The Iron Eagle - The History of the Cold War

[Fratsup]

Reading the entire thing about Russia rebuilding does seem somewhat unrealistic as Siberia is notorious for not being the best at agriculture, industry, or massive settlements unless Russia had about another 50 to a 100 years which would be more realistic a time frame.

Also I feel Russia would suffer majorly from such mass militarization and industrial push. The Germans, Japanese, North Koreans, Soviet Union, South Korea and so on all tried it and failed hard as their economy suffered as the nation could not sustain such massive industrialization or militarization. Either Russia is heading to major problems or they will have to shift focus just to survive.

Lastly Russia lacks people. Even if we count millions of refugees moving into Siberia we are still talking about a nation that would lack population and a way to replace it. The Soviets did it and it cost them the long term future, and I do not see this Russia having much more luck in that department. Ones the Russians suffer major losses the systems in place will start to break down as more people are sent to fight leaving less to be found at home.

Mind you the reich would have similar problems but at least they have an actual homeland and reserve to fall back on to. It really depends on what the Germans do about the conflict.

 

[skarosianlifeform]

I wonder what WMDs were produced by Russia. Probably a lot of chemical weapons, as well as medium-range missiles that can reach Germany.

Reading the entire thing about Russia rebuilding does seem somewhat unrealistic as Siberia is notorious for not being the best at agriculture, industry, or massive settlements unless Russia had about another 50 to a 100 years which would be more realistic a time frame.

Also I feel Russia would suffer majorly from such mass militarization and industrial push. The Germans, Japanese, North Koreans, Soviet Union, South Korea and so on all tried it and failed hard as their economy suffered as the nation could not sustain such massive industrialization or militarization. Either Russia is heading to major problems or they will have to shift focus just to survive.

Lastly Russia lacks people. Even if we count millions of refugees moving into Siberia we are still talking about a nation that would lack population and a way to replace it. The Soviets did it and it cost them the long term future, and I do not see this Russia having much more luck in that department. Ones the Russians suffer major losses the systems in place will start to break down as more people are sent to fight leaving less to be found at home.

Mind you the reich would have similar problems but at least they have an actual homeland and reserve to fall back on to. It really depends on what the Germans do about the conflict.

This policy might cost Russia its long term future. But that's tomorrow Russia's problem. Current problem between the two wars was to prepare for the next round with Nazis.

Also, mass quick industrialization is, here, massively supported by the USA.

Russia is limited to Siberia but also has the Urals and Kazan, plus Central Asia, which would help for industry and agriculture.

About population, it's hard to estimate, but Germans deported Eastern Europeans beyond the border by dozens of millions (before eventually shopping), plus the refugees from all over Festung Europa.

 

[farmerted555]

Pop some popcorn, folks, because this is bound to be one hell of a ride!

To hell with the popcorn, I'm making a full-on pot roast!

 

[Brylyth]

Given the recent anti-christianity move by the Reich, Russia will find itself being very heavily supported by the Bible belt in the USA as a way to fight the "pagan monsters" in Europe. Help and support wipl be coming both from charities, volunteers and official government sponsorship. I would not be surprised if a Russia lobby forms in DC to give aid.

 

[22000 Kevin]

The Ural War will be Germany's Vietnam then?

Well it's possible, but the Luftwaffe will not be politically restricted as the USAF was during Operation rolling Thunder and will not be facing sophisticated Missiles systems like the S-75 Dvina.

 

[Gabingston]

Given the recent anti-christianity move by the Reich, Russia will find itself being very heavily supported by the Bible belt in the USA as a way to fight the "pagan monsters" in Europe. Help and support wipl be coming both from charities, volunteers and official government sponsorship. I would not be surprised if a Russia lobby forms in DC to give aid.

I'm not sure if they'd care that much for the Eastern Orthodox.

 

[Brylyth]

I'm not sure if they'd care that much for the Eastern Orthodox.

They wouldn't, but it's a matter of principle of faith. Better the weird heretics from Russia whose faith in Christ is honest if somewhat misguided than the paganist germans with delusions of replacing Christ with Hitler as they burn churches both Catholic, Lutheran, Calvinist, Evangelical and Orthodox to the ground.

 

[Fratsup]

Actually another problem for both sides is Geography. There are not a lot of places to go across Siberia and Central Asia so most major movement would be done by airdrop which the Reich holds an advantage to. Think Rwanda during the Second Congo War.
There is also the reality that the control of rail lines would be important.

 

[Paladín Wulfen]

@Kaiser of Brazil i have an ask.
What is the situation with dirlewanger?

 

[Kaiser of Brazil]

@Kaiser of Brazil i have an ask.
What is the situation with dirlewanger?

The SS/SSK could not be seen after the war as the new representative of class, law and order while more unsavory elements were part of it. They were useful in suppressing rebellions, such as the retaliation for the killing of Lohse in the Baltics. Eventually Heydrich ensured that he would follow the fate of the Death Camp Komissars, a quiet exile followed by death.

 

[Kaiser of Brazil]

Reading the entire thing about Russia rebuilding does seem somewhat unrealistic as Siberia is notorious for not being the best at agriculture, industry, or massive settlements unless Russia had about another 50 to a 100 years which would be more realistic a time frame.

Also I feel Russia would suffer majorly from such mass militarization and industrial push. The Germans, Japanese, North Koreans, Soviet Union, South Korea and so on all tried it and failed hard as their economy suffered as the nation could not sustain such massive industrialization or militarization. Either Russia is heading to major problems or they will have to shift focus just to survive.

Lastly Russia lacks people. Even if we count millions of refugees moving into Siberia we are still talking about a nation that would lack population and a way to replace it. The Soviets did it and it cost them the long term future, and I do not see this Russia having much more luck in that department. Ones the Russians suffer major losses the systems in place will start to break down as more people are sent to fight leaving less to be found at home.

Mind you the reich would have similar problems but at least they have an actual homeland and reserve to fall back on to. It really depends on what the Germans do about the conflict.

Workers are generally more motivated by an existential threat, and it does help to receive a blank cheque from an economical superpower. But truth is that the Russian reconstruction was hyperfocalized on military heavy industry, Ilyin's concerns on American influence illustrate that much of the needs for consumer goods came from imports of American and British companies.

You mention failure in the hypermilitarization of countries such as Germany and the Soviet Union, I argue the opposite. Their economy did struggle and there is a good argument that the German economy was a time bomb, but they did fulfill the goal of militarized their countries for the most total and destructive war in World History, if the German War Economy was a disaster then the War would not have lasted until 1945, and if the Soviet War Economy was also a disaster then the war would not have lasted until 1945 for a whole different reason.

The Russian Economy, even before 1948, was built for war, and it is quite able to use it's almost limitless source of resources and the American Lend-Lease to fuel their machinery enough to survive a war of attrition which they previously had lost. If they can actually translate this into a successful civilian economy or remain stuck as a Continental-sized North Korea propped up by the US remains to be seen.

 

[Fratsup]

The Russian Economy, even before 1948, was built for war, and it is quite able to use it's almost limitless source of resources and the American Lend-Lease to fuel their machinery enough to survive a war of attrition which they previously had lost. If they can actually translate this into a successful civilian economy or remain stuck as a Continental-sized North Korea propped up by the US remains to be seen.

How many live this Russia?
Like I understand holding on but at some point the amount of resources extracted will not be able to keep up with the population needed to use those resources. The Soviets showed this since they had to use a large amount of American land lease to make up for major shortfalls and the Germans did fall since their production could not keep up with the casualties that they took in the Eastern Europe. Or for that matter than the Germans were stuck fighting in the Balkans, North Africa and such that they could not fully use their numbers on the Eastern front.

This also fails to look at the Germans own higher production which will not be damaged unlike Russian production which even if heavily fortified will have to deal with loses from bombardments or from being occupied lowering their production overall and leading to more resources being put to cover said shortfalls.

 

[Kaiser of Brazil]

How many live this Russia?
Like I understand holding on but at some point the amount of resources extracted will not be able to keep up with the population needed to use those resources. The Soviets showed this since they had to use a large amount of American land lease to make up for major shortfalls and the Germans did fall since their production could not keep up with the casualties that they took in the Eastern Europe. Or for that matter than the Germans were stuck fighting in the Balkans, North Africa and such that they could not fully use their numbers on the Eastern front.

This also fails to look at the Germans own higher production which will not be damaged unlike Russian production which even if heavily fortified will have to deal with loses from bombardments or from being occupied lowering their production overall and leading to more resources being put to cover said shortfalls.

I would say approximately 80 million if considering the losses from the Civil War but adding the return of emigrees and millions of deported civilians from the west. The Germans weren't just cartoon villains who wished to kill all in the Eastern territories, most of the "excess" was deported or starved to death in the Hunger Plan, only in the late 40s did the focus switch to mass enslavement, something which became the main policy after Speer became Minister of Economy in 1951.

Here, the Russians will have that same Lend Lease, it will be a considerable factor considering how much the American economy would've grown by 1958. Although the Germans are still ahead when it comes to having a headstart if they wish to convert their industry. In the beginning of the War the Germans will believe it to be an easy victory.

As for occupation, the Russians don't need to worry much, the majority of their cities west of the Urals are already set to have their industries and civilian population evacuated to the East at the outbreak of a war. The Germans also have no interest in crossing the Ural Mountains as the whole point of the war is to make it their border (and if they started crossing into Siberia the logistics to cross the mountains would be an absolute nightmare), there is a reason why they did not attack the Swiss in the alps and preferred to sit and wait for them to starve, they plan to do something similar by conquering the European part of Russia and use their Air Force and new Long-range bombers to bring Siberia back into the stone age.

On the other hand, the Russians know a direct confrontation with the Wehrmacht wouldn't be advantageous at the border where they are at their strongest. They plan to retreat eastwards to avoid a static defense that the Germans are great at breaking, rather they will give up scorched terrain to burn out the first strike of the Blitz and wear out the Wehr by lighting up the powder barrel in the east through mass sabotage and partisan attacks. Once the Germans are worn out that is when a counter attack is possible. Their objective is to survive what gave the Germans the victory before (A decisive lightning strike) without incurring high losses.

But of course, many things can go wrong with that plan.

 

[Fratsup]

I would say approximately 80 million if considering the losses from the Civil War but adding the return of emigrees and millions of deported civilians from the west. The Germans weren't just cartoon villains who wished to kill all in the Eastern territories, most of the "excess" was deported or starved to death in the Hunger Plan, only in the late 40s did the focus switch to mass enslavement, something which became the main policy after Speer became Minister of Economy in 1951.

That is a large number and at that point Russia would be barely able to feed the population without major America support and even then I still find that number to high. Like the population of the area is not even that big OTL so I do not think the farms would be able to support that amount of people at least not at this time frame.

As for occupation, the Russians don't need to worry much, the majority of their cities west of the Urals are already set to have their industries and civilian population evacuated to the East at the outbreak of a war. The Germans also have no interest in crossing the Ural Mountains as the whole point of the war is to make it their border (and if they started crossing into Siberia the logistics to cross the mountains would be an absolute nightmare), there is a reason why they did not attack the Swiss in the alps and preferred to sit and wait for them to starve, they plan to do something similar by conquering the European part of Russia and use their Air Force and new Long-range bombers to bring Siberia back into the stone age.

I mean the mountains are not actually that tall or hard to cross, but I can agree on the difficulty which lets face will also affect the Russians just as much if not more so since all of their rail lines will be targeted by bombardment or occupation. Like there is only so much they could transport across the rail lines assuming they are still useful. Also if the Russians do hold Central Asia then that is another region the Reich can advance across as I do not think the Russians would have the worlds best navy or air force.

On the other hand, the Russians know a direct confrontation with the Wehrmacht wouldn't be advantageous at the border where they are at their strongest. They plan to retreat eastwards to avoid a static defense that the Germans are great at breaking, rather they will give up scorched terrain to burn out the first strike of the Blitz and wear out the Wehr by lighting up the powder barrel in the east through mass sabotage and partisan attacks. Once the Germans are worn out that is when a counter attack is possible. Their objective is to survive what gave the Germans the victory before (A decisive lightning strike) without incurring high losses.

I cannot see such a plan succeeding. The mass partisan attacks will eventually hit major German military forces and will die or be forced to retreat, and the mass sabotage would also hurt their ability to counter attack as their own means for transportation would now be destroyed. Also a counter attack would just be a stupid move since they would put themselves in the open to massive air attacks and being surrounded by German reinforcements.

 

[Brylyth]

A economic depression and slump after yhe war from hyperfocusing on war industry is preferable to death. They can worry about increasing the standard of living, cars and luxury goods once their lives are secure.

That is the Russian Economic Policy

 

[Dunois]

Reading the entire thing about Russia rebuilding does seem somewhat unrealistic as Siberia is notorious for not being the best at agriculture, industry, or massive settlements.

Doing some research before saying this would have been useful.
Large tracts of Siberia, especially around the Altai, Urals and Steppes are suitable for agriculture. Siberia was becoming the World's largest butter producer before the Russian Civil War and subsequent collectivisation.
Even OTL, Siberia and the Far East account for a quarter of Russia's agricultural output.

Siberia's soils and climate are similar to the Canadian prairies. Unlike in our history, Russia can count on technical help from America here. With free farmers and expertise from fellow Slavs who settled the Canadian prairies. Siberia wont have any problems feeding itself by the late 1950s.

There is already a lot of industry in Siberia OTL. Energy resources are abundant, the Angara, Ob and Yenisei can be dammed like they were OTL. Coal, gas and oil are scattered around too.

 

[Fratsup]

Alright then I can agree on that but even then if Russia did have a civil war before the Tsar came in it would take a few more years to get the major developments going but that's just me.

 

[Dunois]

Alright then I can agree on that but even then if Russia did have a civil war before the Tsar came in it would take a few more years to get the major developments going but that's just me.

I am inclined to agree to an extent. The discovery of Ural oilfields feels a bit rushed for example. However, with US expertise and capital it can happen.

 

[Brylyth]

IMO it makes perfect sense. Russia is desperatly looking for anything to build a industrial base, recover and rearm. Natural resource exploitation is a natural fit for Siberia so commissioning searches for oil from US technicians would be a natural development.

 

[Ahab]

What is going on in Central Asia? Are they still part of the Empire? What is their living conditions compared to Siberia?