Elysium..., a Roman America TL
- Thread starter Paladín Wulfen
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Hold up. Did you get the distances mixed up? Mars is only 78 million km from Earth while the moon is 110 to 160 million km? How would the moon be further from the Earth then Mars?
It was the theory mostly. Apart this chapter was do for ask from a friend.. I dont have good exp with astronomy or similar.
PS: i am writing from phone so sorry muy grammar
Chapter 33 Caesar Manio Annaeus Mercator 2027 AUC / 1274 AD - 2043 AUC / 1290 AD
Adopted from an family from the Provincia Imperial, Manio Annaeus Mercator was one of the most senior members of the patricianes. His refusals to cooperate with the provincial faction in the Senate aggravated the friction between the princeps and Senatus.
After the Elysium-Toltec War, Altepetl Tollan had settled into a relatively stable balance of power. Although militarily more powerful, the Toltecs were plagued by conflict with the Maya to the southeast. While the Mayans looked down on the Toltecs, the latter were a center of learning and were technologically superior, with greater access to iron for weapons, as well as the benefits of traditional Toltec knowledge. Everything changed in 2027 AUC (1274 AD) when the people of Aztlán (Aztecs) from the city of Tenochtitlan and tributaries of the Toltec Empire, decided to rise up in rebellion. The civil war was a conflict that polarized Imperial Toltec society along class lines, with the aristocracy supporting the Toltecs and the middle and lower classes along with the Army supporting the Aztecs.
Facing overwhelming odds, the Toltecs fought back against the hardened Aztecs by serving as shock troops for the Empire through a combination of regular and irregular tactics. Irregular tactics included (but were not limited to) scorched earth defenses; surprise attacks; urban fires; well and barn poisonings; murders; and herding by placing warriors through the strategic placement of unarmed civilians fleeing combat. In some cases, guerrilla tactics were even more extreme. The Toltecs having a larger reserve of horses than the Aztecs used this reserve to stampede flaming horses against Aztec camps prior to an assault.
The Aztecs in the end had no scruples and decided to carry out a scorched earth campaign. However, discipline and desertion became major issues for both sides; The Aztecs instituted severe corporal punishment for any infraction committed against the orders. Taking advantage of the opportunity, in the end the Aztecs reached the Toltec capital. Unopposed, he proceeded to sack the city. The Toltec garrison, unwilling to be withdrawn, held its position in the city's citadel. Frustrated, the Aztec Commander ordered the citadel to be taken by force. The Aztecs encountered the Toltec Royal Guard armed with iron armor and weapons. Although ultimately successful, the Aztecs suffered hundreds of casualties. Shortly after completing the conquest, the city lost 50,000 inhabitants out of 250,000. The war culminated when the Toltec Imperial Family was betrayed and handed over to the Aztecs who sacrificed the men to the gods while the women were married to members of importance.
For other part, Elysium had many goods to offer the South by trade. Elysean glass was highly prized in Mexico and Chimú Empire (north coast of Peru), where the art of making glass was unknown. While panes of glass for home windows were not commonly traded, lenses and vases were extremely popular items. In the last century, a prominent glassmaking industry developed around the Neronia city of Colonia Russus (OTL: Austin, TX). Colonia Russus was the first and finest producer of crystalline glass (lead glass) in the world.
Aside from glass, Elyseans merchants traded in Elysean rugs, alongside other high quality textiles; furs, from the northern reaches of the empire; metal ingots, although merchants were forbidden to trade Pistorian steel; and wine or grapes. In general, prices of most commodities relative to the cost of grain or gold were higher in the Elysium Empire than in Mexico, Mesoamerica, or Southern, sometimes making mundane Elysean goods such as cloth, fruit, ingots, jars, etc. competitive in price even over long trade routes like from Colonia Caesaropolis Maritimae to Peru.
A new culinary trend began in the southwest of the Empire, after spreading from local practices in Mexico. Some locals had discovered that a certain mixture created by grinding cocoa beans into a paste and mixing it with water, cornmeal, chili peppers and other ingredients produced a remarkable drink which was then poured from a glass into a pot to form the drink with a thick foam. In California, the elite had started calling it Scelerisque. By the end of the 12th century, Scelerisque (Chocolate) had become very popular in the Empire and some mercinae (shops) served chocolate, at first the "raw" drink had a pungent and bitter taste that some found unpleasant until a businessman from Cuba decided to use sugar grown in Cuba, which had been brought from Arabia to the New World in Roman colonial times. The result made the drink more palatable and more famous, to the point of becoming popular even in Augusta Elysium. The first mercina Sceleriscana (Chocolate Shop) opened in Portus Magnum Fluvius as a place where customers were served hot or cold Chocolate and given space to sit and chat. Scholars frequented these shops and found the drink stimulating for long philosophical or political speeches.
Ten years later, the first Sceleriscana opened in Augusta Elysium, becoming a popular destination for senators to discuss recent debates or share political news. Just a decade later, the poet and satirist Calistus commented on the effect of the Chocolate Shops on the political environment of the empire, blaming the Chocolate Shops for helping spark civil war. In short, these tents were the perfect setting to periodically meet with the conspirators in small groups to discuss plans without the meetings attracting particular attention. Dinner parties were unfeasible as there would always be wives, slaves, and often other close families who were out of the loop and the gardens had already become notorious for conspiracies, making them the least desirable for royal conspiracies. A Chocolate Shop was separate enough to be able to have conversations in private, giving the perfect excuse to meet up at short notice with very specific friends, and was open enough compared to the gardens to avoid the possibility of someone secretly eavesdropping on conversations.
Facing overwhelming odds, the Toltecs fought back against the hardened Aztecs by serving as shock troops for the Empire through a combination of regular and irregular tactics. Irregular tactics included (but were not limited to) scorched earth defenses; surprise attacks; urban fires; well and barn poisonings; murders; and herding by placing warriors through the strategic placement of unarmed civilians fleeing combat. In some cases, guerrilla tactics were even more extreme. The Toltecs having a larger reserve of horses than the Aztecs used this reserve to stampede flaming horses against Aztec camps prior to an assault.
For other part, Elysium had many goods to offer the South by trade. Elysean glass was highly prized in Mexico and Chimú Empire (north coast of Peru), where the art of making glass was unknown. While panes of glass for home windows were not commonly traded, lenses and vases were extremely popular items. In the last century, a prominent glassmaking industry developed around the Neronia city of Colonia Russus (OTL: Austin, TX). Colonia Russus was the first and finest producer of crystalline glass (lead glass) in the world.
Aside from glass, Elyseans merchants traded in Elysean rugs, alongside other high quality textiles; furs, from the northern reaches of the empire; metal ingots, although merchants were forbidden to trade Pistorian steel; and wine or grapes. In general, prices of most commodities relative to the cost of grain or gold were higher in the Elysium Empire than in Mexico, Mesoamerica, or Southern, sometimes making mundane Elysean goods such as cloth, fruit, ingots, jars, etc. competitive in price even over long trade routes like from Colonia Caesaropolis Maritimae to Peru.
If someone starts a civil war, there is a good chance the population would rise up against him. A minimum of unity isn't easily forgotten. Even with the differences between those of the core and those outside of it. The rim territories will also resemble the core more as time goes on
I think you might be overestimating potential Elysium’s unity there. No Empire is perfect, and if someone can get a certain number of legions on their side, that will be enough.
Honestly I think it’s about time Elysium had to deal with a civil war. You can’t be a true successor to Rome without at least one of two of them.
Soooo are you sure that the atzec can be the focal point of a rural revolt ,the guys were so loathed for their tributes for religious sacrifices that the subjects revolted themselves with the first newcomer ( Cortez), it's like a religious nutjob become appealing without reason. And are they the socio culturally the same as our otl history ?
Chapter 34 Caesar Marius Junius Silanus 2043 AUC / 1290 AD - 2068 AUC / 1315 AD
Born of provincial parents, that is, of citizens who settle in the provinces, Marius had a deep connection with the new provinces throughout his life. Marius's reign seemed as if it would be like that of any other emperor in times of peace, consolidating and enriching the nation. One of the most prominent initiatives was a new castella model called Castellum Stella: Compared to medieval fortifications, Castellum Stella became shorter and larger in area than regular Castrum, providing defense in depth, with tiers of defenses that an attacker needed to overcome to reach the inner layers of defenses.
On the other hand, the Feminalia (Shorts Pants) and Braccae (Pants) became popular again and began to be used as military and civilian garments while being manufactured in a variety of materials including leather, wool and cotton. In Augusta Elysium, Senators were prohibited from wearing Feminalias or Braccae in sessions and were required to wear robes for any ceremonial or official act. Such was the fame of the Braccae that the women of the harshest territories who used Braccae began to be called Amazon in reference to the women warriors and hunters, who equaled men in martiality.
When Marius was away, the Senate remained divided on his support. However, the issue was ultimately brought to a close when nearly a fifth of senators were killed by praetorian guards, under the order of the Dominarch, on the symbolic ides of March at the start of a meeting of the assembly. In the wake of this massacre, other guards went about the city murdering equites (knights) who had known loyalties to Marius, effectively purging the capital of his supporters. By the following day, every man of note who had openly stood behind the emperor was dead, except for tribuni, censores, and sacerdotes, whose deaths would have made a public outrage against the murders unquenchable.
With one of the two consul, praetor urbanus, and over a fifty local magistrates in support of the rebellion, the conspirators had only a small amount of trouble quelling the unrest that followed, largely focused around compensating the clients and family of the deceased as well as instituting mandatory curfews for "public safety". News traveled slowly to the emperor, reaching his sons in the western provinces almost a year before he was aware that his authority had been overthrown. Although it took months for the news to reach, due to the stifling of the postal service, another five months passed before Marius heard. By that time, he responded immediately to the revolution. His messengers informed him that his son had maintained control of while loyal legates had the provinces southern at the very least.
In this way, the stage was set for the Bellum Civile (Civil War) between the family of Marius and the remnants of the Senate.
Brother took arms against brother.
Cities across the nation would turned into brutal warzones.
More bitter words would never spoken.
Secundus Bello Civili
Brother took arms against brother.
Cities across the nation would turned into brutal warzones.
More bitter words would never spoken.
Secundus Bello Civili
Chapter 35 Magna Bello Civili 2068 AUC / 1315 AD - 2118 AUC / 1365 AD
For the time being, a timeline of events in the civil war suffices to outline its procession and explain its outcome. However, first a brief summary of the military and political situation toward the beginning of the civil war is needed.
Unlike the Senate, Caesar Marius Silanus started with the disadvantage of having a less industrial power then Core Provinces. As for armies, Marius began the war with twenty-one legions, leaving him in control of half of the forty legions that constituted the professional branch of the Elysium army at the time. He had little trouble swelling his forces by another five legions within the first decade of the civil war.
With control over the capital, the Senate maintained an element of legitimacy that Marius could not muster but they needed this support to mitigate the effect of their revolution against the emperor. Many common citizens and noble citizens saw the emperor as the symbol of Elysium and continued to be entirely unwilling to support those who would overturn his lawful authority.
The war was characterized by a more widespread adoption of firearms in combination with more traditional bladed weapons such as spears and swords. Armies were built around mass infantry units armed with the newly created smoothbore Flintlock muskets and bayonets. Light cavalry was reduced primarily for reconnaissance, detection, and tactical communications, while heavy cavalry was reduced as a tactical reserve and deployed for shock attacks. The artillery obtained fire support and played the main role in siege warfare. Strategic warfare in this period focused on control of key fortifications positioned to dominate neighboring regions and roads, with prolonged sieges a common feature of armed conflict. Military logistics were the deciding factor on several fronts, as armies became too large to stabilize on prolonged campaigns by harvesting alone. Military supplies are stored in centralized locations and distributed by baggage trains that were highly vulnerable to enemy raids. Armies were generally unable to sustain combat operations during the winter and normally established winter quarters in the cold season, resuming their campaigns with the return of spring.
At the time of the Civil War, the Star Forts covered practically the entire territory of the Empire. During the battles at Kiowanus and Faunina, the Senatorial forces found it necessary to capture Star Forts, something that had never been done before and was considered impossible at the time. However, they tried and, with the help of two Testudos, they managed to get through the front door and take it. Battles set in Star Forts became a defining feature of the war, seeing some of the biggest skirmishes, so the taking of a Star Fort was almost synonymous with the Civil War itself. Throughout the course of the war, more than 200 of these forts were besieged and taken, with dozens of them completely destroyed in the process. Because both sides had access to numerous Testudos, literally neither side was sufficiently fortified.
The two nations also developed their own unique methods of government during this time period. The Senatorial Empire retained its Senate, although it was increased to 1,000 members. Special governors, former senators, were produced as provincial heads and continued the consular system of maintaining national federations within the state. However, these Consuls became more important with the creation of a second parliamentary organization, the Consular Congress, which assumed the executive powers once held by the government. In contrast, in the Imperial Empire, a Praetorian Council was founded to support the Emperor and offer a measure of representation for the population. This, unlike the Congress, was highly unpopular with most of Elysium's inhabitants and was a continual source of pain for the Imperials.
By 2110, the fires of the Civil War had died down somewhat and a stable but fluctuating border soon emerged along the front line, with constant comings and goings over the last several decades. The populations of both sides never got used to this constant state of war and resentment towards both governments only increased over time until finally, in the Saturnalia of 2115 AUC (1362 AD), in the vicinity of Civis Caocia. Fed up with endless fighting, legionnaires on both sides began to question the authority of their officers. But not only the soldiers, but even many officers, refused to continue fighting. The riot initially broke out in Caociana and Magnum Fluvius, spreading rapidly; Soldiers began chanting anti-war slogans and gathering in assemblies. Quickly, the movement spreads throughout the army, reaching its peak between the end of May and the beginning of June 2116.
More than half of the units deployed on the front for both sides will be affected, with special incidence in the units of infantry; some officers are attacked by their men being surrounded officers before being executed by the main rebel officers several units even announce their intention to march on the respective capital: Aureum Ostium or Augusta Elysium. If we add to this deep discontent, the exhaustion due to the terrible combat conditions, the incessant fighting, the deplorable living conditions and incidents such as the Second Battle of Colonia Prima Memphina, where on the night of April 24 to 25. A Senatorial recruit is killed by an old Imperial legionnaire, only to discover that it is his own son. Such events were fuel for the fire of military discontent. Who despite their burning desire for peace, most soldiers continue to identify themselves as true patriots. They only intend to modify the conditions in which they fight, turning war into something less arbitrary and more humane. Thus, although they refuse to return to combat, they continue to defend their positions until the end of the altercations. The mutinies were mainly protests by the soldiers against the conditions at the front and against the operations of the high command, although they had
Things did not change until the rebels chose Marcus Publius Pugnatus as their leader. Pugnatus, eager for change, spent a long time contemplating what he could do to end the suffering of his people. Meeting with his loyalists one day, he presented the radical idea of simply claiming the Imperial throne from the people of the Empire. His own popularity and his position were higher and it seemed that such a thing might be possible. Having already had his loyals spread the message, the general boldly asked the people to unite behind him as the new Emperor. Within days, the Senate House in Elysium Augustus and Provincial/Imperial Palace in Aureum Ostium were stormed by angry citizens and both governments forced to give up power to the General.
And this right here is why I think the Empire’s current size is too large to be sustainable at its current level of technology. News still travels too slowly in a Empire that is simply too big, meaning critical events could happen that take months for people who need to handle the situation to learn about it.
It’s also why some culture drift in my view is unavoidable here. No matter the fact that they all emanate from the same culture, the Empire’s large size means that people, cities, and provinces furtherest from the core regions of the Empire are going to experience culture drift/start developing their own variants of culture’s. You can’t have a culture that is consistent throughout the Empire that spans an entire continent without more industrial communication technology like the telegraph, radio, or telephone, or industrial travel technologies like the the railroad. Even today in OTL, different states in the US are different from in The US have their own different cultures, and the same would be increasingly true of the various provinces here.
Ultimately I predict, as I stated previously, that Elysium is probably going to have a mini-bulkanization, and split into two or three Empires. It just seems unavoidable to me. The fact it’s remained this large after all this time is honestly a miracle. Would not be shocked if this Civil War ends with one Empire lead by Pugnatus, and another by Marius and his family/heirs.
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in a normal case, it would be correct but elysium has a brutal and strong fixation on several things: nationalism, army and infrastructure.
Elysium has seen the fall of Rome and its consequences, the feeling of separation is almost heretical, a civil war is more a conflict of political interests than something that triggers a secession.
Infrastructures: a Roman and later Elysian legion is capable of performing as a unit of engineers in a role similar to the US Corps of Engineers, a network of roads, bridges in good condition and the existence of a postal service equivalent to the Pony Expres or Yanma Mongol facilitates the communications situation.
Infrastructure: Haaay a long history of Roman Emperors arising from the Legions. Apart from known events such as a father killing his own son to discover in the middle of the battle are acts that motivate more those generals who watch over their men.
Remember: Gloria Ex Imperium
Why would it be that ? In what way?
It's a civil war about the authority of the emperor vs the senatorial forces .
It's not about slaves or the power of the central state Vs the outlying provinces.
Sorry pal but we are still talking about a medieval state and not a federal republic
I think he meant that it's their equivalent of the ACW in the sense of being one of the most pivotal points in their history.
I think with this situation, the Empire need to implement "a separation of powers/checks and balances" to make sure that the power isn't completely centered towards the Emperor or the Senate, preventing them from gaining too much power. This can prevent this kind of civil war or that Nero guy from happening again. I doubt it will completely stop this but it certainly muddle the chances of having this kind of scenario. Maybe
The drawbacks seem to far outweigh any hypothetical advantages, not forgetting that this is based on assumptions about politics and human nature that it is extremely doubtful that they exist on Elysium. Plus you have too many people invested in the system as it is. It's not going to happen. Or not in that way at least.
Yeah. Sadly, the Elysians are just used to that kind of system. In fact, there is no such thing as a Roman without the term "civil war".
The war occurred primarily over internal political issues:
The Patricians would like more centralization and importance in the eastern territories (east coast)
The Provincials would like more importance and a level comparable to the East Coast on the West Coast.
Logically, the fact that the penultimate emperor was threatened to choose another successor because of the Provincials caused the Patricians to activate the Coup d'état.
Without forgetting that the fact of implementing a system of "checks & balances" does not at all guarantee avoiding a future civil war. On the contrary, it probably encourages it, simply because it leads to stagnation and blockage as a result of the three branches of power beginning to see each other as irreconcilable enemies who must be screwed at the expense of the welfare of the State. And, of course, of the people who inhabit it.