I know is kind of late to comment on the standarts but what if instead of making the standart like the normal ones, maybe do one unique to the Empire? Like instead of only having the Lion and Eagle on each side of the shield, have the Lion, Eagle, Unicorn and Dragon circling it?
Yes definitely. The Lion, Eagle, Unicorn, Dragon, Stag, Wyvern, Deer and others all feature and supporters on various dominion, royal and imperial coats of arms. Hopefully you'll see some more soon
Agrarian strife. Plus London insisting on it. The American dominions really kept their legislative independence due to the distance from the Home Isles. Britain was much less decntralised in the 1870s than it is now.
A thought about a redesigned pan-Nordic flag. I was never quite happy with the old flag as I felt it was too Danish. Here I've coloured the field like the Kalmar Union flag, with a three coloured cross including the principal colours from each member states' flag.
A thought about a redesigned pan-Nordic flag. I was never quite happy with the old flag as I felt it was too Danish. Here I've coloured the field like the Kalmar Union flag, with a three coloured cross including the principal colours from each member states' flag.
[1] - Officially the monarch is styled simply as "King/Queen of Catalonia". However they also hold several historic titles, and the complete royal title is "King of Aragon, of Mallorca, of Valenica, and of Menorca; Count of Cardona, of Rousillon, of Cerdanya, of Barcelona, of Girona, of Osona, and of Besalú".
[2] - Alfons Lluc Folch de Cardona i Manresa, 7th Count of Cardona. Born 1819. A fictionalised descendant of María Teresa Folch de Cardona i Silva, 3rd Countess of Cardona. (Credit to @Damian0358 for the research on this and the background, with Maria Teresa avoiding her OTL marriage and death, leaving her descendants to lead the Catalan War of Independence.)
Yes... and also no. I'm working on a country box and history for Castile. But broadly:
The situation is complicated as the Carlist claimants ITTL reign as Kings of Peru after 1831. Legitimist movements were prominent in Spain during the 19th century, so there is an equivalent of the Carlist Wars (the Legitimist Revolts?), however given that Carlos V and his family are now the Peruvian royal family, the revolts (which historically had a lot of Basque, Catalan, Galician support) are more regionalist in tone - opposing the loss of autonomy. First and Second Revolts take place probably as OTL, the Third Revolt would be counted as part of the Spanish Revolution (1863-1868) and the Fourth (1872-1876) is an a anlogue of the OTL Third, and I reckon this might be when the Bourbon-Parma's assert a claim to the Spanish throne given the Bourbon's exile to Cuba. The Fifth forms part of the Spanish Civil War.
When the modern Castilian monarchy is established, they ask the reigning kings of Cuba, Peru and Santo Domingo, all sons of the last king of the Spanish Antilles (OTL Alfonso XIII). Cuba and Peru refuse, and while Juan Carlos I of Santo Domingo expresses interest, the government threatens to resign on mass if the king accepts. OTL Francisco Javier had fought in the Spanish Civil War, but ITTL he leads the Legitimists against the Nationalists. Fondly remembered by some, his name is suggested and he accepts the throne, becoming King Javier I of Castile.
The 2016 Catalan parliamentary election was held on 16 June 2016 to elect, under the d’hondt method of party list proportional representation, the 277 members of the Chamber of Deputies, the lower house of Catalonia’s bicameral legislature, the Corts Catalanes.
The snap election was called by the incumbent centrist Democratic Union (Unió Democràtica; UDC) minority government in an effort to secure a majority after the opposition parties united to reject the proposed budget. Prime Minister Artur Mas, who had succeeded Rita Barberá in 2015 after her resignation over an investigation into money laundering, went into the election strong, although revelations surrounding the party’s involvement in the Barberá case would have a damaging effect on their support. The opposition centre-left Socialist (Partit Socialista Català; PSC), led by Juan Alberto Belloch would go into the election on the back of their successful performance in the February provincial elections, and early polls gave the PSC an overwhelming lead based on their campaign of financial transparency and improved infrastructure and social investment.
Ultimately the results saw the UDC returned with a smaller plurality, although they were able to secure the support of the centre-right liberal People’s Alliance (Aliança Popular de Catalunya, APdC) led by Albert Rivera, in exchange for concessions on the budget and tax reform. The PSC saw slight gains in their share of the vote, although they failed to come close to dislodging the UDC from power, and Belloch pledged to remain as leader despite some calling for him to step aside. The APdC saw significant gains at this election, and formed a confidence and supply agreement with the UDC. In a vote in the Chamber of Deputies on 15 July, Mas was re-elected as Prime Minister by 147 votes to 130, and sworn in by Queen Joana II that day.
The ecological Initiative for Catalonia Greens (Iniciativa per Catalunya Verds; ICV) lost a single seat despite increasing their share of the vote, whilst the left-wing democratic socialist and Eurosceptic United and Alternative Left (Esquerra Unida i Alternativa; EUiA), under new leader Pablo Echenique Robba, gained a seat at the expense of the UDC. The minor Republican Left (Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya; ERC), which is the only party to advocate for the abolition of the monarchy and the establishment of a Catalan Republic, managed to retain their seven seats despite seeing their percentage of the vote almost halve, a fact attributed to vote splitting in their districts between the PSC and the UDC.
Is there a reason Albert Rivera goes by his official Spanish name ITTL? I saw in an earlier update that Spanish is cooficial (or recognised, not sure), but is it in the whole country or just in areas like Aragon and inner/southern Valencia?
This probably you haven't considered yet, but were there migration waves from southern rest-of-Spain to the Barcelona industrial area like OTL, and if so and you have thought about it, what was the attitude of the government of an independent Catalonia towards them?
Is there a reason Albert Rivera goes by his official Spanish name ITTL? I saw in an earlier update that Spanish is cooficial (or recognised, not sure), but is it in the whole country or just in areas like Aragon and inner/southern Valencia?
Is there a reason Albert Rivera goes by his official Spanish name ITTL? I saw in an earlier update that Spanish is cooficial (or recognised, not sure), but is it in the whole country or just in areas like Aragon and inner/southern Valencia?
Yes indeed Spanish is co-official, but more widely spoken in the south and west. The further northeast you go the less likely you are to hear any Spanish outside of Barcelona.
I realise in hindsight I never really had a good reason for him to be Alberto so I've reverted the name, thanks for pointing it out though
This probably you haven't considered yet, but were there migration waves from southern rest-of-Spain to the Barcelona industrial area like OTL, and if so and you have thought about it, what was the attitude of the government of an independent Catalonia towards them?
Hmm... it's a good question. And something I must remember to include in the updated country write-up I do for Catalonia when it's revamped wikibox is ready.
These migrations would be lessened compared to OTL, given there is now an international (and pretty solid) border between the two countries. Relations between the Spanish Republic and Catalonia would have been frosty at the time. I think the attitude of the Catalan government would have been wary. On the one hand, yes they needed the workers and labour, but on the other they would want to avoid any republican/reactionaries disrupting the country.
Yes indeed. When I recalculated the seats and amended the map, I couldn't get them to take first place in Barcelona - so it never actually made any sense!
I'm always glad to see a new update, and the last string of lore has been a blessing. I really like this bit, but I have a few questions now that I see all of these flags.
Firstly, something I like to ask about in most TLs (that tends to somewhat understandeably be forgotten): the Balkans.
Sort of the South America of Europe in terms of convergence in ATLs, but You've already done better than the vast majority of AH.com's writers in avoiding convergence there. But I digress, this is what I wanted to ask:
Why did you use the Sorbian tricolour for Serbia? Like, did the Serbs just choose a different arrangement of the pan Slavic colors ITTL because butterflies (which does make sense) or is there history behind it? Your flag makes sense. It's a Pan-Slavic tricolor (which is likely given that by the POD , the Russians have already adopted a white-blue-red tricolor and are the only ones in a position to support Slavic independence movements). it has red and blue together, resembling the flag of the medieval Serbian king Stefan Vladislav, which some believe to have influenced the flag IOTL. The specific arrangement of the colors was just chosen during negotiations between the Ottomans and Serbian rebels, so there's no reason for it to be the same as IOTL, but, I was wondering if there was a reason why it isn't.
Croatia and Slovenia, though, seem a smidge convergent (it's the coats of arms). Is the Croatian flag just the OTL one? If it is, that mostly makes sense, except the crown. Unless Croatia claims Ragusa, the Red and Blue striped bit on the crown on top of the COA (which is based on Ragusa's old coat of arms), probably shouldn't be there. Though that is a SUPER tiny detail. Also, Slovenia seems to be using the OTL coat of arms, which is super new and quite unlikely to be the same in an ATL, but again, small detail I understand why you would't make a whole coat of arms for a country that only show up in a few lists in wikiboxes.
I see Slovenia is a vertical tricolor WITHOUT THE LIGHTEST COLOR IN THE MIDDLE, and I have to say, I'm a fan. Quality stuff, and quite rare even in ATLs. 11/10.
Montenegro's also quite convergent, but 1) enough nitpicking for now and 2) I can't even imagine a non-Balkan TL putting significant thought into the flag of Montenegro.
Secondly: Where is New Israel? Have I missed information about it? It seems interesting. Is it just OTLs Israel or is it a different Jewish state as its name sort of implies?
Sorry for the long post. I tend to ramble a bit.
Also, please don't take any of these as insults or demands that you change things, I'm just curious why certain things ended up the way they did, because I want to know more about the world of TTLAlso, having no answers for questions about super specific details is obviously more than reasonable but if there is thought behind these thing, first of all, I tip my hat to you, and second, I'm interested in knowing what it is.
I love this TL as it is, it's one of the best on this site, so don't let my nitpicking about the flags of South Slavic countries get to you.
Why did you use the Sorbian tricolour for Serbia? Like, did the Serbs just choose a different arrangement of the pan Slavic colors ITTL because butterflies (which does make sense) or is there history behind it? Your flag makes sense. It's a Pan-Slavic tricolor (which is likely given that by the POD , the Russians have already adopted a white-blue-red tricolor and are the only ones in a position to support Slavic independence movements). it has red and blue together, resembling the flag of the medieval Serbian king Stefan Vladislav, which some believe to have influenced the flag IOTL. The specific arrangement of the colors was just chosen during negotiations between the Ottomans and Serbian rebels, so there's no reason for it to be the same as IOTL, but, I was wondering if there was a reason why it isn't.
Croatia and Slovenia, though, seem a smidge convergent (it's the coats of arms). Is the Croatian flag just the OTL one? If it is, that mostly makes sense, except the crown. Unless Croatia claims Ragusa, the Red and Blue striped bit on the crown on top of the COA (which is based on Ragusa's old coat of arms), probably shouldn't be there. Though that is a SUPER tiny detail. Also, Slovenia seems to be using the OTL coat of arms, which is super new and quite unlikely to be the same in an ATL, but again, small detail I understand why you would't make a whole coat of arms for a country that only show up in a few lists in wikiboxes.
I see Slovenia is a vertical tricolor WITHOUT THE LIGHTEST COLOR IN THE MIDDLE, and I have to say, I'm a fan. Quality stuff, and quite rare even in ATLs. 11/10.
Montenegro's also quite convergent, but 1) enough nitpicking for now and 2) I can't even imagine a non-Balkan TL putting significant thought into the flag of Montenegro.
Given I'm the one involved in Balkanic affairs, it's only fair I answered these. So, about the flags;
* the use of that tricolor for the Serbs is inspired by a supposed flag design from the First Serbian Uprising
* the Slovenian flag is inspired by one of the designs proposed OTL in 2003, merged with a design I had previously proposed to Leinad which went from top to bottom, blue, red and white, basically the upside down version of the TTL Serbian flag (which I clearly just rotated in line with that proposed design); you're right on the coat, but we felt it was good enough for what was needed, plus it helped add a bit more to the flag
* the Croatian, and Montenegrin flags, are as per OTL, mainly out of convenience - for the latter, we thought it was nice and still worked for what was needed; while for the latter, you have to consider that Ragusa was introduced to the timeline some time after the big Balkan update happened, so that detail on the coat may have just slipped passed
* I joked privately to Leinad that, had the Slovenian flag just been the upside down version of the TTL Serbian flag, then the OTL Serbian flag could've been used for the Sorbs TTL (since in such a scenario, their OTL flag would be used by Slovenia), but given the design chosen for the Slovenes, you can assume the Sorbian flag TTL is the same as OTL (which means we got a good gag out of it, with the Serbs and the Sorbs having parallel designs TTL)
Aside from the meta reasoning, TTL the Serbian Uprising ended in 1807, with no overt Russian involvement, so circumstances could've developed where a different flag design was used, and the amount of butterflies can be used to explain how the Slovenian design was subtly changed as well. The Montenegrin flag, design-wise, combining the colors of the war banner used by King Nikola I with the double-headed eagle, inspired by rulers prior, just makes sense. Meanwhile, the Croatian flag has a fair good footing OTL for why its colors turned out the way it did, so why mess with it? We have only so many ways to combine red, white and blue on a tricolor, after all.
Secondly: Where is New Israel? Have I missed information about it? It seems interesting. Is it just OTLs Israel or is it a different Jewish state as its name sort of implies?Sorry for the long post. I tend to ramble a bit.
I'm always glad to see a new update, and the last string of lore has been a blessing. I really like this bit, but I have a few questions now that I see all of these flags.
Firstly, something I like to ask about in most TLs (that tends to somewhat understandeably be forgotten): the Balkans.
Sort of the South America of Europe in terms of convergence in ATLs, but You've already done better than the vast majority of AH.com's writers in avoiding convergence there.
Thanks though to be honest it was @Damian0358 who did a lot of the leg work on the Balkans. But it was definitely a region I didn't want to forget about!
Why did you use the Sorbian tricolour for Serbia? Like, did the Serbs just choose a different arrangement of the pan Slavic colors ITTL because butterflies (which does make sense) or is there history behind it? Your flag makes sense. It's a Pan-Slavic tricolor (which is likely given that by the POD , the Russians have already adopted a white-blue-red tricolor and are the only ones in a position to support Slavic independence movements). it has red and blue together, resembling the flag of the medieval Serbian king Stefan Vladislav, which some believe to have influenced the flag IOTL. The specific arrangement of the colors was just chosen during negotiations between the Ottomans and Serbian rebels, so there's no reason for it to be the same as IOTL, but, I was wondering if there was a reason why it isn't.
Given I'm the one involved in Balkanic affairs, it's only fair I answered these. So, about the flags;
* the use of that tricolor for the Serbs is inspired by a supposed flag design from the First Serbian Uprising
Yep, this is base on a design from the First Serbian Uprising, which is obviously successful ITTL. Still includes the Pan-Slavic colours. There's no real reason behind the placement of the colours.
Croatia and Slovenia, though, seem a smidge convergent (it's the coats of arms). Is the Croatian flag just the OTL one? If it is, that mostly makes sense, except the crown. Unless Croatia claims Ragusa, the Red and Blue striped bit on the crown on top of the COA (which is based on Ragusa's old coat of arms), probably shouldn't be there. Though that is a SUPER tiny detail. Also, Slovenia seems to be using the OTL coat of arms, which is super new and quite unlikely to be the same in an ATL, but again, small detail I understand why you would't make a whole coat of arms for a country that only show up in a few lists in wikiboxes.
I see Slovenia is a vertical tricolor WITHOUT THE LIGHTEST COLOR IN THE MIDDLE, and I have to say, I'm a fan. Quality stuff, and quite rare even in ATLs. 11/10.
Montenegro's also quite convergent, but 1) enough nitpicking for now and 2) I can't even imagine a non-Balkan TL putting significant thought into the flag of Montenegro.
* the Slovenian flag is inspired by one of the designs proposed OTL in 2003, merged with a design I had previously proposed to Leinad which went from top to bottom, blue, red and white, basically the upside down version of the TTL Serbian flag (which I clearly just rotated in line with that proposed design); you're right on the coat, but we felt it was good enough for what was needed, plus it helped add a bit more to the flag
* the Croatian, and Montenegrin flags, are as per OTL, mainly out of convenience - for the latter, we thought it was nice and still worked for what was needed; while for the former, you have to consider that Ragusa was introduced to the timeline some time after the big Balkan update happened, so that detail on the coat may have just slipped passed
Yes the Slovene coat of arms is convergent, but works for the purpose. Glad you like the vertical tricolor, its certainly an interesting design
Montenegro works, so no reason to change it.
With regards to Croatia, I completely dropped the ball on that - I've amended the flag to be the Banate flag.
Ragusa is interesting, though it's history doesn't actually overwrite anything relating to the Balkans that came before:
Broadly speaking, the Republic lobbies to be reestablished after the Napoleonic Wars, but accepts a Habsburg as Prince (probable the Tuscan branch as the Medicis still reign) under Austian suzerainty. Ragusa is nominally independent but effectively a vassal state under the Austrian Empire. Hand waving ensures the Dalmatian language survives. After the First World War, the principality is ended and merges into Yugoslavia. After the Second World War, when formally Axis-aligned Croatia joins the Allies, the city-state is re-established as part of the treaty recognising Croatian independence, neutrality, and maintaining the Feštetić monarchy. It serves as an Allied naval base on the Adriatic.
* I joked privately to Leinad that, had the Slovenian flag just been the upside down version of the TTL Serbian flag, then the OTL Serbian flag could've been used for the Sorbs TTL (since in such a scenario, their OTL flag would be used by Slovenia), but given the design chosen for the Slovenes, you can assume the Sorbian flag TTL is the same as OTL (which means we got a good gag out of it, with the Serbs and the Sorbs having parallel designs TTL)
Aside from the meta reasoning, TTL the Serbian Uprising ended in 1807, with no overt Russian involvement, so circumstances could've developed where a different flag design was used, and the amount of butterflies can be used to explain how the Slovenian design was subtly changed as well. The Montenegrin flag, design-wise, combining the colors of the war banner used by King Nikola I with the double-headed eagle, inspired by rulers prior, just makes sense. Meanwhile, the Croatian flag has a fair good footing OTL for why its colors turned out the way it did, so why mess with it? We have only so many ways to combine red, white and blue on a tricolor, after all.
Secondly: Where is New Israel? Have I missed information about it? It seems interesting. Is it just OTLs Israel or is it a different Jewish state as its name sort of implies?
New Israel is indeed the revised name of the Jewish state in East Prussia. Its native Yiddish name is different, but that is the official English language name.
Also, please don't take any of these as insults or demands that you change things, I'm just curious why certain things ended up the way they did, because I want to know more about the world of TTLAlso, having no answers for questions about super specific details is obviously more than reasonable but if there is thought behind these thing, first of all, I tip my hat to you, and second, I'm interested in knowing what it is.
I love this TL as it is, it's one of the best on this site, so don't let my nitpicking about the flags of South Slavic countries get to you.
