But the British are acting really stupid this time because the invasion of Norway is even more unnecessary than how it was OTL. Here the German Army's only real front is the Soviet Front which hasn't moved an inch since the war began. Meanwhile, Britain has to defend against the United States in the Americas, defend their African colonies from the French, defend the Middle East from the Ottomans and Italians, watch out for a Japanese backstab in the Pacific, and could be under threat of a direct home invasion. Yet they still chose to invade nuetral Norway. With only one front Germany has a couple of corps that they can freely use in Scandinavia.
A New Balance
- Thread starter Jim Smitty
- Start date
But the British are acting really stupid this time because the invasion of Norway is even more unnecessary than how it was OTL. Here the German Army's only real front is the Soviet Front which hasn't moved an inch since the war began. Meanwhile, Britain has to defend against the United States in the Americas, defend their African colonies from the French, defend the Middle East from the Ottomans and Italians, watch out for a Japanese backstab in the Pacific, and could be under threat of a direct home invasion. Yet they still chose to invade nuetral Norway. With only one front Germany has a couple of corps that they can freely use in Scandinavia.
The British are already gasping at straws ITL. They were planning on a war to take Germany down so they could focus on dealing with the US at a later date. That has gone all to hell ITL as the US isn't acting like they expected and signing an alliance with the Germans. In the interwar period the British never sent any time warplanning for this as it was a nightmare that they didn't want to repeat. The British believe by striking at Norway they can tighten the blockade on Germany even more, cut of iron ore shipments via Narvik, and most importantly draw the German High Seas Fleet out into battle and destroy it. Further they can roll into Sweden which is in this war and get a base of operations to help their Soviet allies. They hope they can knock Germany out of the war before the US can send its full might against them and the US would agree to something close to a status quo peace.
Now if it works out right that is another story.
Now if it works out right that is another story.
It seems as though in this T/L the British have not only been the inventors of Kool-Aid, but they have consumed large quantities, especially amongst the military and politicians. I wonder how much of a blockade the British can actually impose on Germany. France is a co-belligerent with Germany, so this means a blockade of the French Atlantic and Mediterranean coasts as well as the Baltic, and intercepting neutrals on the way to Norway and Holland. Oh, and Italy needs to be blockaded as well. If Spain is neutral, goods can be unloaded in Spain and shipped via France to Germany. Basically the RN here has to intercept all shipping from the Norway/Finland/Russia border to Greece. If the RN is doing this, I doubt it has much left over for anything else.
BTW if the German fleet sorties, I would expect this to be coordinated with the USA. The RN simply cannot deal with both at once, and even if it achieves a significant loss ratio over the Germans (not guaranteed) the Rn will take losses and face the US fleet and never catch up with numbers, and competitive aircraft.
BTW if the German fleet sorties, I would expect this to be coordinated with the USA. The RN simply cannot deal with both at once, and even if it achieves a significant loss ratio over the Germans (not guaranteed) the Rn will take losses and face the US fleet and never catch up with numbers, and competitive aircraft.
Recruitment Tour of Duty
Near Grand Island, Nebraska
Camp Morgan, PW Camp
February 28 1939
Major Mike Garrity was wondering what the fuck was going on at the moment. He had been awoken just after 0500 by one of his junior officers. Said junior officer handed him top secret orders that a special guest would be visiting his PW Camp today and staying for at least two weeks, possibly longer. Garrity under these orders were to help this unknown guest within reason. He honestly wondered what the fuck that meant. Orders no matter how much they didn’t make sense were still orders, and with these orders coming from the Secretary of War, he was going to follow them. This was because he already confirmed these orders were real when he spoke with General Glass soon after being handed these orders.
Garrity before the start of the war had been an Arizona Ranger for close to 15 years. He also held a reserve officer commission in the Army Reserves with the rank of Captain. Garrity through had failed to see combat during the Great War as he had been too young but saw limited action in the occupation of Ontario in 1920. When the war started he had been mobilized and promoted and assigned to command one of the first PW camps that were opening. He had only reached Camp Morgan only days before the first limeys started to show up. And at the moment he was still setting up his camp for the expanding need that was going to be needed in time.
Currently the United States only held a few hundred British and Mexican PWs each and even fewer Soviet and Japanese PWs at the moment. The US however believed that PWs would becoming in large numbers as they started on their offensives needed to win this war. The US was going to be using these PW to help their war effort, notably in the farm effort to feed this nation. However with it still being winter meant they had time to expand their PW camp system before they started renting out PWs to farmers to try and make up for those Americans who were drafted into the military to defeat these nations who dared cross swords with the United States of America. Most likely it wouldn’t be till 1940 that this was put into motion.
The unknown guest reach Major Garrity’s office a little after 0900 local. Major Garrity spoke first after reading his orders, “Welcome to Camp Morgan Lieutenant Jones.”
By looking at the clothes worn by Lieutenant Matt Jones one wouldn’t know right away he was a military officer. However by looking at the way he stood was a dead give away he was a military officer. His back was ramrod straight, his shoulders were back, and he was stood with the pride you expected of a military officer. “Thank you major. Do you mind if I take a seat?” He said with an unmistakable accent of someone from the Imperial Federation.
“No go right ahead. Do you mind if I smoke?”
“This is your office major.”
At that Mike pulled out a Cuban cigar and a cigar cutter. After cutting the end off and lighting it with a match and taking a good pull on the cigar and blowing a smoke ring into the air, “So, Lieutenant what business does the Federales have here in my camp.”
“Major, how long do you think the Imperial Federation can stay out of this war?”
Garrity thought about that for a moment, “I don’t know. Most likely the whole war.”
Jones let out a high pitch laugh before he spoke, “If we were so lucky. I would put money, and good money, that we would be forced to join your side with the next 12 to 18 months.” There was a reason Jones had been selected for this assignment. He was beyond smart and was cunning as the devil. It was one of the reasons he was assigned to the newly formed Imperial Federation Intelligence Service (IFIS). With the clean break with the mother nation the Imperial Federation was forced to fill out a number of key job, this was why the IFIS was formed. They needed an intelligence service.
“Wow, I’m not sure what to say to that.” Garrity answered before taking another pull on the cigar he was smoking.
“Its understandable major.” The Imperial Federation Officer said as he studied the American. His make of the man was he was a hard nose no none sense officer but one who could only see the battle right in front of him, not the wider picture.
“That brings me back to my question, why to the Federales have business in my camp?”
“We are looking for British PWs that might be willing to join our forces once we enter the war on your side.” The Imperial Federation senior command already knew they were missing a number of key skills and they were hoping to recruit from the British PWs held by the United States to help fill in these gaps in skills. They would also take anything from pilots to cannon fodder as well. They knew this was going to be a long war and the Imperial Federation would need all the bodies they could get their hands on to come out in a position they couldn’t be bullied by the United States.
“I assume this is why I was given orders from the Secretary of War about you being here.”
“I do believe so.” The United States and the Imperial Federation already came to an agreement on the issue no neither man in this room knew that. The US would allow the Feds speak to their PWs at the moment and those that the Feds view as recruitable would be moved to a special prison camp till such time the Imperial Federation would enter the war on their side. Once they entered the war they would allow the Imperial Federation to take control of those PWs and fold them into their military. In return for this the Imperial Federation agreed to slow down on their exports to the British Raj and the Japanese right now. The Imperial Federation also made a nod and wink that they would join the war on the US side of the war but the Imperial Federation wanted something that could unite their nation.
“So are you going to stay here, or are you staying in the town?” Mike asked.
“In town, my wife is also here.” Matt had married a Polish bombshell who with her parents had fled Poland in the after of the Great War. Matt and his wife were both trying to have their first child at the moment[1], so he had been able to get tickets for his wife as well to the United States along with the allowance to live in a hotel instead of the camps. She was currently at the hotel setting up the room that would be their home for the next few weeks.
“I also take it you will have the good sense not to wear your uniform.”
“Major, I may serve in the Imperial Federation Navy and be proud of that fact, but I don’t have a death wish. Wearing my uniform here in bum fuck nowhere is asking for trouble and I know it.” Currently the Imperial Federation Navy wore the same uniform as the Royal Navy. The only difference was in the officer caps, were a crown was overlaid with the Southern Cross. Most Americans wouldn’t notice the difference and with the anger at the British, the would most likely jump any officer in a uniform that close to the British uniform. Because of that Matt only packed one uniform for this trip so when he reported to the embassy he could have it. But other than that he was going to be in a civilian suit for his trip across the US at the moment.
[1] The Imperial Federation is very big on increasing its population.
Camp Morgan, PW Camp
February 28 1939
Major Mike Garrity was wondering what the fuck was going on at the moment. He had been awoken just after 0500 by one of his junior officers. Said junior officer handed him top secret orders that a special guest would be visiting his PW Camp today and staying for at least two weeks, possibly longer. Garrity under these orders were to help this unknown guest within reason. He honestly wondered what the fuck that meant. Orders no matter how much they didn’t make sense were still orders, and with these orders coming from the Secretary of War, he was going to follow them. This was because he already confirmed these orders were real when he spoke with General Glass soon after being handed these orders.
Garrity before the start of the war had been an Arizona Ranger for close to 15 years. He also held a reserve officer commission in the Army Reserves with the rank of Captain. Garrity through had failed to see combat during the Great War as he had been too young but saw limited action in the occupation of Ontario in 1920. When the war started he had been mobilized and promoted and assigned to command one of the first PW camps that were opening. He had only reached Camp Morgan only days before the first limeys started to show up. And at the moment he was still setting up his camp for the expanding need that was going to be needed in time.
Currently the United States only held a few hundred British and Mexican PWs each and even fewer Soviet and Japanese PWs at the moment. The US however believed that PWs would becoming in large numbers as they started on their offensives needed to win this war. The US was going to be using these PW to help their war effort, notably in the farm effort to feed this nation. However with it still being winter meant they had time to expand their PW camp system before they started renting out PWs to farmers to try and make up for those Americans who were drafted into the military to defeat these nations who dared cross swords with the United States of America. Most likely it wouldn’t be till 1940 that this was put into motion.
The unknown guest reach Major Garrity’s office a little after 0900 local. Major Garrity spoke first after reading his orders, “Welcome to Camp Morgan Lieutenant Jones.”
By looking at the clothes worn by Lieutenant Matt Jones one wouldn’t know right away he was a military officer. However by looking at the way he stood was a dead give away he was a military officer. His back was ramrod straight, his shoulders were back, and he was stood with the pride you expected of a military officer. “Thank you major. Do you mind if I take a seat?” He said with an unmistakable accent of someone from the Imperial Federation.
“No go right ahead. Do you mind if I smoke?”
“This is your office major.”
At that Mike pulled out a Cuban cigar and a cigar cutter. After cutting the end off and lighting it with a match and taking a good pull on the cigar and blowing a smoke ring into the air, “So, Lieutenant what business does the Federales have here in my camp.”
“Major, how long do you think the Imperial Federation can stay out of this war?”
Garrity thought about that for a moment, “I don’t know. Most likely the whole war.”
Jones let out a high pitch laugh before he spoke, “If we were so lucky. I would put money, and good money, that we would be forced to join your side with the next 12 to 18 months.” There was a reason Jones had been selected for this assignment. He was beyond smart and was cunning as the devil. It was one of the reasons he was assigned to the newly formed Imperial Federation Intelligence Service (IFIS). With the clean break with the mother nation the Imperial Federation was forced to fill out a number of key job, this was why the IFIS was formed. They needed an intelligence service.
“Wow, I’m not sure what to say to that.” Garrity answered before taking another pull on the cigar he was smoking.
“Its understandable major.” The Imperial Federation Officer said as he studied the American. His make of the man was he was a hard nose no none sense officer but one who could only see the battle right in front of him, not the wider picture.
“That brings me back to my question, why to the Federales have business in my camp?”
“We are looking for British PWs that might be willing to join our forces once we enter the war on your side.” The Imperial Federation senior command already knew they were missing a number of key skills and they were hoping to recruit from the British PWs held by the United States to help fill in these gaps in skills. They would also take anything from pilots to cannon fodder as well. They knew this was going to be a long war and the Imperial Federation would need all the bodies they could get their hands on to come out in a position they couldn’t be bullied by the United States.
“I assume this is why I was given orders from the Secretary of War about you being here.”
“I do believe so.” The United States and the Imperial Federation already came to an agreement on the issue no neither man in this room knew that. The US would allow the Feds speak to their PWs at the moment and those that the Feds view as recruitable would be moved to a special prison camp till such time the Imperial Federation would enter the war on their side. Once they entered the war they would allow the Imperial Federation to take control of those PWs and fold them into their military. In return for this the Imperial Federation agreed to slow down on their exports to the British Raj and the Japanese right now. The Imperial Federation also made a nod and wink that they would join the war on the US side of the war but the Imperial Federation wanted something that could unite their nation.
“So are you going to stay here, or are you staying in the town?” Mike asked.
“In town, my wife is also here.” Matt had married a Polish bombshell who with her parents had fled Poland in the after of the Great War. Matt and his wife were both trying to have their first child at the moment[1], so he had been able to get tickets for his wife as well to the United States along with the allowance to live in a hotel instead of the camps. She was currently at the hotel setting up the room that would be their home for the next few weeks.
“I also take it you will have the good sense not to wear your uniform.”
“Major, I may serve in the Imperial Federation Navy and be proud of that fact, but I don’t have a death wish. Wearing my uniform here in bum fuck nowhere is asking for trouble and I know it.” Currently the Imperial Federation Navy wore the same uniform as the Royal Navy. The only difference was in the officer caps, were a crown was overlaid with the Southern Cross. Most Americans wouldn’t notice the difference and with the anger at the British, the would most likely jump any officer in a uniform that close to the British uniform. Because of that Matt only packed one uniform for this trip so when he reported to the embassy he could have it. But other than that he was going to be in a civilian suit for his trip across the US at the moment.
[1] The Imperial Federation is very big on increasing its population.
Smart move by the Feds and, it will be interesting to see how many Brit PWs jump at the offer.
I wonder how the vetting process would occur, prior to accepting them into service and, how it could be achieved while minimising the risk to their families.
I wonder how the vetting process would occur, prior to accepting them into service and, how it could be achieved while minimising the risk to their families.
Let the Dogs of War Slip
Moscow
The Kremlin
March 3 1939
General Secretary Aleskei Yasha was currently waiting for Front Commander 1st Rank Anatoli Yermolai. Yermolai was the head of Stavka. Yasha had moved Yermolai to the position after he had served time as the commander of the Kiev Military District after the last purge. Yasha had never purged the Red Army like has wanted with a top down cleaning starting at Stavka and working his way down to the regimental commanders. This however was more out of need than anything else. He had hostile powers all in striking distance of his borders who have made it clear how they felt about communism. As such it behooved oneself to not cripple you military command system. That didn’t mean you didn’t clear out the dead wood or those who got to ambitious.
With the total collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the failure to create a war between the Swiss and Berlin led European alliance something else needed to be done. Well the OGPU were working on another effort to create a war between the Swiss and the rest of Europe. Yasha had made it clear he wouldn’t accept failure again. He wanted the Swiss to be a meat shield to allow the Red Army match into Europe with limited losses to equipment. He didn’t care about the losses in human lives, those could be replaced as any idiot could make more children for the state. But equipment took time, resources, and skill labor to make[1]. Things that were all scare in the Soviet Union.
Currently the Red Army was waiting for better weather in April or May before launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. Yasha wasn’t about to send his military into winter battle as that was a losing proposition in his mind at the moment. Then again things happened so quickly he wasn’t in position to launch an offensive against the Germans when war did come. He was still moving pieces into position at the moment. Currently everything was on track, but he was waiting for Yermolai. Yasha made a suggestion to Stavka that they should use weapons from Department 66.
When Yasha made a suggestion like that it really was an order. However he had to play some politics as he wasn’t able to brute force everything like he wanted to at the moment. Department 66 was a special weapon program that the Soviet Union had been working on for years. It was the cover for both chemical and biological weapon programs within the Soviet Union. Yasha had made weapon production of all kinds a priory soon after taking power so he could take the revolution to the masses.
Yermolai enter the room in the Kremlin was using as his personal office. To get this far into the Kremlin he had to get through a number of OGPU checkpoints. Yet Yasha also had his own last line of defense, a modified pistol he kept on him from his days as a revolutionary. Yet this meeting when on like others times Yermolai had come here. Then again everyone in the Soviet Union feared Yasha to some degree, but Yasha didn’t want respect as if they fear you they will do a lot more.
The point of this meeting was simply informing Yasha that Stavka was recommending that chemical weapons were to be used for the coming offensive. They recommended the use of HL agent[2]. With the laws of Soviet Union the General Secretary of the Soviet Union had to approve the use of special weapons. Yasha approved the use of HL agent.
[1] The Soviets still have about the same industrial strength as OTL. However Yasha the ITL Stalin, wants the Soviet Union at the same strength as the British or Germans in 1935, but they aren’t anywhere close to that and it pisses him off to no end.
[2] A Lewisite-Mustard Gas mix.
The Kremlin
March 3 1939
General Secretary Aleskei Yasha was currently waiting for Front Commander 1st Rank Anatoli Yermolai. Yermolai was the head of Stavka. Yasha had moved Yermolai to the position after he had served time as the commander of the Kiev Military District after the last purge. Yasha had never purged the Red Army like has wanted with a top down cleaning starting at Stavka and working his way down to the regimental commanders. This however was more out of need than anything else. He had hostile powers all in striking distance of his borders who have made it clear how they felt about communism. As such it behooved oneself to not cripple you military command system. That didn’t mean you didn’t clear out the dead wood or those who got to ambitious.
With the total collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the failure to create a war between the Swiss and Berlin led European alliance something else needed to be done. Well the OGPU were working on another effort to create a war between the Swiss and the rest of Europe. Yasha had made it clear he wouldn’t accept failure again. He wanted the Swiss to be a meat shield to allow the Red Army match into Europe with limited losses to equipment. He didn’t care about the losses in human lives, those could be replaced as any idiot could make more children for the state. But equipment took time, resources, and skill labor to make[1]. Things that were all scare in the Soviet Union.
Currently the Red Army was waiting for better weather in April or May before launching an offensive against Germany and the rest of Europe. Yasha wasn’t about to send his military into winter battle as that was a losing proposition in his mind at the moment. Then again things happened so quickly he wasn’t in position to launch an offensive against the Germans when war did come. He was still moving pieces into position at the moment. Currently everything was on track, but he was waiting for Yermolai. Yasha made a suggestion to Stavka that they should use weapons from Department 66.
When Yasha made a suggestion like that it really was an order. However he had to play some politics as he wasn’t able to brute force everything like he wanted to at the moment. Department 66 was a special weapon program that the Soviet Union had been working on for years. It was the cover for both chemical and biological weapon programs within the Soviet Union. Yasha had made weapon production of all kinds a priory soon after taking power so he could take the revolution to the masses.
Yermolai enter the room in the Kremlin was using as his personal office. To get this far into the Kremlin he had to get through a number of OGPU checkpoints. Yet Yasha also had his own last line of defense, a modified pistol he kept on him from his days as a revolutionary. Yet this meeting when on like others times Yermolai had come here. Then again everyone in the Soviet Union feared Yasha to some degree, but Yasha didn’t want respect as if they fear you they will do a lot more.
The point of this meeting was simply informing Yasha that Stavka was recommending that chemical weapons were to be used for the coming offensive. They recommended the use of HL agent[2]. With the laws of Soviet Union the General Secretary of the Soviet Union had to approve the use of special weapons. Yasha approved the use of HL agent.
[1] The Soviets still have about the same industrial strength as OTL. However Yasha the ITL Stalin, wants the Soviet Union at the same strength as the British or Germans in 1935, but they aren’t anywhere close to that and it pisses him off to no end.
[2] A Lewisite-Mustard Gas mix.
Look more like a Saddam Hussein wanna-be...and yeah using chemical weapon in the first strike will surely help, till the other side (that had his own big reserve of that kind of weapon) start using it against your troops and territory and all the fun disappear. From the description of the URSS industrial situation, seem that a long war (like OTL WW2) will not very in favor of them due to the disparity in industrial production and it's a given that the Soviet will suffer a bombardement campaign degrading things further while the contrary is not a given unless ITTL Soviet doesn't have an efficient aviation unlike OTL (plus the man in charge better remember that training take is own time, otherwise the soldiers are more a liability than a resources)
The reality is that chemical weapons have limited utility against well trained troops. When used on the front lines it means the attacking troops have to traverse the contaminated zone which means they are as likely to be affected as the attacked forces. In WWI gas was useful early on when protection was nonexistent or limited, once everyone had effective gas masks, gas just made everyone more miserable - on both sides. The best military use of chemical weapons (and by this I exclude terror attacks against civilians) is to put persistent agents on transportation nodes, supply depots, airfields - not so much front line use.
Here the mustard-lewisite mixture, unlike persistent nerve agents, is minimally effective in this role. Furthermore it is doubtful the Russians can deliver the agent in meaningful quantities in this fashion. Finally, I am willing to bet the German and German allied forces are better equipped and trained to deal with gas weapons than the Russian troops, meaning the use of gas will tactically not be a benefit. Strategically, this will rebound negatively on the Russians as the Germans have more gas, and better means of delivering by air as well as artillery as well as the Russians taking on the stigma of using gas.
Here the mustard-lewisite mixture, unlike persistent nerve agents, is minimally effective in this role. Furthermore it is doubtful the Russians can deliver the agent in meaningful quantities in this fashion. Finally, I am willing to bet the German and German allied forces are better equipped and trained to deal with gas weapons than the Russian troops, meaning the use of gas will tactically not be a benefit. Strategically, this will rebound negatively on the Russians as the Germans have more gas, and better means of delivering by air as well as artillery as well as the Russians taking on the stigma of using gas.
Craig
Banned
Ah yes! But maybe those plucky Brits will "Lend-a-Hand" with a British version of a Lend-Lease Programme! Almost as useful as the American version in OTL!
Poor Britain! I hope they enjoy looking back at their Signature Move in pissing off the Americans back in 19th Century Sandwich Islands.
On the other hand, the US were the equivalent of a rogue nation of his time, a power that refused to take active part of the current congress of nation/balance of power because she want to do as she please.
Regarding giving L-L support to the URSS much depend on how much UK can spare and deliver
Admiral Halsey
Banned
To be fair to the US it wasn't that they didn't want to participate in the balance of power. All they wanted was to have the Hemisphere to themselves and nobody interfere. That was all they wanted and they would've left everyone else alone. That's not a rouge nation that's grandpa wanting the kids to stay off his lawn.
For the 19th that's is being a rogue nation and it's more the new kid take from the old, saying loudly that he want to be left alone and he will leave alone the other...till he decide that he want to expand and start all over again.
While the British really fucked up diplomatically during the last century, the USA are hardly blameless.
Well said and I may use that last sentence in the future lol
That last line becomes even better when thinking of it with Britain and the U.S. specifically. It's hilariously more fitting with the kids wanting grandpa to stay off their lawn.
Admiral Halsey
Banned
The US fought 3 major wars TTL before WW1 hit. The Spanish war which the US would argue was about defending their citizens and not wanting to be pushed around after the insults. The Island war which was them protecting their sphere from outside influences and the 2nd Mexican-American war which the start was really just a big cluster fuck plus it was them getting involved with their own sphere. The only other expansion the US really took apart of besides the Pacific colonization was when they bought the Danish Virgin islands. The US really just wanted the Western Hemisphere to be left the fuck alone by Europe and their history showed it. The US had show "look just leave us alone and we'll leave you alone" but the British decided to fuck themselves over.
Ehm...do you realize that loudly proclaim that an entire Hemisphere is your own it's not what called 'good diplomacy'? Expecially with the UK (at the time) having a lot of interest in the zone, like something called Canada among that; frankly what will be the reaction to China or Russia doing the same?
Plus the USA by proclaiming his own sphere of influence but not wanting be part of the congress of Nation aka the international community of the time become a too big wild card to left uncheaked, expecially because the 'look just leave us alone and we'll leave you alone' rest only on US word about it...and by not wanting to be part of the club with the other power, mean that US word is worth jack.
Admiral Halsey
Banned
Here's the thing the international community at the time was basically Britain does what it wants to and you try to do anything about it and we'll play you off one another. US saw that and said no thank you. The US had every right to not be apart of that system if that didn't want to. Also in regards to Canada IIRC Monroe doctrine until the war didn't include already owned land by a foreign power hence why the US never try to get the British out of Canada until the war.