I am now 99% sure it was intended to be on
the moon
Also, I'm with Denliner on how not only would an EPCOT as intended be too expensive, but an ethical/moral nightmare.
A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
- Start date
- Status
Also, I'm with Denliner on how not only would an EPCOT as intended be too expensive, but an ethical/moral nightmare.
not even cool. when i read it it reminds of a futuristic version of company towns that had exist for a century by the time of walts death, especially the hyper regulated aspect of living there sounds kinda anti-democratic.
EPCOT (concept) - Wikipedia
Company town - Wikipedia
Yeah, I prefer the current EPCOT far more than Walt's idea (a source of inspiration and learning of the sciences and the humanities), and I think Jim could take it to new heights with the care it desperately needed OTL (IIRC EPCOT was his favorite park). EPCOT is already bigger with the new World Showcase/Future World Pavilions, and I certainly want to help expand the theme park a bit more, as I've already divulged what I want for the World Showcase throughout this thread (but not Future World, as those are definitely spoilers!).
Defunctland also referenced those company towns and how those eventually failed in a few years, so that's another reason why I don't want the original EPCOT.
Last edited:
To be fair both of these incidents were related to the Sicilian mafia who honestly thought they could successfully assassinate Mario Cuomo until they saw how heavy his security detail was:The early 1990s sucked for Italy off top of my head two incidents come to mind.
Capaci bombing - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Via D'Amelio bombing - Wikipedia
Mafia planned to kill Mario Cuomo during Italy trip as New York governor
Hitman says mob planned ambush with men who had rifles and explosives, but the Cosa Nostra called off attack when scale of security detail became apparent
www.theguardian.com
First off were any existing amusement parks targeted by the IRA? Second would the IRA want to involve American law enforcement/military in their private war against the British government by targeting an American company like Disney?But to be fair despite it’s great infrastructure 1992 UK is not a spot I’d put a theme park either unless I want the IRA to set a bomb off near or in it.
Baltic Exchange bombing - Wikipedia
DisneyNature wouldn't exist until 2008. Also why do a Disney Nature Channel if they're possibly connected with Nat Geo?
Why, company towns have ever worked and have only ever gone wrong:
EPCOT (concept) - Wikipedia
As long as you didn't oppose the mafia, that's why both Paolo Borsellino and Giovanni Falcone were assassinated as spectacularly as they were (they destroyed a highway just to make sure they got Falcone.
It's funny to hear about a delay that isn't corruption based.
Is Paperinik somehow replacing Darkwing Duck?
And it probably still does ITTL. The real question is who, if anyone, buys them in 1996.
Could you imagine your residency in this town was not only predicated on you having a job with Disney but also everyone in your family following the Disney dress code because your home was also an attraction.
Depends on how the butterflies flutter since Darkwing was an original concept stemming from DuckTales (which was replaced by Duck Duck Goof! ITTL). Paperinik seems to predate Darkwing so I can easily see Disney adapt Paperinik as a TV series as something like The Duck Avenger with a tie-in to Duck Duck Goof! with a character similar to Darkwing as an original rival/partner, since Valencia might open opportunities for Italian contributions to the Disney company.
Yeah, no thanks. Walt did some great things with Disneyland and Disney World but this idea was simply terrible.
Well Organized crime globally was not doing well in 1992. Only the Colombians were doing decently. The Russian mob was getting its footing, the Yakuza was hurting but they still had a lot of power but a little movie came out in May of 1992 that is a comedy that pokes fun at the Yakuza and shows a woman standing up to themTo be fair both of these incidents were related to the Sicilian mafia who honestly thought they could successfully assassinate Mario Cuomo until they saw how heavy his security detail was:
Mafia planned to kill Mario Cuomo during Italy trip as New York governor
Hitman says mob planned ambush with men who had rifles and explosives, but the Cosa Nostra called off attack when scale of security detail became apparent
Minbo - Wikipedia
But yeah the Sicilian Mob had brass ones. They thought they were untouchable.
Not to my knowledge but there is probably a better reason not to be opening a a park in 1992.
Early 1990s recession - Wikipedia
Yeah. London's Crossrail is having a similar problem.
Crossrail - Wikipedia
Some funny things below
Why build a new park when Chessington could just transform a portion of their park into a Disneytown until the Recession ends.
I remember Space Mountain before FastPass. I remember how much better FP made most days. And I remember the screwed-up mess FastPass+ created for anyone who wasn't able/willing to flush spontaneity and regiment/over-plan their vacation months in advance. Don't know about you, but that is exactly what I take vacations to GET AWAY FROM. And with Genie, the magic is finally dead.
True. But hey politicians love getting that tax revenue. And they can say they got their constituents jobs.
Something I would really be interested to see ITTL, is if Disney adapts the original script/story for Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas written by Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio that Disney was originally supposed to adapt before Jeffrey Katzenberg basically took it with him when he created Dreamworks. The video below talks about it:
The original script is somewhat interesting, but it kind of got changed from the writers original intention by executive meddling for being too mature (mainly because it featured a love triangle, had Marina have little weight to her character, and Sinbad’s ending being more tragic as he ultimately doesn’t end up with Marina). I still prefer the final film and its story mind you, but I do think the original script is slightly interesting to hear about (well mainly the tragic ending aspect at least with Sinbad chosing to sacrifice his own happiness and not end up with Marina and sailing off alone is somewhat intriguing to me, even if there are some serious issues with it as well as the video gets into). So it’d be interesting if that version happens instead.
The original script is somewhat interesting, but it kind of got changed from the writers original intention by executive meddling for being too mature (mainly because it featured a love triangle, had Marina have little weight to her character, and Sinbad’s ending being more tragic as he ultimately doesn’t end up with Marina). I still prefer the final film and its story mind you, but I do think the original script is slightly interesting to hear about (well mainly the tragic ending aspect at least with Sinbad chosing to sacrifice his own happiness and not end up with Marina and sailing off alone is somewhat intriguing to me, even if there are some serious issues with it as well as the video gets into). So it’d be interesting if that version happens instead.
Last edited:
After taking one close look at Paperinik...
Wait, this is actually cool! The butterflies also seem very favorable in bringing this to the states as a TV series too....hmmmm, could this actually happen? 🤔
Hmmmmm...a Disney hotel in New York for the Vacation Club? Now that's an interesting idea.
Since we're talking about Times Square, I actually wonder whether Disney will help renovate that area or not. It would be wild if the ITTL Times Square was less of the commercialized shopping/tourist area it was now and more of a seedy underbelly, but perhaps it could happen under Henson, who has ties to New York thanks to the Muppet Workshop.
Hmmmmm...a Disney hotel in New York for the Vacation Club? Now that's an interesting idea.
I honestly think it is better for Chessington to not change their existing park infrastructure because of the monetary cost of closing attractions and the already existing fanbase that might be saddened to see some of the rides go in favor of Disneyfied versions. Since Disney is probably paying the lion's share of the cost for Disneytown London as part of the deal, it's fair to say that Chessington will receive DTL as a newly built neighbor theme park.
Planning and vacation tips are cool, but FP+ seriously disadvantaged ordinary visitors by making it so difficult to learn and prepare for. I don't think Disney will make similar decisions to that ITTL since Laval and his successors would focus on guest satisfaction and flexibility while in the park, which the original FastPass and MaxPass did exceptionally well. Don't fix what ain't broke.
I think it's Pearson who wants a UK Disneytown so I imagine they'll pay the lion's share of the cost.
For me, it's Disney because Pearson was the one who invested in Valencia and DisneySea to keep them afloat, so it's natural that they would ask Disney to pay for the costs for Disneytown London in exchange.
Walt Disney World Foxconn... what could possibly go wrong?not even cool. when i read it it reminds of a futuristic version of company towns that had exist for a century by the time of walts death, especially the hyper regulated aspect of living there sounds kinda anti-democratic.
EPCOT (concept) - Wikipedia
Company town - Wikipedia
Peaches and Palmetto Bugs
Chapter 24: A Peach of a Location (Cont’d)
From Theme Park Confidential: The Corporate Machinations and Machiavellian Intrigue behind your Favorite Parks, by E. Z. Ryder
In 1992 Columbia Peach Grove Studios and Park opened to the public, just weeks ahead of the grand opening of the Warner Movie World expansion to Six Flags over Georgia. The crew had worked overtime, and at great expense, to beat Warner to the punch. Ted Turner had made it a personal mission to beat the rival project that he’d personally dubbed (much amused at his own cleverness) “Palmetto Bugs”.
“Palmetto Bugs will be open in just three months!” he reportedly told his board, “We need to get that goddamn Scooby house working!”
Like “Black Sunday” at the original Disneyland and the similarly nearly disastrous opening of Universal Studios Florida just a couple of years earlier, Peach Grove Studios had a rough opening day, with disgruntled crowds, long wait times, and malfunctioning rides, in particular the Totally Fun built animatronics for the Scooby Doo’s Mystery Manor attraction, which was to be the crowning attraction for Hanna-Barbera’s Cartoon City. For the life of them they couldn’t get the great unmasking scene (where Fred pulls off the Ghostly Colonel’s mask to reveal that it was, to the surprise of nobody, Old Man Devereaux the whole time) to work properly.
By week three most of the worst bugs were worked out. The Rocketeer-based ride, originally intended to have the guests lying prone before ergonomic and safety concerns drove it into a more traditional inverted coaster design, was working well enough as a partially-indoor thrill ride with some spectacular scenes (like the Zeppelin encounter), despite the film not being a spectacular blockbuster. The Tom & Jerry’s Wild Chase indoor track ride was popular with all ages. The Flintstone’s Bedrock neighborhood was looking great. The Jellystone Park Picnic Place food courts were popular, with their Chuck E. Cheese like animatronic shows featuring Yogi and other H-B classic characters. And if Jetsons Towers were a bit too much like Tomorrowland and the John Ford inspired Boot Hill a bit like an uninspired copy of Frontierland to some, Turner could live with it. The Stone Mountain Battlefield, where reenactments of famous battles occurred – not just Revolutionary or Civil War, but World Wars, Medieval battles, and the like – was proving a rather unique attraction and served double-duty as a place to film for Columbia Pictures.
But Turner and Totally Fun’s Peter Alexander were most proud of the Close Encounter attraction, a big, outdoor attraction with a giant descending UFO and a mockup of Devil’s Tower, based on the climactic scene of the Spielberg-directed Close Encounters of the Third Kind and made in partnership with Amblin (Spielberg by this point was being playfully referred to as a “theme park whore” for his willingness to sponsor competing attractions with any company). While the fifteen-year-old film had largely fallen out of the public eye, the attraction was so well done as to win high praise (and several awards) within the amusement park industry. Guests said it was best after dark when all the lights were at their most impressive.
Otherwise, Columbia Peach Grove Park was mostly standard-issue spinning rides, roller coasters, a flume ride, and carousels, each given various Columbia, CBS, or H‑B theming, and hardly much to write home about. The general lack of good IP was becoming a hindrance with so many of Columbia’s films being old or just not something that translated to a park attraction. Turner nearly flipped out when someone suggested a Tootsie-based drag show, for example. Columbia Pictures was frankly struggling to make a real name for itself. Their biggest recent hit had been Dances with Wolves, but Kevin Costner refused to allow it to be made into an attraction or even have the film’s characters featured at Boot Hill.
Even so, Peach Grove was managing to bring in guests, even after “Palmetto Bugs” opened across the city. The studio tours were popular, as was the tour of the H-B animation studio. And strangely, Peach Grove and Warner Movie World turned out to be mutually beneficial, as tourists would go to the one park on their first day and the other on the second, the crosstown rivalry ironically working well for a long weekend style visit.
And yet one of the biggest knock-on effects of Peach Grove was that it spurred a reckoning in Columbia Pictures, with an irate Turner lambasting his studio executives to stop “phoning things in” with forgettable films and give him an Indiana Jones or Star Wars level hit that lent itself well to “park synergy”. Columbia Pictures head Dawn Steel pushed back, not afraid to tangle with Turner. The two had many a knock-down, drag-out fight with bets being placed on how much longer Steel had before Turner replaced her, or she left for greener pastures.
In the end, however, both knew that Columbia Pictures needed a win, and needed one soon, so they set aside their differences and set out to find that Big Film that could be Tuner’s Indiana Jones. Steel approached Kevin Costner with a screenplay that Turner had snagged after a long bidding war with Triad and Warner Brothers. Costner read through the screenplay, falling in love with its post-apocalyptic setting and its potential for sweeping cinematography and action, and signed up on the spot.
From Theme Park Confidential: The Corporate Machinations and Machiavellian Intrigue behind your Favorite Parks, by E. Z. Ryder
In 1992 Columbia Peach Grove Studios and Park opened to the public, just weeks ahead of the grand opening of the Warner Movie World expansion to Six Flags over Georgia. The crew had worked overtime, and at great expense, to beat Warner to the punch. Ted Turner had made it a personal mission to beat the rival project that he’d personally dubbed (much amused at his own cleverness) “Palmetto Bugs”.
“Palmetto Bugs will be open in just three months!” he reportedly told his board, “We need to get that goddamn Scooby house working!”
Like “Black Sunday” at the original Disneyland and the similarly nearly disastrous opening of Universal Studios Florida just a couple of years earlier, Peach Grove Studios had a rough opening day, with disgruntled crowds, long wait times, and malfunctioning rides, in particular the Totally Fun built animatronics for the Scooby Doo’s Mystery Manor attraction, which was to be the crowning attraction for Hanna-Barbera’s Cartoon City. For the life of them they couldn’t get the great unmasking scene (where Fred pulls off the Ghostly Colonel’s mask to reveal that it was, to the surprise of nobody, Old Man Devereaux the whole time) to work properly.
By week three most of the worst bugs were worked out. The Rocketeer-based ride, originally intended to have the guests lying prone before ergonomic and safety concerns drove it into a more traditional inverted coaster design, was working well enough as a partially-indoor thrill ride with some spectacular scenes (like the Zeppelin encounter), despite the film not being a spectacular blockbuster. The Tom & Jerry’s Wild Chase indoor track ride was popular with all ages. The Flintstone’s Bedrock neighborhood was looking great. The Jellystone Park Picnic Place food courts were popular, with their Chuck E. Cheese like animatronic shows featuring Yogi and other H-B classic characters. And if Jetsons Towers were a bit too much like Tomorrowland and the John Ford inspired Boot Hill a bit like an uninspired copy of Frontierland to some, Turner could live with it. The Stone Mountain Battlefield, where reenactments of famous battles occurred – not just Revolutionary or Civil War, but World Wars, Medieval battles, and the like – was proving a rather unique attraction and served double-duty as a place to film for Columbia Pictures.
But Turner and Totally Fun’s Peter Alexander were most proud of the Close Encounter attraction, a big, outdoor attraction with a giant descending UFO and a mockup of Devil’s Tower, based on the climactic scene of the Spielberg-directed Close Encounters of the Third Kind and made in partnership with Amblin (Spielberg by this point was being playfully referred to as a “theme park whore” for his willingness to sponsor competing attractions with any company). While the fifteen-year-old film had largely fallen out of the public eye, the attraction was so well done as to win high praise (and several awards) within the amusement park industry. Guests said it was best after dark when all the lights were at their most impressive.
Otherwise, Columbia Peach Grove Park was mostly standard-issue spinning rides, roller coasters, a flume ride, and carousels, each given various Columbia, CBS, or H‑B theming, and hardly much to write home about. The general lack of good IP was becoming a hindrance with so many of Columbia’s films being old or just not something that translated to a park attraction. Turner nearly flipped out when someone suggested a Tootsie-based drag show, for example. Columbia Pictures was frankly struggling to make a real name for itself. Their biggest recent hit had been Dances with Wolves, but Kevin Costner refused to allow it to be made into an attraction or even have the film’s characters featured at Boot Hill.
Even so, Peach Grove was managing to bring in guests, even after “Palmetto Bugs” opened across the city. The studio tours were popular, as was the tour of the H-B animation studio. And strangely, Peach Grove and Warner Movie World turned out to be mutually beneficial, as tourists would go to the one park on their first day and the other on the second, the crosstown rivalry ironically working well for a long weekend style visit.
And yet one of the biggest knock-on effects of Peach Grove was that it spurred a reckoning in Columbia Pictures, with an irate Turner lambasting his studio executives to stop “phoning things in” with forgettable films and give him an Indiana Jones or Star Wars level hit that lent itself well to “park synergy”. Columbia Pictures head Dawn Steel pushed back, not afraid to tangle with Turner. The two had many a knock-down, drag-out fight with bets being placed on how much longer Steel had before Turner replaced her, or she left for greener pastures.
In the end, however, both knew that Columbia Pictures needed a win, and needed one soon, so they set aside their differences and set out to find that Big Film that could be Tuner’s Indiana Jones. Steel approached Kevin Costner with a screenplay that Turner had snagged after a long bidding war with Triad and Warner Brothers. Costner read through the screenplay, falling in love with its post-apocalyptic setting and its potential for sweeping cinematography and action, and signed up on the spot.
Mad Max has already happened I think. Personally betting on Waterworld.
Maybe if Zemeckis directed and Costner produced it ITTL.
- Status