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I wouldn't say that it flopped spectacularly, exactly. It made its budget back (with international sales), which does make it a loss but not a massive one. If it was spectacular it would have gone down like Heaven's Gate with a $3.5 million box office against a $44 million budget or some such. This is just an ordinary flop.

I also want to remind everyone that Jim is still the #1 largest single shareholder in Disney, so even if a bunch of the other shareholders don't like him very much it'll be pretty hard for them to actually kick him off the board or, more to the point, heavily influencing the company. If they really annoy him he could single-handedly tank the company's share price--only temporarily, but still. So while Jim doesn't have free reign here, neither do his opponents.
Point taken, but I guess it's called "Henson's Folly" because of how much he invested into it despite warnings from other execs if the overall box office numbers weren't an issue.

Regardless, Jim is arguably still too valuable to be sacked even without his shares due to his creative input, and his recent blockbuster successes prove that.

We've seen Disney has a streaming service, but nothing about when it started yet.

A Disney Youtube, Jim would like the encouragement of creativity like we've already seen but I'm sure everyone at Disney would like to keep it family friendly.
So no comments and careful content rules?
God I hope that Disney does NOT buy out YouTube or make their own platform, even with Henson at the helm. They'd either have to uphold their family-friendly policies (which would surely restrict the vast majority of content creators) or retain the freedom that allows creators to upload their stuff (unlikely, even for Henson). It would not be a very fun experience compared to modern YouTube, and that's already crappy enough. I just don't see it as a fulfilling social media platform or even a profitable one that can compete with alt YouTube.

Disney Direct is one thing, but having a much stronger social media presence in alt-YouTube would be a huge net-positive for the company. Like say, promotional material or clips from their older shows/behind the scenes content among other things.

Just saying, the idea of Jim founding ITTL's Patreon is still possible in my eyes, and I'd say that's my preferred method of him encouraging creativity over like say a Disney YouTube or even a Disney Multi-Channel Network.

Nice to see Tale of Sand finally make it to film, but I get why it wasn't produced by Disney-MGM given its lack of marketability. In fact, I'd say it is better because it is not beholden to profit or popularity. The fact that Cannes and Sundance gave it such high praise is a victory in of itself for Jim Henson, and I hope that it invigorated him to push for even greater creative risks and imaginative stories.
 
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Is that you, Leo the Lion? I wouldn't put it past you, given that, like Jim Henson, you also remember the days when you weren't chained to Disney's hips.
 
And it is my opinion that the master of the lighter, sillier side of surealismé is none other than Jim Henson.
There speaks a man who has never seen Reeves & Mortimer. But then that oversight is also their loss.

I also agree that a companion "Making of" VCD could be better than the main feature, so many big personalities and egos on a small budget film is bound to generate some great behind the scenes stories.

Nice to see Tale of Sand finally make it to film, but I get why it wasn't produced by Disney-MGM given its lack of marketability. In fact, I'd say it is better because it is not beholden to profit or popularity. The fact that Cannes and Sundance gave it such high praise is a victory in of itself for Jim Henson, and I hope that it invigorated him to push for even greater creative risks and imaginative stories.
I've never really agreed with that sort of attitude, it always has something of an elitist and snobbish undertone. "The public would never understand this, only my fellow artistes can hope to appreciate it." Having seen some of the works that Cannes and Sundance rave about my impression is there is more than a whiff of Emperor's New Clothes about some of it, no-one wants to admit that some of the films are actually terrible because then they won't get invited back and be part of the artistic clique.

Basically;
surely some will assert that the man behind the Muppets is not a true surealisté simply because his art was (gasp!) popular.
It is true that not everything popular is good, but not everything that is unpopular and uncommercial is good either. I mean the Long Ranger remake was very clearly not beholden to profit or popularity, and that was terrible. ;)
 
Mostly, but I think we could expand over the whole western United States. And no I'm not suggesting that this replaces Walker, Texas Ranger but I can see James Wlcek as Lone Ranger and maybe Adam Beach as Tonto.
You know, I can really see that as a good idea. Maybe we can sneak in a couple of crossovers with Davy Crockett or Zorro by having their living descendants meet up with the new Lone Ranger.
 
So, why is everyone obsessed with the Lone Ranger all of a sudden? I know Disney released the Lone Ranger movie with Depp, but beyond that I don’t get the sudden interest.
 
So, why is everyone obsessed with the Lone Ranger all of a sudden? I know Disney released the Lone Ranger movie with Depp, but beyond that I don’t get the sudden interest.
Because Disney outright owns the franchise, due to their purchase of Wrather Corporation. This is also why Benji and Lassie is a thing.
 
Never really cared for Lone Ranger outside of the William Tell theme, but if I had to offer a suggestion... i'd make it a buddy action film, so its probably gonna be TTL's Wild Wild West (though maybe way better).
 
Perhaps Rob Lowe as The Lone Ranger and Graham Green as Tonto. I feel like both would be good in either a traditional or contemporary Lone Ranger story.
 
I know we still have about s7/8 years before this will happen but I'm sowing the grounds for possible inclusion:
 
The Next Disneytowns
Chapter 27: Expanding into Tomorrow (Cont’d)
Excerpt from: From a Figment to a Reality: The Imagineering Method! by Marty Sklar


A year after opening, Disneytown, Philadelphia, was still going strong, though it was performing a bit below our original expectations. After a phenomenal opening three months where it seemed that everyone in the Northeast went to see what the hype was about, attendance dropped off pretty sharply. Honestly, a lot of people were disappointed. They went in expecting Disneyland and instead got, in the words of one guest, “a bunch of arcades and restaurants and kiddie rides.”

Well, that was all true. In fact, had Sesame Place not been a unique experience drawing in lots of guests all by itself, as it long had, the Disneytown might have been a flop. But thankfully, attendance to the Plaza with its night club, bars, and adult themed experiences, was continuing to pull in steady numbers throughout the year and low ticket prices made it a popular spot for locals, though Marriott was annoyed by the lower than expected hotel attendance. But over the summer there was a bump in attendance, just as there was a drop in attendance to Disneyland and Walt Disney World compared to the year before, which we ascribed to the recession, though we all began to fear that we’d just pulled guests away from the big resorts by giving them a cheaper option.

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Image by @Denliner

Well, there was only one way to find out, and that was to try two more Disneytowns. An expensive gamble, but one that would potentially net billions in the long run. We wanted to space them out so that they wouldn’t compete with each other, so after considering Seattle, Portland, Washington, DC, and Chicago, we ultimately decided on Denver, Colorado, and a place in Texas yet to be determined. The Denver location would have some minor competition, namely a water park. Another team member suggested that we consider Colorado Springs, a small city south of Denver which housed the Air Force Academy and would thus benefit from the cadets and many families there. We scouted a few locations, coming close to selecting a flat spot east of Denver until we realized we’d be in the flight path of the Denver International Airport then in planning, and instead we ultimately settled on the small community of Palmer Lake roughly halfway between Denver and Colorado Springs where land was inexpensive and relatively flat but the lake and mountain views[1] were spectacular. We quietly bought up about 200 acres of ranchland a few miles outside of the town, giving us some breathing room, and chose, given the proximity of the Academy and NORAD, to tie it primarily to Tomorrowland, though we’d later give it a small Frontierland-based expansion.

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It’ll do (Image source Pinterst)

I suddenly really wished we hadn’t scrapped the original TWA Moonliner from Disneyland as that would have been a perfect place for it. Instead, we used the space to experiment with some ideas for upgrading Tomorrowland, specifically the “Tomorrowland 1955” idea, which used a deliberately retro-futuristic aesthetic with Googie-inspired architecture and Jetsons-like design. We ultimately did build a scaled down version of the Moonliner. We had the usual Rocket Jets style rides and a deliberately midcentury science fiction matinee inspired simulator ride named Journey to Mars, produced by Tim Burton and featuring “Martian pirates”. It all served as a good test-run on what became the Tomorrowland 1955 upgrade for the Magic Kingdom[2]. Also, inspired by the Muppet pirate pigs animatronic being developed for DisneySea, we added a Pigs in Space audio-animatronic show. Eventually, a skyway into the local foothills was added after a long fight with property owners and anti-development protestors (many of them students from UC Boulder who had no actual skin in the game) that culminated in Disney sponsoring major environmental protection and conservation efforts in the state in compromise.

The placement was a double-edged sword. We were concerned that the resort might be too far from the cities, so we included shuttle service to the Denver airport, the Academy, and a select few places in the Denver and Colorado Springs area. Marriott built the Space Mountain resort (no real connection to the ride, mind you) and we eventually added a Disney Sports Camp location.

We also deliberately courted the local Air Force members with special discounts through MWR and military-themed merchandise. Bo Boyd was amazed at how well USAF Captain Mickey in his flight suit plushies and posters sold, outselling Donald, Goofy, and Minnie by about ten to one! Cadet Mickey and Airman Mickey sold very well as well, as did Army, Navy, and Marine versions. Mickey Mouse in whatever uniform is to this day exceptionally popular with the US military. And other than Seaman Duck or Captain K. Bluey merchandise being popular with the sailors, it’s all Mickey Mouse with the military for reasons that I still don’t’ understand[3]. While we’d chosen Barnstormer McQuacken from Duck, Duck, Goof as the Disneytown mascot, the popularity of Captain Mickey ultimately ended up in him sharing the mascot duties with Ol’ Barnstormer.

As for the Texas site, we considered the Dallas/Fort Worth area, the Houston area, and the Corpus Christi area, but while at a meeting of the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions, I was approached by a representative of USAA Insurance. It seemed that they’d recently acquired an old limestone quarry site on the northwest of San Antonio along I-10 and were actively looking to build a theme park[4]. Sea World was already moving in nearby, which was a minus, but USAA had over 200 acres and lots of capital and really wanted the Disney name. When they heard about the Disneytown project, they made sure to find us.

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Image by @Denliner

This became Disneytown San Antonio and it was tied to Frontierland, but with a very Texan focus. The Disney Plaza (or Plaza de Disney in this case) was based on a traditional Mercado. Native Texan C&W and folk, Tejano, and mariachi musicians and dancers added to the festive atmosphere, as did locally-sourced barbeque and Tex-Mex food options (not to mention the obligatory churros!). The Disneytown area was designed like an old 19th Century Texas frontier town, the fictional San Panchito, with various Spanish and American "Old West" type architecture and with the central building being the old Spanish Presidio of San Panchito de los Pistoles. The Imagineers originally wanted to remake the Alamo as the centerpiece (ideally per the original battle’s layout) and have an audio-animatronic show of the legendary “line in the sand” moment from the Battle of the Alamo, but a focus group of Antonians considered this blasphemous. Instead, inside the Presidio is a “Hall of Texas Heroes” with audio-animatronics ala the Hall of American Presidents, but with famous Texans like Steven Austin and Davy Crockett and Sam Houston and Juan Seguin. But we also included John R Hughes and Bass Reeves, the supposed real-life inspirations for the Lone Ranger, as well as numerous Texans famous for other-than-revolutionary reasons like Tom Landry. Eventually a special Madame Tussauds was created just for Texan heroes in partnership with the Institute of Texan Cultures down the highway from us.

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That’ll do too (Image source KSAT)

We were able to build San Panchito and Plaza de Disney using some of the residual local limestone from the quarry, at least for the façades, though we ironically ran out and had to import limestone back to a quarry site. USAA had some contacts there, so we saved some money. We sent our Imagineers to locations throughout Texas and Mexico to make sure that we got it all right. In the end, San Panchito was a comfortable little Spanish-inspired place with fountains and pergolas and gardens of native plants and palm trees.

And speaking of Panchito, Panchito Pistoles[5] and a cartoon version of The Lone Ranger from the 1991 animated series became the co-mascots, as to a point did Pecos Bill from the old 1948 cartoon[6].

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Since we had so much room to grow, a second Sesame Place was built, in part because of the many families in the San Antonio area, and in part since the bilingual nature of Sesame Street played well in heavily ethnically Tejano San Antonio. We also included large outdoor and indoor concert venues at the request of our USAA sponsors and partners, with all the folks with the Austin Blues scene becoming frequent guests. Stevie Ray Vaughn was an opening day lead act. Fiesta Stadium became a go-to place for popular music and ended up getting expanded in the late 2000s. In fact, with 200 acres to work with the San Antonio site would, like the Denver site, allow for expansion beyond the core Disneytown. Eventually roller coasters, a Ferris wheel, a drop tower, and other rides would be added. Since San Antonio is a major military town, we made deals with MWR, which was easy with USAA as our partner. And we have sold almost as many Military Mickey plushies as we have Cowboy Goofy or Seniorita Minnie and the like.

And Sea World turned out not to be major competition for us, as they are centered around marine animal shows while Disneytown was a more traditional theme park, two notably different experiences. We eventually partnered with them for limited cross-promotions and ticket packages. “See Mickey today, Sea World tomorrow!” Six Flags over Texas up near Dallas, meanwhile, accelerated their plans to expand their park into a Warner Movie World, hoping to pull or retain visitors from us, but San Antonio was far enough away from Dallas-Fort Worth that we all coexisted well enough.

Well, suffice it to say that the two new Disneytowns performed well, meeting expectations without seeing a corresponding drop in big park attendance in the summer of 1992, leading us to conclude that the recession was the primary driving factor in the diminished big park attendance rather than the existence of the Disneytowns. In fact, over time the Disneytowns proved to be a fair bit of recession-proofing, taking up some of the slack when high fuel prices or economic downturn ate in to big park attendance. There’s also a demographic difference: lower-income people flock to the Disneytowns while the wealthier go primarily to the big parks. Jim was upset by this, and we implemented special discount ticket lotteries for the poor, but as I explained it, at least the poor can experience the Disney Magic too.

Not all of the Disneytowns performed well, as you likely well know, and some instances were heartbreaking. But Denver and San Antonio marked the successful proof of their potential and set in place the growth to come.



[1] Technically foothill views, being that close to the front range, but the drive in is spectacular.

[2] More on this in…The Future!!! And space helmet tip to @Denliner for these ideas, and to him and @El Pip on the assist for Disneytowns in general.

[3] If you understand why Mickey Mouse is selling so well to the military guests, then hello, my fellow US veteran! For everyone else, please ask a veteran to explain it to you.

[4] In our timeline they partnered with Gaylord/Ryman, the creators of Opryland USA in Nashville, leading to Fiesta Texas, which was ultimately acquired by Six Flags.

[5] At some point (naturally) a petition from a group of civil rights activists will demand the removal of Panchito, citing him as an example of ethnic stereotyping, only to see the local Tejano population come out in droves to save Panchito, who (like Speedy Gonzales) had become a Mexican American hero.

[6]
 
I can only wait until Air Force members start doing god knows what at Disneytown.
[5] At some point (naturally) a petition from a group of civil rights activists will demand the removal of Panchito, citing him as an example of ethnic stereotyping, only to see the local Tejano population come out in droves to save Panchito, who (like Speedy Gonzales) had become a Mexican American hero.
I can only presume they were majority white.
Though I presume over time, as the Colonialist hate crimes spread by Crocket and many Texas Rangers come to light (sorry texans, but their ain't nothing heroic about genocide of indigenous culture!), they will be removed instead.

Also, now I have the idea of any Texan-produced Disney works featuring these musicians at its venue.
 
I can only wait until Air Force members start doing god knows what at Disneytown.
My late uncle remembered a tale where USAF cadets got a trainer jet in a spot on campus by pushing it. The Brass were more impressed than mad.


The other story he told was his hatred of Lucile Ball. She had an episode of a show there and they had to be at attention between shots.
 
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