI of France, his coordination was at Reims Cathedral in Reims France which is a city in Northeastern France. In our timeline he on 21 January 1793, and later his wife Marie Antoinette on 16 October 1793 who was the Queen of France, would be executed by a revolutionary mob in Paris during the French Revolution, But in this alternate timeline where the French revolution would be a lot different from the one of our timeline, King Louis XVI would live to continue his reign as King of France and stay on the French throne, in this alternate timeline he would live to be a great king, possibly one of the greatest, because he wanted to reform France, help the lower classes, and was a huge promoter of the Enlightenment within France. France under King Louis XVI in this alternate timeline would end up becoming an enlightened monarchy.
I forgot about that one.
 
1772 Partition Of Poland
The Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, a nation in Eastern Europe next to Austria, Prussia, Swedish Pomerania, and Russia, was once a very prosperous country and a a very large country as well, spanning over 1 million sq kilometers which is about 400,000 sq miles, it was united in the 1569 Union of Lublin where Poland and Lithuania merged to become the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and the Polish Monarch was both King of Poland, and Grand Duke Of Lithuania. But its economy was troubled and was in decline due to a series of constant wars from the 17th and 18th centuries, its geographic position was an obvious weakness due to sharing borders with many nations that were at times hostile to the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth such as Prussia and the German states in the west, Sweden in the north, Russia to the east, and Austria to the South.

The elective monarchy was also another factor of the collapse of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth from being a major European power, to basically being a protectorate of the great powers that it bordered, with Russia often interfering in its elections and bribing officials to get policies to be put in place that would benefit the great power of Russia rather than that of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth itself. This led other nations to take advantage of its weakness and so the 1772 Partition of Poland began with Russia beginning to take the eastern part of Poland while Austrians would get the western part of Poland. Sweden was opposed to the partition of Poland with many Swedish people supporting Polish resistance to the Partition of Poland, and Prussia would take less of Poland in this alternate timeline because the Prussians would be severely weakened due to the 1760 Treaty of Paris, which basically partitioned most of Prussia after their defeat in the Seven Years War against France and it’s allies which left Prussia with just Brandenburg and East Pomerania, while Silesia which went to Austria, East Prussia which went to Russia, and West Pomerania which went to Sweden.

1772 Partition Of Poland - Alternate History.jpg
 
Last edited:
1800-1830 Dutch Colonial Empire
Dutch Colonial Empire

The Dutch have had a long history, they in the 16th century, with the help of Queen Elizabeth I of England and than later along with the French as well, helped the Dutch gain independence from the Spanish under Philip II of Spain and the rest of the Habsburg Domains such as the Holy Roman Empire. The Dutch after gaining independence from the Spanish in 1581 became the Dutch Republic, and established a colonial empire all around the world, with the Dutch ceasing some Portuguese colonies such as Ceylon, and even briefly Brazil in 1630 until it was reconquered by the Portuguese in 1657. There was even a Dutch Golden Age where Dutch culture and art were highly influential in the world in the 17th century, the Dutch also were extremely wealthy during the Dutch Golden Age as well due to trade with overseas colonies as well as the Baltic States and Poland which was the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth back then to be exact. The Dutch also had a pretty large interest in naval power in that time period as well and in the 17th century they had the second largest navy, with France being the largest in the world at that time, until Britain became the dominant naval power after the War of the Spanish Succession and Britain held that title as being the dominant naval power until the end of the World Wars.

The Dutch Empire of this timeline, would be stronger due to a different French revolution and the French revolutionaries not invading the Dutch Republic, and replacing it with the Batavian Republic in 1795, which was a client state of France under Napoleon. The British during the Napoleonic wars took some colonies off the Dutch Empire such as the Cape Colony (modern day South Africa) as well as Ceylon (modern day Sri Lanka) and the Straits of Malacca (modern day Singapore), that in this timeline would of course not happen, and the Dutch would keep all of their colonies they had prior to the French revolution and prior to the British taking some of the Dutch colonies, so the Dutch would be much stronger in this timeline, but the Dutch would still have a minor colonial empire compared to that of the British or the French.

Dutch diplomacy in this alternate timeline would be different and confusing at the same time, because with Belgium remaining under Austrian leadership, with the Austrians being Catholics like the Belgians, so Belgium revolting against the Netherlands in this timeline would never of happened, the 1830 breakaway of Belgium from the Netherlands put the Netherlands in favouring neutrality rather than intervening to help maintain the balance of power in Europe. The Dutch Republic would be a British ally due to the Dutch being culturally closer to the British, due to both the British and Dutch being Protestant, and they would worry about France becoming too powerful in Europe, while the Austrian Netherlands being apart of Austria would side with Austria due to the Austrian Netherlands being Catholic.
 
Last edited:
Top