I think the OP might be a bit over it all. Wouldn’t blame him. Next we’ll be talking about post-war space programs and reality TV shows in this timeline.
Phillips certainly did screw up, but remember that everyone in WW2 naval command was an armchair admiral who hadn't seen action since WW1. None of the great powers had been engaged in naval conflict since 1918.IIRC Phillips didn't break radio silence even after he knew he had been spotted and not until after PoW took the crippling hit, even then only calling for tugs! Middleton worked out that if he had called for air cover once sighted it would have arrived after the bomb hit on Repulse but before the first torpedo attack. That's what happens when you send an armchair admiral who hasn't seen action since WW1 to face modern aircraft.
It was the 'Landing at Kuantan' message received at midnight on the 9/10 Dec that doomed Force ZPhillips certainly did screw up, but remember that everyone in WW2 naval command was an armchair admiral who hadn't seen action since WW1. None of the great powers had been engaged in naval conflict since 1918.
A small number of fighters from either a carrier or the RAF over head likely also saves the fleet as the IJN air groups cannot form up and attack as they please with fighters, even bad fighters making attacks on them.Depending on how Greece goes, HMS Formidable might be available for service in the far east, along with HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales, which would dramatically change the equation.
That's sort of what I was referring to.A small number of fighters from either a carrier or the RAF over head likely also saves the fleet as the IJN air groups cannot form up and attack as they please with fighters, even bad fighters making attacks on them.
Wondering when the next update is...
With air reconnaissance to disprove the report of a Japanese landing at Kuantan, Phillips would have been back on course for Singapore. So might not have been detected or within reach of the Japanese aircraft.Depending on how Greece goes, HMS Formidable might be available for service in the far east, along with HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales, which would dramatically change the equation.
I hope he is wellI know I check the thread daily too.... :-(
A few pages back Allan had mentioned he was feeling under the weather after getting his vaccination, so it may have just knocked him on his fanny.
The Olympus line given its terrain is pretty defensible if held by any significant force. The likely lines of advance can be roughly seen in the map below. Tempi valley to the east is pretty much impassable. Which means either Servia to Sarantaporo and then Elasson or Petra pass to Elasson. Servia to Sarantaporo was the main road in the era and goes again over very bad terrain.While we wait and hope, perhaps we can move from discussion of the East Asian butterflies to discussions about the more current Greek Campaign. It is not a part of WW2 I have studied intensely but I have been looking into it since it looks like it will be covered in this TL.
The first likely butterfly I can see flapping is the deployment to the Monastir gap. A well balanced and prepared force in the Klidi pass area could cause the Germans some trouble. The more of a bloody nose that the Germans get moving south, the longer it takes and the more of the BEF that falls back in good order, the better.
Once the Germans are through the pass, an alternate Battle of Vevi could see 9th Panzer mauled rather than the British. This could allow the BEF to hold that position longer than OTL, delaying the eventual likely encirclement and surrender of Greek forces on the Albanian border. It also allows the Olympus line, if it is used ITTL, more time to be established. Then the Germans can be bloodied again at Servia pass.
That would be the best option for Greece. And arguably Yugoslavia if they handle it right. But I don't think the TL established so far has any real provision for affecting Yugoslav politics. So the Coup probably remains. And IIUC Papagos replaced almost the entire leadership of the Greek forces in Albania rather than pull back before the German attack. I am not totally sure he would pull back even if it is obvious that the Yugoslavs are against them.1. How do you convince Papagos to pull back in time. The obvious way is not to have the Yugoslav coup...
You know the condition of the Greek Army at the time much better than I do. But the limited amount I have read has caused me to basically assume the loss of the bulk of the Greek Army. Even with the collapse IOTL the order to withdraw was only given on 12 April, and it seems the consensus at that point was that it was too late. The Army was exhausted and demoralized and apparently some units had started to disintegrate by 16 April. I am not sure the British holding near Klidi would stop all that.2. Assuming everything else stays unchanged can the German advance be delayed long enough for the Greek army in Albania to pull back, particularly the West Macedonia Army detachment, with its 5 veteran divisions which is also the closest to taking up positions on the Olympus line. If you can delay the German advance through the Monastir gap to about April 20...
I think they are A13 but the sentiment appliesMy opinion of what a better and larger British Tank Brigade would do in TTLs Greek Campaign is equally suffer near 100% losses and not somehow turn around the battle but in the process put up a better show by retaining better reliability and therefore more tanks being available for any rear-guard actions allowing more Commonwealth and Greek troops and possibly equipment to ultimately be evacuated and by extension making the process more 'expensive' and drawn out for the Axis forces involved.
I consider the loss of 150 Valiant tanks well worth the cost if the above is the outcome given that they can be replaced far more easily than their crews and the 1000s of extra Commonwealth and Greek troops saved ITTL over OTL as a result.
Oh fair enough - so we have a slightly better A13 and 50% more of them (3 Regiments? or Battalions for those of you who are Hard of British Commonwealth) ?I think they are A13 but the sentiment applies