You talking about Richard "Dicky" Reagan? That is a funny mashup of arguably California's most notable politicians.
A New Balance
- Thread starter Jim Smitty
- Start date
Admiral Halsey
Banned
God damn civil rights have advanced faster then OTL. I don't remember the story talking about it much so what exactly brought this faster pace?You mean that Nixon/Reagan or the fact that the first black vice president, and possible president, will be from South Carolina.
Well there really were two easter eggs in this last update. The phone through cut off the s for some reason. And the second easter egg was in the first paragraph and it was about the Chicago Bears.
Anyways Halsey, as to civil rights its complicated. Thanks to a different 1876 election the Republicans were able to hang on in SC, primary thanks to arming the blacks there and the southern Dems through pissed didn't want to start a major cluster over it, not with what was going on in Cuba at the time. Because of this SC became a Republican stronghold in the otherwise solid south. Because SC was a majority African-American state and to stay in power the Republicans in SC had to give them good treatment. Long and behold SC worked and started sending black republicans to Washington DC on a regular bases starting in the 1880s. SC proved that African Americans with the right training could be every bit as good as the white folk.
However it was during the Great War that things finally came to a head. Northern whites were shipped south as part of the fighting in the Caribbean and were shocked and disgusted by what southern whites were doing to blacks who were in uniform off base. Lynching was a major issue and unit commanders more than once got into Mexican Stand Offs with local cops over the fact no one was being brought to justice over their dead soldiers. It caused civil rights to become a national issue and a hot button topic in the 1920 election after TR sent in the marshals to calm things down during the war. The Republicans won and got civil rights done. The Old Guard in the Dems fought tooth and nail but they lost at every turn in the courts. Olsen and others saw that if the Dems wanted to be a national party again after what happened in 16 they had to reach out to the color vote. The blacks through are largely still republicans because primary they don't trust the Dems yet, but Olsen and others are opening up the minds of colors across the US.
Anyways Halsey, as to civil rights its complicated. Thanks to a different 1876 election the Republicans were able to hang on in SC, primary thanks to arming the blacks there and the southern Dems through pissed didn't want to start a major cluster over it, not with what was going on in Cuba at the time. Because of this SC became a Republican stronghold in the otherwise solid south. Because SC was a majority African-American state and to stay in power the Republicans in SC had to give them good treatment. Long and behold SC worked and started sending black republicans to Washington DC on a regular bases starting in the 1880s. SC proved that African Americans with the right training could be every bit as good as the white folk.
However it was during the Great War that things finally came to a head. Northern whites were shipped south as part of the fighting in the Caribbean and were shocked and disgusted by what southern whites were doing to blacks who were in uniform off base. Lynching was a major issue and unit commanders more than once got into Mexican Stand Offs with local cops over the fact no one was being brought to justice over their dead soldiers. It caused civil rights to become a national issue and a hot button topic in the 1920 election after TR sent in the marshals to calm things down during the war. The Republicans won and got civil rights done. The Old Guard in the Dems fought tooth and nail but they lost at every turn in the courts. Olsen and others saw that if the Dems wanted to be a national party again after what happened in 16 they had to reach out to the color vote. The blacks through are largely still republicans because primary they don't trust the Dems yet, but Olsen and others are opening up the minds of colors across the US.
Admiral Halsey
Banned
How did TTL's version of Plessy VS Ferguson go then? Also soldiers were getting lynched and nothing was being done by the cops!? Did any of the unit commanders turn a blind eye towards their soldiers if they decided to get some payback?
As to Plessy v Ferguson I didn't write notes up for that one.
As to the latter, there is a reason TR sent the US Marshals down south in very large numbers.
Admiral Halsey
Banned
Damn must've been a mini civil war going on in the south between the Army and the cops.
Wow, that would certainly cultivate an 'us vs them' mentality on base and, probably lead to either 'no go' areas offbase or any establishments are carefully vetted.
Did the military establishments in the South, become more self sufficient due to the racial tension?
Yeah southern bases became much more self sufficient. A number of planned bases in the south never happened and moved out west or midwest, well outside SC, those stayed. But there really was no vetting possible. A bunch of good old boys would hang any black man they caught in uniform for being uppity. These people were generally unable to serve for one reason or another, and in more than a few cases were the cops themselves. Who were protected from being drafted.
The federal cases that were heard at the Supreme Court in the aftermath of the war along with civil rights laws passed by Republicans through really put the US on the path of of becoming much more racially equal. One of the key cases through I will say is the Case of Scott v Bonaparte which ruled it was a federal crime to kill US service members and those who did it were subject to federal prison time and trials.
I'd imagine that with something like that occurring ITTL that Mississippi and Louisiana would vote largely Republican as well.
The Death of an Empire
Königgrätz
Town Hall
February 15 1939
The Battle of Königgrätz holds special importance in the history of Germany. It was the battle where Berlin replaced Vienna as the leader of German affairs in 1866. It also put Berlin on track for the first of two wars with France that was needed to make Germany the strongest nation in Europe. It was why Foreign Minister Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck selected the city to host this meeting between the German Empire and the defeated Austro-Hungarian Empire. Three days ago, the Austro-Hungarian Government had reached out to Berlin for armistice talks. Lettow-Vorbeck decided to hold them but he was going to make it clear that that Austria-Hungary wasn’t in a position to demand anything and only in a position to accept one term, unconditional surrender.
Lettow-Vorbeck wasn’t about to repeat Bismarck’s greatest mistake, and possibly his only mistake. It was time to unite all Germans under one nation and one leader. Indeed, they were already taking this step. They were retraining and reequipping 17 Austro-Hungarian Divisions that had either come over whole or parts of different divisions who had already come over to Berlin. It was the start of uniting all German people under the same flag. Even those who had surrender so far were being given good treatment and the chance to join the forces of Kaiser Wilhelm the Third. The differences between German and Austro-Hungarian divisions were night and day and one of the reasons that the retraining was needed. But there was also a need to ease the logistical headaches that would cause by using the bad equipment being used by Austro-Hungarian units which was part of the reequipping of these units.
Beside Lettow-Vorbeck there was a number of other important people here. Some were from Germany like Lettow-Vorbeck, others through were from allied foreign nations. The most pleased looking through had to be the Italian Prime Minister Adriano Lucciano. Lucciano was leading the Italian team here at Königgrätz and had gained an important concession from the Germans yesterday. It was one reason he was looking so pleased. At first the Austro-Hungarians had tried to get out of making peace with the Italians. However, Lettow-Vorbeck was having none of that. He stated talks and whatever deal was stuck would be with all of Berlin’s allies or there would be no deal. With Austro-Hungarian forces collapsing they had no choice but to accept this.
The Austro-Hungarian team who had just reached Königgrätz was being led by Archduke Felix who was currently the prince regent of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. It was clear he wasn’t pleased being here. Beside him were both Austrians and Hungarians who were clearly identified by the different uniforms that they were wearing. Like their leader they were clearly not pleased to be here. Then again, they knew this was going to be bad for their nation. Then again nothing had been going right for the Austro-Hungarian Empire since the turn of the year, well if the truth be spoke for decades.
Archduke Felix was about to speak, but Lettow-Vorbeck spoke first. “These are the only terms the German Empire and allies will accept.” After he finish saying that Lettow-Vorbeck pushed a single page document in front of the Austro-Hungarian Archduke.
The Austro-Hungarian Archduke picked up the single piece of paper off the desk and read it. It read ‘I the undersigned surrender the Austro-Hungarian Empire without conditions to the German Empire, the Kingdom of Italy, the Third Empire of France, the Kingdom of Belgium, the Kingdom of Romanian, and the Kingdom of Bulgaria.’ As he read the simple but critical statement the Archduke Felix turned white as a ghost.
Clearly shaken Archduke Felix spoke as he put the paper down, “You can’t expect me to sign that.”
“Yes I do expect you sign that.” Lettow-Vorbeck said. The other Austrians and Hungarians in the room looked at the piece of paper they were all shocked by it.
The senior Hungarian representative spoke, “I will never sign that document!”
Archduke Felix and the senior Austrian representative looked at the senior Hungarian representative. Before either could speak Lettow-Vorbeck spoke, “Yes you will! We are ready know you were willing to break Hungary off from the Austro-Hungarian Empire in their moment of weakness.”
With that Archduke Felix got up from his chair and walked over to the senior Hungarian and slapped him and slapped him hard. Felix hated the Hungarians as they had derailed any chances to put the Austro-Hungarian Empire house in order. He then when back to the chair he was sitting in and slumped down in it defeated. He signed the surrender document after a few moments to get himself back together.
After looking at the paper for a minute he got up and looked at the senior Hungarian, “Sign it you piece of shit.”
Still rubbing his face, “No. Hungary will no sign such a document.”
Lettow-Vorbeck spoke, “If you refuse to sign this document, Hungary will still be at war with the German Empire and her allies. Do you honestly think the Hungarians can stand up to such an assault?” Lettow-Vorbeck let that question stay in the air for a moment before going on, “If you sign there will be a Hungary left after this war, if you don’t, well I can’t be sure of that.” Lettow-Vorbeck let the threat hang in the air.
The color once again drained out of the face of someone but this time it was the Hungarians who when pasty white. The Hungarians stepped forward and signed the surrender document and he did more out of fear that Hungary would become another Serbia or Poland than anything else. The Austrian representative signed it as well a moment later. This later was signed by different people of the German, Italian, French, Belgian, Romanian, and Bulgarian governments.
With a stroke of a pen the Austro-Hungarian Empire officially came to an end. The Austrian representative along with Archduke Felix were shown to a side room to start talks with the future of Austria and the House of Habsburg. The Hungarians were shown off to a different room as they needed to understand they weren’t in a position to demand shit right now. A new day in Europe was starting.
Town Hall
February 15 1939
The Battle of Königgrätz holds special importance in the history of Germany. It was the battle where Berlin replaced Vienna as the leader of German affairs in 1866. It also put Berlin on track for the first of two wars with France that was needed to make Germany the strongest nation in Europe. It was why Foreign Minister Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck selected the city to host this meeting between the German Empire and the defeated Austro-Hungarian Empire. Three days ago, the Austro-Hungarian Government had reached out to Berlin for armistice talks. Lettow-Vorbeck decided to hold them but he was going to make it clear that that Austria-Hungary wasn’t in a position to demand anything and only in a position to accept one term, unconditional surrender.
Lettow-Vorbeck wasn’t about to repeat Bismarck’s greatest mistake, and possibly his only mistake. It was time to unite all Germans under one nation and one leader. Indeed, they were already taking this step. They were retraining and reequipping 17 Austro-Hungarian Divisions that had either come over whole or parts of different divisions who had already come over to Berlin. It was the start of uniting all German people under the same flag. Even those who had surrender so far were being given good treatment and the chance to join the forces of Kaiser Wilhelm the Third. The differences between German and Austro-Hungarian divisions were night and day and one of the reasons that the retraining was needed. But there was also a need to ease the logistical headaches that would cause by using the bad equipment being used by Austro-Hungarian units which was part of the reequipping of these units.
Beside Lettow-Vorbeck there was a number of other important people here. Some were from Germany like Lettow-Vorbeck, others through were from allied foreign nations. The most pleased looking through had to be the Italian Prime Minister Adriano Lucciano. Lucciano was leading the Italian team here at Königgrätz and had gained an important concession from the Germans yesterday. It was one reason he was looking so pleased. At first the Austro-Hungarians had tried to get out of making peace with the Italians. However, Lettow-Vorbeck was having none of that. He stated talks and whatever deal was stuck would be with all of Berlin’s allies or there would be no deal. With Austro-Hungarian forces collapsing they had no choice but to accept this.
The Austro-Hungarian team who had just reached Königgrätz was being led by Archduke Felix who was currently the prince regent of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. It was clear he wasn’t pleased being here. Beside him were both Austrians and Hungarians who were clearly identified by the different uniforms that they were wearing. Like their leader they were clearly not pleased to be here. Then again, they knew this was going to be bad for their nation. Then again nothing had been going right for the Austro-Hungarian Empire since the turn of the year, well if the truth be spoke for decades.
Archduke Felix was about to speak, but Lettow-Vorbeck spoke first. “These are the only terms the German Empire and allies will accept.” After he finish saying that Lettow-Vorbeck pushed a single page document in front of the Austro-Hungarian Archduke.
The Austro-Hungarian Archduke picked up the single piece of paper off the desk and read it. It read ‘I the undersigned surrender the Austro-Hungarian Empire without conditions to the German Empire, the Kingdom of Italy, the Third Empire of France, the Kingdom of Belgium, the Kingdom of Romanian, and the Kingdom of Bulgaria.’ As he read the simple but critical statement the Archduke Felix turned white as a ghost.
Clearly shaken Archduke Felix spoke as he put the paper down, “You can’t expect me to sign that.”
“Yes I do expect you sign that.” Lettow-Vorbeck said. The other Austrians and Hungarians in the room looked at the piece of paper they were all shocked by it.
The senior Hungarian representative spoke, “I will never sign that document!”
Archduke Felix and the senior Austrian representative looked at the senior Hungarian representative. Before either could speak Lettow-Vorbeck spoke, “Yes you will! We are ready know you were willing to break Hungary off from the Austro-Hungarian Empire in their moment of weakness.”
With that Archduke Felix got up from his chair and walked over to the senior Hungarian and slapped him and slapped him hard. Felix hated the Hungarians as they had derailed any chances to put the Austro-Hungarian Empire house in order. He then when back to the chair he was sitting in and slumped down in it defeated. He signed the surrender document after a few moments to get himself back together.
After looking at the paper for a minute he got up and looked at the senior Hungarian, “Sign it you piece of shit.”
Still rubbing his face, “No. Hungary will no sign such a document.”
Lettow-Vorbeck spoke, “If you refuse to sign this document, Hungary will still be at war with the German Empire and her allies. Do you honestly think the Hungarians can stand up to such an assault?” Lettow-Vorbeck let that question stay in the air for a moment before going on, “If you sign there will be a Hungary left after this war, if you don’t, well I can’t be sure of that.” Lettow-Vorbeck let the threat hang in the air.
The color once again drained out of the face of someone but this time it was the Hungarians who when pasty white. The Hungarians stepped forward and signed the surrender document and he did more out of fear that Hungary would become another Serbia or Poland than anything else. The Austrian representative signed it as well a moment later. This later was signed by different people of the German, Italian, French, Belgian, Romanian, and Bulgarian governments.
With a stroke of a pen the Austro-Hungarian Empire officially came to an end. The Austrian representative along with Archduke Felix were shown to a side room to start talks with the future of Austria and the House of Habsburg. The Hungarians were shown off to a different room as they needed to understand they weren’t in a position to demand shit right now. A new day in Europe was starting.
Well, probably Mexico, after all between Triaton and the aftermath of the war with Romania Hungary was pretty much devastated, spent and looted. ITTL Budapest can at least try to keep a little more territory in Croatia and slovackia
Edit: now that the Empire is no more, troubles will rise as in Veneto (and the new acquired territories) and Transylvania the italians and the romanians will give the locals the same choice the minorities received after the war (and i suspect that many of the people force to emigrate will want to return). Croatians will want to get out and even whatever is left of the Serbian people will start to extract some revenge.
It will be only temporary (if the URSS doesn't see an opening and start to supply any would-be rebels) as the Germans and her allies will start to control more tightly the territory.
Just as curiosity, what France get out of the war or she had just partecipated diplomatically and logistically? Maybe some reverse of the post-war border adjustment to show at the former enemy that loyalty pay?
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I always feel bad for austria when the end comes no matter what tl it is. That didnt stop me from from happing in my tl though lol. You got a great tl here
The Germans get Austria, and probably Bohemia-Moravia, I'm sure the Romanians will get a little slice of Hungary. The Italians get up to the Alps and some bits of OTL Croatia. The Bulgarians get some reparations - nothing for them to take. What do the French get - they get a Germany which is now even stronger than before. I suppose they get some cash, but they have to know they will be dancing to the German tune in Europe in all ways even more so.
Yet the French know they can't defeat the Germans even before this. They decided if you can't beat them join them.
It is essentially what the EU and its predecessors were, France after WWII realized the the Western core needed to integrate and in this TL they realized this a little earlier, a hostile Spain that was semi successfully invading after they suffered their greatest defeat and a semi hostile Britain left them little choice.
Between a Rock and a Hard Place
Scapa Flow
RN Command HQ
February 22 1939
The war for the Royal Navy to date had not been kind. The strike against the American coast had failed to catch the bulk of the USN Atlantic Fleet in port. American anti-air defenses proved to be far better than the Royal Navy believed it would be as they put together this plane. Then at Denmark Straits they were only saved by the weather which forced the Americans to break off. It also forced the British to break off their failed invasion of Iceland. Taking an holding Iceland had been the lynch pen in British planning to defeating the United States. However, that planning also didn’t call for the total destruction of the Fleet Air Arm within weeks of the war starting either. With the inability to take the key air fields around Reykjavik the British Army called off the invasion for fear of the American Atlantic Fleet showing up and destroy his force. That commander was now in the Tower in London.
It hadn’t been totally one sided through. The opening strike by the RAF Bomber Command against the German High Seas Fleet did a number on it. From photograph missions they had confirmed that the Battlecruiser Moltke had been destroyed to the point it was beyond economic repair. Two other battleships, another battlecruiser, and a pair of aircraft carriers were also sunk but based on what they saw in the photographs they looked like they could be savaged and put back into service. Germany still fielded a powerful force that could threaten the British Isles and needed to be dealt with.
Things in the Mediterranean things had just caught the British off guard. The British never expected such a bold and daring operation from the Italians to take Malta. Plus the raid at Alexandria was just a kick into the nuts. That raid cost the British the Royal Oak plus a pair of light cruisers. The Royal Oak was a total write off as that blast broke the keel of the ship, which was beyond the ability of the base at Alexandria to repair. Between the French and Italian fleets it was making life in the Mediterranean a bloody nightmare for the British as the threat of cutting off the critical artery of the empire was real. Elsewhere things were better, but the British knew they needed to regain the initiative. They haven’t lost it yet, but the danger of losing it was real and the British knew it.
It was why this group of senior British admirals were here in Scapa Flow trying to figure out how to get control of the initiative again. Another invasion of Iceland was out of the question primary because it wouldn’t be till November at the earliest that the carriers would have full air wings again. New aircraft through wasn’t projected till early to middle 1940 as these early bouts of combat had shown the aircraft the Fleet Air Arm when to war with were markedly worse than what the Americans were using. So it left the question of what’s next and how to regain control of the initiative.
Even though they believed their battleline could survive the hardest aerial attacks, they knew their escorts couldn’t. Once the escorts were lost, that opened up their battleships to submarine and destroyer attacks to cut their numbers down before the Americans would be able to get in with their undamaged battleline and go at it. So they had to fight this battle within the limits of air cover. That was putting a real damper on trying to strike back against the Americans as they didn’t have anything in land range to strike at the Americans.
Then one of the junior admirals in the room had a brain storm. Rear Admiral John Walker was currently the youngest rear admiral in the Royal Navy and the only rear admiral who didn’t command a ship during the Great War. He came up with a plan that might work. He saw that time was an ally of the United States not the British Empire. But if they could knock Germany and their allies out of the war before the US could finish their wars in the Americas they might be able to get something close to a status quo peace with them. However to do this they had to turn the heat up on Germany to 10. The only place they saw to do this was Norway.
Walker outline his idea, and as the other admirals listened they agreed with it. But they needed to go to Churchill for this.
RN Command HQ
February 22 1939
The war for the Royal Navy to date had not been kind. The strike against the American coast had failed to catch the bulk of the USN Atlantic Fleet in port. American anti-air defenses proved to be far better than the Royal Navy believed it would be as they put together this plane. Then at Denmark Straits they were only saved by the weather which forced the Americans to break off. It also forced the British to break off their failed invasion of Iceland. Taking an holding Iceland had been the lynch pen in British planning to defeating the United States. However, that planning also didn’t call for the total destruction of the Fleet Air Arm within weeks of the war starting either. With the inability to take the key air fields around Reykjavik the British Army called off the invasion for fear of the American Atlantic Fleet showing up and destroy his force. That commander was now in the Tower in London.
It hadn’t been totally one sided through. The opening strike by the RAF Bomber Command against the German High Seas Fleet did a number on it. From photograph missions they had confirmed that the Battlecruiser Moltke had been destroyed to the point it was beyond economic repair. Two other battleships, another battlecruiser, and a pair of aircraft carriers were also sunk but based on what they saw in the photographs they looked like they could be savaged and put back into service. Germany still fielded a powerful force that could threaten the British Isles and needed to be dealt with.
Things in the Mediterranean things had just caught the British off guard. The British never expected such a bold and daring operation from the Italians to take Malta. Plus the raid at Alexandria was just a kick into the nuts. That raid cost the British the Royal Oak plus a pair of light cruisers. The Royal Oak was a total write off as that blast broke the keel of the ship, which was beyond the ability of the base at Alexandria to repair. Between the French and Italian fleets it was making life in the Mediterranean a bloody nightmare for the British as the threat of cutting off the critical artery of the empire was real. Elsewhere things were better, but the British knew they needed to regain the initiative. They haven’t lost it yet, but the danger of losing it was real and the British knew it.
It was why this group of senior British admirals were here in Scapa Flow trying to figure out how to get control of the initiative again. Another invasion of Iceland was out of the question primary because it wouldn’t be till November at the earliest that the carriers would have full air wings again. New aircraft through wasn’t projected till early to middle 1940 as these early bouts of combat had shown the aircraft the Fleet Air Arm when to war with were markedly worse than what the Americans were using. So it left the question of what’s next and how to regain control of the initiative.
Even though they believed their battleline could survive the hardest aerial attacks, they knew their escorts couldn’t. Once the escorts were lost, that opened up their battleships to submarine and destroyer attacks to cut their numbers down before the Americans would be able to get in with their undamaged battleline and go at it. So they had to fight this battle within the limits of air cover. That was putting a real damper on trying to strike back against the Americans as they didn’t have anything in land range to strike at the Americans.
Then one of the junior admirals in the room had a brain storm. Rear Admiral John Walker was currently the youngest rear admiral in the Royal Navy and the only rear admiral who didn’t command a ship during the Great War. He came up with a plan that might work. He saw that time was an ally of the United States not the British Empire. But if they could knock Germany and their allies out of the war before the US could finish their wars in the Americas they might be able to get something close to a status quo peace with them. However to do this they had to turn the heat up on Germany to 10. The only place they saw to do this was Norway.
Walker outline his idea, and as the other admirals listened they agreed with it. But they needed to go to Churchill for this.
I had a feeling that the Brits would go for Norway, probably for the same reasons that the Nazis went for Norway in our world.