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I always wondered how much the German Nazi's in such a event would aid the Chinese KMT just on basis of preventing another Soviet-like Communist major nation state on the world, when looking at such map.
 
I always wondered how much the German Nazi's in such a event would aid the Chinese KMT just on basis of preventing another Soviet-like Communist major nation state on the world, when looking at such map.
Especially as Chiang did have strong ties to Nazi Germany prior to the Second Sino-Japanese War IOTL.
 
Especially as Chiang did have strong ties to Nazi Germany prior to the Second Sino-Japanese War IOTL.
Yeah certain right-wing parts of the KMT even modelled their Blueshirts and other aspects after them, so even if the Nazi's see them as inferior in their twisted world view, I always assumed that would still be better as a influential trade partner in East Asia (at least after the Japanese Empire is gone) to replace the Japanese in the area and overall much better for them then any Communist, or left-leaning China. Then again these are looney Nazi's we talk about, much of what they did was neither logical, nor sensical, even if hold only to their own belives and ideological doctrine as they are crazy insane madmen, so ....
 
Yeah certain right-wing parts of the KMT even modelled their Blueshirts and other aspects after them, so even if the Nazi's see them as inferior in their twisted world view, I always assumed that would still be better as a influential trade partner in East Asia (at least after the Japanese Empire is gone) to replace the Japanese in the area and overall much better for them then any Communist, or left-leaning China. Then again these are looney Nazi's we talk about, much of what they did was neither logical, nor sensical, even if hold only to their own belives and ideological doctrine as they are crazy insane madmen, so ....
On that note, a crossover between this and @CELTICEMPIRE's fine Without The Kuomintang, There Would Be No China TL would be an interesting TL to ponder.
 
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Looking at the map I am surprised that the communists managed to even take over China. While the communists were popular with the people the lack of support from the soviets would have done massive damage to the communist war effort which also assumes the warlords would have even supported the communists in this TL.
 
Looking at the map I am surprised that the communists managed to even take over China. While the communists were popular with the people the lack of support from the soviets would have done massive damage to the communist war effort which also assumes the warlords would have even supported the communists in this TL.

Communists had some domestic support but even then I would had expected divided China.
 
Looking at the map I am surprised that the communists managed to even take over China. While the communists were popular with the people the lack of support from the soviets would have done massive damage to the communist war effort which also assumes the warlords would have even supported the communists in this TL.
It helped out Mao the fact the IJA fought an extra year against the NRA and conducted a brutal scorched land policy as they were pushed back, plus the US cutting aid to China in 1949 (Hey, money for Healthcare had to come from somewhere, right?).
 
It helped out Mao the fact the IJA fought an extra year against the NRA and conducted a brutal scorched land policy as they were pushed back, plus the US cutting aid to China in 1949 (Hey, money for Healthcare had to come from somewhere, right?).
Not sure this would actually help since most regions that Japan effectively controlled were where the communists were operating from. If anything the scorched earth policy would have greatly weakened the communists since thousands of their supporters would be dead and most of the infrastructure they could use would be gone or destroyed.

I mean at this point most of the KMT forces were already at the interior far away from the Japanese so any scorched earth would have only hurt Japan and the Communist and not the KMT who could easily take advantage of the situation and retake territory. Like it goes without saying that Mao won mostly due to Soviet support since even the Soviets were more supportive of the KMT at some points.

What I am saying is that the communist winning is one of the more implausible bits of this alternate history outside of the Nazis winning.
 
Not sure this would actually help since most regions that Japan effectively controlled were where the communists were operating from. If anything the scorched earth policy would have greatly weakened the communists since thousands of their supporters would be dead and most of the infrastructure they could use would be gone or destroyed.

I mean at this point most of the KMT forces were already at the interior far away from the Japanese so any scorched earth would have only hurt Japan and the Communist and not the KMT who could easily take advantage of the situation and retake territory. Like it goes without saying that Mao won mostly due to Soviet support since even the Soviets were more supportive of the KMT at some points.

What I am saying is that the communist winning is one of the more implausible bits of this alternate history outside of the Nazis winning.
If you are talking about Manchuria, that area specifically was not struck like the others exactly because of Puyi's coup against the collapsing IJA forces, the scorched land did hit which were some of the core centers of the Nationalist government such as Wuhan and Nanjing, and while the NRA did not control it for years, it is still a great loss since Chiang would have to tie down resources. That is not including the offensives launched by the NRA in 1946 in an attempt to drive out the IJA when the Japanese forces collapsed in Southeast Asia, which spent many of the resources of Chiang's army as the Japanese Army was still a formidable opponent for the Chinese forces.

I do not disagree with the fact the Nationalists had a better chance at winning but I disagree in the belief it would be implausible. While the Soviets are not helping Mao, remember that the West is not sending much help to Chiang either. The British will not send weapons to him while they have Hitler breathing down their necks 24/7 and the US cut off their military help under Long's Presidency, and even before that, most of their surplus went to the Russian campaign in 1947 because there was already not much goodwill between Chiang and the Western Leaders by the late WWII even in our world, nevermind in one where the Soviet Union is not a threat at all and instead there is the fact the Chinese government did openly collaborate with the current enemy of the Western world in the past (would not weight down a lot, but it would be a point anti-ROC politicians would raise).
 
If you are talking about Manchuria, that area specifically was not struck like the others exactly because of Puyi's coup against the collapsing IJA forces, the scorched land did hit which were some of the core centers of the Nationalist government such as Wuhan and Nanjing, and while the NRA did not control it for years, it is still a great loss since Chiang would have to tie down resources. That is not including the offensives launched by the NRA in 1946 in an attempt to drive out the IJA when the Japanese forces collapsed in Southeast Asia, which spent many of the resources of Chiang's army as the Japanese Army was still a formidable opponent for the Chinese forces.
I mean by this point most of Chiang resources were in the west at this point and I would say the Japanese practically already did a scorched earth policy the first time they conquered the region considered how badly damaged it was during the Japanese conquest and occupation. So its not like things would be much different for the KMT at that point. Also I do find it hard to believe the IJA would be a formidable force since by this point most of their forces would be returning to the home island to defend them like OTL.

Edit: Actually Wuhan was greatly destroyed OTL by the Americans who bombed the place so the whole ordeal would have little effect on the KMT operations in the region.

I do not disagree with the fact the Nationalists had a better chance at winning but I disagree in the belief it would be implausible. While the Soviets are not helping Mao, remember that the West is not sending much help to Chiang either. The British will not send weapons to him while they have Hitler breathing down their necks 24/7 and the US cut off their military help under Long's Presidency, and even before that, most of their surplus went to the Russian campaign in 1947 because there was already not much goodwill between Chiang and the Western Leaders by the late WWII even in our world, nevermind in one where the Soviet Union is not a threat at all and instead there is the fact the Chinese government did openly collaborate with the current enemy of the Western world in the past (would not weight down a lot, but it would be a point anti-ROC politicians would raise).
This ignores just how dependent the early communist were on the Soviets and their supplies or the warlords in the region. If anything since the Soviets are gone there would be less of a reason for the warlords to support Mao/the communists at all since he would lack the major backing of any major power at this point. Also its not like the KMT cannot just take the weapons of the IJA since they are going to be to busy leaving to actually put up much of a fight or the reality that at this point the KMT can make their own weapons and could fight the communist even when they were dealing with a worse situation OTL.

Considering they just have to deal with Mao the KMT would either win or have to deal with constant communist attacks or even a divided China which is more likely than Mao outright winning the Chinese civil war.
 
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