Seems like most of us want to see Elysium returning to Europe rather than Europeans finding them. That said it wouldn’t be via plane but OTL 19th century iron clad warships. Which would he just as mysterious and inspire as much fear in medieval Europe
Elysium..., a Roman America TL
- Thread starter Paladín Wulfen
- Start date
Me too. I mean at some point they are going to have no more lands in the Americas to pursue so going back to Europe is likely.
I still want to see them pursue a world conquest after retaking Europe
Meh, 'Asia' (China, India...) is more trouble then it's worth. It's cultures are simply too different and they are too many to grind them down for assimilation
From my point of view it is a little early to say that they will conquer all the Americas at the moment they have the most people in the east 4 or 5 millions in the west , and they subjectated the west after a long grueling war in themselves , they have a sophisticated ancient industrial base cool but they don't have a navy worth shit , the weapons are big 16th muskets but they don't really have a need to make better weapons realistically.
At least in this the atzetc will not gonna rise .
At least in this the atzetc will not gonna rise .
True and same goes for a full european invasion. Just impractical in terms of distance, manpower and money. Though it'd be interesting to see how their relationship with China and India (Two countries they always viewed as wealthy) develop and whether they'll (in the far future) set up some sort of Exclave/Puppet/etc in the general area of Rome or Constaninople.
I agree and that’s why I made a post a few pages back hoping for an emperor to declare himself a god and a descendant of Jesus Christ and Western Europe views that emperor likewise. Could even be done by that emperor staying in Europe and Elysium just letting him stay there and a new WRE forms as a result.
Paladín Wulfen
Kicked
No... Tienen mosquetes del siglo XVI y tácticas del mismo siglo.
Los japoneses, especialmente Oda Nobunaga, desarrollaron una táctica de fuego escalonado que permitió a 3000 soldados disparar 1000 tiros a la vez en 1575 durante la Batalla de Nagashino.
Its you.... 1633
Chapter XXIX Caesar Gaius Cassius Rufo 1916 AUC / 1163 AD - 1969 AUC / 1216 AD
Paladín Wulfen
Kicked
Only a young senator when he was adopted, Gaius Cassius Rufo was raised as the son of the Elysium Empire's most politically influential family, whose patriarch served as a Censor upholding the interests of citizens living outside core provinces(i.e. of provincials). By a narrow margin, Cassius was chosen by the Senate during an ambiguous succession. His election was a major victory for the Provinciales faction of senators against the growing patricianis faction. Since this faction remained dominant, the Senate and Caesar were forced to continue selling public land (ager publicus) to sustain the spending required to provide services to the provinces.
By the late 11th century, some blacksmiths had spent an entire career working with steel. These uncommon craftsmen would have apprenticed under master ironsmiths who only learned about norica pistoriana (crucible steel) partway through their lifetimes. Guilds whose influence reached across the Elysean Empire spread the techniques developed by Pistorius Mica for forging a durable and flexible steel in clay crucibles. By the reign of Cassius, this tradition had been practiced enough that steelsmiths could make steel tools of the same form as tools made from ferrum (iron) or cuprum (copper). Where early steelsmiths were limited to simple shapes, this new generation could create steel armor and steel trinkets.
The Senate took advantage of these developments in metalworking skills by outfitting all of its legionaries with steel plate armor. Before 1900 AUC, most legionary armor was made from noric steel, a mineralogically distinct and durable type of iron, but by 1920, the majority of legionaries had armor crafted from pistorian steel with ridged patterns for deflecting blades and arrows. The significance of this transition for the abilities of the Legion is hard to overstate, given the extra durability of the new steel. Suffice it to say that a legionary of the late-11th century could take dozens of direct blows without harm from the weapons of contemporary kingdoms.
Steel armor completed the transition of Elysean military equipment into an age of steel. Some of the first items made from the new steel were gladius swords and arrowheads for the Legion, leaving body armor one of the last things to be upgraded. In general, Elysium now possessed drastically superior military technology than its neighbors, with weapons and armor rivalled only by two powers in the world (Song China and Ayyubid Sultanate). An arrowhead used by a sagittarius (legion archer) was a case-hardened broadhead piece of steel with four symmetrical blades, an time-consuming but rewarding weapon to forge. Swords for legionaries were becoming more and more elaborate as steelworking improved but the overall design of the gladius remained largely unchanged. Furthermore, the scutum (rectangular shield) had been redesigned without the central boss, for replacement by a layer of steel over the wood.
A Kataphractos of the equestrian order was outfitted with the heaviest steel plate armor by the mid-11th century, covering him from his head to his feet. Although Cassius reduced their numbers to 300 for each legion, their effectiveness in the new steel armor was definitively superior to their more numerous noric steel armored predecessors. This reduction in numbers was part of a gradual but continuous demilitarization implemented by Cassius, resulting in the disbanding of forty (40) legions from eighty (80) Legions in active. by 1954. In general, the year 1954 was a milestone set by the emperor to reduce the size of the Legion in the face of the crushing deficits that could only be matched by selling valuable public land.
In any case, the difference between pistorian steel and other varieties of steel is difficult to overstate. This crucible steel is forged with a remarkable purity between 1-2% carbon content. Normally, highly brittle structures form in the steel at this level of purity but Pistorius Mica used repeated forging cycles to group this brittle material into thin lines. In many ways, the complicated forging of this steel may be Mica's greatest and most complex invention. Blades forged from this process could hold a sharper edge or point than with other metals and armor forged using this steel was nearly impossible in practice to penetrate and did not permanently deform as easily as other plate armor (although it had a tendency to deform slightly with heavy blows).
Due to the exotic forge and skill requirements of pistorian steel, only a small percentage of Elysean ironsmiths were able to forge ingots or objects of such high quality metal. However, the Legion was guaranteed a steady supply of arms and armor from local smiths with the right capabilities. Although pistorian steel was expensive, the costs saved from not transporting equipment from Noricum, the only source of noric steel, to the frontiers made the transition to pistorian steel only marginally more expensive.
One of the most important applications of steel by the Legion was in its artillery. The elasticity of pistorian steel combined with its durability made it ideal for the polytrahoi (semi-automatic artillery), manuballistae (handheld long-range crossbow), and Calanum (cannon). In general, steel crossbows were a major advancement in weapons technology that gave the Legion an advantage against the enemies. However, the Elysium were aware that the Toltec armed its heavy infantry with iron who learned how apply in armors and weapons.
With the Senate focused on exploring the continent, motivated by the profits coming its way through trade, other Elysium were exploring the world on their own initiative. Many of these journeys were motivated somehow by the publication that speculated on the direction of the next great threat to the empire.
On these headings, one expedition left from Cuba and another from Provincia Superi Caesariensis (British Columbia). The first expedition returned after discovered the so-called "Pearl Islands" off the coast of the land with abundant pearl oysters while the second never returned. News of their failure dissuaded further attempt to discover the called Terra Barbarus Septentrionalis, although it is probably that other people made attempts with no record left behind of their journey.
At the same time, a few Elyseans set out from the coast of the Oceanus Atlanticus to find more islands. These expeditions employed recent developments in sailing technology, passed onto Elysium from Boreanii. Northern longships were exceptional craft which resulted from unprecedented developments in shipbuilding.
First, the hull of a longship consisted of overlapping planks as opposed to joining planks of wood by inserting tenons on one plank into a mortise cavity on another. This clinker build allowed for a lighter and more durable hull. By 1949 AUC, river boats were mostly clinker-built and the design was occasionally employed in seafaring vessels. Second, the northmen rigged their primary sails using horizontal spars connecting perpendicularly to the mast of the ship. This square-rigging allowed a ship to have larger sails for catching more wind, permitting higher speeds on the open sea. However, unlike the popular lateen-rigging, a square rig could not sail upwind by beating, limit its use under less ideal conditions.
Together, these two new technologies would not produce the most impressive ocean-going vessel but the invention that changed navigation forever was the fusion of square-rigging and lateen-rigging into one vessel. Shipwrights in Civis Nova Olisippo created a 19 meter long clinker-built ship whose central mast or mainmast was square-rigged and whose rear mast or mizzenmast was lateen-rigged. This vessel operated completely without rowing but still resembled the larger decareme and quinquereme galleys used by the navy since behind the masts was a massive aftcastle for additional crew quarters. Due to its unique sails and large size for merchant vessels, ships of this new design came to be referred to as amplaves (s. amplavis) by Elysean sailors.
The Senate took advantage of these developments in metalworking skills by outfitting all of its legionaries with steel plate armor. Before 1900 AUC, most legionary armor was made from noric steel, a mineralogically distinct and durable type of iron, but by 1920, the majority of legionaries had armor crafted from pistorian steel with ridged patterns for deflecting blades and arrows. The significance of this transition for the abilities of the Legion is hard to overstate, given the extra durability of the new steel. Suffice it to say that a legionary of the late-11th century could take dozens of direct blows without harm from the weapons of contemporary kingdoms.
Steel armor completed the transition of Elysean military equipment into an age of steel. Some of the first items made from the new steel were gladius swords and arrowheads for the Legion, leaving body armor one of the last things to be upgraded. In general, Elysium now possessed drastically superior military technology than its neighbors, with weapons and armor rivalled only by two powers in the world (Song China and Ayyubid Sultanate). An arrowhead used by a sagittarius (legion archer) was a case-hardened broadhead piece of steel with four symmetrical blades, an time-consuming but rewarding weapon to forge. Swords for legionaries were becoming more and more elaborate as steelworking improved but the overall design of the gladius remained largely unchanged. Furthermore, the scutum (rectangular shield) had been redesigned without the central boss, for replacement by a layer of steel over the wood.
In any case, the difference between pistorian steel and other varieties of steel is difficult to overstate. This crucible steel is forged with a remarkable purity between 1-2% carbon content. Normally, highly brittle structures form in the steel at this level of purity but Pistorius Mica used repeated forging cycles to group this brittle material into thin lines. In many ways, the complicated forging of this steel may be Mica's greatest and most complex invention. Blades forged from this process could hold a sharper edge or point than with other metals and armor forged using this steel was nearly impossible in practice to penetrate and did not permanently deform as easily as other plate armor (although it had a tendency to deform slightly with heavy blows).
Due to the exotic forge and skill requirements of pistorian steel, only a small percentage of Elysean ironsmiths were able to forge ingots or objects of such high quality metal. However, the Legion was guaranteed a steady supply of arms and armor from local smiths with the right capabilities. Although pistorian steel was expensive, the costs saved from not transporting equipment from Noricum, the only source of noric steel, to the frontiers made the transition to pistorian steel only marginally more expensive.
One of the most important applications of steel by the Legion was in its artillery. The elasticity of pistorian steel combined with its durability made it ideal for the polytrahoi (semi-automatic artillery), manuballistae (handheld long-range crossbow), and Calanum (cannon). In general, steel crossbows were a major advancement in weapons technology that gave the Legion an advantage against the enemies. However, the Elysium were aware that the Toltec armed its heavy infantry with iron who learned how apply in armors and weapons.
With the Senate focused on exploring the continent, motivated by the profits coming its way through trade, other Elysium were exploring the world on their own initiative. Many of these journeys were motivated somehow by the publication that speculated on the direction of the next great threat to the empire.
On these headings, one expedition left from Cuba and another from Provincia Superi Caesariensis (British Columbia). The first expedition returned after discovered the so-called "Pearl Islands" off the coast of the land with abundant pearl oysters while the second never returned. News of their failure dissuaded further attempt to discover the called Terra Barbarus Septentrionalis, although it is probably that other people made attempts with no record left behind of their journey.
At the same time, a few Elyseans set out from the coast of the Oceanus Atlanticus to find more islands. These expeditions employed recent developments in sailing technology, passed onto Elysium from Boreanii. Northern longships were exceptional craft which resulted from unprecedented developments in shipbuilding.
First, the hull of a longship consisted of overlapping planks as opposed to joining planks of wood by inserting tenons on one plank into a mortise cavity on another. This clinker build allowed for a lighter and more durable hull. By 1949 AUC, river boats were mostly clinker-built and the design was occasionally employed in seafaring vessels. Second, the northmen rigged their primary sails using horizontal spars connecting perpendicularly to the mast of the ship. This square-rigging allowed a ship to have larger sails for catching more wind, permitting higher speeds on the open sea. However, unlike the popular lateen-rigging, a square rig could not sail upwind by beating, limit its use under less ideal conditions.
Together, these two new technologies would not produce the most impressive ocean-going vessel but the invention that changed navigation forever was the fusion of square-rigging and lateen-rigging into one vessel. Shipwrights in Civis Nova Olisippo created a 19 meter long clinker-built ship whose central mast or mainmast was square-rigged and whose rear mast or mizzenmast was lateen-rigged. This vessel operated completely without rowing but still resembled the larger decareme and quinquereme galleys used by the navy since behind the masts was a massive aftcastle for additional crew quarters. Due to its unique sails and large size for merchant vessels, ships of this new design came to be referred to as amplaves (s. amplavis) by Elysean sailors.
[OTL:Carracks]
An amplavis built in Claudiopolis (Jacksonville, Florida) made an attempt to cross the Atlantic but never returned while the only ship that came back after a long journey deep into the Atlantic was an amplavis setting out in 1955 from Claudiopolis. After the latter mission, no serious attempts were made to cross the Atlantic Ocean.
But for this time, the name of Cassiopeia would be the official names ascribed to the New World throughout Elysean history.
In general, the hybrid rig on ships was a revolutionary development for sailing. While the merchants of the Atlantic provinces gradually adopted the design during the 11th century. However, the Senate was too agitated in the 11th century to react to these improvements in naval technology. Unfortunately, it would take future emperors to harness the amplavis for the Elysean navy. However, clinker constructions and square rigs crept into the work of navy carpenters, creating sturdier cursors (runners) and faster quinqueremes. Of course, racers continued to use the Latin rig as it had maneuverability and speed advantages over square rigs.
The mathematician Cardanus had inspired a revolution in mathematics, providing a framework for general methods in solving polynomials and for illustrating the study of such numerical relationships independently of geometric problems. Other mathematicians were needed to really express this new conceptualization of mathematics, but Cardanus had begun the transition. By the mid-11th century, mathematicians were regularly combining algebraic and geometric methods in their analyzes of equations, the proper development of algebraic geometry (where geometry served more to interpret solutions than to find them). After Cardanus's work, completely algebraic methods could be used to find the roots of quadratic and cubic polynomials. By 1943 AUC (1190 A.D.), other mathematicians had devised similar general methods for finding the roots of quartic (fourth degree) polynomials.
Another revolution for which Cardanus paved the way was the sophistication of the Archimedean exhaustion method. Taking Cardanus' solution for the volume of a paraboloid and Archimedes' own solution for the volume of a sphere, the mathematician Lucius Tarius devised the method of indivisibles (methodus atomonorum) to calculate volumes and areas more generally. For the calculation of area, Tarius treated regions in a plane as a series of parallel lines, so that the areas of two figures are equal if they are joined by parallel lines that are the same distance apart and the total length of the lines parallels that make up each region is equal to the length of the lines that make up the other. Similarly, a solid in space was treated as a series of parallel planes, so that the volumes of the two solids are equal if they are joined by parallel planes that are separated by the same distance and the total area of the parallel planes that make up each region is equal to that area for the other.
In practice, the method of indivisibles could be used, as it was done immediately in 1953, to calculate the area around polynomials of degree greater than a quartic. Tarius himself carried his proofs up to 10th degree polynomials. Since the squaring of the parabola was seen by mathematicians of the Septimian and Lenape traditions (the two dominant cities for mathematics) as one of the greatest achievements of pre-Elysean mathematics, Tarius's method and results gained wide attention from the mathematicians. Quadratures of polynomials using the Tarian method spread rapidly throughout the Elysean world. There were attempts to apply this method to squaring other figures, especially polynomials of fractional or negative degrees, but it took a few years for any to succeed, especially since it took time for mathematicians to properly understand Tarian's method.
As was the custom in Elysean society, discoveries in mathematics were usually quickly distilled into textbooks or summaries that other mathematicians could easily digest, and in recent times were easily printed in large numbers. This process accelerated the process of dissemination of mathematical knowledge and was facilitated by scholars sharing ideas through letters. At the time, the printing presses of the Septimian Musaeum (Institute of the Muses) and the Lenape Technaeum were some of his main sources of income, as the Senate continued to provide less and less funding to these institutions.
By accepting irrational magnitudes as solutions, Cardanus had paved the way for another expansion of the number concept. After Cardano, number referred to any quantity that could be expressed as the ratio of whole numbers, while a magnitude was any quantity that could be expressed as a line on a geometric figure. For more than a millennium, Greco-Roman mathematicians regarded numbers as distinct from magnitudes, since more quantities were magnitudes than numbers. Aulus Stevinus introduced the conception of an irrational number to better accommodate solutions that were not rational magnitudes, even inventing the terms numerus rationabilis and numerus irrationabilis for these different classes of numbers. His attention was focused on irrational numbers found to be roots of non-square integers, although he also considered the relationship between the circumference of a circle to its diameter and the golden ratio as irrational based on Cardanus's work on his approximate decimal representations.
Paladín Wulfen
Kicked
i going start using the Arabic numbers in the threadmark for fix that. And... Before come the Most hated words in the roman history
Nice chapter. I like how further exploration is trial and error. Wondering if an inventive minded Elysian could experiment with adding a water wheel to one of these ships
The Roman Canal thread has me thinking Elysium needs an awesome network of canals
Hello,
Europe may not be a real priority for Elysium up to the point where one or the other makes contact, most likely to be accidental. And it looks like it may have nothing to do with Christopher Columbus. So the priority is to establish other lines of income for the Empire.
Surely before the Romans arrival in North America, there still remains some interest in Africa? Certainly some sailors may have entertained the idea that it is reachable by slightly going south while sailing east.
www.worldhistory.org
At the very least it is possible for the Elysians to reach the Azores.
I am interested in hearing if the Elysians begin to dabble more in chemistry and determining the background of lightning.
Europe may not be a real priority for Elysium up to the point where one or the other makes contact, most likely to be accidental. And it looks like it may have nothing to do with Christopher Columbus. So the priority is to establish other lines of income for the Empire.
Surely before the Romans arrival in North America, there still remains some interest in Africa? Certainly some sailors may have entertained the idea that it is reachable by slightly going south while sailing east.
The Roman Empire in West Africa
At its fullest extent, the Roman Empire stretched from around modern-day Aswan, Egypt at its southernmost point to Great Britain in the north but the influence of the Roman Empire went far beyond even...
www.worldhistory.org
I am interested in hearing if the Elysians begin to dabble more in chemistry and determining the background of lightning.
For now more plausible choice for them would be setting outposts in northern shore of South America since the distance is much closer.Hello,
Europe may not be a real priority for Elysium up to the point where one or the other makes contact, most likely to be accidental. And it looks like it may have nothing to do with Christopher Columbus. So the priority is to establish other lines of income for the Empire.
Surely before the Romans arrival in North America, there still remains some interest in Africa? Certainly some sailors may have entertained the idea that it is reachable by slightly going south while sailing east.
At the very least it is possible for the Elysians to reach the Azores.The Roman Empire in West Africa
At its fullest extent, the Roman Empire stretched from around modern-day Aswan, Egypt at its southernmost point to Great Britain in the north but the influence of the Roman Empire went far beyond even...
I am interested in hearing if the Elysians begin to dabble more in chemistry and determining the background of lightning.
Hello,
Possibly. Explorations may entail following American south coastlines westward so it is possible they may start hearing about Mexico and Central America.